Where some host nations say theyve lost confidence in their mission. Democratic republic of congo is among those calling for their withdrawal of who have already sent them. Packing. Critics, a peacekeeping needs reform, all other say it does important work. Despite its shortcomings. Well get the thoughts of our guest in a moment. But 1st, this report from phantom on un peacekeepers have been deployed to democratic republic of congo for around a quarter of a century. A large part of their mandate is to protect civilians from armed groups. But now the comedies present says theyve failed in their mission. And wants them gone. You looked at the approving it is to be deployed. Thats a peacekeeping mission is deployed for 25 years. And the democratic republic of congo have failed to cope with the rebellions and Armed Conflicts which are tearing apart the region, need north to protect the civilian population. They knew many civilians in d r c. Feel the same way earlier this month, protest was demanded. The peacekeepers go take use. Do you end up doing little to protect asked them to come to these army, cleared the demonstrations 43 people were killed un peacekeepers and also worn out their welcome. Elsewhere they left to don dark. The region in 2021 at the urging of the government ad molly has become one of the latest countries to demand. They pull out the u. N. Has admitted shortcomings, but says without peacekeepers, things will be much worse. Growing divisions among Member States combined with the increased complexity of todays conflicts poses a formidable challenge to peacekeeping and the pro, the task of maintaining the fees and security. I encourage you to consider the alternative and to let me to imagine how these situations with evolve is peacekeepers were not present to undertake these certainly efforts. In many places, mercenaries are filling the void, including those russians. Wagner group and as criticism of Un Peacekeeping gross critics, a reforms are needed in order to overcome this crisis of confidence. Been monitoring for inside story. The. All right, lets go and bring in our guests in new york was a condo executive director at the sad institute and a former special advisor to the president of molly and london, tara oconnor founder and executive director at africa. Risk consulting ad in geneva will cache a copy of the a former you in resident entry, monetary and coordinator for suzanne. A warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story location. Let me start with you today. So the r c is set to begin discussions with you and authorities for an accelerated withdrawal of un peacekeepers from december 2024, to december 2023. I want to get your impressions as far as if you think that as a realistic timeline, why not . Its good to. Yeah. So i think the can do it. I dont, i dont think its going to make much difference to the situation on the ground. Theres the right to leave someones a certain. Okay, so let me also ask you uh, you know, Un Peacekeeping missions and after are coming under a lot of criticism, you, of course, have experience as a un peacekeepers in sudan. Um, are you in peacekeeping missions actually working anymore . They used to work when the bought uh much more comprehensive the operations. Uh, which made the piece which took the key piece and was bitch the piece. But in recent, uh, decades, debit gone, fragmented. Theyre not being as well resource as been made to of course, really know much about quarter to a world where that keeps providing the peacekeepers on the nations funding them are low, behead so they are more and more effective. And i think that should be put out to them is the most um, un peacekeepers have also worn out their welcome. In other places they have left to the end star for region to 2020 at the urging of the government. Molly is now the latest country to them and they pull out. I want to ask you, what do you think will happen in molly . Once peacekeepers pull out. Oh, thank you so much. Uh, since they decisions a window they, the mission is from molly. Uh, were still having a lot of things going on. So as we mentioned it, we have different realities according to the countries and it gives you according to conflicts. Also the case of molly, the un mission was, will compile the they, they, the areas where the different and us get fathers, the former rebill groups now to send it to the, of the Peace Agreement in the governmental model. So now combined is by right after the minis, my history, a little bit of problems in the field, then reality and see what municipal was bringing for the piece. Is that the, the in the country most . Uh, let me also ask you from your vantage point, what exactly is the alternative here . If peacekeepers continue to pull out, is that going to pay the way potentially for private armies just to take over more and more. I mean, who, who fills the void in this instance . So now before you read the dimension, uh, withdrawing from molly, the government managed to migrate and transition and no authority to star recruiting a lot of my god, a military person. Those if you have seen in the past couple of miles, but the problem itself is the question of the presence of the un keeping missions in model. Because when we finish at the beginning with the monday of 42100. 00 events. Uh it started changing and the objective also start changing. And finally the just relies. Its not necessary to have 16000 people in the ground and not even starting what people expect from this mission. So feeling the got by them, so by the transition and megan hobby is the one point to also the different partners. As they said, uh, even some save button or groups and might even say the rest, an esl chose is kind of feeling youve got these empty spaces, letting bite emissions there. I want to speak more specifically about the issue of un peacekeepers and the d. R. C. The presence of u. N. N d r c. It has become increasingly unpopular in recent years. Critics say thats due to a failure of you in peacekeepers to protect civilians from violence. Now, earlier this month, protests are demanded. The peacekeepers go, theyve accused that you end up doing little to protect in the congo these army cleared demonstrations. Dozens of people were killed. What is the current level of anger about the presence of you and peacekeepers . And d r c. And how exactly did we get to this point . Well, i think it does take the levels to bind girl pretty high and you know, which is that she led to this cool for rapids withdrawal. I think what you have to look at where we got to and, and how this came about. And i mean, if we look at the origins of the mission to come go, it was at a very particular time when the country was actually imploding. And there was a significant risk that it would split apart. But definitely over the years that the u. N. Has been the its in its ability to actually deal and to improve the security for civilians has been severely and pat. Its also, you know, the terrain is impossible. The region is largely pretty much from a Military Point to view lots, the ungovernable because of its boss size because of the, the post city of infrastructure. And also because of the, i think the results are lack of willingness amongst the lack of commitment and to really deal with the massive problems that the eastern eastern congo faces. I mean, you know, without actually ever having, you know what, you know when you havent been there, as i, as i have, it is extraordinary to think about the size of the area the, the, the un forces meant to govern. Its impossible. Yeah. Its a i want to follow up with you and ask you about the fact that the u. N. A has admitted to shortcomings, but theyve also said that without peacekeepers in these areas, things would be much worse from your vantage point. What did you say to them . I think thats supposed to be true, but that they all going to be replaced as far as i understand it by a Regional Force of military from the regions. And im, i do think they will necessarily fire any better. And the real risk is that you will get much more profiteering as we sold before the u. N. Force came in because you were talking also about an area that has a numerous mineral wealth, but many, many countries, many region know players and many countries have a great deal of interest in that goes uh, cable and further south in d. C. Cop. Uh, and so no one has to guard against that. But i do think this is also comes into a context, a political context to jeer political context that we have to take into account to. And that is where African Leadership is seeking African Solutions for african problems. And so the, you know, the, you and the departure for molly from congo and replacement with local forces or Regional Forces. Seems to me to be the next step. Most there are uh, analysts and expert who have blamed the lack of success of peacekeeping forces in africa on the operational mandates of the missions in africa. And theyve said that those mandates restrict the forces activities. What do you say to that . So this is actually a really Great Depression and obviously, but it understand the end in the queue around the un mission as well as like we just mentioned about what happening in the, in the code from your question. The same thing happened into molly, back to the days where Mission Personnel were involved in the lot of candles, including sexual scandals and also the context reality of 5. So that maybe people in pollution wondering a lot of patients why these guys are here. Even they are not really didnt you . I didnt find them through conflict and also to see the fire and you have seen in the case of molly demanded when really not just the whole. And even the definition of why this 15000 people more than that because 15200 something. What in mind didnt even not eligible to be whatever wed expect from them in terms of uh, what would be showing this stuff in addition of it is the turning of the national forces. But the past couple of miles before dimensional weight. 50 molly, do you envision it with a new face . The much more money and the resist is on the truck man. Area been keeping so we already know the u. N. A has already adjust the is focusing on this area. As also the government of molly in and local public to reach is, are working to do the same. So now the money going to this, to these areas, are they really going to the peacekeeping mission . So does that mean really very complex and very i dont have it wrong. Whats going on here . The other side about emission for like when you take such a part of the world, what dimensions be like a decade. And then one of the bridge reality in, in the conversation ended right. It just in this countrys location most uh, actually uh, in his answer brought up one of the points that i wanted to ask you about it. And thats about the fact that peacekeeping forces have also been accused in the past of committees. Human rights abuses, including pervasive allegations of sexual abuse and exploitation. There have been you in investigations into these allegations, but they, they rarely lead to prosecution. How much have scandals like that tainted these pieces, keeping missions, i think, scandals like that on the computer. Impunity that comes off to that. How does a so think brought to thank god name to such operations. You know, its not really the you in the come on sold because the, so it does come from many different countries. And there you go to those countries and the purchases off of accountability and just as take place in those countries. But very often the countries are a shame. What happens . They are kind of embarrassed, they protect their own kind on the board, one gets the blame for that. So i blame not the us, but i blame the, the big country so we should be skip this, come all come different to be to full says bill discipline and the people plain. Uh, bring my pictures like bob that which does up me blame. But do you know when the, when the soldiers, oh, well, no countries from me to these kinds of, if use is difficult to know, but that was worse than that. So it was a bit to goes to those countries as to why the, a lot of these us, what does it but is disciplined filled minus. So just to take part and be sensitive operations. Okay. If i could just follow up with you. Uh, but there is still a criticism by many that say that whether or not its local forces who may be committing those crimes. They do say, and they blamed that you in for not really doing enough to make sure that people are the people are actually being put on trial. Uh they say that theres very little accountability. What do you say to that . Certainly from my time in the, in the you, in system, in a number of different uh, positions. Then you in the past crime, then un has made representations to the country as well. Citizens can be described, you know, that you want. It doesnt have a quote sitting in new york, youll be able to do these kinds of things. It is true that sometimes when you, when the leadership are often the us, they just shipped, im still stuck, pretty general downwards, is to timorous in terms of the same 2 countries which are misbehaving as to that, that they should not to do that. And then then off site sions that can be deployed against those countries. Like sort of more more of peacekeepers from those countries that has actually happened. For example, the government is coming to no longer the blogs or certain units from certain countries will no longer be deployed. Then thats a very, very good thing. But this issue, a whole kind of the birth date is not just unique peacekeeping. It is thought of a general climate. Impunity that affects my name or the other areas in relation to present security. Im associated to it shows the standards in gusting from toppled around, but it wont affect demik where, where, where, what goes, what goes where it was . Where it would be processed in return for jobs in organizations so. So in that sense, many took a bigger view and then look at why they compliment it is like its easy to blame, but you, when s the central come on back onto the dont have the means and tools at the disposal to be uh, do a new stop at tara, it looked like you were reacting to quite a bit of what my cache was saying that i wanted to give you an opportunity to help sent yes, i mean, i think there is a question of it, of accountability. It goes back to the original financing. It goes back to financing of these operations, where to some extent youve got the global knowles as its becoming moon really funding label. Because most of the financing comes from very wealthy g 7 and g, g 7, countries to finance in poor countries of 4 countries treats to be up to leading these peacekeeping operations. Whereas, what you really want for peacekeeping operations is professionally trained peacekeeping operations that just do that. So i think the, the financing, the stuffing, the training and the operations oh, probably need to face were full. And i mean, this being Un Peacekeeping forces being off to leave is a crisis and confidence in the un. But you have got this know, the, you know, financing from the global troops from the, from the Imaging Market countries in the countries with a, a, that students have the tools, all the training and all the equipment, and certainly in east and congo. Do you know its a very of the, the infrastructure is just not the need. The ability to protect people requires all because much small aerial, uh, uh, came capacity and thats oversee enormously expensive and im very difficult to run it. So i think a lot of referral is required without throwing out the without throwing out the u. N. Peace keeping missions. I think they, they just need upgrade to the most. Uh, i wanna ship focus here a little bit to, to something that was brought up a little bit earlier in the show. You know, in many places are you in peace keepers have either left or are considering leaving mercenaries are filling the void. Were talking about everybody from Russias Wagner group to other groups as well. Uh, wagner has worked for government and militarys in Central African republic, libya. Molly sedan, um, fighting rebel groups there. Um, what is the outlook if this continues before that i want to like, uh about what my colleagues say about the accountability ended sensibility of disorders and how to take them out from the minutes my had i think literally disagree with this because this really the reasons im not, its very no emissions. They are supposed to be higher babbling missions to our country. For when the right we see the invasion of forces because of the mind that you have already invested more in your government. Expanding the government is not following the government expands and the government up for an hour. And 15000 people come to help the government and also create a system which we defend them to check. What because the penalties because there was no big deal of the signature of the agreement. So that means the government and the former rebuild the groups on bills, groups i dont know already in fight. So the ones who are fighting the government, ive got to do the groups and then even who does the fight . So the question is why the mission . The stage in the city is s as the same as it is the same area. What i fucking and pushing and pressuring the population, and it can not affect back and even the outside in the box. So this is what we should learn from in moving forward, different what this mission to go forward and about the integrity and honesty. This emissions also is not just about the countries providing much big city to our country is as you envision, which is a Global Organization to maintain and also protect civilians all around the world. As weve seen, divisions in other parts of the world. So they have kind of presented us, is that really t on the network as well . So just when they accept to send them and if its not about sending a family, i mean uh if you go a document is also about photos. And when i scan does happen, you should have your procedures and protocol to make Justice Blake justice as evidence in your situation. No. Otherwise theres itself cannot do some sort of process of procedures. It gains the by the person, the field. So how can you imagine if the, from definitive in molly or, you know, for the body to make just is for them. So they cannot because its got the whole, the presenter, the slow and its happening in new york city. So just all the things you run up to be very careful when defending, but selecting people just been in a few minutes. The money that you sent me to or to engage with either by any means fortuitous groups in the field most. Uh, im sorry to interrupt you, let me stop you there. Ill get back to you with my original question in a minute, but i do see more cash reacting to what youre saying. So im going to give you a chance to jump in to talk just inside. Its great in an ideal world. But uh, we have to understand that the peacekeepers have diplomatic immunity, yukon. Just follow the impulse, the crime scene where theyve committed this activities or whatever. And bring them to me all that and put them up one that is not cool that there is no present. There is no process. So, you know, we must not let the countries get away with this. The past is that many developing countries use the contributions of these keep us as a way of earning revenue. And because the government for every soldier this set to send up. And so what . Yeah, subsidizing the forces back home of the peacekeepers. Austin, because the a part Getting Space for which that comes sometimes very often the find as much as to say, but it says what does the somewhere else rather than a 100 printing uh pools and may have. So i dont think that to this is entirely a matter of books, but you wouldnt be having the in a responsible man. Its a, its a combination of the 2. Maybe we need good meeting tonight, so call me need other to be sure the process has been building this morning in terms of just disappointing these people. And thats why i think code, quite honestly. But now were moving into regional peacekeeping more and more because nobody wants to be a variety of this conflict. So mm hm. Okay. Montgomery, so im sorry, im sorry to interrupt you as well, but, but we dont have a lot of time left. I do want to get back to mussa tara, i see that you want to jump in as well. Ill get to you in just a minute. Most of i do so want to ask you, i want to ask you just a few moments ago, which is, what will the implications be if we start seeing more of these mercenary groups, these private armies going into these countries . So, so 1st of all, people are looking for solutions and it would be probably the army is, are it would be viruses do for the 1st group. Our country is like literally because each end to is 24. 00. And why have, why you bring the higher missing the rates as you said. And you mentioned in 20 different places, but now when divisions, the Un International condition failed, people and countries have to look for a to lucky because we cannot just see and look at people dying. But the problem with this problem, it is also the door to report to anybody. So when it happens to your mind abuse suggestions me to get a report of the videos of the report to no one. So this is a very dangerous situation, and they also just problem it all means are missing this week. Time again, the person will be implying that this is not a for me, the, because this is a small business. This is not about you memorizing the about humanity. This is not about this is how to present money related corporations. So they would not be there would be that they would not be in the same page. Maybe they can, you just suggest on. So the implication of russia in this is this, uh, this is because the minutes of the holding up for a laptop in silver stay there is uh a fuck new google. Great. And you just fill in the uh, dual credit from the government. The government. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and most, im sorry to cut you off again what we just have a couple of minutes left. I know tara wants to jump in and tear. I also want to ask you about a point that most it was raising there, which is that, you know, there has been a lot of debate as to what laws cover, private armies. And if private armies are mercenary groups can actually be held to account when and if their fighters commit crimes. I mean, this is a real growing concern, right . You know, they govern, they largely govern themselves and us, we have seen in, in, and we really have to look at a recent to not too distant in history. You look at sierra leon. If you look at the private military companies that go samples, that in my view, they actually excel rated, they increase the conflict because the main interest was to actually get paid us as was said earlier, to get paid either in diamonds or we have a whole lot diamonds debacle. So its definitely and we also see that the, the, the most res, where actually seeking how they were going to be paid, putting pressure on pressure on the various military contests that have now i matched in model end inputting a file. So that should be paid directly, either concessions or action goals. So its um, you know, the commercial elements, the lack of accountability and also the and effectiveness um we sold it to the wagner through it failed completely in capital. Got a, a cover in northern mozambique. And what was required was a regional, a single country intervention by route one, the minutes a single country intervention to restore order to cover the got it effect to boost. Yes sir, i do apologize. Uh we have run out of time. So were going to have to leave the conversation there. Thanks so much to all of our guests, most of condo to our oconnor, and well catch computers. And thank you to for watching. You can see the program again any time by visiting our website obviously, or dot com. And for further discussion, go to our Facebook Page at facebook dot com, forward slash ag inside story. You can also during the conversation on text or handle is at asia inside store for me and how much im gentleman holton. Bye for now. The in savannah is way like columbia bu address has become a stomping grounds for trespasses as desperate people transgress and illegals. Passage to feed an emerging fuel trafficking market. We followed the powerless journey on guarded through the line of fire, risk at all. And as wayland columbia on al jazeera, the ultra nations remarks connected with one of the worlds worst humanitarian crisis. We dont accept any getting my grand joining with the military to impose that deb political agend. Yep. To filter our nation. What is happening to the retention . Thats one of the biggest stains of the country as well as in not really. This is important to me in an unholy alliance on orders here. As soon as the sun go south, russia is a fairly challenging place to work from. As a journalist, even though the say you cant do it, its not allowed to, youre still pushing, theyre always pushing a boundaries for we are the ones traveling the extra mile where all the media dont go. We go there and we give them a chance to tell their story that we understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the world. So no matter why you call out to 0 will bring you the news and current affairs. The houses here the time on the richardson of the asian games in im jo, china, where the Opening Ceremony of the content is biggest, multi scrolls events just getting underway. The role madison in doha here watching. Ill just see the also coming up you funny and miss i was talking at the headquarters of brushes, black c freighting, try me out in a suze of recent attacks independence it i