Hello welcome to that program. My number on con, the kale take and rapid collapse of the soviet union. More than 30 years ago, left some result in complex political disputes. One between as the bodies have on and armenia over, then go to a car back region. Has seen thousands of People Killed or injured in conflict since those times. And off to a brief but bloody wall less than 3 years ago. Tensions escalating once again. So why is this happening now . And where might lead, and what role russia, the u. S. E u and 30 airplane in this dispute . Well discuss all of this with, i guess shortly. But 1st, this report from several current. The skirmishes that broke counts again between us or by john and armenia. Earlier this month, killing and injuring soldiers have escalated with both sides, accusing each other of a minute tree. Build up the border thats despite the commitment to a Peace Process and land drops nego, no car, buff, wholesale part fonts, comfortable with the military political situation. And our region has seriously deteriorated in the past week. And thats because everybodys gone. Has been amassing troops for several days along the contact line between the gardener, carl boston, and the armenian, either by johnny border. But as or by john, insist on media is the instigator, certain media steel does no demonstrate goodwill and fails to take a constructive position. Instead, the media side is playing a game of delay and confusion. Now going on, caught a ball, has a mountainous region with a 95 percent ethnic, all median population lives within as everybodys on start tree. Its recognize internationally as positive as ari by john, but its controlled by ethnic or median forces. The former soviet republics have full too, was the control of this region. 60 a conflict that ended with the c spot in 1994. Then again in 2020. When more than 5000 people were killed while the russian probably could see. So i ended that will and on media was forced to give out much of the land. It controls tensions have continued to similar. Media says, nicole know car about has been on the blockade since december accusing as our by john of cutting off. Its a 120000. 00 residents. As everybodys on says it does allow supplies in bots, maintains the enclaves only direct routes on menia. The latch and cargo has been used to smuggle weapons last week for us called the humanitarian situation that deeply concerning, with people unable to access food easily. Russia has called for aid to be allowed in. Would you somebody say congress of action within the framework of a try lateral agreements by the leaders of russia as a by sean and armenia in 2020 to 20 . 22. We stand for im handed access to humanitarian aid into the region. We call an old sites to refrain from unnecessarily politicizing this matter. Now, corner car box is the focal point of complex and shifting geo political alliances involving the us russia to get on the you. So Fall International efforts to find the last thing solution havent succeeded in resolving this decades long, complex a sort of hired on the inside story. The thats bringing out guess in back is if i read a selfie f chapman at the center of analysis of International Relations and a former as a by jani and invest it to canada and concluded massachusetts. I know honey and professor of International Relations at stern hill college and the old of the neighborhood effect. The imperial roots of regional fracture in your asia and invalid and spin are as found. And edison chief of b and e in telling use a Business Media company focusing on emerging market spends also the form of Moscow Bureau chief from the Daily Telegraph away. Busy welcome to you. Oh, id like to begin and vacuum with a freed. Now afraid, weve already seen the accusation in the counter accusation coming from as an advisor on an amelia. But there was at one point a piece process and it seemed to be working. Why has that seemingly broken down a couple of reasons seen this research was positive development. And finally, im you know, after so many years, um no, and you are meeting president , nicole bushy now well previously said that they cut off is our medium. Finally, to share knowledge that carl watkins part of the by john as its international, recognize and both countries worked on the draft of the peace agreement. But then the things get worse. But as to institution in on the ground, what us to uh, illegal tubes on the bunch of students on it and kind of a regional, funded by john. I think the some external forces also gave a negative influence. Rush from the blink kind of donald roll up one hand, its the peacekeeping forces to the point. There are, on the other hand, your access to wants to control the, the whole solid works is both country. So were looking for some level to adjust. And what are some external forces . I believe countries like france, we are mo, bending to demand from the private go elements so far, meaning they asked for a, um, solely arr, interfering can to negotiation process. And keeping one side of statements to support the media, which is not conducive to the piece. So thats my opinion. Why it will show up, transportation on that. All right, let me bring in a, hey, i know weve got several players in this conflict on auto media. The arent as a by john, we gold rush or the u. S. B, e, u, and book it. Now, all of those have differing agendas and seemingly were broken down piece process once again. I mean that there rolls on, helpful right now, a thank you very much for the invitation and to far you go to the comments. I do think that obviously your political lenses, important, but at the same time i would not minimize the agency and the role of local actors, armenia as other by john, but the particular simply because it won the war in 2020. So these peoria is a very proud job post for process. These are fragile. They either lead to the next war, consolidate the fragile piece, emerging as victorias. Thereby, john essentially won the war, but the president aaliyah is struggling to win the peace. We. The Peace Process has been russia obviously does play a role, but other by john has been pulling in the rock from much more than a quarter of otherwise the western piece track has been moving, tying to the Peace Process institutionalizing by protecting the minorities wasnt close to simply getting rid of the rights of the new price of the normal club of hard mediums which are international were recognized as part of browser about john. And just to provide a little bit more a context in terms of the data. Since 19 seventies. The number of accident conflicts has been going down, and the research is connected to the increased the willingness, the states to accommodate provide to rights in a rotation stop by to make the call like a button. What do you think of that statement . And passion young is struggling to win the piece. So it makes sense to it. I mean, it was comprehensively defeated, minutes early in the, in the war in 2020. And, you know, the students, i think is, oh, well, the economys been booming, ever since it was hooked up to a pipeline that matched that as well as the international markets. And it spends a lot of money on it gets up at the same time it to develop these drones drones. Were seeing ukraine, you know, they asked about johnnys were the ones a pioneer and use them to devastating effect during the conflict. And so pushing is on his back foot now. Um then its early. It is which tom suspend service treated and when the war and hes gusting around that 1st solution and there was a punch i post a ceasefire agreement broke by restaurant between as a media. But that hasnt been working, im, as my colleagues, is suggesting that the russians havent really stepped up to their responsibilities. Because under the c s t, all of this um, collective security or uh, treatment agreements that they have. Pressure is supposed to be the guarantor of the peace and security in the region and it hasnt really managed to do that. Its been destructive increasingly by your brain recently. Um, but it didnt do a very good job of bringing the most annual growth during investing ceasefire. And so now you have this very tense situation, whereas the bush on is blocking the election car, the, the only route out of the kind of back to media. And the area is predominantly populated by armenians. And i think this is the ruse. The problem that seem that everyones agrees that the, that, thats our treatments im going to kind of ask is a, as a, has been since recognized from the beginning. But its over whelming, the populated by all means. And thats the problem. I think everybodys honest is trying to push those people. Last words like say get under was full control, but the still there and this by hey, it is all about sliding the left was to go. Um and a was afraid. Uh, chevy of actually said was that russia was playing a double game when it came to level one know kind of back. Thats kind of vintage right, reiterated by ben, as well as russian may have been playing a double game of distracted certainly by perhaps ukraine is russia still the piece broke out that we needed to be. I do agree with various comments that might be playing the double game before i attend to the let me just add a particular point. I think the of the, the condition again, the emerging cause, victoria, there was a mix of other jobs and also were offering an alternative. Well, in order for you or did you do p per capita e mails or by john is right now the lowest thing the solid cost us is. So i do think thats the way this call will be resolved. Whether or not the car box has an entity will be provided right or not. This is a very large book at the heart of the political identity of the other by johnny state. So thats a little bit on the up in regards to russia. Russias policy in managing complex before the warranty for a has been just private by researchers. I hope we parent and counseling attitude, meaning that there is of this nature as to how russia gets involved and maybe age. And several of my books have been focused on this. I do agree that the roof rack is playing the double game. Yeah, i do know if its, uh, its not. I dont think it is distracted by the warning ukraine. I think the visa says over us to maintain cross has capacity rocks like historically it has been playing multiple roles in various theaters around bass territory and your age and continent. I do think that russia, by no means limited to the very agreements that you go to, to the end of the war by essentially pushing back against rules against transparency. Thats one way as a type to the global system. So the worlds baseball daughter, so i think the roster is playing games and watching core 8 or the more kids in particular, which is in that agreement which russia is not uh, is not protecting. The opening of the watching cory door is also has been issued a ruling by the International Court of justice watching court, or is the lynched pin to a piece of process that can be institutionalized, that kind of wood piece restructured. Describe the quality piece i can provide predictability transparency, security and dignity to the new group. So why dont new one have . This is a mass that you many charity in crisis. The located subject community to remember. But from the political perspective box, who is using that as a way to avoid political accommodation with the not born a carmel, which has enjoyed self governing since 1920, when it was part of the soviet republic. Because there about them. Let me bring in for a to is a back who avoid doing political accommodation deliberately, you know, its the conceptual things. First of all, when were speaking about unilaterally arrives and security. So part of media ends in colorado or elsewhere. We should also speak about right. And secure deposit of budget is and remember that the, the whole lot of mean it was if you click leads from, is that a budget is not on the armenia, but the currently even the, to the thought of which is on them. Comfortable low fraction peacekeepers. So that is not as important as you know, single left there. So i mean, its got or told them in the budget or for during the years of the completion highest degree or for the reformed meals within the budget on. But its over declined. So no, as there by john offering the reintegration or part of renouncing to others by chance jurisdiction. I have to make comments because tool might, will accept the ball and luncheon quarter door. We should remember the luncheon is the 1st page in outside of my garment. Kind of which was a combined in 1992 and for the patient is allowed armenians to attack from both directions already. Joseph positive by john and apple pie, then a selection. Is there roads not only for when it died in, but also was made it to the patient and really police apply for me is its far more important for me as far as and by going to control it, by the way, despite the other bunch of both works to armenia, mouth to the war event. Lets keep the election open. I would follow a custom more robust, which controlled but the same as the last 4 from armenia to capt route, to not to want. If my bullocks defer to try natural agreements, which was signed up to the war accessible clauses about election and also the way from either the budget to enough to or what i mean, im sorry. But if you assign what ive written back on duty to establish custom and passport control, and i think from the point of integration, bradford walls, all of this was going on wells. All of this continue to happen. There was a massive humanitarian crisis unfolding in the going no kind of back there on. There is no food in many of the supermarkets, a lot of business is all going bus that is happening. So were at a crockett point. Hey, you need to do something, something needs to happen, and nothing seems to be happening. Whats the hold of, you know, right . The other button hold for a totally to fluids, azerbaijan, old for the one, to talk to him. The hell a to come up with hard meals, but i think its the Insurance Agents of kind of a lot of maintenance and also they would like to show sort of fi optics to the global media that the star didnt come up with you himself. Think them the need for what is available. Earth is available, they should comply. And from that by chance i do is diction. Then its very interesting was it was use as us. Yeah. Tricks of the global media. These people on actually solving, they just call and come up with the agreement. What do you make of that . Well, i think youre right there is a humanitarian crisis. The people are stuffing the stories coming out of the pictures of the supermarkets empty shows. We had a report the other day of the, one of the mother whos this child the dice. As a result of this, the blockade around the region. And the french and the, the man of paris was just on the border about 10 days ago with trucks for this is a couple of 100 times with the food and tried to cross into the, into the inquiry into kind of, i was refused by the board of gods, and so there is a deliberate policy there. Booking the entrance of this, this humanitarian aid, the supplies that the entire kind of buy relies on that much and card or the supplies of food in order to keep his people fast. And so i think as a pleasure and is this thing hospital here in so much as a lot of the anxiety in order to push through the political agenda by effectively, by force, by starving the population into submission. And thats, you know, thats a hard lines to take the, the alternatives, i dont think realistic. And at the same time, old of the, the gas, the electricity, the connection to the internet has been cut off. And so the region really has been completely isolated from the outside world. I dont know, what are the big problems about the indigo on a part of our conflict is the lack of a piece broke of the both sides can agree on russia was almost the best of a bad bunch. Nobody could really agree that the us should be involved and theres nobody really. So the you should be involved in this named decide been, was that, but were now a stage where perhaps that needs to be an alternative piece broke out with a strong role to play. But can you see one the old sides kind of grim oh, im sorry i got my voice describing. I do agree a quick points. I do agree with the best description of whats going on and as loud in regards to all the dumb road, i say thats a local road. Sooner or later, perhaps it will be opened will be used. Im assuming as a supplement north, an alternative collection quarter, but i do want to highlight that present melia is using the up or down more. Im sorry, ill go down the road. I have a strategy of a hybrid or affair. Meaning using the piece process, coercing a population maximum as the gym. Does we dial in using mueller. Tory for which can be quite costly are per by cool. And thats a problem at a loss to say the could go way if there was a piece process that was actually working. And thats the question im asking you. Is there a piece for the everybody can agree to . And i think so far, both armenia band, azerbaijan have actually been working the level of diplomatic activity between them has to be non precedent. It, they have utilized the russian channel and they never utilize the western channel. The absence of normal fireball phone buddy vocation table is usually problematic because the piece Research Data shows that piece process these that are not inclusive to model have a high chance of being implemented as to incredible 3rd party on the quote feel this boy, i do think its a matter of whether were looking um, uh, russian a process is obviously itself starting russia. Oh, so you play the it has the feel have been able to stop the war, but has not stopped the bleeding, but it has not been able to seal the wounds so to speak. Whether i do think that it is important to move the process for the western track, whether its the united states, whether its a western country, whether its the you that has been playing an Important Role and that he, you, european powers do have leverage over other by john, which i do think holes a lot of the charge right now, but who has a lot of agency and that respect . Im finding the november 9 every month now increasingly defined before the watching. Cory door is blocked. The border of opening is not happening right um, which we created inter dependencies between the 2 nations, our media in azerbaijan. And those are about your own borders of the are close to the traffic or the open only from cargo as well as their flight. So i very much only show has postage borders to its neighbors. And im quite pessimistic that other about yall is willing to open the waters. And i mean youre has offered to open the border, strauser by john. So low maximum connectivity between now thereby done the javan in quite a hurry. Let me burn the free. Let me bring you in here. Um, there is a problem with the boat is they all show we do know this, but theres also the fact that were talking about peace broke and you hear my in trying to get these board is open to get the goods and trade flying back into the going a car back, but the russians are being able to do the us has about 85 that troops on the, on media inside making a note, perhaps a honest bro. Okay. And the piece process is that a piece broken . It would, you would be satisfied with the meetings will be satisfied with as well. I would like to highlight this if you would like to deliver and when its out of date, you apply it to the government and the government tell you which way youre gonna supply everyones underneath. Thats because to both of my goal is insistence that blatchley is going to go to his blog. I know that button is month outlines might have done a been made or friends of thomas. She brought the file. Its kind of an issue with the budget and, and again, that is some rules plus apply, but that should be done. Weve got the nation, weve sent off your district, but as photos of the, for the Peace Process, its very complex. But its core element is the combination of to the total integrity of the 2 countries. I mean, as it by john, we on the one hand hooks from pushing out positive states and about cheating up last cut off on a spark, a positive my job. But the late fee just few days ago, you sent the code conduct letter a letter to on that occasional circle, the independence of my going to cut off. So it still contradictory statements. So thats why we need to be use a position we need uh, some commitments moving toward a piece strictly based on the definition of not to throw in a ticket until 2 countries and one pointed bulk open border as the budget. And again, i repeat, in 2021, offered maintenance to open borders, but i just talked to somebody who was wanting to discuss the election and why im not discussing this route for that but jumped too much. You, well, ive been, youve been a veteran of the region so many, many years. There is no accommodation right now. Theres no peace price as right now. But were not looking at, i know the shooting will over always. Well, the situation on the border is still unstable. I mean, the occasional flashes um shooting instance, but i mean i, so this thing, the priest but priest piece process. I mean, i, what im seeing here is that the suicide spencer, in so much, is a passion and is, is fed up, is, is frustrated, but hes not making any progress. And the security deal, the c s t of the night. So the focus of the union to provide was supposed to provide that, but this week will be finished and the c a c o r, holding exercises. And it was supposed to happen in uh, in uh, many of this year. But the, um you had around refused to hold them and they ended up being moved to 2 minutes, which was a major step in the face for this collected security deal. And then whats happening, whats about to happen now is that america is being invited to hold ministry x sizes together with um, media for the 1st time. And theres going to be some 85. 00 uh us troops. Uh, and this is clearly designed as a gesture to moscow saying that youre supposed to guarantee the piece. Youre not doing it. Im sorry, im reaching out to the americans and then maybe all goes on that. Right. And hes also to, its about maybe, you know, across just leave the boxes at the same time, my current is going to involve them, pm, you know, phone conversations basically push it in and boost. And its in, back to just in the beginning of this month. And so this is also the, the parents may have getting involved because consequences, a very large jasper of, of medians living there as those america. And so that we dont want to go time and we all the time you do make a very good point. I want to put this to and it as well, anna, are you afraid that if something radical doesnt happen very soon, the we all going to say another war in that region. I am very afraid and thats a very good question to pose. Um, i think the lack of an institutionalized piece process is problematic. The solve a far a western negotiation track. Somebody above who is problematic, but there is credit bill it. Your problem, i understand if i read is mentioning this route and alternatives bought with this x, y, z. But the problem is by putting parallel has also been using source since 2020 in both in the car box as well as on you know, media. So i am worried that it, you know, we are running out of time and i do, and i think you ought to use. You said it very succinctly. I just went off the exact same question to for read as well for you to are you afraid the will might break out . I dont think they did a lot scheme of things like war happens because i dont think so. But small publications happens all the time and the most um, i would say what is some element of that thats 2 on the bridges territory which of the legal groups i want to thank oh i guess the 3 theres half here of and honey and. And then harris and i want to thank you as well for watching see the program any time by visiting our website out. Is there a dont come on for further discussion goes well facebook page, thats facebook dot com, forward slash asia inside story. And you can also join the conversation on x for me, as twitter handle is as a inside story for me and bronchitis and the entire team hit by for now the the stories of hope and inspiration show a document to ease from around the world. That celebrates culture and resilience in the times of the out the phone interview and everything to be an exclusive interview. Disability. Very beautiful, but its cruel. People can forget you the next day, fulfilling stupid stuff to hold on faith, the media and the challenges that this whole region have so much get all of all the media, all the fading and everything and go back to reality. Wendys money. You have to be careful, money change, people, generation flows on, ill just use from, ill just on the go and the tonight out is there is only mobile app. Is that the, this is where we live from out is there is a mobile app available in your favorite taps to just set for it and type to move the new app from out to 0 new at using. Is it the, the latest news as it breaks the shows when it really does say that one is when new little 3. Im depressed bedroom it was crossed on zillow. So i just was supposed to cool up, started a sitting in front of us, but it just says with details coverage. Agribusiness is like this cattle risk or the driving edge of the bolivian economy from around the world estimates battery, but its reckoned as many as 3000 souls have been damaged, still completely destroyed. Since the start of the war. The times time is a down in del how would that look at the headlines here . Now just see a powerful us. Quake is killed at least 820. 00 people in engine hundreds more and more. All co officials are reporting significant and widespread damage across several regions. The magnitude 6. 8 quake struck lights on friday night. Instruct some 70 kilometers south of the popular tourist city of morocco. Shocks were felt as far away as the coastal cities of robots, casablanca, and the swatter. For the genus, the name uh, i was visiting people in the same building on the 3rd floor. Suddenly we saw things falling from above, like dishes, and