Urged his russian counterpart to let grain shipments, safety leave ukrainian ports under a dale find last week and was the 1st time anthony ben can answer. Collaborative had spoken since the russian invasion. We said along that if we thought there was any opportunity to advance our diplomacy to and russias aggression against ukraine, we will of course, take it unfortunately, tragically, weve seen no opening, willingness on the part of russia to engage meaningfully on any aggression. At the same time, ive also said that if there are issues where could make a difference in senior russians here and directly from me or from colleagues, we would have horsham shoe that while, meanwhile ships in ukraines black seaports are loaded with grain and ready to set sail, but a signal is needed from turkey and the United Nations before they can leave. The goal is to export 20000000 tons of grain over the next 4 months. In the meantime, ukraine in russia have also accused each other of attacking a prison and the separatist held dumbass region and killing at least 40 prisoners of war. Most of them were from the as of battalion, which defended the city of mary uphold. Before it fell to russia. A judge in the u. S. Has ruled that civil lawsuits brought against libyan warlord cliff. A hafta can be had in federal courts. Hafta who is the us citizen is accused of war crimes and extra judicial killings. He has been fighting to take over the country and has ive been to run and libyas long delayed president ial elections. Manaus military has been accused of using fighter planes to fire, unguided, weapons and civilian areas. Independent investigators say the gender has increased air attacks targeting armed groups opposed to last years crew. The un mission to afghanistan has condemned a grenade attack at a cricket match and cobble that wounded 13 spectators. The explosion happened during a domestic li game of the capitals International Cricket stadium. Theres been no claim of responsibility. While those are the headlines, ill have more for you here after inside story. Do stay with us. Ah, the threat of nuclear war is greater than ever . Thats the warning. In britains top security advise that you blamed the breakdown of communication between the west, russia and china, to whats needed to restore global security. This isnt had sort ah, [000 00 00;00] with hello walk into the program on the wrong car. The west could accidentally stumble into a nuclear war with russia or china. Thats the warning from Britains National security advisor. Steven lovegrove, who says Communication Channels between the west and its rivals of collapsed russias invasion of ukraine. He says, is the clearest example of this breakdown. Diplomacy fell to prevent the war moscow and keep havent held face to face, talked since march, lovegrove says the conflict is just the beginning of a broader contest for a successor to the post Cold War International order. Hes warning of new Security Risk as countries develop more advanced weapons and compete in both outer space and cyberspace. The solutions that a dialogue between the west, russia and china. During the cold war, we benefited from a series of negotiations and dialogues that improved our understanding of soviet doctrine and capabilities and vice versa. This gave both of us a higher level of confidence that we would not miss calculate our way into nuclear war. Today we do not have the same foundations with others who may threaten us in the future, and particularly with china. Here the u. K strongly supports president a bidens proposed talks, as with china as an important step. Trust and transparency built through dialogue. Should also mean that we can be more active in calling out noncompliance and misbehavior. When we see it. Ah, lets bring it, i guess in london, a sale a show, a Nuclear Non Proliferation and discernment analyst in santander, spain. Harrys party, a c, e o of the consults. He rasmussen global and in to lose france. Alexander t. Top a lecture in modern european history at Queens University belfast. A warm welcome to each of you. Want to begin in london where the ursa hilcher. There is a very famous film Doctor Strange law, which is almost a parody, but also a warning about the, about the way 2 countries can get into an Accidental Nuclear war. It was designed as a parody, but a lot of what was in that film. A lot of the central tenant of Foreign Policy is that there are back channels of those back channels will always save us. But now we have Stephen LovegroveNational Security advisor to the u. K, saying those by channels dont exist. Is he right . Well, you know, its no secret to you or your audience and run that. Were in a major, russia west crisis, and that includes the ongoing conflict in ukraine, but its actually much wider than that. And i think we all have to ask ourselves, what kind of russia west crisis do we want . Do we want a deep cold war, or do we want, how it was during the latter part of that period where we actually communicated with the adversary and we worked together to try to muddle through just by our different worldviews at the moment. It is true, the lack of dialogue between the us and russia, and nato and russia is putting us in a very precarious position because its not just the back channel forms of communication that are necessary. We also need a very, very resilient and smart front end channel communication. So for example, between president s biden and put in and if we are to stumble into some sort of a nuclear conflict, im currently not competent, for example, that the hotline that exists between washington and moscow would be able to technically stand up to the challenges that would happen in a degraded environment in the middle of a nuclear war, for example. So steven love growth is comments c, s i s, and you see yesterday were very important and its a very, very important reminder that we need to make sure that we have the ability to communicate clearly and smartly to the adversary because thats how we got out of the cold war, and thats how well also get out of this current. Russia was crisis. Let me bring in february puts you here for braces and not just about russia. China is also a very big concern for not just even love growth, but a communications with china generally. But were in a position now where perhaps we dont need that kind of communication, that big red telephone, this drones the satellites. Nowadays, weve got different types of tech. You have monitoring, going on, you have other channels. Those traditional methods of thinking about takes it. Not really, but i see what is not up to date is the way we speak, including about Nuclear Deterrence. So i think as i did disagree with the previous speaker, its not the the lack of title because it actually is not for the like of having try to engage, especially with letting me put in. I mean, president , my call nato. It says the u. S. And hes trish and all try to reach out to the russian president is the lack of interest on the side to a true for me and meaning for me engage with the west and try to minimize the risk of of hopefully them in cedar and every fall and ill tell you what we have to focus on on our side, is really what channel language we want to speak and, and how nuclear for supper. The fact that lend me pretty used at the nuclear agitated nuclear flag they early on ease warf aggression against you. Cray, that didnt really get a response for the western Nuclear Powers. Was actually a confirmation that the west has lost the beat of the Nuclear Deterrence grammar. And really 1st to reload the grammar before engaging in a meaningful dido. I let me bring in, alexander, he tells her it makes a fabrics makes a very interesting point about learning grammar and, and language and history. The 62 cuban missile crisis. Everybody knows that the, the russians put missiles into cuba, which freaked out america was night miles away from dear spain, on what everybody forgets is actually the only reason those missiles were in cuba is because the americans put missiles and turkey, which was in russias backyard effectively theres always been a disconnect between when it comes to the language and the framing of all of this when it comes to russia, when it comes to china, that theyre always the bad guys. Is that been unhelpful . Well, i think got beyond good or bad guys. Thats not, you know, relevant anymore horse. Russia is better, chinese, bad, so far as the west is concerned. You know, theres nothing to discuss at the moment. You know, those cases are concerned actually just go back to the initial 60 to nissan prizes. You know, thats when the red lines were put when the direct phone was put between washington multiple to prevent anything like this happening again. And thats really what created the coldwater Security Architecture of mutual deterrents and so forth. Was this very of dangerous drivers which act lead later led to agreements in the early seventys about limitations on arms and so forth. So im afraid we would, we, having now i ease this. Another crisis are very similar to that, that one where the red line so blurred, those are, there is some communication behind the lines. The, a Russian Military speaking to the route lies with American Military and so forth. But at the same time will read lots of it, look, having a very radio bill. Gov all off. I need addresses to see grain the range of misses and so forth, which it previously if even for my 3 months ago, that would be a thinkable. So an russians havent really responded this, so were gonna washington was this line where we were to know when the russians were actually say that enough is enough of, than mike and of escalated for their own, their own. So thats, thats what, what is the injured the moment is not so much like a communications, but this blurred lines which are very remiss, the nuisance of the not to 6 to ah, when the last at the music i was ever so i think i agree with. Ready with us, because that, you know, there are actually very, very interested, lenient. Okay, so thats russia, thats china, thats a, you know, and thats the u. S. And thats the west, and there is a big red telephone and we just need to probably use it a bit more than we are using it. But there isnt a big red telephone to north korea, to pakistan, to india, to israel. And those guys have Nuclear Weapons and neither of them of signed the non liver ration tree sale. You know what, what is the, what is the danger of those states . Theyre small estates with Nuclear Weapons . Sure. Let me make 2 quick points just to respond to my follow panelists. The 1st is, i totally agree with the brief. I think the main comment that i was trying to make is that we need resilient crisis Communication Channels. So that if this conflict in ukraine spirals into a wider, for example, nato russia conflict that we have the ability for our leaders, whether on the Nuclear Brink or already past the nuclear brain, to avert complete calamity. And my 2nd point is that a part of deterrence is, of course, being able to communicate effectively to your adversary. And if you dont have any Communication Channels open and youre simply relying on rhetorical posturing in public and in the media, thats a really dangerous place to be. And because it offers very little private off ram to be able to de escalate the situation. And when it comes to your comment just now about there already being a red telephone and, but we dont have them with the other states. This is why im nervous. Its because that bilateral channel, between washington and moscow, there isnt one between washington and beijing as the leader level in the same thats created in the same way. And there also are very limited military to military channels between these 3 great powers. Moreover, there is no way for any of the leaders of any of these countries, these 3 countries, and also the wider 9 countries in the world with Nuclear Weapons to be able to communicate multilaterally. So there is no way right now for the President Biden, president putin, president , she to get all on the phone at once, especially in a degraded environment in the middle of say, a nuclear conflict. And we need Something Like that in terms of the Smaller Nuclear power, there are rising emerging Nuclear Powers. Of course, its very dangerous and they all affect the interNational Security environment in different ways. Right now in north korea is expanding its nuclear arsenal. Iran its becoming closer and closer. Ready through a threshold state because the lack of agreement between the last in iran on restoring the 2015 nuclear deal. These are all very worrying developments. And in addition to the ongoing war in ukraine, theyre going to factor in very heavily on over the course of the next month as the international community. A convenes in new york to discuss that 52 year old Nuclear Nonproliferation treaty the and p t, which is really that Cornerstone International treaty that governs the world in terms of setting standards and only creating the pathways to global disarmament and keeping a cap on proliferation at the same time, up for british the n p t, the Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty has failed in many ways because india has Nuclear Weapons pakistan has them. Israel has them, no korea has them. But theres no real communication between india and pakistan right now. And that is probably the closest flash point that we have for breast. Do you think that needs to be a stronger and p t or at least or, or doesnt need to be more up Better Police rather. And those countries need to sign up. We need to push them to sign up frankly f e, the success of the n p t, that the failure has been contained to a handful of countries and, and nf, this is the key here to this discussion today is a lot of non Nuclear Countries are watching though to war and ukraine and to see how and whether the west will be sufficiently support the ukraine to the extent where the ukrainians can prevail, somehow in the battlefield and in the negotiations. And if we were to fail to do so, i figured lot of countries who currently are not a Nuclear Weapon. Countries will consider what is considered the ultimate guarantee, and which is Nuclear Weapons. So i think what we do here and in ukraine in fundamentally what is a conventional conflict, could have some very important repercussions, but about how the and p t is holding or not. So thats my answer a to kind of connect the n p t to the job political reality of today until is alexander as hes off. Would you agree with that . Well i think and via the point about that, i think Everybody Knows that the ultimate guarantee is Nuclear Weapons. If you look at the bill will happen to kathy will hear and if agree to give up is up and simultaneous later he ended up in addition. So what, you know, the south korea, north korea knows where a well and russia is also is so bold to your brain because it knows that natal certainly not estates are not prepared to risk nuclear war. Will ukraine . So we are leaving and age when Nuclear Weapons are essentially the ultimate guarantee, which gives you superpower status. And the question of how to prevent it from spreading. Busy further in is an important one, but you know, much directory thats a big state such as seems you focused on israel and the system to be around as well if they can wire it because because basically its called whats unfortunately. Ready Nuclear Weapons, as weve seen, you bring, gives you extra steam advantage in those of putting pressure. And this was the key point of the regional wallace if were going to be there early point is that the Nuclear Weapons largely kind of regional threat. Whereas in are awesome, threat is a global threat. Cancel the 55. 00 nuclear, both Nuclear Power actually bridges to the truck anywhere else in the world. Which not said that the case with alice but was working. But yeah, thats the ultimate, were already living in the world well to its going to security. And theres no didnt begging for it. The ultimate guarantee of security then is Nuclear Weapons. Well seem to be agreed on that. It seems to be a doctrine. Certainly, you mentioned iran that i want to talk about iran. Iran is got very close to being a threshold state as has been described. It hasnt said it has a Nuclear Weapons program has admitted having a Nuclear Program. Ah, the j c p away or the Iran Nuclear Deal effectively froze all those tensions and brought iran back into the world. But then that treaty was ripped up by prison. Donald trump and the u. S. Is finding it incredibly difficult to renegotiate that treaty sale. Ah, this is a failure again of the west of america, because certainly, no one trusts the america will stick to it. Still, thats the iranian way of thinking right now. Why should we trust the u. S. If they just going to rip up a deal, so why not get Nuclear Weapons . Well, there is a growing chorus of voices in terror on that. Feel that the only way for them to have the right leverage to be able to negotiate a sustained deal that they can trust with washington and with other world powers is to increase their status from having a very rich Nuclear Program to one of that of a Nuclear Threshold state, or perhaps even getting a Nuclear Weapon. Unfortunately, i would be extremely risky for the entire global Security Architecture because it would probably incite some sort of a military conflict in the region, particularly with israel. So we really do need to get washington and toronto agree to the roadmap that was already largely decided in march of this year. But that both sides are dragging their feet on. Washington has to make up for the fact that it was indeed the u. S. Abrogation of the deal under President Trump that caused this trust deficit in the 1st place. Iran continued to comply with the deal for an entire year before we gradually reducing its implementation. Of course, we also now had President Biden come into office and dragging his feet for a number of months. And then now as were getting closer and closer to the us mid term elections, it seems that there isnt a political will power in the white house to get the jcp restoration over the finish line. And i really call a President Biden, who in october, before he came into the white house ro, a very compelling cnn off. At that said, theres a smarter way to be tough on iran, which really made clear argument for why its so important to get the g p a back in place. So that we are in a position to be able to think more about the other issues that we have within iran, with iran, for example, its expanding Ballistic Missile running time. And i want to bring, you know, of the guests as well. Brief. Youve heard what sale has been talking about that we do need to bring iran back to negotiating table. America does seem to be dragging its feet. But what is the incentive for the west to try and force the americans back to negotiate table . Is there any . Is there any pressure anybody can put on the when i see a sent tv so saw upon the americans to avoid as the previous speaker said regional coffee and possibly original stroke, nuclear conflict. And you have to read the recent us israel and john declaration which is actually vague clearly, or where the u. S. Is giving to the sake of israel, clear guarantees that it will not allow a nuclei iran for huffman. And i think thats a feed appear signal to day that the u. S. Is coming to not to have a Nuclear Weapon or state in the region about 4 of his hes ramp and this is not mentioned in the jointly corrosion. So i think this clarity here whether the young mistress has be dragging his feet that we not command, but if he clearly it has its interest in finding a diplomatic solution. And if in the you is a saw a trying to do so, a for alexander, sorry, or to loose the, you are these traditional negotiating bodies, nato example, those, these things, these institutions were formulated, post cold war to try and freeze detentions that, to some extent. They have worked, but were looking at a different landscape now. Whether isnt actually a cold war any more . Are we moving towards the cold war again . She think well, i think, you know, youve come stuff in the same river twice. So were going to want to be something very different and of course the cold war was defined in fishes wanted to follow us. And there was also very intense ideological stand up between them in capitalism, against communism and so forth. So i think thats like to be repeated 1st of all, that would be much more central suppose in the world of china, russia, europe, and the American Protection was being d, ron, of course, and other others. So its not going to be going to be just a lot, so be more more dispersed structures and politics and logically again, you know, theres Something Different in terms of nationalism and or re follow. Rather, i would say kind of going back to pre war scenario when you have several, almost going to trying to reach other. But you know, you could, Nuclear Weapons of course is the, is the key. And i would say that, you know, if the americans come to iran now and. Ready really desperate need more oil on the market and the iran is the only and this place where with extra oil will come when there are no, it was burns, you can do it now. I dont see how were going to do it again. You run, it will eventually it was patients with very, very great both of these read it also. So the residence or very, very dangerous enough and. Busy to make a declaration with israel that they will not allow, but holding a good allow the going to go to war with israel with, with the wrong. Its really plausible in terms of americans, by experience in iraq and so forth. Iraq as much, sorry we, we all running out. We are running out time to do when it comes. Everybody else. There is another way of dealing with this and the americans that have actually done this to great effect in pakistan by supporting pakistan by giving it money by supporting its military. Its great, a whole bunch of other problems, a bog. Somebodys kept the Nuclear Weapons in their silos or in spain. Fabrice, do you think thats a, a good strategy . And the so give her breakfast and strike recall the pro formation of some Nuclear Technology to other countries including north korea. So i will, i think pakistan was more a policy affair complete where the u. S. And no other choice, but just to, to basically embrace a Pakistan Nuclear status and try to contain the issue and make sure that the rifle to cause way in place to avoid a miscalculation and reason that complete again a visit the india. So i dont see days that theres a clear model here to follow. I think we have to, to, to, to think it in itself. But, but i do think that iran has as much interest as to where to find a diplomatic solution in like the british speaker say, they feel so obviously an energy or supply dimension to it. And, and, but the me terms, obviously not going to help with the republicans fiercely against what is her the about by doing this for, shes trying to go to the primitive from iran, just very quickly. Sir hale in london where stumbling in the dark of robbery says the actually we need a new strategy, but we dont know what that strategy is. Is there anything that you think a leads us out this darkness . Is there a new strategy . Absolutely. Dialogue on risks reduction and making sure that we deal with the fact that we have Nuclear Weapons. If you want to have Nuclear Weapons or you have, then you have to live with the responsibility and the consequences of them and explain to others how you will deal with the related challenges, right . So its extremely important that all of the leaders of these Key Countries am come together and are able to make sure that theyre correct. Scaffolding is in place so that we mitigate crises and that we mitigate conflict and war. So i think that the most important thing to do is to really have a deep reflection on how deterrence in arms control. Not only have always complimented one another, but that they always had to compliment one another to get us through really difficult periods, like the cold war. We dont want to get into another deep cold war with russia. We want to try to mitigate the risks and learn from the past mistakes that weve made so that we can insure the safety and survivability of the entire world. And you know, thats what it is at stake is really global peace and security because Nuclear Weapons had the ability to annihilate the entire existence of this planet. I want to thank all our guests, so hell show up every spotty and alexander. He took no one to thank you as well for watching. You can see the program again any time by visiting our website out there a dot com and for further discussion, go to a facebook page. Thats facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. And you can also join the conversation on twitter. We are at 8 and so sorry for me, im wrong on the whole team here. Like know . Ah, ah. August oh to 0. Kenya, braces for a title contested votes as the country goes to the poles and the elections that will shape the future. The listening post examines and dissects the world media. How they operate to the stories they cover up to 5 years on since mia mars Muslim Minority were forced from the country. We look at the plight of the rocking out. 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Ah hello there, im the associate a and her with the headlines here on al jazeera, the u. S. Secretary of state has urged his russian counterpart to let grange shipments safely, leave ukrainian ports under