Transcripts For SFGTV Board 20240703

Joining us by zoom. Sxlt up front we have javier, and we also have Nicholas Craw board acting superintendent urban forestry. The Board Meeting guidelines are as follows. The board request that you turn off or silence any phones. No eating or drinking in the hearing room. Members of the public who are not affiliated have three minutes. Time will be three minutes if the agenda is long or if there are multiple speakers. We will give you a verbal 20 seconds when your time is almost up. Please email board staff at board of appeals. Now Public Access and participation are of paramount importance. Sfgovtv is recording this live. Also providing close captioning for this meeting. So watch the meeting, go to channel 78, please note that it will be rebroadcast on friz on channel 226. Sf gov. Org. Now Public Comment can be provided in three ways. One inperson, two via zoom, go to our website and click on the hearings then the zoom link. Or three by telephone. Enter webinar id 1202840. 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Do you swear or affirm that the testimony youre about to give in will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do. Please put your speaker on mute. Commissioner we have one housekeeping item. The parties for item 5, have come to an agreement and would like the board to adopt. The agreement is dated may 18th and posted on our website. The appellant would like to briefly address the board so. Mr. Clip. You have three minutes to address the board. Ill just do this. Good evening, its been 1 19 days since we first convened to removal of these three cherry trees. Nine days john sent me a list, a list that he created himself walking block by block, i got a reply that they would get to work on it. Then there was 40 days of silence, by day 41, i called again and another 20 days of silence. On day 70, i followed up again. On day 77, public works emailed that they had no plan. I replied and never received an answer. On day 104, we had our first meeting to discuss the resolution. They could not answer tree diameter. On day 1117, we had our second meeting but public works forgot about it and didnt show up. So by day 118, yesterday, i told public works that we received an agreement. Public works filed a complaint and by day 51 issued a reprimand. And then i realize, this city can move fast if they want to. And two, i cannot save these cherry trees. Even though they were unable to articulate simple answers to basic questions, the removal of these two trees must stand that they were right and to a sage the bruised ego. So i gave up on that. I gave up on trying to protect the two trees because i believe i could not overcome. And while the city has apologized, it has never apologized to these two trees. Apparently, thats left to people like me. So tonight, im going to honor those trees, thank them for their lives, thank them for what theyve given us and unfortunately thank them for their sacrifice. Im going to read a japanese aico translated into english. 30 seconds. The cherries only fault, the crowds that gather when they bloom, thank you. Thank you. I dont believe any of the other parties want to speak, so we have comments . You do have to call Public Comment. Do you have a question or a comment . I have a question for the witness, if thats ~ appellant mr. Klipp. Yes. I guess, its more of a reaction and that is the story that you have told here, have you had the opportunity to tell anybody else about that . Im not sure who would care. Really im not sure. So i just wanted it to be said. Okay, i dont ask you out of levity or out of any lack of regard for your work on this and your efforts, but i do hope that there are other people in this building who are hearing you, and can do things that this board cannot do to address the very serious statements that you have made today. And i appreciate your here and other members of the public diligence in participating, not losing faith and helping resolve matters of importance to every one. And however long those trees would otherwise have lived, on the shade that they would have otherwise have given, i want to express my appreciation for your comments today. Thank you. Vice president. I want to thank you mr. Clerk for your diligent and important work that you continuously do for the city. Its not something that youre going to get thank for a lot in the world. Thanking is not what i get. I want to thank you because i see what you do and i see you here all the time and i appreciate it. And i know other commissioners do. Thank you. Commissioner swig. Josh you know from my past appreciations on the efforts, im very sorry, given i guess that im a City Employee that im the representative of the mayor, im sorry the department did not see fit to respond to you in a timely and respectful fashion. And i dont know what to do about that. Next time i see that department head, who have responded you to remind them that you paid taxes, you pay their salaries and they should be for respective and responsive to somebody like myself, we do it for the better good and sisry. I apologize that you want through that. My respect continues to be the highest and please continue your good work because youre a good conscious for everybody involved who this pay more attention. Mr. Lopez. I he echo the words of appreciation for your work. And at the risk of saying the obviously, waut your attention and diligence, we would not have a deal like the one that was accepted which is a net positive and i think its a result of your efforts, without which, i think you know, much more in this space would go unaddressed. And so thank you for your diligence on this question and other matters as well. Thank you. Thank you. We will now move on to Public Comment, is there anyone in the room that would like to provide Public Comment on this item . Okay, i do see a few handson zoom. The phone number ending in 2185, please go ahead. Please star of to unmute yourself. Speaker just in your point of confusion, the agenda online item number 5 of trees at 100 street, assumes no longer item 5. On the screen it says youre discussing item 5. We have a housekeeping items the parties for appeal number 23058 have come to an agreement and the board plans to adopt that, i will check online. Im not sure what youre looking at. Im looking at your agenda at your website. Thank you. So what agenda item is 1100 Mission Street . I have 100 Mission Street as item number 6. I think youre confused about the numbering on the website, you will see that 1100 Mission Street is item number 6. Its listed, so please open up the pdf of the agenda. Okay. Thank you, let me protest the apparent loss of these two trees. Okay, is that it . Speaker yes. Thank you, we will now hear from bunny, please go ahead. Hi, can you hear me . You have three minutes, please go ahead. Can confirm that you can hear me . Yes, you can. I was just, also looking at the agenda and it seems like the motion was suppose to be granted due to the removal and removal was consistent and it does not sound like those concerns were addressed. Im not hearing why those trees still need to be removed. And in addition, echoing, it also sounds like the city didnt actually care to do what the board ask, to find a solution to plant additional trees without the assumption that these two trees would be removed. I want to say that this is incredibly disappointing and erodes what others are doing. And the environment that we live in. I just want to say its a very disappointing all around that it feels like the appellant was not listened to. And i ask the board to agree to the plan to plant more trees and keep the two that are there. There has been no basis for their removal. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Is there any further comment, please raise your hand . Okay, Michael Nolte please raise your hand. Speaker hi im Michael Nolte, i was involved in the process of some of the original meetings and you know, it is frustrating trying to keep trees especially when the Community Feels that there is no need to remove then. And then, when it said that the there was some sort of agreement, how does one get an agreement na is being talked about today if its not in the website and it was not really mentioned so far. And its just frustrating all the way around dealing with city departments. The many years that, i grew up in San Francisco and im still puzzled how the Government Works and does not work. And like was mentioned already by the commissioners, you know if youre from San Francisco, you live in San Francisco and you pay taxes and you like the elected official and you hope that Government Works better. It seems government working for the people or this is just a bunch of people that go to work and for themselves and not the people. So frustrated all the way around there should have been a better outcome no removal of trees is necessary if there was no reason to remove the trees. And more trees need to be planted in San Francisco, period. Thank you. Thank you, and just to address the question, the agreement is posted online under the supported documents on this appeal. We will now hear from john nolte, please go ahead. Speaker good evening, i have a couple of issues here. One that this is, the we, modeling a japan town center there. Is the real issue why this is happening because of the and it was really not discussed. And therefore were talking about multi Million Dollars for the fixing of the garage and the plaza. And so, there is money there but they dont want to discuss money. I think when you have a multi Million Dollars budget and discussed the last time around, about people here, when i was formed and so forth, the issue is here now. Why only 9 trees of which i see is the agreement which is good and indirectly but at no timeline and if there is no money for it and if there is no agreement to watering them for three years, you know, you need the whole package. You need to know the reason y they have to be removed which we dont know and also we dont have, really no source of money for the planting of any trees and what department is it going to be rec and park . Or what the department is going to plant trees and be acknowledging that these trees would be planted. I dont think that is really being discussed. You had an agreement but again, i took time several hours, i dont see the trees that i pick because they have a thing about doing their own thing anytime they get any kind of a list. So i question, the process the agreement, the length it took to the agreement. And also what is going on between buff, the board of appeals and not being able to get a more accurate functional City Government when these things are discussed in an open forum and not having, not being coming to a real settlement. So because you have an agreement but that does not mean the agreement is going to be enforced because there have been other agreements about trees and they still have not been done. Sol. Its great that we have, we have come to the board of appeals for an agreement and so forth. But the followup. And so, thats what we need to followup and also more transparency on how these things work. Second, for your time. Thank you, is there any Public Comment . Pleas raise your hand. I dont see any. Commissioners this matter is submitted. Commissioners, do i have any discussion or a motion starting with commissioner swig . Sure, julie, i cant im having trouble with my computer and weve gone paperless and im an old guy that needs paper. Settlement, related to the last Public Comment, the in the agreement is there a time line when these trees are to be replaced . Yes, its everything is spelled out in the agreement. Can you, would you please. Pull it up on the screen, alex, please. So i can see. Its by midoctober. Its posted online. To be replaced with a deadline. Thats great, thats what i want to know. Im sure if if those trees are not in by midoctober, first i want the executive director to please, put an article file to ask dbw if those trees are in by october 31st because weve got experience with promised made and promised broken. And im sure that mr. Klipp will come in Public Comment on october 31 if those trees are not in place. But just in case, id like to hold dpw accountable because there seems from the public a concern of that this is not a series agreement. Did you want to us show the agreement online . Its not necessary. I just got answer, which is the timing but weve had prez, i can think of the library, i can think of the the thing on eddie street where that test is in the parking lot there. Those promises have not been kept the public has spoken in Public Comment, that there is a level of mistrust. Our position here on this board of appeals is to build trust between the public and the trust with city hall. So thats a good way to send a message that well be looking. Thank you, commissioner swig. Im wondering president lopez is dpw here to talk about this settlement . It looks like we have a representative here in the room. Nicholas craw board is here. They dont have any comments, they have come to an agreement and they didnt feel necessary to speak. Do you have a specific question for them . I did, i didnt realize they were here. Usually they come up and say, we have no comment and were here to answer questions. I missed that part. I mentioned that only the appeal appellant wanted to address the board. Im sorry if that was not clear. Well i have questions. Okay. Nicholas crawford acting superintendent. Thank you, i see in the written document that its not removal of two trees, it is the addition of 9. What seems to be a negotiation and agreement. As i heard mr. Klipp earlier, it sounded like dpw was not meeting or communicating. Is this a bona fide agreement . Or is it something where you just gave up . Sure, i was not part of the negotiation, but im here to represent the department so it would be hard for me to the conversations that brought us here. If this is something that you accept, then they would absolutely be a binding agreement between us. Are you aware of any of the negotiations. I was familiar with the conversation because we were talking about things as we go long, but if there was a specific communication gap, i would be look into that. Did you hear him describe the 1120 days, is there anything in there that was incorrect . I was in those conversations but i can followup with you. Is sounds like there were no conversations. Im trying to get a sense as i look at this work, one level it looks like its negotiation and agreement. Lose two, get nine trees, nobody gets everything that they want, it seems reasonable. On the other hand, as testified, that it sounded like there was a delay or there was a meeting that was scheduled and people forgot, or there was a meeting and they were not prepared. Im trying to get some inside as ho how seriously the Department Took the instructions from this board when we said were continuing this for the purposes of the parties to meet, and to reach an agreement. For us, it could have been a couple of things happening, where this was rec park project initialed and we were involved from the perspective of the trees, if our conversations were not being related that would be part of the issue that is being described. But in the lead up to this, we inspected the sites and marked them for utilities and determined if they were valid. So we stand behind what were proposing and the basil area is, its rounding up to more than fulfill that comparison and making sure that were planting nine trees that would more than offset the basil area lost. I only have two questions i dont want to be labor the point because there is an agreement. Can you articulate the removal of the two trees . Yes. Can i use the projector . So these are the trees from one perspective and then from the other perspective. Theyre small trees, very small canopies. The cherry trees and the sidewalk space. So, none of those things are factors for removal, but this is much different perspective. So from this drivers perspective, the trees arethat small profile can be. I didnt realize that there is a streetlight there. So right underneath, you can barely see the green light t. Does obstruct the visibility of that traffic light. That would be a way to mitigate that. So you can still see the traffic light if we could raise the branches. Since the cherry trees, they cannot get that big to below that site line. This is not something th were driving around looking to remove trees but when there is project like this, it prompts closer examation, thats what brought this concern. If it ab instructs the traffic line, andobstructs the traffic line, and. Well when the department decided not to speak to us, they could have said this. Im just one member but i think you heard my colleagues and i would hope that the message you heard here pretty unanimous goes back to others in your department so they can reflect upon the level, the harming of credibility when we hear things from members of the public and we dont get a response from the department. Thank you. Im happy to take any other questions. Thank you. Message received. Thank you. With that, seeing no further comment, ill make a motion and i may need your help with this julie, i believe were granting the appeal, correct . Correct. And then adopting the removal of on the basis of the agreement that has been reached among the parties. The original order allowed for the removal but we would be adopting the agreement dated may 14th which talks about the replacement plans and timeline. So the motion would be to grant the appeal and order to require the adoption of the agreement dated may 14, 2024. Committed by the parties for the hearing today. And what would be the basis for your motion . On the basis that the agreement addresses the issues raised in the appeal. Okay, thank you. On that motion, commissioner tras vina. Aye. Commissioner swig. Aye. President lopez. Aye. That carries. That was a housekeeping item, so were going to move to item 1. To general Public Comment. This is for anyone that would like to speak on on item that is not on tonights calendar. Okay, please approach the microphone. You have three minutes. Speaker hello im kevin roach from the arts of San Francisco, were asking the board, we need more Affordable Housing for people with disability. And were wanting to know, that now downtown the buildings downtown, there are office space could be a possibility or something, because i dont think there is much housing getting built with people with a disability. And im worried about the future of people with disability. Wla the planning for housing is for people with a disability. Thats what im asking. Thank you. If you can fill out a speaker card, that would be great. So we know for the minutes. Thank you, is there any other general Public Comment. I see three people on zoom, and this is general Public Comment. The phone number ending in 2185. Please go ahead. Hi, thank you. I just like to ask that all the Board Members divulge during tonights meeting any context youve had with any appellants or respondents or their allies including city official any communications before the meeting. Thank you. Thank you, next. Julie. Our policy is that the parties cannot have exparte communication with the board, that is prohibited. Everything must go through me and be on the public record. Thank you. Bunny, please go ahead. Speaker hi, can you hear me . Can you confirm that you can hear me. Yes, i can go ahead. Speaker general comment of just the, the topic of trust in the city is that i personally do not currently trust the city is doing the right thing for trees, im trying to be very general because somewhat feeding from the last topic and the hearings that happen again and again and again, i just want that clear public process and for the city to do what they say what theyre going to do, their own plan and policies, just be consistent and be transparent and do what you say youre going to do. This is extremely frustrated as a citizen to hear these matters over and over again and to hear that the city is not doing the right thing for their people. Yeah, im extremely disappointed. Thank you, Michael Nolte, please go ahead. Speaker ye, wanted to address the last meeting that you had, you discussed, i guess its what is called the policies of your board that youre going to be changing the rules. And just because nobody was at the meeting at the time that you were discussing, it does not mean that the public is not interested on how your policy is going to change. And of course when you coming up about ideas, you want the meeting shorter, you want to do limits on certain things and obviously, when these kinds of changes are made, and if the public are not made aware of, because once theyre adopted, then you can see at a meeting, this is now the new policy and and it becomes a surprise to everybody. And i know that you might think that its a, you know, youve notified everything or something to that affect t. Becomes frustrating because not everybody is going to be attending every meeting. Nobody has to attend every meeting. And you know, just one of many government bodies that exist in San Francisco and you know, its very hard for the public to keep track of everything. And yes, i mean youre entitled to make, you know, new set of rules, because its a new year before you to that affect. But still its very frustrating when a new, you want to make new changes and i dont know why that needs to happen to begin with. There was nothing wrong with the old policies you had. So, frustrated, i guess is what im going to say. It will affect feet meetings and any new policies you do adopt, thank you. Thank you, commissioner trasvina, i see your hand. Only to followup on commission swigs request of you, and that is if you could or the City Attorney can articulate the policy and protocol that we cannot answer Public Comments specifically. And our silence to Public Comment as no connection to the validity of your statements or the importance of them, its just so i hope that the public does not take from our silence and inattention or insensitivity which would cause further frustration, which we dont want to create. And for your information, mr. Nolte, on may 29th, we will be proposing no rule changes. So if you would like to participate, we welcome you. Okay, so we will now hear from john nolte, please go ahead. Speaker good evening, my take on what is going on with the new rules is that its discussed for several years, the items that you want to change. But you know, my concern is that, one meeting to look at immediately adopt is not fair. I think this should be a way which you, post the final, next meeting you do your, decide on what what the final version is going to be and leave it up there for another hearing before you make this kind of vote. But i dont think its fair to think that everybody is going to be at one meeting and having two meetings on the topic wor better for everybody concerned and getting feedback on whatever additional changes, because they were like, i heard 17 different changes that were going to be done to your bylaws for your commission. And i understand you, you cant respond to Public Comment but im just giving you feedback of the public and also what other commissions do when they do adopt new rules and i understand that your commission, you probably hadnt had those, your bylaws for the commission touched for a number of years. So its just revision that youre looking to do and to look forward to in your future meetings but i think its important that people know that those rules how they will affect Going Forward and have some hindsight and commissioners know everything. Thank you very much. Thank you, is there any other general Public Comment . Okay, i dont see any, so were moving on to item number 2, commissioners comments and questions . Commissioners, look like were all set. Okay, thank you, were now moving on to item number 3, adoption of the minutes. Are the minutes of the may 8, 2024, meeting. Commissioner transvina. I move to adopt the minutes of may 8th, 2024 meeting. Okay, is there any Public Comment to adopt the minutes . On that motion, president lopez. Aye. Commissioner lemberg. Aye. Commissioner swig. Aye. That is adopted. This is appeal 23037, bureau streets and mapping subject property appealing the issuance on december 121 public works order. The denial of application, all items encroaching the public right away. They did not provide updated plans with the following conditions and alterations. Three feet of clearance and box on hola way sf, three tlaoet of travel and removal of the approximately 10 by 10 cedar burgela. They need to show all features and altered locations of the fences. This is permit 21msc00118. Upon motion by Vice President lemberg, the board voted 41 to opinion to may 15 so the appellant can get a license. So we will hear from the appellant first, welcome you have three minutes. Thank you. Did you want to submit something to the board. President lopez, i did bring hard copies of the slides if i can present them. Sure. Our survey does show a 9foot right away. The type of right away recorded by the subdivision map is the sub surface right away, not as they claim a public right away. Dpw shares that in 1915 our 90foot however, our sub service was not dlud in this transaction because its 9foot width did not meet the transfer requirement. And paramount to this case is the 1922, legalization of our right away as a Public Utilities easement, and easement by definition is private property reserves for specific purpose making as an unpaid sidewalk both unlawful and criminal. Furthermore while dwp claims its a ninefoot unpaved sidewalk, state and municipal code requires to be able, firm and resistance and be made of concrete, exposed aggregate or other commonly used material. Notably, dwp claim that 1098, for our neighborhood is falsified evidence and a felony. Ordinance 1098 for lakeview and enacted when our property was still part of the engel side racetrack. For more claim that the sidewalk is 15 feet and was established in 1903 is falsified evidence and a felony. Nearly a decade after this alleged 19 03 legislation and the city approved a sub surface right away, not an unpaved sidewalk. Our private green spaces including our utility easement, have been cultivated with the city plan resulting in improved safety, decreased cierjs improved property values, expanded and diversified and increased outdoor engagement. However the citys interest in our is to destroy to permits for nonexistent property crime. This harms the public by violating 29 policies municipal code and 35 date and federal laws. As there is no public right away, or unpaste ford, or approve or deny the sidewalk permit where no encroachment exist. We humbly ask that dpw repute ated its jurisdiction and direct them to issue a new decision and correct their errors. Thank you. Thank you. Member lemberg. Number one, i wanted to ask if you did record the survey that was prepared by your surveyor . Is so i had emailed the discussion on whether their Licensing Agency required that, and i can share with the board, i have copies of emails. Can you do that. You can show it on the overhead. Sorry. So the independent licensed surveyor explained the surveyor requirement for filing a record of survey, quote. Our licensing requires that we file a record of survey with the county in concern swaixes. For your report its technically not required. Your law is part of a subdivision and i was able to find sufficient monuments, so we technically, dont need a record of sur vai. I normally have to explain to clients why i do, but your situation is one of the rare instances where you dont. And i have the emails attached. Thank you, this is very helpful. And then the second question, the second thing that was in the order, did you provide the entire report to public works by may second . Yes, i did. Okay and was there a complete report that we didnt see . No, that was the boundary. Okay, thank you. Thats all ive got right now. Thank you, you can be seated. We will now hear from the bureau of streets and mapping. You have three minutes. Good afternoon, im javier from public works. Our decision remains the same. The survey performed bit private land surveyor, confirms that the dimensions that we were providing and also confirms the location of the sidewalk and the south being 15feet wide per what was matching per record. And even more importantly it does show, the rightofway line that weve been seeing and the sidewalk is nine feet, iements the fence is nine feet beyond the Property Line. Unfortunately, the location of the pergula and table and pgne wire, were not shown, it was something that would have been requested by the county surveyor it would have gone through their office. Again, this is what was previously shown to this board last time. The hatched area beginning the property in question and anything beyond the green lines between the red and the green is official sidewalk. Official sidewalks measured from the back of the curve to the Property Line and sidewalks may be paved or unpaved and still remain. So if youre not walking on it, its still a official sidewalk but it can be unpaved. Again, the close view, our estimates have pretty close there. Thed pergula, the wire, dpw does not put the wire. The puc streetlight, there is no access to it. And were told that the clearance between the tree wells and the fence are is three feet but at this point, we dont have any plans showing so. 30 seconds. At this point, we feel that weve applied proper codes to the encroachment and were asking for you to confirm public works decision. Thank you, Vice President lemberg, has a question. How do you respond to the appellants comments that they should cover this area. Most of the sunset tist, those nice big green lawns, most of it isnt. Theyre official sidewalks. There is a lot of areas, in San Francisco. And the key is, path of travel, right. The path of travel does have to be paid, we do have specs for first sidewalks for the walking. Im just not seeing the acception for the unpaved portions of the sidewalk. And im not sure where youre basing that assertion. Ive seen that Services Shall be stable and any public street or public rightofway, sidewalks should be concrete tile et cetera, where is the opposite side of that . I dont know offhand to be honest with you. Does it exist . Yes, they all exist. For example, the sunset we have to go up and down the sunset telling people that theyre encroaching to the rightofway and its not paved. For example, if you have a problem and many times that will happen, we just make them get an encroachment permit. So, yeah, the path to travel is really where it comes into play for the paving portion. Is there any legal citation that even creates the possibility of unpaved portion of sidewalks. Not that i can think of off the top of my head, i can look into that for you. But no, pretty much the legal parts as far as sidewalk width, i cannot say is measured in the public works because they occured to the Property Line, the official sidewalk. And again, official does not always equal constructed. Certainly, im going to pass my phone, i may circle back around here. Commissioner transvina. I have to admit to a great deal of confusion and i hope you help me work this out. Are you saying that this 201 ashton sidewalk, the conditions are replicated throughout sunset and other places in San Francisco. They are, yes. So if we make a decision to recognize the citys version whether this is a sidewalk and whether there is encroachment and whether the pergula should be removed, people can say, im atrisk of that also . Right . I would say no. This law, or its a state code that makes them responsible for their sidewalk. It already applies to them. Why resingling out . It does not mean that we cant have an encroachment, the pergela and the bench ak sees. So people do have fences in the rightofway but theyre three feet high. Same with hand escaping, we do allow landscaping in these areas. For example the pavers, those would be allowed as part of the minor sidewalk encroachment. The reason this is being denied is because of the items that we can allow. And when you say encroachment, that means. Its beyond the Property Line and into the public rightofway. Public right of a, public responsibility . Not necessarily, per the state of california, the sidewalk is the responsibility, the owners responsible for the adjacent sidewalk. Well isnt the owner taking responsibility with all of these improvements . They are but there are also conditions, we have to have certain conditions that we allow encroachments of this type. Right, so again, we will allow and were not saying we dont allow encroachments, we just cant allow all kinds of encroachments. Okay, thats helpful, thank you. Thank you, commissioner do you want to hear from the City Attorney first . Happy to go whenever it makes sense. To address some of the legal questions, i want to to ask the board and make sure there is aware of decisions of public works code. So one is public works code 723, which relates to obstruction of public right away, which is prohibited. The public right away, shall mean area along beneath and on and upon and within the dedicated public alleys boulevard roadway, and ways within the city as they now exist or hear after will exist and which are or will be under the permitting jurisdiction of the department of public works. So public codes 723 provides definition of the public right away, provides that obstruction is unlawful. The permit here i believe is under public works 723. 2 which allows for minor sidewalk encroachments under certain circumstances which im happy to answer questions about that. The another code that the board shall be aware of, is public works code 706. And what that provides is that owners of frontage responsible, that the title is owners of frontage for repair liability for unsafe conditions. So it its a portion of lot to my portion of street, avenue, court or place to maintain the sidewalk and sidewalk area including any parking strip, automobile runway and curve fronting in good repair and condition. This shall include removal of any unpermitted struck two including but not limited to and the roadoeon. In combination the public works code makes it the responsibility of the Property Owner to maintain in good repair those areas. And 723, precludes the obstruction of a public right away. Okay, thank you. Commissioner swig. Just when you know everything about growing up in the city, and youve been here for 72 years, you learn something new. I will to the City Attorney, i bare witness to the fact that the that your sidewalk is busted and go fix it and dont send us the bill. Im very familiar with that. Im thinking about my kid who just bought a house and i asked where was the dividing line and he didnt know. So one thing that is having in your p. M. Is that and i saw it, i saw your point, and it was that, people assume that theyre their front lawn belong to them and when in fact, do people assume that their front lawns belong to them, when in fact, they dont belong to them because thats the sidewalk was put in the first place. So in lieu of having gravel and improved area what happened was, can we plant grass . Sure, as City Attorney just said, thats cool. And further to that, what youre saying, majority of people have no idea until they try to build a fourfoot fence and there is a knock that says, not a good idea make it three. Is it as simple as that . It is. So youre, your point in this, hearing today is the owner of this property there were things that were there when she bought the property and went to improve those further to enhance her quality of life, the value of the property, that unknowingly that she didnt know what the rules were. And the rules were, you can have nice grass that extends from the sidewalk, you can have a threefoot that extends from seems to be the end of the beginning of your property or the end of these property and well let you do that. So is that what is happening here . Thats pretty much what is happening here, unfortunately. And how many people do you think in this city, actually know that that condition exist . Because one of the discussion thats we had last time, i dont know if you brought it up or somebody brought tup, were setting a precedence how about all the other people in the development. The present is the law, and to your point, is the president the law. The law says that the sidewalk is this wide, yeah weve allowed, the physical is only this wide but thats because there is an easement that is wider and we the city have allowed, development on the easement i dont think you dont go over three people and you dont go pergolas and you dont strike ~ thats what typically happens. Typically, again, there is either a complaint of some sort, 31 is called and it comes to our attention there is something or something of that nature. Or, the person is developing something in and their going to building inspection and getting a permit and they come to our department and it involves encroachment. Well flag it, majority of them come through. There is, there is planters and things of that nature that are within the acceptable encroachment and permitted under a minor encroachment. So the dpw point of view, is you should have known that when you bought the house . Yes, thats the advise that the City Attorney have gifp us in the past that were responsible for knowing what were buying. Thank you. Thank you, no further questions. You can be seated. Thank you. Is the planning Department Going to weigh . Thank you, you have three minutes. Good aong, president lopez, invite president lemberg, members of the board, im tina tam deputy zoning administration. 201 ashton a onestory single in the zone d district. The zoning administrative mr. Corey knew that there was a pending variance decision for the legalization of the tallfoot trelis in the required setback. This decision is on hold due to the issue related to the location of the front Property Line. If the board agrees to the survey performed by land surveying, then they agree that the fence and portion of trelis and fire pit are located within the rightofway. It only covers the portion of the trelis that is in the private report. Featured are pursue of public works. Once the decision is made by this board, the Zoning Administrator will advise the applicant on next steps to correct the and issue for a decision for the variance requests. Unless you have any questions for me, that concludes my presentation. Transvina has a question. Thank you for your presentation. Ive heard City Attorney, ive heard commissioner swig, describe, oh its new but this is the law. What legal changes would be required to allow the homeowner to have the requested component that she is seeking variance for . Im going to put up a drawing of whaibl is the current condition of the property. This is trelis highlighted in yellow. The blue line is Property Line per the survey that was submitted. Where the appellant has built their fourfoot high fence. So as you can see, the fence itself is not on private property, that is something that the Planning Department does not have per view over, were not going to be able to advise. However a portion of the trelis is within the private property and subject to the variance request. So depending upon the outcome of tonights hearing, we can go ahead and advise the applicant about the trelis. And where the trelis can stay and if so, what is the size, the footprint on the private property portion. Or does it mean the findings, it needs to be removed. Thoz are some of the possible decisions that the Zoning Administrator can make on the variance request. So the decision on the trelis, is is, unrelated to the issue of whether the fence is on public property or not . Thats correct. So then the issue is, what legal changes would we need to permit the fence to be . If the city is saying, the fence is unlawful there, what would make it lawful . That is the question for public works. I believe he stated some of the conditions, it has to do with the locations of the fence, the height of the fence, some of the sort of parameters like the light post and utility post and so forth. Okay, thank you. President lopez has a question. Just for the record is planning in agreement with dpws reading of the survey . Im not qualified engineer or surveyor, but in reading the survey it does point out the Property Line, it does match up with some of the language that has been provide beside the width of the sidewalk and the, the width of the, the rightofway to the center line of the street, that all kind of makes sense. And i to want to conquer with javier about properties in the sunset as a former cohen forcement manager, we dealt with many complaints and investigated a lot of properties all over the city including properties in the sunset where there is a dispute between where is that Property Line examine where you think the Property Line should be behind the sidewalk, its not always the case. Sometimes its often wider and encompasses folks perceived to front yard. So i want to make sure that im clear about yes, that does happen examine it happens a lot in the sunset especially for the street that runs eastwest like the ortega, norega, et cetera. And to followup on that, does planning and maybe during discussion ill turn to mr. Rivera on this note as well. This essential wouldnt have been caught but for the changes to the fence . The replacement to the fence. It was a complaint that was filed with the department of building inspection for illegal work. And that pertains to the building of the fence and its height. And indicated that the appellant the need to follow permit if she wishes to legalize these features. Im not aware of any resources that are available, we also do not do proactive enforcement and kind of drive up and down sunset as we look for features in public right away, we typically leave things alone, people do sometimes pave in what is public rightofway, unless its something that is called in. We dont often send them to public works. Got it, thank you. Okay, thank you. Okay, is there any Public Comment on this item . Anybody on zoom . I see one hand raised. Michael nolte please go ahead. Speaker i just want to say a comment that three feet is not much. You can just jump over them, i can understand why Property Owner would want something higher. I assume that this is something that theyre telling their perspective buyers all the things that theyre getting into when they buy a new piece of property and decide to make changes to their property or the property has been changed. There is a lot of stuff that seems to not be doing done correctly whether its a San Francisco or elsewhere and the codes keep on changing. So it really is very confusing for every one involved. Every year the state is making changes to the code and so is the city. Thank you. Thank you, is there any Public Comment, please raise your hand. Commissioner this matter is submitted. Commissioner, lets start with commissioner transvina. Thank you. Because it was previously, they om get three minutes. Im deeply concerned about this. I think this room should be full of Property Owners. Anybody that cares about property rights. As i recall this case, it started by a noise complaint. And fast forward today, if we adopt what the city is stating, every Property Owner in the sunset, every Property Owner in the city, particularly in this district 7, district 4, district 11 where this ashton is should be worried. And i cant be a part of the city sitting back for decades louing this to occur. In this neighborhood and elsewhere. I asked what about the other areas where the racetrack is to be. This is much larger. There needs to be a bert way of resolving this and treating the Property Owner who has improved her area. And the city is just, in that particular area of the pictures, has neglected it over a period of decades. So i, i dont think that we should set the president about some construction. I will be upholding it. I concur with commissioner transvina. I think the i dont think the a pel enter did anything. Its not clear that that is part of the responsibility. Its not clear that the pg e was not built on private property. I dont think its clear that wasnt either but i dont think its clear that it was. And i, i also believe that the appellant here, has done a pretty significant good to this neighborhood and i dont think we should discount that. So i would be prone to approving this appeal. Im really like this could cause very serious repercussion city wide and thats something that we often say that we dont want to do. And if we deny this appeal, it can easily do that. Im fwg to come from a different position. I cannot support the appeal, i cannot. President can easily do that. Im fwg to come from a different position. I cannot support the appeal, i cannot. Because weve heard about the legal statute, when there is a legal statute involved, the legal statute goes outside of our boundary and i wont do that. Whether i think its appropriate or not. Weve heard from dpw, this is the way it is. Weve heard from the City Attorney, she read us a chapter what happens these conditions occur. This is the law. This body is not in position to deny the law. I look at mr. Bruno who is here tonight. Mr. Bruno has brought in situations, coincidently, he discovered something can rightlely so he called it to the attention to the city in this case. Coincidently somebody made a noise complaint, it was discovered that according to legal breaches i hate it pass it off that i cavalier fashion. But thats what happened. Coincidently, it was discovered that the law had been breached. Its perception its not the law. Back when the fence, not this fence, im just speaking metaphorically or pa ran theteticll y. Guess what, it gets toss thed. If anything by precedence is by denying the law even though this is a unfortunately situation. You cannot deny the law from my point of view. So i wouldnt support this appeal. And in the context of precedent, i want to get my thoughts straight. Dpw says this happens, all of the sunset and until we discover it, im not going to quote you and i may get it all wrong. But unless we discover or there is something that really gets in the way, its my interpretation, it may go discovered. And when its discovered thats when enforcement action take place. It hay be that others may suffer a similar fate. Because for years and years and years, they didnt know it, they had been breaking the law. Even when they bought a hout with an existing condition and the realtor did not disclose it, that did not mean that the law was not being broken, it just means that it was not discovered. So the precedence here is going against the law. If i was a homeowner, i would be pissed but i cannot support an appeal that goes against the law. Ill offer some thoughts and well go to the speakers requesting the floor. Yeah, i see that there is a little bit more closely to commissioner swigs position. I worry, i think were all expressing concern about precedent setting and i worry about the precedent of a homeowner, whether it is, you know willingly or unwillingly, seeking to make improvements of their property that encroach into the private, public rightofway. And being you know, being in a position you know, particularly if somebody does that in bad faith and says, well you let this happen before. And its outside of the scope of this body. So in my mind, we have to go with what, what is within the public rightofway. And that question is not, i think unclear in my mind. I do think though, that there is there is blame to be shared on the part of the city, if were not proactively, giving residents in these affected areas, a heads up about this. I think there is a problem, and im sensitive to previous speakers concerns about having large swats of the city have this mat erin pop up and we heard, somebody, you know, a commissioner talking about a Family Member buying the property. That was a question that i directed to planning, what are we doing to arm people with that information. When were relying on diligence and essentially saying, well well address it if and when a complaint lands on our desk i dont think were being good stewarts for all the Property Owners in the area. And for responsible you know, home improvement, repair and development and improvement for the community. And i can see this halfing otherwise having a xhilg affect, you know what im not going to fix my house because the neighbor down the street, she had to pull out the fire pit, i have a problem with that. I can envision Something Like in my mind saying that the instructive of the fire station can stay and then we give, we, we mandate adjusting the fence so that the puc and pg e access can still be accessed by the relevant parties. You cannot support or just pelg the appellant rather that she has to take out that fire table in the various items of construction that has been done to the work too. To improve the property and improve the neighborhood, generally. With that ill yield to Vice President lemberg. You read my mind, but i do think that there are several sub parts of this that i pulled up for the record. And i would you know, if we dont have the votes for a full grant, i would love to suggest a compromise position where we can keep some of the things while also giving clear and the guy wire and box, yor what i dont remember what the box says. The thing that is problem other than the strict code interpretations. I do feel like this appeal out right is so punitive in its solutions. This is probably six figures worth of work for something that is added to a lot of neighborhood. So i would love to hear my fellow commissioners thoughts on this. Im a little bit flexible on the specific terms but i would like to find some compromise position bouncing off what president lopez is saying. Commissioner transvina. Would i like to join the president lopez and trying to figure out where that middle ground is. We all look at things in different ways, for example commissioner swig talks about our responsibility to uphold the law. I look at it as we have some power and it should not be over used. This is over using our power because we are telling properties, Property Owners throughout the San Francisco that theyre subject to a lot of discretion and theyre subject to again, starting from a noise complaint of about construction worker into you have to remove your fence. By granting appeal, we are shielding san franciscans from a lot of potential of abuse of discretion. Anybody that wants to come a long and say, this is the river and some of the issues that weve had. So i would say that we, we do need to grant the appeal and so do in a way that dress address the specifics as best we can. At the last hearing, we had a lot of neighbors come in and and the appellant submitted a petition, a lot of neighbors who walk in that area, daily. In my mind, theyre the ones that are most aware of the safety issue. Theyre most endangered if its a dangerous corner and they view the fence as appropriate. Any kind of resolution, the, the fence should be left in tact. I typically encourage the parties to go back and work it out. This is going on for a long time and if my colleagues think that we can resolve that here, im happy to hear any motion to see do so. Commissioner swig . Will the represent of public works step to the mic. You know what side im on, and i always listen to my fellow commissioners. Where is the compromise . Where is the ability to sustain to do is there a the ability to develop a cut out . Is there the possibility to do a cut out related to the pg e guide wire . Not too sure on the trelis, where the possibility for compromise. Where are the possibilities for specific property zen trick, i dont know, thats a planning. But from your point of view, is this, black and white . This is the way its got to be . Or would you like to take the advise to see if you can work on that and we can post on the decision again so you can all do a negotiation . Well everything you mentioned about the fence is something we can do. We can accept that. The height, i cannot say yes or no. The bigger is gas we have pergola and the rightofway. That would definitely have to go higher up. Is there a chance in hell, i just want to let you know that i am, you know, if you do, if you do, how do not do the 5th here. If i do 57 and a 55, if im doing 75 in a 55, i deserve to get slapped big time. So given and i recognize the 55 and soap, its still illegal. Is there a possibility to take this to your higher ups . To to follow the suggestions of my fellow commissioners and at the same time, im sticking to my opinion, i do want to abuse the legal precedence, the legal guidelines that are present in this case. So that may be a no however you may say other things. Thats a possibly right. So what is your decision with that . I think what we can do is take it up to the top before any plans are made. And we go from there, we have the location of the Property Line. There may be a carve out, pgc may be happy with just having access. The height of the fence, we stick to the planning code because planing code does not have a specific height for fences. Again thats something that i can take up. Thank you for that commentary. Therefore commissioners, i hate continuing because that continues the pain. I hear from dpw that the answer is not no, i want to take it higher, thats the gas, that would be a legal issue. Im hearing flexibility. And i would like to hear the next chapter rather than no. I would be open minded and suggest that we follow dbws direction and come back and here their final answer. Commissioner lemberg, youre next. Because its fair, it may be continue to when were all here. If thats close, thats good idea, if there is only four of us tonight, an independent reason. On that basis, i think may 29th isnt enough time. To get all of this time. I know im not here on june 12th. But june 26th it appears that were all here and thats six weekishes are the parties available. Lets ask a question first of the appellant because that would be good manners, since were dealing with her life. Can we ask you an important question. Will your life be compromised if we kicked this to the 29th so we can help you resolve this issue . I would not see that as a severe injustice. There is a couple of points i want to share with the board if possible, that were not brought up that i think are important when we look at this case if possible, almost point of order. Normally, i would say no, because im an hard ass, sorry for that language. Ill let the president make that decision. Yeah, we did have the briefing and the presentation, by both parties, so what i would say is if we do go the way the votes go towards continuance, that would be the right time to present those materials whether in your brief or next presentation. And there will be a brief and presentation for both . Yes. . Flt i think we can leave it to the discretion of the parties. You know. The third round of briefing. We can, we have the flexible to allow a two or three minute update from both parties, if there is a problem. If there is not a problem, then we will not have to have that. Lets hope that we can resolve your issues. I was going to make a motion. Mr. Rivera, are you going here . I may be out but somebody else will be here. Can i make one comment. Okay. I think what, something that is surfacing is playing whackmo with these are not going to be a good approach. So i think, i just want to say, julie we should talk about maybe asking the department to present it today to give us a presentation on neighborhoods where there is a known issue. Obviously were not policy making body but there is another body in this body that is, so we can potentially consider that Going Forward. I would recommend that maybe for a future date but what is before you, is the denial of this permit. Yeah, i was not suggesting that happen right now ill reach to you online. Do we have a motion. I move to continue this matter to the june 26, 2024 meeting so the department of public works can work with the Property Owner and get in, im struggling. To accept certain acceptions to their order dated december 11, 2023. Okay, thank you. Okay so on that motion. President lopez. Eye. Commissioner transvina. Aye. Commissioner swig. Aye. Matter continues to june 26th, and lets clear, are we going to allow three minutes of briefing. Three minutes of briefing and comment. Okay and briefings are submitted. Can we take a break. Well take a break until 6 58. Thank you for your patience. 100 mission l. L. C versus San Francisco public works, subject property 100 Mission Street and 5 trees are on the same property on 60 spaoers street. Appealing on issuance to 1100 mission llc of a public works order, denial of an application to remove ten street trees. The applicant seeks removal for to address water intrusion into the building. Well hear from the appellant first. Welcome, you have seven minutes. Good evening, commissioners. Here on the Property Owner. We would first to acknowledge for working for us on this and were happy to accommodate the larger boxes that theyve requested. Since weve been able to reach an agreement, im going to try to limit my remarks but i would like to explain why these trees need to be replaced. 88 sphere or 1100 mission or 60 sphere is an aging Office Building with constructed in 1966. As shown on the proposal to renovate the property and create a more groundwork experience, they will add a floor cafe, complete a major renovation, to create tenant and construct a new level restaurant. Providing resort is a key aspect of the plan for this property. With the goal of enticing people. Most of these amenities would be added to the basement which would include sauna rooms and gym. As detailed in our brief, the has been on water. There are visible signs of water intrusion as you can see here. Given the scale of Improvement Plan for the basement, its critical that ownership implement a permanent solution to the water inclusion problem. The approach was recommended by Water Proofing experts thornton tomas eddie, it installs a membrane under the sidewalk and into the interior of the tree wells. The existing trees must be removed so they can be applied to the inside of the tree wells. They have advised that providing outside of the tree wells at the roof of the basement would not prevent further water intrusion from the street so would not create further degradation. In the success of this project, creating an active and welcoming front. The repolicement of existing trees is being perceived because creating a long Water Proofing solution are critical to the long term integrity of the property and the sidewalk. The owner will replace 8 of the 10 trees. Two cannot be replaced due to sphere. This project all the in the council reinvitation effort and has support from the chamber of commerce and union. We respectfully ask that the board of appeals approve the replacement and allow this project to move forward. And we have the Landscape Architect on zoom to ask any questions. Thank you, i dont see any questions, so you can be seated. We will now hear from the bureau of forestry. You have seven minutes. Speaker good evening, im the acting superintendent just want to share a bit wond what is written in our brief. But the timeline is the applicant spoke to our inspect or and explained the need for Tree Replacement. And that we would have trees, and triggered the protest which resulted at the hearing. At the hearing, the and our hearing officer was sent to that and listened to a lot of Public Comment. And the hearing officer a neutral person able to make the decision and then their review of it felt like the removal should be denied. And when i look at the hearing decision, i see that we didnt really explain why there and you can see, in their brief that they didnt know why either. That was a note for us to be in a hearing order what is the rational and i would like to share we were responding, what we knew at the time and the information presented to us. Now with the, the more expensive background and a lot of expert input on the necessity of Water Proofing both inside and outside of the tree planters under the sidewalk. That we get and we have negotiated with them about a luxury Tree Replacement size. I also noted that muni signal pool is buried and i did reach out to mta and forester did earlier in the process. But i would be curious to hear if they would be willing to remove that light or signal infrastructure. You cannot see it, it does not really benefit anybody and it would be great to maintain a tree in that location. Thats an option. But we do look tito save an present and preserve that opportunity. But, im available for any questions and thanks for the opportunity to share. Thank you, Vice President lemberg and then commissioner swig. What is the quote unquote requirement for all of these trees to be removed . There is no ob sense of protest, in fact, we got more comment. What, ive seen the swaoem attic, ive seen the the inpraoution. From my intrained eye, it looked liner, so i want to see from a buffs trained. Im not an engineer, i dont have the Water Proofing expertise but if somebody needed to quote the inside of those, i would understand the need to take the tree out. If you were to try to do anything to the inside of those planters, its really impossible because jam packed with roots, its fascinating how many trees are supported by a four by four planter. And its not something that you can seal, you would just drive buy and assume that these are growing in the ground, thats what it look like. And to peel back the layers and see how much infrastructure. If there were a way to do this and retain the trees, i think we would have gone with that and supported that. I think it would be feasible for the applicant to do. Okay, and then my next question, is regarding the replacement, proposed replacement plan. This body has been educated by your colleague mr. Buck several times, on several cases, regarding the necessity of replacement plans to account for the kind of breath of existing trees. And it looks again to my untrained trees. For the location that theyre in specifically. Does this plan account for that and if so to what extent . Sure. Proposing to remove trees, the requirement would be to replace with a 15gallon tree which is really small. the fact that theyre seeing they would put more. When you put in a small tree, it establishes quickly and often passes up those bigger trees. But the coverage gives you the benefit of trees. But the 36inch boxes are stress for that, transplanting process and can take a while to get established and growing. At the time f planting, we will have a lot more trees to start with. And the, the another benefit of that, which i mentioned is that it was likely to be vandalized as a 30inch box, youve got the larger die am meter box. It would be another benefit to have that. More specifically is the number of trees, that are to, there is ten trees being removed accountser i forget, how many replacement trees are there . 8 replacement. And its just that, there is no in lieu . We dont have the replacement, one to one but in the cases where they cant plant, we do require a in lieu fee and we use that to plant a tree somewhere else. Where is the in lieu fee in this case . There is a minimum but there is also, we also, i can check but i think thats noted in here. Yeah, im looking it up here. If we do approve this, we would be losing, you know, well, no were losing alle of them that are very large and very established and i dont want to lose, i want, i personally want an equal Playing Field if were going to approve a plan like this, because there is major opposition to removing them at all. Well to speak to your concern, one fascinating about these trees theyre effectively turned into bonsai trees. The root volume, these trees if we were growing in regular soil would be many times larger but constrained by the soil volume available. But they do have the side to the street that is open so theyre getting a little more rooting, depending on what they run into there. I think the 32inch box is the closest they can get. This is really maxed out and thats what prompted our interest into seeing if the mt a would allow us to save one of those sites, because if that signal light is not being used anymore, perhaps it would be eliminated and we could preserve that planting site. Okay. And my last question is, we have seen the photos but we have not seen connection between the 8 to 10 trees to be removed and the inclusion areas. I dont know what affects what, do you have any inside into that . Thats a question i should ask for the appellant. At least from growing trees, ive seen where if you have a tree and a planter, you want to have a something that catch that water or grow it in a patio or the water that comes out at the bottom of the pot just goes off into the ground. And if theyre going to have a jim or sauna, its not a location where you can have some water. If there are other locations, i would be curious, i think thats what prompted the concern. Thank you, ill pass to commissioner trasvina. Thank you, i just have three questions, one is about the departments position. Can you remind me was the position to oppose this . We approved the removal and then it was protested and the hearing officer made the decision to deny the removal. So when the hearing occured, your department was in favor of the removal . We spoke in favor of removing them, yes. And subsequently, the trees are larger than there were at the same time or are they the same trees . Theyre the same, theyve been kept at the same size for decades now. No, the replacements. I dont know that theyve been selected like the individual trees. We determine the species though. I thought you were going to allow the 16 inch. Sorry. Oh the eyes requirement went from 24 inch to agreed upon. so it was not included in the order. So thats why i did ask our team what happens and they explained it was because of the input received at the hearing at the hearing officer was persuaded. Potentially the work that we had done while preserving the trees. And that being said, about this, research into and the ones being removed do you have any idea how long they would survive . What is their expected life span . Thats a good question. So perhaps 40 years old now, and we had one resent failure on the corner where ficus failed. These trees are defect where a tree would have a taper, and these trees were going straight into the ground which is result of restricted area and roots. And as a result of the constraints, theyre maxing out what they can do in that space. Very tightly packed roots and overtime, well probably have failures, but, its not a reason to remove them, we want to just leave these trees to grow in perpetuity and continue to care for them with our street program. Are you saying that they would grow in perpetuity as in forever . If there were no storms but there is not set life span to the trees. They could succumb to damage or Something Like that. Shouldnt we expect that in some number of years, that the new trees would outlast the new trees . So were extending the greenery by doing a replacement now . I think were resetting the timer essentially. Because the Water Company said the new membrane would last about 30 years. So weve got 30 years to grow 30 trees again and Water Proofing again. And we may be having similar discussion and replacing them again. I think thats one of the challenges of growing and containr urban environment. Its a compromise to get trees and that built unfa structure. Thank you. Commissioner swig. Thank you. Have you guys have come to an agreement, why is this not a housekeeping matter as the first item on the hearing . You all came to an agreement, is there any dispute between the city and the appellant . Is there a process question, im not sure. Like you were here in the first item and it was a housekeeping item. Oh im sorry, i understand. And why are we having a hearing on this when there is a agreement and a deal was cut between the department and the appellant . Understood. So this case is in your jurisdiction so were coming to you saying, hey, weve gone back and forth on our position on our trees and this is our our latest position, so were laying this in front of you for your final. Did they not hear them say exactly to what they greed to and you agreed to. Why is it not over . I could not speak to that. So heres are some questions that are raised in my mind. First of all, i. Its nice that the trees are being replaced. Why is the burden of the and by the way, im in the business of commercial real estate and i have a few buildings in San Francisco i should be deciding of the Property Owner if i was not biased but im not going to. Why is the burden being placed on the city . Why is thed see being compromised because the property does not want to do an internal something internally that they could see seal their building internally . This is not settling well with me. I dont know that i can speak to that, that would be better answered by somebody else. Item number 2, what strikes me here is im very, again, its very add measurable and admirable and all that stuff that the Property Owner is doing all of those improvement and i applaud that with the commercial office business, its real tough right now, 35 percent in the city vacancy and people are losing a lot of money and people are losing buildings and its really really tough. That being said and we want to keep people in buildings as council described. However the results is really a means to be able to do a grander improvement and enhance the value of the property significantly as as a result of an investment no doubt. And i dont understand why the department is bearing all the, the negativity . You know, by allowing this, by saying, you guys try first and water proof the inside of your building and continue on with your improvements. The paradine is, oh city, you pull your tree, you fix your pot outside so we can go ahead and improve our buildings which is more beneficial to the Property Owner than it is to the the taxpayers from my view. Sxl allowing this, that 36inch box is the compromise . Why is the city not asking more. When the city is going to do a big gigantic favor to the over. I happen to be three blocks away on sphere street in my office residency. I know that the storms of last year, where god created havoc, there is missing trees all over the place. This would be a great opportunity to filet few empty holes in the street canopy. Why is this a simply well replace the two, because the two that were not replacing, infringe on the wall. Why is the burden being placed in the city rather than the Property Owner with this improvement . Thats what concerns me . Can you give me an answer . Were going to hear from counsel on this, were going to hear from counsel on this. I do want to be careful, i dont see it as favors being traded, i think if they have to do a project they have a justification for it. We consider what we can do to retain the trees. And the compromise, the larger. But the trees that are there now are not very large, theyre medium size, i would describe them. And thed boxes would be smaller. But to reach that height in a come of years. But the trunk diameter would take more years to expand to that. I think for me, it seems neutral, that were losing the trees, replacing them. The trees that are being deleted will be planted elsewhere. But there is not an opportunity to keep these trees. I dont know that there is anything that we can do to perceive that avenue. They would be responsible for establishing the trees and after establishment, we would accept responsibility for them in perpetuity. Is it establishment and ambiguity or threeyear period . Minimum three years. If they called us out to say, this is your responsible, no we would assess whether they establish or not. Lately its taken for with the weather. If the tree was poorly watered, we would be able to require them to start over with another tree even if that was three years of watering for them. And technicality question related to what are the rules. When we had the parnasis tree issue, when there were going to be mature trees, because it would incrude. It was not a one to one replacement and you just braupt the circumference of tree. Why is not circumference not entering your conversation with regard to Tree Replacement. Really the circumference triggers another requirement which you measure the circumference and youre replacing trees based on the size of the tree trunk. In our code its a Construction Projects like this. Sorry for interrupting, pernasis was not illegal. Right. They came in here, they said we need to remove the trees, we had a discussion about that and we allowed them to remove the trees. But the mandate from buff, was well, those are those are mature trees, when theyre mature trees, that triggers not a one to one that triggers a replacement based on circumference and with that, i believe my i think there were 8 trees. Yield 250,000 worth of new additional trees within the city at large starting in the immediate neighborhood. So when does the circumference trigger . It does trigger and it was suggested why in this case are mature trees going one to one. For the pernasis case, the trees were assessed for their value and thats how we got to quarter Million Dollars in lieu fees and that funded planting many replacement trees. For construction it would not be required, it would have been required if you would have damaged them through trimming to the point that they would have to be removed. Okay, a final question, you alluded to the fact that mta has a non essential box in a spot. In my opinion. If we were going to move forward tonight and reach an agreement to do what youve all suggested, how do we push that that issue to mta so another tree can be placed back on our street where we are still at least 30 percent below our tree canopy. I cannot commit. I reached out to them, i know they shared it with the team that would make that decision. I have not heard back. But we would revise this plan. Thank you, commissioner lemberg, ill let you take it from here. I want to answer, why were not hearing this from post matter. This is a new hearing that we have before. For the post, the they emailed and said we reached an agreement, this is it and i didnt hear from anyone else. Thank you for all of your claire fick aclarifications, i learn something new every time i sit here. I just wanted to go back briefly to something i thought i heard you say, this is the time where i wish we had a Court Reporter around. Did i understand correctly that the trees that are being removed are going to be replanted elsewhere . If they cant be replaced onsite, they trigger in lieu fee, and i got a text. And the fee could be 2431 per tree. So well use that money to plant a tree and establish it elsewhere, two trees. I understand about the in lieu tree. I thought thats what i heard you say and i was unclear. They would go back to the water proved planters in the sidewalk. Hes talking about the existing trees. Youre putting new trees, youre putting out ten, were replacing them with 8. The ten that are being removed, did i understand that you said that relace thed. The trees themselves they would not be able to transplanted somewhere. Okay, thank you. President lopez. Thank you for your presentation. Thank you for sharing the amount of the fee, how those fees feel low to me especially for a project of this nature. Im wondering, is that ever, mean assessed, or assessed of a size of a project . Yeah, good question. Its, its not. We had our cost analyzed and we look at the cost of the trees. The labor to plant the tree and the on going labor for to us water them quaoekly for three years to establish and thats how they arrived at the in lieu fee. Thank you, no further questions, you can be seated. Is there anyone else in the room that would like to provide Public Comment on this item. Okay, please come up to the microphone. You have three minutes. Speaker thank you, im just a quick point, trees are living things theyre not deleted, when they are taken out, they die. The decision to appeal, denial the removal what i dont understand, in what universe, does the that hold for weight than the directors decision. Its nothing new, but if it is new, there should be a new process. I want to note that the department admitted theyre not Construction Experts which leaves us the only the developers that this needs to happen. As an aside, in deed not called for by law but its a action plan. Whether trees are young or old or growing in soil or boxes, its still a net loss. And ill note that more than two years ago, we made a settlement in this room, that made a solution on this basin issue and that still has not been implemented by the city. Additionally, what message does it send to the public . I was at the underlying hearing, i got a copy of the decision when it was issued, the decision was no, you dont get to remove the ten trees. And then i figured it out, later on that public works just pulled a 180 and fell in line with the developer. There are a lot of people in the city who are weary of corruption and have witnessed, weve seen the headlines. As somebody that people identify as tree guy, my email was filled. I dont think so. But what that tells me, is the questions go to this inexplicable actions. I believe that they may ask for of this developer and help green our charge ~ thank you, there any other Public Comment in the room . Okay, with move to zoom. Please go ahead, you may have to press star6 to unmute yourself. Hello commissioner, rincon neighbors across the street from the site. I totally agree with joshs comment. Mr. Swig, this is not housekeeping. The public does not like to see trees mowed down like this especially for flimsy reasons. They held a hearing and they were not vineds these trees need to be killed. There is an awful lot of assumptions being made here. You are presented with no expert testimony, these healthy trees, have caused any serious problems. You have not one photo date or report on flooding or serious water intrusion. Not caused by these trees. All you have are photos of staining, just what you would expect in any 58yearold basement under the sidewalk which is adjacent to the street gutters and drain. No serious evidence. I would like to talk about precedence, 9 years ago i appeared before this body on appeal almost exactly the same. Enter trees over the basement and the building, it was also redecorating their sidewalk store front. Which they thought was gods gift to design and they didnt want the big trees in the way. So they came up with every excuse imaginable to cut down the tree. And guess what, the board of appeals did not buy it, just the department is not buying it now. Mr. Swig and others denied it. Muni signal is not important. So those two trees do not need to be removed. I believe there is space for two more trees in the northeast corner. So lets get 12 trees going here. You can also ask them to do something and remove them. Thank you, mr. Ozgood. We will now hear from bunny, please go ahead. Hello, can you hear me . Yes, you can speak up a bit. One, i wish i was as eloquent, im not a struck tower Structural Engineer but i am an engineer. It seems like the contractors are trying to minimize cost and its easy for them not to delete them. Theyre not being considered here. I will also say that even if theyre not, willing to do the work to preserve these trees, why are they doing for the Climate Action plan . Even if there are not basin, there is present for planting similar trees in the neighborhood or elsewhere in the city. Agree with the other commenter that in that lieu fee seems ridiculously low, because i think you can only plant one tree. Around the 36inch box trees, that is giving a false impression paws that takes them longer to establish that it is better for the tree to start with a smaller one and let them dproe. Try to preserve them as a first step. It takes a lot of work to establish the first tree. And then, i think commissioner swig was asking a lot of really good questions about the motivations of the bureau to change their mind on the decision and, some of the answers from the bureau about the in lieu fees versus what is being considered . It just does not make sense to an outside person and it, i think the question of like yeah, is there something shady going on, its really does not make any sense to an outside observer. So food for thought, thank you so much. Thank you, we will now hear from john nolte, please go ahead you have three minutes. First the issues by wufnt commissioners, theyre not showing. I would not see basements that were shown. But how many there were actually then there. And where theyre located because you know, again, they said the buildings is 48 years old. And also if they do it, they would have to do it again. Its like a wash, youre not doing anything, youre doing a temporary fix for 30 xwraerz. 30 xwraerz. 30 years. Its just a temporary and then you have to put another set in 30 years. I also have an issue with you know, ive lived in buildings and i know, ive seen the interiors of, of basements of buildings and i know that water comes in multiple ways. And just so we have the tree bases that the water is coming from, is ludicrous. So therefore by saying its only that is going to fix the problem is not correct when there would be multiple sources from where this water is coming from where the building or outside the building coming in to the basement and also because they want to use a parking lot and turn it into a faucet space. They want to do the cost of the community and not getting our fair shake at additional trees and necessary of business approval. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Michael nolte please go ahead. Yeah, so i just had two comments because i agree with all the other Public Comments that have been said. That came to the point here. If the permit, i would luke to have the City Attorney tell us why, the perm ut process needs to be can the permit process be start because it was already dealt with. And i would say that the seainger needs to uphold the denial of the permit period. Thank you. Thank you, is there any further comment . Seeing none, well go to rebut the al. So the, the Water Proofing experts are Structural Engineers so theyre the most qualified to make the recommendations that they made, you have all of those theyre on the website. The tree base sit on the roof and the basement runs under the sidewalk. So the Structural Integrity is also important. The solution is being a mon lithic barrier so it could stretch into the curve inside the tree wells all the way into the facade of the building protecting any water from coming in between the street and where the building starts including these tree wells. That will protect the property and the basement and the sidewalk. The consultants here give a 30life here, because no can foresee. But our understanding is the most permanent solution that anybody can have. This is the solution being proposed because this is a solution that will give us the best shot of protecting the property for as long as anything can protect this property. This owner is looking to make an older investment and make drastic improvements to the realm, they take the trees seriously. Thats why they agree to the larger tree size than before and we hope that you allow them to protect this asset. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. We will now hear from the department. Mr. Crawford you have three minutes to address the board. I think i covered things pretty extensive i dont have any rebuttal items. Thank you, i dont see any questions at this time. You can be seated. Commissioners this matter is submitted. All right, commissioners well start at the other side of the dais with commissioner swig. Im not sure that the city got there full and just. Not going to happen. And now weve gone to the other pool, where its going affect on the wealth, the benefit of our en vestment which is going to enhance the value of my building. And weve got to figure out figure out to stop water intrusion. And for that, there does not seem to be enough of a price. Im struggling because i didnt get a satisfy tee answer, you know this stuff pretty well. Can i ask for your help please. Mr. Clipp you were actively involved in the parnasis heights what is the thing in applying the from your view, youre experiencing this and youre also a lawyer, you know, you dont forget stuff, the measuring of girth to set the penalty versus the one for one issue, especially when mature trees are involved. How did that kick in . Give me your point of view. With the underlying decision, in that case, they hadnt done that, they hadnt done the appraisal so the agreement that we reached was to follow the law to the extent that it could be applied there. And do an appraisal and thats whier where we got the 30. And nick, i hope im saying this right, the circumference when wore talking about the area, thats not law, thats a city recommendation, if you could and what the plan called for was for the city to create and implement policies of preservation in development and infrastructure and only when trees could not be served, to apply. Thank you for setting the table, you know your stuff. So nick, in this case, was that action was not an appraisal done to establish a value and why are they being, why are mature trees which are healthy which are can be sustained, they do not provide any public harm, theyre pretty good trees. Why did the department not take the replacement route . I wish i knew this when you asked me initially, but colleague massaged me since you asked that and clarified that it was a development trigger. So the pro nasis project was considered development and in this case, this is considered maintenance where theyre doing building maintenance. Okay, thank you. Now you just stumbled into it and walked into the poop in the street. Im trying to clean that up. This is not a maintenance project. This is why i brought out the point that i did earlier. They said t theyre going to enhance the building, they said it. Theyre going to put in all sorts of school stuff. This is continue maintenance, theyre building, theyre not expanding envelope which is why planning is not here. You meader it, a wellness to enhance the quality of the building. So this is not maintenance, the roof is falling in because the trees are leaking and we got, we have a construction defect and we have to succinct, i would not be bringing this up. This is new development, this is to enhance, an existing building which does exist. This is not i will not buy into it. I own part of a building that was built in the 1920s, thats an old building. Given this testimony, they said it. Why a criteria about maintenance being applied to a Development Situation and why is not the assessed value of the trees being taken into consideration for replacement . Yes. So there have been a number of projects where i thought they would have a development trigger but its a specific checklist that in this case, they didnt trigger one of those requirement. Can you read us the development trigger. I can share it but i dont have it. Im not chris buck but i could share that with you separately. It does not do me any good if its not during this point. We have to have that information at hand because this is the difference between, if these, if these trees, i dont know what these trees are worth because im not ann arborist, i know theyre mature and healthy and i know that there is new construction internally, not outside an envelope that is triggering the need, not a maintenance thing. Not just one on one and what is the Development Checklist, i didnt see it references i believe in the hearing before and you didnt bring it today. How can i, this is my job right now to advise where i stand to my fellow commissioners. How can i tell my fellow commissioners black and white, i think that we should do xy orzbecause, fillin the blafrpgs. Because a Development Checklist has been, the development has not triggered, and but you cant give me that information. If we can consider development, i think its in our interest as a bureau, because it trigger that. I know in the review when we accepted the application, we saw to see if it met the criteria. So there is, it would have been caught right at the beginning. Was it 2400 a tree . Right, so if the a phrase al comes back on the 8 trees and its 40,000 or its 50,000, or 60,000, then weve walked out of here making a big mistake. Okay, because the 2400 goes in the trees being asked to be replaced. And because of the maturity of the other trees, that goes into the other fund examine that replaces the other trees that were blown down. This is what bothers me, im not comfortable moving this forward because i think the department of public works may have errored what we heard was a hearing that said no the trees should not come down. And that was the hearing offer, you came back and cut a deal and were going to do one for one, but is it because the Development Checklist . Oh i dont know what it is, i dont have it. How can we make a decision to support the removal of these trees when we dont have the back up to say, according to you know, fillin the blanks. Ive got a problem with this. The City Attorney would like to weigh in. Any further questions. Im done but City Attorney wants to. Receiver. The representative from actually this way nz receiver. My understanding this is a tree removal under public works code section 806. Im not familiar with the pronounced case and the code section there but illinois recite what is required when somebody wants to remove a tree. And i will say that case may have revolve around the trees, where you get into other sort of issues. Im familiar with that. So under, the code if the Department Grants a tree removal permit, it should require that a street tree have equivalent replacement value than the one removed or in pose a in lieu fee unless it makes finding for waving and modifying this requirement. Value thats what the code requires. I think the ambiguity here and the problem here as representative from dpw stated, this is the in lieu fee is because and the ability to move these trees out is because its a maintenance issue. Tied to a Greater Development point at which point, the gentleman said there is a Development Checklist and clearly that this past Development Checklist. If you had a copy of the checklist would be very helpful and we can clear up this ambiguity quickly. The problem is that the checklist is not available so, so he can recite chapter and verse, why my suspicious or my considerations should be tossed. So i know what you just said and it did not answer any my questions. We dont know the ambiguity between the maintenance fees and he didnt answer it. So im not going to hog anymore of this time and im going to hear what the commissioners say on this subject. Lets continue to Vice President lem bellinger. Lemberg. Thank you, im fully supportive of any motion that might be made to increase the number of trees here. I think that this is almost criminally under here, considering the type of development, status of trees currently. Im open to that as well, assuming we dont, i think there needs to be additional things added on to the agreement. Although it does seem like the developer have come to some sort of groement that does not mean that we have to accept the agreement and i appreciate the line of questioning from commissioner swig. I dont feel like in a good position to present an outcome but thats where i stand on this. I just have a couple of points and i share the concerns of my fellow commissioners but i have great hesitancy of making a decision based on what weve read and what we have heard. I think we runt risk of making the wrong decision in part because the department has not prepared, has not given us enough information. One of the witnesses said what happened to the officer . We should have that. Whatever it is, in writing, we should have that. And what is the responsibility of the department to uphold that decision. We are making a decision based whether the grantor deny an appeal to a decision that we dont really know its there. The department has agreed with 100 Mission Street people on a decision. So im concerned about that and im concerned about run away feeling about wow, they can just pay more. This is not the era where we say,we are running the risk of putting a pinata and hitting it. It does not sound from the City Attorneys res tation of the board that we have the ability to go beyond this, except as you elicited from the from the witnesses and the parties, its development not maintenance. And im not, we heard the same testimony, i didnt hear the important for 100 mission that was development only. I read in the record in the on page 9. That it was to share the Structural Integrity and the slab sitting below the sidewalk and forming the roof of the basement. In which case we dont know what rules apply and whether the development decides if it is maintenance and development which rules do they use . And given the further information, im, im encouraged by the but the creativity of my colleague, ill be happy to hear what they have as ideas. But my preference is to have another hearing and have this before us and get some of the answers that we have asked actual low get the answers rather than try to get what the answers are based upon what we have available. Ill chime in, before i do a point of information for teebehr, am i correct that we could not mandate a higher fee in the situation since the department does not have that power, is that correct . It would have to be a volunteer agreement . The powers have constricted by what the code would allow the department to do, thats correct. Im looking at the code here and there are separate provisions for development projects, that what youre referencing . Okay, im trying to help the board for whatever road. This is a permit for removal for what the code there requires. Exactly however, i didnt bring anything of this up. First and for most, i was around when we denied a similar project, period. And that was one case this is another. This is denovo. Buff weve had a similar request and i was a voteri actually forgot about that until tonight. So it is denovo. The issue, i think im struggling with what commissioner transvina is struggling with, an insufficient presentation by dbw. Im not being mean and nasty and not yelling at you, but its not complete. The hearing officer said, no you cannot rment trees. Which is consistent with our activities here . Okay, then, and then, same concern is commissioner transvina. Why did the commissionr officer say that . Unfortunately, you didnt bring that in. So were here within an empty box where we really need some information. Can i just, i feel youre going twice, can i go once before you go twice. If i can just finish. She asked the question. The second piece of it. Do you mind if i go, i just had a very narrow question about what we had the power to do, so i would like to speak the order of the speaker and see if we can reach a resolution here. I think the points about, the lack of the hearing officers, record, whatever is available, i think thats a valid point. And that categoryization is something that i heard. Stated that deserves to be reviewed. With that in mind, and i see Vice President s lembergs hand up here so we can go to you in a moment. What i would like to understand is if there is availability particularly on the part of the permit holder for future meeting if we continue to this matter would you have availability for june 26 or july 17th to come back to us . President lopez you may want to ask, they have the order, they may not have a separate decision outlining the basis. Thank you. Are you available those two dates . And is dpw available . So i would move that we continue to the 26th and if the represent from dpw can come to the microphone on this question of whether there is any further record other than the decision from the hearing officer on this matter that may be provided to the board. I dont think there is a separate document with that information, i think its the, the order that had that. But if we have it, well well provide that, we can ask for this process behind that. And share that with you. Thank you, that would be my motion and also just for the benefit of of both parties if we end up in a place na is similar to the process i think we feel the city got a bad deal here. With clarified that we dont have the power to mandate more trees. A three for nine trade, that leads to this commissioner feels like more in line with what the city should be receiving in order to protect the canopy. With that, Vice President lemberg. Thank you, i wanted to say first, say we do have the order from public works, its kind of scant as far as what was presented. I read it before the hearing and its, it is very unclear as to what the reasoning is. But supported it and all things were denied and thats about it. Try to get answered im not more, you know, ultimately, we have to jurisdiction of this. Whatever we want, regardless of what the hearing officer decided and you know, ultimately this order is stant as far as detail and i know, if the hole purpose of continuance is just to get potential testimony from the hearing officer as to what their what their rational was, but i think were missing information here. I just want to make sure that if were continuing this, that were going to get more information and not just kicking the can down the road. And im not totally sure to ensure that, so that were actually presented with more useful information next time we make a decision. What is would like to see is an assessment. And im for getting as to the basil replacement would be for these trees. I would like to see what that before this. And if were thinking to an alternative to what has been presented. That would be useful. But past that, im i want to make sure that were setting ourselves for success. One thing i would like to add to the list, a resolution, more aggressive from just dpw and saying how about dealing the street light equipment. You have six weeks to resolve this. Going to mta and getting a yay or nay. On that box. Well you know, its not that difficult. Hey man give me an answer, i saw this, you can tell maybe. With your permission, i like to add that to the list so we can get the final tree box. Accepted if i can also request that we get further written testimony from the Property Owners to the issue of whether its maintenance, or whether that matters. So thats a motion, i think im missing a few items, so its clear for the parties. I understand you want to get information as why the removal was denied by the officer. And that meets them in the form of any written materials. And or comment collected. Okay. And secondly, i understand commissioner swig wants an answer from the mta about the signal which affects the tree at the corner. Are you asking whether the signal can be removed . This was part of the that was openended, we think that we can get a tree back in that tree basin. We phoned mta, they have not responded. What i would like is then to reso many that issue so they can come back and say, mta said yay or nay. Okay, thank you. And third, i understand that you want written testimony from the permit holder or excuse me, the appellant who is also was denied, regarding whether this project. Maintenance versus development. Its the issue folks done by commissioner swig. As to whether this false on the development or the maintenance. Whether the Property Owner, i like the Property Owners views whether its maintenance or development or matters. Okay, was there anything else . Yes, there is one more item from buff for them to share the checklist the Development Versus maintenance checklist. Okay and sir are we going to allow new briefing, three pages, limited exhibits. Vice president lemberg. Can we add a replacement of the value. Is that supportive . Thank you step to the microphone. There is a basil area replacement where you can measure, the basically the area of the the trunk how much youre removing and how many replacement trees would be required to offset that. It can be a lot just two became nine, you can see like that multiplier affect. The benefits that is its providing and come up with a number of valuation, our tree inspectors are qualified to do that, we can provide that, so i think, if it would help to provide total appraisal values of these trees to put that in a moment and then separately to tell you how many inches of basil area these trees have we can put that in the table as well. I think more info is better. That works for me. Okay. If i i may my request for information from the appellant seems to have been met by the confusion for the appellants attorney. Can i ask her to express maybe there is concern. No, thank you. I just want to clarify on the question of maintenance. Can you speak into the microphone. Yes, the question of maintenance and development, it seems like what this board is trying to get at, is there grounds, if the checklist could potentially put this project in category Development Versus maintenance or higher fees that could be collected to support Tree Planting elsewhere . Is that the goal of the question . Yes, it is thank you. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Are we ready . For the motion . Okay we have a motion from president lope toes continue this item to june 26 for the reasons previously indicated. That motion commissioner trasvina. Aye. Vice president. Aye. Commissioner swig. Aye. So that motion carries 40. And as i mentioned the party can submit a threepage brief its due thursday before 3 00 oclock p. M. This is appeal number 24, a li versus building inspection. Existing office space comply with nov number 2023this is regarding permit 00242093 and we will hear from the appellant first. Welcome, you have zen minutes seven minutes and we will not start the clock until he is set up. Thank you for being here and hearing me at this hour. I daoel with anxiety and panic attack, i try to make it short and not very painful. So i am appealing this permit that was issued recently that is suppose italy suppose to go to the director board of to the directors Board Hearing board. As i was promised, by inspect or kwame and i think, i want to start with just showing the computer . Computer please. Say that again. Yes, this is going through the fire wall. Of the ceiling of the common area. This is the size of the installation that actually only serves one unit. If you look at the document, that was submitted, its stated back in march 2015. Mechanical plan. To think as a history doing work without permit. Directors, i dont know if im saying it correct, forgive me. I was checking for the vision that when this hearing is going to be hearing so my voice can be heard. I have few emails that also is here if you would like to see them, i can just show you. That would be that would be exhibit 3. This is was asking them if there is awe date because every time i was asking when this hearing is going to be, they said its yet to be scheduled. Last time i checked the permit was issued in february of this year, which im sure it was amount in the document that would stand out, i think that would be exhibit. Number 4. This is the permit that was issued. I think it was the gentleman that i was talking to. They said the permit has been issued and its done and i cant do anything. And thanks to the board of appeals office, i was well educated that actually i have time to appeal this. Permit. Im looking at the request of mr. Olson. I dont understand how to go through the process of getting permit to properly start a project and going through the Planning Department. This is not the only one. Im looking at the date of proposal it is the date issued for estimate was, december first of 2014 and Expiration Date on it is march of 2015. And the acceptance that i see here its, march 11 of 2015 which passed the date of documents that it was submitted. I know that going back to. Sorry. Sorry, ive been at the hospital all day and i have difficulty to focus, im a service i deal with my own issues. Notice of violation was issued by inspect or behrgum. Which is going to be on exhibit. You have 30 seconds left. There was violation which also happened to disappear, mr. Behrgum canceled his own notice of violation and said that after. Thank you, that its time. Thank you, we do have a few questions Vice President lemberg and then commissioner tras vina. Thank you for all the time that you put into this and we appreciate you being here tonight. Thank you so much. I want to, i want to try to narrow down a little bit, because the permit you appealed is for the legalization of the installation of a heat pump that serves a Ground Floor Office space. I assume you live in this building as well. Yes, we do. So regarding the heat pump, its my understanding from reading the materials that you submitted, that it was installed back in 2015 and it was done without a permit. To make sure that it was installed properly. So my questions is what are your specific concerns that you have with this heat pump specifically. Yes, in 2015, i believe mr. Olson was only allowed to put a white box being installed being installed on the on the garage wall. Sxl that was the only thing that was the scope of work that was suppose to be done in the watering. And later all of these pictures, it was added. Taking space that does not belong to mr. Olson and they should have gone through the Planning Development and getting all the proper documents and its going to get legalized and after so many years. Also the contractor, so i think, if i go back to the exhibit one. This is the only thing that suppose to go. And all the the wiring is suppose to go all the way back. I just dont know the wiring is it coming from a commercial meter . Or residential . These are stuff that was never discussed. And residential unit. Nothing, and i know this is not we are not talking about other topic but when i say, you see work done over 150,000 without permit. And this is suppose to bring the revenue and also affects peoples life. Very recently, i cant really skip this part because recently we received an email with less than 24 hours notice. There is going to be removal of stucco in the building. And less than 24 hours. Later, we found out that also needs permit which its called no plan perm ut for removal. And after the work was done if you can just play the video right here. This is my neighbor apartment its leaking into his living room, hes a Senior Citizen hes not in good shape and i dont think he deserves that. And i brought this up, dbi has shown us double standard. This is tip of an iceberg. Im not trying to use this platform but this is something really bothered me. And going back to issuing the permit after nine years and submitting the plans on the 24 and waiting on the last day and i dont know why you didnt go to the director here so were suppose to go there and talk. So i, i appreciate everything youve said and i agree that the, that you know, a permit should have been obtained back in 2019 for this work. And also sounds like there may be, there may be other work that has been done without a permit as well. And certainly, you are within your rights to make further complaints to dbi about any of that alleged work that was done without allegedly without a permit. Im not making an opinion but if it was, dvi will investigate and if appropriate, issue a notice of violation on it. So i do, i do want to limit it just to to the heat pump because the only thing that we have the ability to do anything about. Absolutely thank you so much. I am done with my questions for now but there will be more time in rebuttal. Thank you, there are no further questions, you can be seated now. Sorry, can you repeat that. You can be seated now, no further questions youll have a chance to give more information during rebuttal. Thank you very much, i have the replay from the inspect or who refuse to come and inspect the same job youre talking about. Thank you, well now hear from the permit holder, the permit holder has a representative here. Hi son, walk hear you. Hi there. So thank you for your time tonight. And i would like to say that i appreciate mr. Shay fee bringing this to our attention. As of true by the hoa board at the time. I did hire a license contractor which is associated heating. He did install it per the plan, and part of that bid as detailed in what i submitted, included the contractor obtaining a permit for the work. Unfortunately they did not do that at the time. So i would like to apologize for that however i thought that was done and i should have followed up on it just to double check. For that i apologize, however once it was brought to our attention, we took prompt action, we have gone through every procedure that i understand is acquired. Weve had all the appropriate drawings submitted and i believe the permit was even issued until it was, suspended or reconsidered until this hearing. So, i submitted Everything Else that i had to say in writing and i dont want to waste anymore time unless there are further questions. Thank you for your time. Thank you, did you want to address the courts sir and if you can identify yourself for the record, please. Im new with this, good evening. Im richard ca tell im the owner of associated. I am the culprit, im responsible for obtaining the permit nine years ago. Cant give you an excuse but what happens within our office but the ball was dropped and a permit was not taken. Once we found about that, we stepped up and went right down to dbi take out a permit which is typically for our work and overthecounter, i was told because of the complaint, they wanted plans and the architect had plans that mirrored what work was done. We were issued a permit, i paid all the permit fees, i paid the fines, i paid the deny alted. I called for inspection and told that the permit was suspended pending this hearing. Everything that we did was aboveboard, it would be to mr. Selfies benefit to have an inspect or come out to take a look at the work, its been fitting, operating no complaints for nine years. All of a sudden there is an issue with the hb system. Ill ask you to reintate the permit so that we can get a city inspect or out and get dbi to take a look at it. And put it to bed so mr. Shafty with rest at night knowing it was done properly. All the duct work that was put in 26 beige galvanize which meets onefire rating, fire clocked and, everything will be aboveboard and everybody can rest easy. Thank you. Okay, thank you, i dont see any questions at this time. This is the permit have anything to add, you still have 3 minutes and 222 seconds. 22 seconds, mr. Olson. Nothing further. So we will now hear from the building of inspection. And mr. Prayer is with us this evening inperson. Welcome, good evening, president lopez. Im ne develop the deputy director. As you heard, we have a permit that has been pulled and were awaiting inspection. We issued the violation in time. And you just heard that the applicant followed through and obtained the permit. Is all of these photographs we saw today have yet to be verified and if they are in violation, we will get them corrected. Okay, thank you. I do not see president lopez has a question. Thank you for your presentation. Just for the benefit of the appellant and anyone watching, we heard testimony about other issues outside of the four corner of the permit in question. Who should residents get in touch with if they have other issues, you know similar to what has been described by the appellant . How can they bring that to your attention . Thank you about that. Code enforcement, wnt division is set up for sort of calls. As i look through the packet and studies shes other violations, i also noted that we had followed through with all of these at least the items that were brought up and we had followed through appropriately. With you but our Code Enforcement section is open for those calls. Thank you. No further questions. We will now move on to Public Comment. Is there anybody in the room to provide Public Comment . Okay. Is there anyone on zoom that would like to provide Public Comment for this case . Please raise your hand. Hes your husband . Yes. Okay so you can speak during rebuttal not during Public Comment. So we are moving on to rebuttal if there is no Public Comment. Okay, mr. Bruno please go ahead. You have three minutes. I briefly spoke, im mark bruno and i live near where this building is and im a tenant of many years in northridge. So the question was asked who should tenant go to and i just confirmed that the place to go is very simple, its housing inspections services, they call them his, its a department within dbi, its not the department that gets all the attention but one that deals with tenants and one of the reasons that ive been come here are con skens to inspection. No in fact, it tells you, this is not for private homeowners, its only for tenants and i deal with things like garage and leaking water and they do it all over the city. Thank you, is there any further comment . I dont see any you have three minutes and mr. Shafy, you can share that time. I want to say, when when they brought the architect to have a plan. All the dates in the plan are in 2024. So that means all the jobs was done back in 2015. No one, decided okay, if i caught a whole here, does it affect the integrity of the building in case of earthquake, anything is it okay to cut through. This is just, how it is, we cant even do that. And putting this giant fair conditioning system for 140 footage office where the size of this installation. I dont think its going fit proper in the office. There could have been a better solution without damaging common area that they dont own. So thats something and i would like to share this time if i possible. Okay, ms. Shafy, please go ahead. Thank you very much, good evening, and i praoern the opportunity to address you all. I think the major issue here is that in 2015, i was one of the Board Members who okayed this project and we were told in a walk through with sean that the only thing that would be a pennant would be a white box that you saw a picture of. It didnt include the ducts cutting through the fire wall and ceiling, that huge silver box. So something changed in the nine years since we originally signed the contract to the work being done now. So what were asking for is somebody come out and look at it and make sure that yeah, this is worth it and not originally and have all of that stuff hold back out and common area restored to its original state. Thats what were asking for. I do not see any questions at this time. So we will now hear from the permit holder. Mr. Olson, you have three minutes. Thank you, can you hear me now . Yes. Hi there so at the time of the work being done. I would like to clarify all of this system, the entire system was not installed in 2015. Any one piece cannot work with another. Further at the time, i dont know if ms. Shafy was present and others were in a cardboard mock up was instructed and hung from the ceiling. This is in a utility room not in a hallway that anybody has to see the unit. Thats why it was approved and why it was installed in this location at the time. Further there are similar heaters that service the residential above. Theyre individual heaters that are visible, this is in a garage area. This unit in question, that tk the mini split is in a utility room hence it being pull of utility equipment. Thank you are you finished . Yes. So we will now hear from dbi. Thank you, i just wanted to clarify mr. Graoun os, comment. Its because this in fact an office that is being affected which is not housing. It would be recovered to housing if it was a tenant issue with the unit. There is nothing more to add, you know, the one thing that puzzles me a little bit. With many splits its condenser the white box that you saw there. But im sure it was vetted and it will be inspected at the time. Thank you. I dont see any questions so commissioners this matter is submitted. Commissioners, any comments . Or motion . Sure i just, again i want to thank the appellant here. I do hope that youve gotten valuable information and hopefully and also some assurances that this in pact be inspected as parcel of this process after the appeal is complete because they dont have the ability to do it now. On that note i would like to move to deny the appeal that the permit was properly issued. On that motion . Aye. Commissioner trasvina. Aye. Aye. That motion carries 40 and the appeal is tend. Thank you, this is item number 8, mark bruno versus department of building inspection. And we will hear from the appellant first. Mr. Bruno. Mr. Bruno . As you know, ive been here 7 times, 7 times. On the same address which is sometimes called 472 union street. I live at 15 almost ally. Its important to understand that after this current permit was suspended, the building and permit owner, my landlord went just one day later after having knowledge of the suspension, how do we know that they had knowledge. And yet the following tai a saturday he did all of this work. There is more than one aspect its my request for suspension of the permit which occured on friday march 8th and that was two days after first speaker with alex here before you. Because in front of me, at my apartment, appeared can i have the overhead please. This was the form of notice, you can see, oh yeah, its upside down, perfect okay. This is what the items looked like that was quote notice giving to us. Im here to do your swayser because the city required it. Well the city may require it, mr. Buscati and this is part of your package. When doing a stairway that reegresses. You must notify the people that lives there. Its the law, it says right here in fact there is a whole page, if you atage that you received from me for this appeal, its called the, its application for work and its just three pages and one part of the application is a notice form. And it tells you here from the county that youre suppose to give this notice of a certain size and put it up a certain amount of time before you do this work and youll see, number 2 is adequate access are lacking for more than, 24 hours for more than 21 days. Well this work took four days, the fourth day being after it was suspended and on that forth day, it was a saturday. I had to go to the police, three times to get them to come to my approximately building, suppose ed low they were going to stop it from continuing this illegal work. And they were not able to and finally one of the Police Officers at about 3 was to able to do this. Perhaps you didnt know this, that there is always an inspect or and officer on duty. So a very nice man from dbi came and here youll see something that you dont have, something you dont have in your package which is the notice of violation that shows you right here, that says 39. March 9th thats a saturday. All the saturdays and sundays that the rest us have lives in and buildings in. It shows on the complaint and on the continuation of this work on a permit it shows that you it happened on the 11th on monday. Why . Why doesnt it show you that it was on a saturday. They did it on a saturday. Especially as called by the police at 2 30 examine took photographs of all of this. And the other thing the building got wrong which is very important to you as a practical matter. Mr. Bisyati tried to make this permit suspension moot, moot. The Building Department came out and said on the 13th of march, four days later after he did this work, site visit. I just need the overhead. Its on. Its on now, right. This is part of the banister, you can use it or look at it or pass it around if you would like. The point is there is no man sters on my floor in the building. So how can stairs be safe. Here are other photographs of the missing banisters, here it is right here, its missing. See, missing. He was stopped by mr. Bern my landlord who was working illegal. He continued for five and a half hours until he was stopped by dbi. So again, real issue is here is that, he was required to give notice. He didnt give notice. This is the 5th time the same person has done work. And only the first time hes been actually caught red handed by the department. Thank you. Thank you, we will now hear from the permit holder representative here today. Thank you, you have seven minutes. Thank you. Speaking on of the owner of the property. Mr. Biscete is a long time plane plane mechanic, he invested on properties and providing Affordable Housing at the lowest ends. So this is a passion for mr. Bisceti to take care of his tenants. This is just some puck tour and you can see a portion of the floorboard, part of the banister. There is a banister replaces, these are things that would not have triggered the requirement of obstructing, of notice for obstructing an exit. Im sure youll hear more about that. And youll also hear from a tenant who lives down here. Who has asked for a leader, linda asked that a friend read her letter into the record because she is elderly and a bit traumatized by the actions of mr. Bruno. The question really is, what is mr. Brusketi suppose to do . Hes trying hard to do the right thing and for his tenants enjoyment. He asked me to join his contractor, and a visit to the Code Enforcement division and the building inspection to discuss the notice of violation and make sure that were doing everything as the inspectors wanted to see them. At this time, he cant get a contractor because his contractor get harassed by mr. Bruno. I heard three different contractors tell me stories about being yelled at and chased off and being told that theyre trades men, its not their job to deal with that kind of hostility but that is being expected of them in order to get the work done. I guess thats all photographs ive got. Im going to reserve my comments for rebuttal if you have any questions for me now, im available to make them. Thank you. Thank you. No questions for now. We will now hear from dbi. Good evening, permit services. The remarks i have as to the availability of the stairs during construction, especially when theyre required as a second exit for the occupants is that when work like this is required that the contractor restore the exit to the functional at the end of the days work. Shown the previous speaker here, the in useful order throughout the construction as well throughout a days worth of work. If you can imagine the stair being replaced in its entirety thats when we would get into situation that you do not get an exit and maybe we would impose a fire watch to enable the to be assured if there was an incident of fire. In regards to the 16th notification, mr. Bruno indicated that we said the stairs were in good working order on the 13th. I was looking at the record and the notice that was generated on the 17th, clearly says in item number 6, at the stairway several parts of the staircase was damaged or deteriorated with members. So im a little conflicted as to why you know, he says that the stairs were in good working order. At this time, i have no further comment or for my presentation. Thank you, we have a question from Vice President lemberg. Thank you, im very confuse as to the chain of revents. What mr. Bruno appeals and what is before us, is march first, Building Permit to correct a previous nov specifically on the back to repair the stairs in the back of the property. And then, mr. Bruno just showed us a new nov for march 9th that says that same work was being done without a permit. What happened there . Can you fillin my gaps here for work being performed without a permit it appears that a permit was issued 8 days prior. Yeah, i actually dont have in my record here, i apologize. We didnt receive copies this hearing, so this is all new to us. I see the notice violation, investigation has revealed work being under as suspended as opposed to no permit. Is that what youre referring to . The appeal was filed on march 8 and he claims that work was continuing. So we issued another nov. So the owner would have had noticed that the permit was suspended . Yeah. Okay, that explains the discrepancy. Thats correct, they had a permit but it was suspended. But it was suspended because mr. Bruno suspended the day before. Yes. That makes sense. What would the permit process be . When an appeal is, is under way, the permit is pus ended. We expect all work to stop, right. In violation of the suspension. We went through with the items of violation, told them to stop. Is there any work of this tun because of the appeal . There is none here on the written notice of violation. Is there anyone that would like to provide a Public Comment . Its to the right of the podium, thanks. Im coming as the friend of linda and concern. She is elderly, linda pheterwits and Health Problems thats why shes not here today. Honorable members of board of appeals, i live on the first floor of examine mark bruno lives in the third floor, same building. Where we both lived for 30 graerz. Years. Mark bruno has been harassing, ever since i can remember. On the week of march 4, a contractor and the team had been working diligently to repair the drywall on the backstairs which mark brown o reported to the city. Most of this was caused by mark bruno hanging his dripping wet laundry. Submitted all permit to complete the work and the workers were repairing the backstairs, mark bruno would shout at them and yelling at them and constantly taking pictures of them like he usually does. Even though the stairs were not safe. The morning of march 9, a saturday, the workers came back to complete the stairs. Im 74 and very vehicle and praopg for open heart surgery. Since the work couldnt be stopped, and office arrived and asked to leave because of a real emergency. Each time bruno asked who the sergeant was on duty. The fourth time i heard bruno screaming out of control at an officer sounded like mark bruno called 911. He was outside of my window screaming at the top of his lungs like at the officer like he does to the owner and workers and every one else. Each of these officers. 30 seconds. Speaker each cooperated with dignity and patience, its been over two months and the work has been halted again, my kitchen is a mess. The drywall is still there and long needed repairs are still waiting. I have my open heart surgery at the end of the month and i was hoping this would be in order when i came home from the order. ~ thank you, thats time. Can you fill out a card for you and the author of that letter please. Yes. Thank you, is there any further comment on this matter . I was not speaking on speaking im mary and i have known linda, and she has told me she is grateful for bruno, im not sure why she turned. She has told me that if it was not for mark bruno she would not be. And she told me that she has turned on him. She has always told me how much, how grateful she is for him. Thats all i have to say. Thank you, any further Public Comment . Do you mind filling out a speaker card. We have her name. Mr. Bruno, you have three minutes. Almost every time that ive come here, the other side, the landlord has refused to submit anything, i dont know what hes going to say, mr. Bruno is a monster, hes attacking ukraine, he hates gaza, i dont know what hes going to say, he can hire a lawyer, hes hired a lawyer every single time. Instead of hiring a lawyer why doesnt he give us notice . Thats all i was asking for this appeal of a permit. It says in the Building Department that if you do work that closes down a stairway for more than a day, you have to give notice and this was closed down to four days. To get back to something that joe duffy when linda wrote all the letter, we were all on onepage back in 2019, against the same landlord we appeared before this board and only mr. Swig was there then. And joe duffy was then representing the department and said to, busgati who had just bought the building. This is in your file all of these people want is respect, and information about what is going on and a little caring tairg about knowing what youre doing. Thats all. When he tried to make an illegal adu, and in 2019, you said no you kpt do it that way. And plans to this board and this city that shows 7 occupied units when there are only six. And linda who my girlfriend who just testified and knows linda, there is a record that linda herself said, this owner of the building has a gun that he just showed me from his car, i had to go downstairs, this was in 2019, its a Police Record its not something that im imagining. To say that he wasing an illegal unit, an adu. And all weve seen is a same kind of action. All i wanted is a form of notice of any written notice as required by the city, thats all. Thank you. Thank you we have a question from commissioner trasvina and Vice President lemberg. If youre seeking notice, how does the appeal . What action would get you notice by this board . So i apologize, mr. Pe rera has told you, that different inspectors have come out and said that the project is not finished, so it seems that a fair solution is to allow to finish the project but first give us notice. I wouldnt call you if it was not 7 inches. Im not going out and photographing things all he has to do is give us notice. Since mr. Pe rera has said that an inspect or on march 17th said that its not yet complete work still needs to be done. Then mr. Bassgeti should follow through with the building requirement to give notice which is just a piece of paper to all the people who live in the building, saying im doing this work on the days, the stairway will be closed and thats all. So youre not, youre not challenging the issuance here, you want. The issuance its clear from seeing the description, youll see the miguel, the kerter it says i will post a sign for 15 days and return. There is more to the notice than i suggested. It says you have to give 15 days. Its clear low the department with all due pekt. Tell me what relief youre asking for. You can either remove the issue, that the permit was not done properly. But give us notice, one way or the other, i think we all as individuals, linda her life, i didnt even know. Im not asking to argue what is the relief. The relief. Is upholding the permit with the conditions that they give notice, does that do it. It should have been required to begin with. What are you asking us to do . I think he should apply for the permit to finish the job and he should have to give notice. So your preference is to stop this permit and have him start with another one . I dont care really what he does. Every time the police came, i had to walk up the stairs. Thank you. Youve answered my question. Im building on to what trasvina is asking. I dont understand, so as to what commissioner trasvina was saying, as far as reissuing the permit and requiring permit. Its already in there its black and white as you pointed out. So it has an out. I have not asked my question yet. As my earlier question indicated, i did not understand the procedure background of how we got here but now that i know that, youre brief is per plexing to me, it does not address the permit and things that have happened in the past it puts from a previous hearing but it did not address the march 1 permit. My question is why did you think that appealing this permit was the best outcome for addressing what you want to get done, which i heard you several times is getting this work done. And with a notice. You youve misstated that in the permit its required to have a notice. Its not, the contractor with passgetis permission, checked the box, we are special we are not like the other builders this is one of the inspectors that came out, this is a man who like many people does not want to play by the rules. You dont have to give a permit, its required. Thats the problem. It was required. Do you have any legal citation as to why this was required . Yes, it says because right above on the special. Youre right, i said that. On this same as part of your application, i had to go get this application because when i originally called alex, he said you better be careful on notice have you to check what the actual requirement for notice is. You can get it its there in a kiosk. Its a whole page, its called notice to applicant. Im looking at the page youre talking about, it very specifically says it needs to alter if such work needs to be done. Was the staircase unaccessible to the building . Yes, for four days. And i noticed in the letter from linda, she may not know because she lives on the first floor. She does not need it, she does not use it. But it actually says, if alteration work to displace was that part of it . It was bt. displaced or examples on this onepage. But the front staircase was not in question. No, it says. This is just the back emergency exits. Its not an emergency, we all use it its the easiest way to get out of the building. This is the main staircase that we use to get out the building. Its how we empty the trash, its how we get to union street which is easier to walk on. As it says in the notice for applicant to building posting required. Would displace tenants but not inconvenience. Youre look at a different page. Im looking at the right page, im done with my questions. Theyre lacking so it needs notice. Thank you. We will now hear from the permit holder. Jeremy on behalf of bus independent qeti, thank you Vice President lemberg for that clarification. Deputy director has clarified that notice was not required for this, i agree that it was an inconvenience that some guard rails were being replaced, some floor boards were being replaced but at no point did that staircase become inpassable in a state of emergency. That is there to protect tenants in case an obstruction that would trap tenants, thats not what happened here. What happened here is an amazing amount of diligence by mr. Bruno, to stop a permit for no particular reason. And thats been happening and linda really wants to get stuff going so she can get her place in order for when she is laid up, and mr. Busceti wantser to do right by all of his tenants including mr. Bruno, he needs to have a way to go, a way forward. Hes still going to fix the stairs. Do we need to stop for another 15 days to give a posted notice that the scares will not be available. The stairs will be available to see this repair through. Im sure that im going to be back here on this property with mr. Bruno we have an application in to legalize that adu. To bring back despite. Despite his comments, i will deny to the day i die, i am not an attorney, im a permit consultant ive been working before the board of appeals since the late 1980s ive been a regular of this room. And ill continue to be so. The point is, we have to have a path forward to get repairs done when repairs need to be done. When bruno needs to let people do the work that needs to be done on this property. If he needs some sort of notice that is exceptional and extraordinary even beyond what is required by code, hes going to have to let the contractor that are arriving to work know that he needs to know exactly what their permit is and what their scope their attempting is work has to be done, Old Buildings need Constant Care and were prepared to give care. We have questions from commissioner trasvina. And lemberg. You say youve been in board and youve been here longer than us,. . Ul all of you. Can you assure us that you can provide a brief because our work needs to get done. I can do that, with this appeal, i heard about this last week from mr. Busketi who was planning oncoming but his property manager but he was agitated and upset and its affecting his health so i told him i would do this for him. I appreciate that youre doing this for compensation and partnership or whatever. But we do need a brief. Ill keep it brief. I second everything that commissioner trasvina. Knowing that you have an appeal stop the process, why are you not going out your way to communicate what is going with this been with the tenants of the building, and im thats not for mr. Bruno im talking about all of them. Thank you for that question. The approach that weve taken is to be proactive to with the inspectors so there is absolute clarity about what is expected to comply within notices that have been written. Were trying to correct that with proper oversight. In terms of your request that better notice be given, i will agree to see to it that gets done. You know, my goal is to its obvious that the building has issues im not going opine but youre trying to fix those issues and it seems that the best path there is open and honest communication. I think it applies especially to this report. Anything further from dbi . No okay. Commissioner this matter is submitted. Thank you. Commissioners, discussion or motion . Commissioner swig. Motion to deny, sorry motion to uphold the appeal and issue the permit with the necessary caveat it seems that proper notice be provided to the tenants. For the construction. Even though that is unnecessary, i understand, looking at julie waiting for her to say but its part of the game. You want them to put a placard is that clarified. Written notice, posted written notice, be made in tandem with the issuance. Before we vote, well turn to Vice President. I would like to suggest rather a 15day period which seems accessible we reduce that to 48 hours. Fine. Because appropriate notice does not mean anything from a legal perspective. Thank you for that amendment, thats why its great to have four lawyers on this panel. At least 48 hours to begin. Before its to begin. Okay, and what is the basis of this motion . That the, that the permit is being properly issued however there is a pattern of not providing adequate notice to the tenants of the building. So on thao motion, president lopez. Aye. Commissioner tras innocented vina. Aye. Commissioner lemberg. Aye. That motion passes 40. They issued a notice of building. Is granted. Granted with the condition. With that, we are adjourned. Thank you. [music] since the opening on third and mission in 2010 the grove is a epicenter. Tis is part of the community. We bring tourist, we bring convention ears and have a huge group of locers who live here. We are their living room and love to see them on a regular basis and seek newcomers to the city of San Francisco and serve them a good dose of San Francisco hospitality. We make everything in house from scratch every dape we vahand carved [indiscernible] the Chicken Pot Pie we serve probably a hundred thousand if not more. Roasted chicken, prime rib, salad[indiscernible] coffee cake and [indiscernible] all the pies are fresh baked. The home made cookies are done, once, twice a day, depending how fast they go. We believe in goold old fashion home cooked food. We want to be a welcoming, warm hospitable place for everyone to come and hang out. Respond time with friends and family, meet new people. Have important conversation. Relax and enjoy, rejuvenate, get restored, enjoy one another and the at mus sphere the growth. The grove is over 730 to 830, 7 days a week, breakfast, lunch and dinner. Youre unmuted. Good morning. The meeting will come to order. Welcome to the may 17th, 2024 regular meeting of the local Agency Formation commission. Im chair connie chan, and im joined by commissioner dean preston and hope williams. And id like to welcome the newly appointed commissioner, hilary ronen. Our clerk is alisa zamora, and id like to thank the staff at sfgovtv for broadcasting this meeting. Madam clerk, do you have any announcements . Yes, madam chair. Lafco is convening hybrid meetings that allow inperson attendance and Public Comment while still providing Remote Access and Public Comment via telephone. Apologies. Chair chan. We okay . Were good now. Public comment will be taken on each item on this agenda. E