Transcripts For SFGTV SFCTA Full Authority Board 20240711

Transportation Authority Meeting for today, november 17th, 2020. Our clerk is ms. Britney milton. Ms. Millton, can you please make any announcements and then call the roll. Clerk yes. I will call the roll and then follow it up with my Public Comment announcement. Commissioner. Supervisor fewer . Supervisor fewer present. Clerk commissioner present. Absent. Commissioner mar . Mar absent. Commissioner peskin. Chair peskin present. Clerk commissioner preston. Supervisor preston present. Clerk commissioner ronen. Supervisor ronen present. Clerk commissioner safai. Supervisor safai present. Clerk commissioner stefani. Supervisor stefani present. Clerk commissioner walton . Supervisor walton present. Clerk commissioner yee. Supervisor yee present. Clerk im sorry . Ill now make an announcement oh, thank you. Commissioner haney present. I will now make an announcement about Public Comment. Public comment will be available for each item on the this agenda, via telephone by calling 415 655000 415 6550001, and d entering access code 146 423 1359. Then pound and pound again. To make Public Comment, dial star 3 to be added to the queue to speak. When it is your turn to speak, your line will be unmuted and the operator will advise youre allowed two minutes to speak. When your two minutes are up, well move on to the next caller. Best practices are to speak slowly, clearly and turn down the volumes of any television or radios around you. And that concludes my announcement. Chair peskin thank you, madam clerk. I will proceed to the chairs report. Before i do so, i would like to report that commissioner mar is having some technical difficulties. And if hes not able to get on before the consents agenda, will make a motion to excuse him, until hes able to get on. With that, colleagues and members of the public, i am very happy to report and we all know this, in addition to helping elect president elect biden and my kindergarten through 4th grade colleague, Vice President elect kamala harris, San Francisco voters look very favorably on transportation funding measures on november 3rd, two weeks ago. Locally we approved prop a the health and homelessness streets and parks bond. The general Obligation Bond included 41. 5 million to repave and reconstruct roads, rehabilitation and make seismic improvements to structures and plazas. There are funds for rebuilding parks and spaces throughout the city, including in one of the three original parks, portsmouth square, safe Pedestrian Access improvements throughout the city and county. So thank you so much to my colleagues and the mayor, who put this on the ballot. And particular thanks to the voters of San Francisco, who overwhelmingly adopted this. And regionally voters, not only in San Francisco, but in all three caltrain district counties, santa clara and san mateo and this county passed measure r. R. By over twothirds approval, pursuant to senate bill 797 by senator jerry hill, which exceeded threshold. And hats off to our colleague supervisor and joint powers board rep Shamann Walton and his colleague david pine and i rarely say things like this, who showed true leadership. The sales tax will provide not only a lifeline to this regional railroad, that connects gilroy all the way to San Francisco, through san jose and san mateo county, which has been struggling like all transit properties with extreme revenue losses, because of ridership levels during the pandemic, but the funds will offset our own obligations in the amount of some 15 million ad year to provide operating support, which will be a shot in the arm from muni. Finally the fund funds will proa way to build towards caltrains future as an electrified service. We look forward to hearing about that project later on todays agenda with mr. Fungy. And again thank you to everybody who made this happen and particularly the voters of the three counties. And finally id like to thank many of you. I was not able to attend. I got tickets to the freida exhibit at the dejung. I want to thank commissioners yee, mandelman who observed world day of remember phones for he Remembrance Day here at city hall. It was attended tragically by families from throughout the bay area and beyond, as well as other city officials from the sfmta and the Mayors Office on this sad anniversary, where we remember those who died on our streets, 187 folks, not to mention folks who have been terribly injured in their lives, altered forever, that have passed away since 2014. This year alone, i mean, even during the pandemic, weve lost 21 lives and thats 21 lives too many for what is truly a preventable tragedy. And with that i really want to thank our vision zero chair, outgoing supervisor and president of the board, supervisors noreesupervisor t recommits us to our vision zero goals. Last week as we all know, the board unanimously passed his resolutions recommitting us and urging the sfmta to develop a plan to lower speed limits, among other necessary changes to our streets. We remain a Strong Partner in this effort and will carry on after supervisor yee retires in early january. And with that, colleagues, i conclude my remarks. Thank you. Madam clerk, is there any Public Comment on the chairs report . Commissioner walton. Supervisor walton i did want to echo the happiness for the passage of measure r. R. , not only want to thank you and supervisor haney but the entire board of supervisors. As you remember, we were going through a tumultuous time to get to the point where we could get the caltrain measure on the ballot. Obviously during this pandemic we didnt get our typical resources during the month of august. We were given a week off to regroup and recharge with families. If you recall, we brought this body back to meetings during that one week where we had an opportunity to be off. Everybody came together, came together quickly, so we could get the measure on the ballot. I want to thank you for ray tending those emergency meetings, that had to take place for us to get measure r. R. On the ballot. And i do want to also extend a big thank you to director chang, because she was wonderful and brilliant throughout the entire process. So i want to make sure that she knows and understands shes appreciated. Thank you, chair peskin. Chair peskin thank you for the comments, commissioner walton. Is there any Public Comment on the chairs report . Clerk there is Public Comment. Chair peskin first speaker, please. Hello, caller. Chair peskin good morning. Clerk your two minutes will begin now. Once the two minutes begins, ill give you a 20second warning. Two minutes now. Good morning, supervisors. Roland lebrun, san jose. Id like to echo supervisor waltons comments and thank the board for coming back from recess to put the measure on the ballot. The reason im addressing you is that, as you know, even though the measure passed, it did not meet the required twothirds in Santa Clara County. And Santa Clara County at the end of the day is going to be more than 60 of the measure r. R. There are many reasons for this government. From all three counties about the governments issues and people are seeing what to do. And thank god it passed. But the real issue in Santa Clara County is that half of the county doesnt get Caltrain Service. And moving forward, i hope that San Francisco will support us with the extension and Start Building a fullblown highspeed line between San Francisco and gilroy. Because weve got massive ridership from three counties. Theyre giving us tremendous grief in terms of Traffic Congestion on highway 101 and that the extension is really going to help us relieve the situation. Thank you so much. Chair peskin thank you, mr. Lebrun. Are there any other members of the public . Clerk yes, there is one more caller. Hello, caller, your two minutes begins now. Thank you, chair aaron peskin. Alita dupree for the record. My pronouns are she and her. Good report. Lots of good things and changes. Thank you for mentioning the importance of traffic safety. Its near and dear to me because i dont have a car. I use bikes, scooters, walk. I dont have the protection of 2,000 3, thousand pounds of metal around me. So i think this vision zero work has to continue. We should be able to feel safe on our streets. Obviously with the Traffic Enforcement and being vigilant about the behavior of everybody on the roads, whether theyre in a vehicle or not. I adhere to the walk dont walk sign and like to do my part. Measure r. R. Is passed so thank you for being one of those bodies that passed it. A consistent source of funding. Its essential to keep it running and not go every year to ask for money. Now it will come through the one cent sales tax. So lets finance to go after money, especially as i look forward to the changing of the guard in washington. Thank you. Clerk thank you, caller. Chair peskin thank you. Clerk there are no more callers. Chair peskin okay. Public comment on chairs report is closed. We will go to the executive directors report. Ms. Chang. Thank you so much, chair peskin. And good morning, commissioners. I appreciate the kind words on r. R. And congratulate all of you and again thank the voters, as well as our leadership here at the t. A. On caltrain and then the r. T. A. Board as a whole. We are very delighted that there will hopefully be more funds blowing, not only to caltrain, but also to alleviate the operating support that m. T. A. Provides each year. An additional benefit to muni at a time when its very much needed, as far as our operating budgets locally. Staying with the regional theme, at m. T. C. , were pleased to report that the Commission Staff is recommending revised telecommuting strategy for the bay area. As youll recall last month, the board approved commissioner ronens resolution, opposing originally drafted strategy, that required 60 workfromhome mandate. The strategy would have had negative ramifications, of course, on our downtown and commercial businesses, Public Transit and lowincome communities. Were pleased with the new revised policy, focuses appropriately we believe on 60 sustainable trip goal and trying to reduce drivealone rates. That can be met through multiple methods, by employers. So again this is consistent with the resolution passed and we thank commissioner ronen for her leadership on this and other topics. As far as additional regional opeds. Many transit operators are struggling, as we all know. I want to acknowledge as agencies near the fiscal cliff, were seeing drastic measures being taken across the region. We really do need congress to come together with the administration, the coming administration, on additional federal relief cares act funding or other funding for local governments and transit. The golden gate Transit District made the difficult decision to lay off 200 employees. They were faced with many difficult options and did go with that this week. Were already seeing the impacts to our bay area communities. We still support and track the Blue Ribbon Transit Recovery Task force which is examining how the regions transit systems will be restructured, reimagined and supported as far as essential workers and the trips that are being made right now in light of all of the different Budget Constraints we face. There is some good news amidst this other challenge. The California Transportation Commission continues to collect and disperse the gas tax funds. The most recent announcement came this week, regarding the solution toes for congested corridors program. And on the congested corridors program, were pleased to announce that bart is being recommended to receive a 60 million grant for the Core Capacity Program to modernize travel in the transbay throughout the system, vehicles, storage facilities, train control and this project, of course, has won other competitive grants as well. Its a very, very beneficial project and were really delighted to see that. In addition, the local Partnership Program also saw a grant announcement for the Mission Geneva transit and safety project. So were very, very happy to report that thanks to commissioner safais leadership, who has chaired this project from the beginning, theres an 8. 7 million grant being recommended for the local Partnership Program for that project. It is metropolitan to improve pedestrian and bicycle safety, as well as transit reliability at the very busy intersections and it includes traffic signals, sidewalk extensions, bus improvement, street improvements, commercial loading zone and other curb improvements. Construction is now expected to begin in early 2022. Just 8. 7 million of state money will be matched with local funds, including our own prop k funds, as well as city funds, and sfmta funds. So congratulations to all of the project sponsors in that round. The other update i might have is on a few local studies. Our mtip studies in districts 4, 5 and 10. In district 4, this is an update on the mobility study that was recorded by commissioner mar. We continue to work on solutions and present them to the public. In fact, there will be a town hall on saturday this saturday the 21st from 10 00 until 11 30 hosted by commissioner mar with our staff to discuss the future of the great highway. And there are many different factors to consider. Of course, not only active transportation, but the concerns about traffic impacts to the local street network, as well as how we might be able to mitigate those and what are some of the options going forward, beyond the immediate period during shelterinplace. So please join us for that town hall. And for more information, visit our website at sfcta. Org mobility. In district 5, we held a town hall meeting with commissioner preston to hear from the community about their experience traveling along and through the arcadia boulevard area. We had about two dozen participants and got valuable feedback on potential solutions. We are also pleased that we could hear from and meet with the market and octavia c. A. C. Last night. And so we are gathering input from the public through Online Survey at sfcta. Org octavia. And our goals here are certainly to ensure pedestrian and bicyclist safety, for all users and as well as to try to reduce the Traffic Congestion that was heavy during precovid and really has come back, almost essentially precovid levels of traffic in that area, since it is such a complex set of movements and high demand, even during the pandemic. So thank you for that. And then on district 10, were pleased that with the 15 tthird bus route study that commissioner walton had requested. Were out in the public with a survey with sfmta to gather input on which of the different bus route options for the 15 3rd bus service that the public prefers. Theres been outreach, particularly to Visitacion Valley neighborhood. The survey is up through the next few weeks. We do plan to bring the report to you all for approval in december. Turning to the prop aa program. I just want to congratulate our team and this body on ten years of the prop aa program. This is a vehicle registration fee. Ten years ago San Francisco voters approved the 10pervehicle fee on vehicles registered in San Francisco. The Program Brings in about 5 million per year to Fund Transportation improvements, such as road resurfacing, pedestrian safety, and transit reliability. With this first generation of projects, were seeing more and more benefits in these areas were really showing the voters what the benefits of these tax dollars are in real ways. Some of the Program Highlights include transit and pedestrian connections in the hunters view, affordable housing, the revitalized 24th street bart station plaza, the bike lanes and sidewalks and the presidio. And reimagined through mcclareen park. In the end of my report in the attachments, a full list of projects that have been funded and that are ongoing with prop aa funds. Next to last, i just want to mention that we have a 1 million grant that we do hope will be approved by the m. T. C. The staff has recommended this from the prairie Conservation Area program for the bicycle and pedestrian path, connecting to the pathway atop of y. B. I. And over Hillcrest Road and down through the west side bridges to the Treasure Island area. Were very appreciative of m. T. C. For the support and look forward to partnering on the construction phase, as we also prepare for our west side bridges project. It will be a fantastic, spectacular, local and regional improvement to the active transportation network. Finally, i do have to mention it was in the news and youve heard it perhaps in the news that the central subway has extended its schedule and unfortunately there has been some delays associated with that construction effort, particularly due to pandemic and covidrelated illnesses and social distancing requirements. So we believe that the central subway now is expected to be completed in spring of 2022. And that would be for Revenue Service i believe. So theres been actually tremendous progress on the construction of the system. However, there will be a significant period of testing and commissioning required. So thats the new date and we also hope to bring awe more full update in the coming months. With that, i conclude my report. Thank you. Chair peskin thank you. Thank you, madam executive director. That incredibly thorough are there any any questions or comments from members . Seeing none, any Public Comment on the executive directors report . Clerk yes, there are two callers. Chair peskin first speaker, please. Clerk hello, caller, your two minutes begins now. Caller thank you, supervisors. This is roland lebrun. So, first of all, thank you to the director for posting the report prior to the meeting. That was very helpful. Back to measure i dont know if caltrain support it in prop k. I can assure you that [indiscernible] as a matter of fact, neither one of these measures has passed the twothirds majority, if the caltrain tunnel must be its a particular concern. 700 million for brakes. 300 million for additional Caltrain Service all the way between gilroy and San Francisco. And also 30 million on top of that actually dedicated to the san jose to gilroy extension. The issue is [indiscernible] if you think the central subway is out of control, you havent seen anything yet. The reason why im addressing you, i hope that [indiscernible] will join the former Transportation Committee chair to provide the committee and make sure that they follow 20 seconds, caller. Santa clara county. This goes into 2016. Thank you. Clerk thank you. Chair peskin thank you, mr. Lebrun. Next speaker, please. Clerk hello, caller. Your two minutes begins now. Caller thank you, alita dupree for the record. Lots of good things. Im definitely going to report it. My mine admonition is about the telecommuting issue at m. T. C. Now i dont think that a mandate is in order for telecommuting. However, the plan isnt to mandate anyway. Only cities and towns, counties and state can enforce such a thing. Even and i dont even know that a telecommuting mandate, if one was legislated, could even be enforced, being so many variables and things just by definition. I do think that there should be diverse modes for people to be able to travel. But the biggest elephant in the room is there are just too many cars on the roads, by leads to congestion. I think the biggest fear that people have with telecommuting, and an ardent, strong supporter of telecommuting, is that once you give the person the ability to telecommute, they can go anywhere. They can go to places with much lower cost of living and no state income taxes, like our neighbor to the east nevada, where im actually sitting right now. And so we have to think about how do we build a San Francisco that is affordable for people to live. It costs about 700 a month 20 seconds caller. Caller so telecommuting can offer people the opportunity to keep more money in their pockets, especially in expensive places to live. So i support telecommuting, but not a mandate. Thank you. Clerk thank you, caller. Chair peskin there are no more callers. With that, Public Comment on the executive directors report is closed. [gavel] has commissioner mar been able to join in . Im here, chair peskin. Chair peskin so everybody is clear, we are in receipt of an email from the board of supervisors. The administrator of that has indicated some accounts have been disabled. Sorry that commissioners fewer and mar had trouble getting on earlier with that, madam clerk. Can you please read the Consent Agenda. Clerk yes. Items 47 comprise the concept agenda. Items 57 were first approved at the november 10th Board Meeting and now before the board. Staff is not planning to present, but available for questions. Chair peskin thank you. Is there any Public Comment on item number 4, the approval of the minutes from our last meeting on november 10th . Clerk there is no Public Comment. Chair peskin okay. Public comment is closed. [gavel] and is there a motion to move the Consent Agenda made by commissioner mandelman. Chair peskin seconded by commissioner fewer expect on motion made and seconded, madam clerk a roll call, please. [roll call] clerk there are 11 ayes. Consents agenda has final approval. Chair peskin thank you. And commissioner milton, insofar as i am leaving tomorrow, if you want to bring me those items to sign today, i will sign them today. And if not, i will not be back for ten days. And i do want to note for the record, that commissioner haney has some great lighting and looks really well. With that, madam clerk, could you please read item number 8. Clerk item number 8 update on the Caltrain Modernization Program. This is an information item. Chair peskin thank you, madam clerk. And colleagues, this has been on our agenda a number of times. But due to long agendas, gotten ited a number of times. We are all in receipt of an extremely comprehensive memo that has raised some questions, which im sure will be posed. John fungy, the chief officer of Caltrain Modernization Program is here to present. We all know him from his earlier incarnation as the head of the central subway project with sfmta here in the city and county of San Francisco. And with that i will turn it over to staff from caltrain. Mr. Fungy, the floor is yours. Great. Good morning. Chair peskin and board of supervisors, my name is michelle bouchard. Chair peskin i was going to say. I know you. And you are not john fungy. My apologies. Its okay. John youll see john shortly. I just thought id provide a few comments as introduction. First of all, i just wanted to thank you so much for providing the opportunity to give this update to the board today. Im here with john, as well as seamus murphy. I just wanted to provide a few comments. Actually echoing some of the comments that you said, chair peskin, as far as caltrain background and where we find ourselves during the pandemic. You know, somewhat bittersweet. We have had the opportunity to work very closely with all of the Regional Transit providers during the pandemic, to really try and figure out what joint solutions might be implemented. And so thats really been one bright spot over the course of the last few months. As kind of an introduction, many of you are aware that caltrain relies very heavily on fares. So the reduction in ridership that has occurred during the pandemic has really put caltrain in a bind. For the first half of this fiscal year, weve been the grateful recipients of 64 million in cares act funding. That funding has been used to support the operations and maintenance of the service, for the first two quarters. We anticipate that that funding will run out by the end of december. And so the discussion of r. R. Today is just were so glad to be able to provide is in a positive light. If r. R. Didnt pass, we would have a very different discussion today. So with respect to that, we certainly want to thank this board and San Francisco for everything you did to get r. R. Passed. It truly will be a game changer for the railroad, as well as the j. P. A. Members in san mateo and Santa Clara County. Were here today to talk about another game changer, which is the implementation of the Electrification Program. And during the presentation today, youre going to hear from john concerning the progress of the program, including some of the challenges that covid has presented for the program itself. So with that introduction, im going to hand it over to john to talk about the Electrification Program and then ill provide a brief update on the positive train control project, towards the end. So thanks very much. Chair peskin thank you. Ms. Bouchard. Mr. Fungy. Good morning, chair peskin, board members. Caltrain chief officer. I trust you see me and see the slides before you . Chair peskin yes, we do. Excellent. So ill be providing you with a Program Status update, including both cost and schedule. So our system is 77 miles in length from San Francisco to gilroy. 51 of those miles will be electrified from San Francisco to the station just south of san jose station. Sadly, as stats shown on the righthand side are performance stats we enjoyed precovid. So calmar Program Includes the electrification project and the electric train procurement to run on the life, that enhances the reliability of Caltrain Service. The San Francisco to san jose corridor will be electrified, replacing caltrains service with highperformance, europeanstyle electric trains. Infrastructure construction to electrify the existing diesel line occurring on the 24 7 rotation, five to six days a week. The bulk of the ontrack work happens at night when we sleep. The foundation installation, the setting of poles. The lions share of the ontrack work happens at night. Our electric trains are being assembled in Salt Lake City at a facility, the upper right you can see the newly constructed facility for the construction of the train. Its on the test track. Thats the first train thats operating on its own power, on the Salt Lake City test track. If youre itching to visit Salt Lake City factory during the pandemic, we have offered the best offered the next best thing, which is the 3d Virtual Reality experience on our trains. Please visit calmar. Org vr and youll actually be able to walk through the trains and kind of get a visualization or Virtual Reality tour of the inside of our trains. Its a nice trip to have and its very safe. In terms of project benefits, the project will reduce air pollution, while also providing europeanstyle transportation experience, with Better Service for more riders. So on costs and schedules, the project has achieved a number of successes that were very proud of, like the successful completion of the 400yearold tunnel reconstruction that serves San Francisco daily. We converted a section of our track, a signaling system north of san jose in midoctober, thats now operating with a. C. Compatible equipment. I know that might not sound like much. But its a big deal for us for actually migrating our signal system from a call it a d. T. Opinion based, to a. C. Compatible system. Once we electrify, all of our existing signal systems will essentially be not working because of the interference with the powering of the train. Weve also completed over 2,000 foundations, completed to date. Weve set close to 1500 poles. Were also on track to complete the foundations in our seven sections segment four, which is very critical for us. Because were currently scheduled to actually electrify well, the first section of track to be electrified will be in segment four, in time for the arrival of the first train set in the Third Quarter of next year. With that electrified section and the first trains that will be able to actually receive it, operate it, run it, test it, run through a series of testing and train operators. Everything that we need in order to run our system. As michelle was mentioning, the pandemic has also affected each of our program contracts. And the covid impact has actually been impacted bedifferently. I could basically generally categorize that the manufacturing side of our program has been impacted more than the outdoor activities, Like Foundation and setting of pelosi. Even though weve had positive covid cases on certain crews in our infrastructure side, the majority of the impact has been on the manufacturing side. And to kind of give you a sense of what we what weve experienced, weve experienced a lot of pandemicrelated supply chain delays for targeted industries, like electrical equipment, manufacturing, rebar manufacturing, also the Program Requires a reconstruction of two pg e substations that serve all the way down to san jose. Because of this project, were rebuilding both of those pg e substations to actually upgrade the service in order to provide 115k. D. C. S for our system. Well, that work was halted during the initial stages of covid, essentially construction stopped until pg e determined that it was actually safe for the work to continue. Were also being hampered by International Flight restrictions, preventing european technical experts, that are needed for the inspections, testing and operation of our train sets. So they were initially impact, even though we had recently put in place the workaround through the swiss embassy, in order to bring those experts here on a 30day visa. That problem has been fixed. But we essentially had that problem for about eight months. Also the Train Assembly in Salt Lake City. Salt lake city has experienced a spike in covidrelated cases that we havent seen here to date. In october theyve had, you know, close to 10 of their factory had positive determinations. And weve been able to control it actually with only nine cases experienced during the month of november. In addition to the covidrelated impacts, we have suffered other delays not related to covid. Theres two primary delays that weve experienced. And the first is the contractors delay in designing and installing the crossing controls. This is a designbuild contract. Great crossing controls that are compatible with the electrification. The design site is the contractors responsibility. And that delay, in designing of the system, has resulted in the contractor requesting additional time to complete this work. Were working very closely with them, in order to assist them in developing the design, accelerating the design and we currently expect that the contractor accelerate this work, the design work and the installation work, as required for the terms of our contract. Were also very disappointed that our contractor is slower than expected in installing foundations. Were pushing for better performance through our assistance in advanced plan, such as not you know, not relaxing with the supply chain issues, but actually ordering the material well in advance of when you need it, knowing that theres going to be supply chain issues, so that we can get the rebar and the necessary material here on time. We helped them in the advanced planning. Were seeing some fruits of that labor. Also were providing the contractor with district assistance with utility identification. And if theres a utility to be relocated, we relocate that for them, in order to expedite the work. So that the Foundation Work doesnt turn into a Critical Path issue. I believe all of that good work is has a bit of a fruit. Because we dont expect that the Foundation Work is to have any impact on the revenue start date. Individually these impacts would be manageable, but when you take a look at all the cumulative impacts that weve experienced to date, both covid and noncovid impacts, what the program currently is is looking at a schedule assessment. Were currently updating the schedule to reflect the current situation. And the potential of ongoing pandemicrelated delays, that may occur in the future. Were very concerned at the covid issues, that could happen over the winter in Salt Lake City. We have a planned risk refresh with the m. T. A. We have four working sessions in order to better determine the covidrelated costs and impacts. Weve also we have advised our board that we will have preliminary schedule and cost analysis completed and validated for our january caltrain Board Meeting. That completes my calmod presentation. Im available for questions. And also were going to keep questions to the end. And perhaps turn it over to michelle for the positive train control update. Chair peskin thank you. Seeing no questions on thest firefighter my colleague on the roster from my colleagues, lets go back to ms. Bouchard. Great. Thank you. This is just a very brief update. We achieved a few substantial milestones since the last update to this board. So just wanted to highlight the fact that in over the summer we submitted our safety plan, which is critical to getting safety certification at the end of the year. We anticipate that will happen in december. We are in constant discussion with the f. R. A. And so, knock wood, every reason to believe that we will get that certification. We also approved a contract in the september timeframe i believe, that would kick off our operations and Maintenance Agreement with lab tech, who is the provider of the technology. So, you know, were looking forward to certification in 2020. And really getting used to working with the web tech, not in a project capacity, but in an operations and maintenance capacity. Weve been fairly lucky with respect to our ability to attract talent to the j. P. B. In order to help to maintain and develop this system. And so we have been working on growing our p. T. C. Team, which at this point has about six members. And so were really trying to keep this Institutional Knowledge in house, so we can be very successful in the maintenance of this system. And that concludes my report on positive train controls. Chair peskin thank you, ms. Bouchard. Are there any members of this body who have questions for mr. Fungy or ms. Bouchard . So seeing nobody on the roster, mr. Fungy, if we can just drill down a little bit into the discrepancies between balfours latest scheduling, forecasting of may of 2024. And the pcep schedule showing a substantial completion date of march 2022. Can you drill down into that a little bit for us . And help us understand what is a pretty significant difference between those two schedules. Sure. Id be happy to. So as i reported, the driver in the balfour schedule update is the completion of the Great Crossing controls, where they had difficulty for the first three years of their contract, to actually advance the design, as required by contract. So what youre seeing is the contractors request for additional time, because of the lack of advancing or completing the design necessary to install the Great Crossing controls. And when the agency became aware that balfour was having difficulty, we partnered with the contractor, working directly with the f. T. A. To quickly expedite reviews, provide feedback, assemble a team comprised of f. R. A. Personnel, c. P. , california p. U. C. Personnel that meets on a monthly basis, along with the contractor, the contractors designer. And working through the issues. And weve been very successful at advancing the design to a state that we believe that we can accelerate. That acceleration is part of what youre seeing before you in the discrepancies. Were currently in mediation with balfour and their second and thirdtier subsuppliers, to address that difference. And to look at ways of accelerating the design, which for the Great Crossing controls, which is on the Critical Path. And if we are able to accelerate that design completion, essentially putting on more resources to complete what we know that weve successfully can do and recently have installed north of san jose. That we can accelerate this work in order to provide Revenue Service, as shown in our schedule update. That said as with any program, theres multiple aspects that affected delivery date or project completion. And were working very closely with our funding partners, as we have in the past. Were also, as i indicated in my report out, working with the f. T. A. In middecember and having four sessions with them to actually evaluate some of the projectrelated impacts, such as the design of the Great Crossing controls and the covidrelated impacts, that weve experienced, in order to better determine and with, you know, a clear revenue start date, thats doable, based on some of the sort of long poles in the tent, in order to, you know, shine the light on those and bring them up to the surface and see what could be the impact of these items. When you look at items like the Great Crossing controls, those are finite elements that you can look at putting more people, resources, money to get those things done quickly. But whats concerning for the program right now is the pandemicrelated issues that theyre experiencing in october and currently experiencing in november. And not knowing what the winter months are going to be like. Because right now the Critical Path issue to revenue start date is the manufacturing of those e. N. U. S. Chair peskin thank you, fungy. That was very responsive and i really appreciate it. Are there any members of this body who have any questions, with regard to this matter . Seeing nobody on the roster, why dont we go to Public Comment. Clerk okay. Thank you. We have three callers. Id like to remind the callers, theyll be given two minutes to speak and i will be given a 20second warning. Hello, caller, your two minutes begins now. Caller thank you, supervisor. Roland lebrun. So let me start with the problems for the five years. Lets start with the e. M. U. , the train. The problem started there when [indiscernible] these trains needed two sets of goals. The end result is there was a single bidder for the trains. They arrive here in the bay area, the bombardier and the factory in richmond, which is currently assembling [indiscernible] 2 million. Mr. Fungy has to approve a there is no room left inside the trains. Ms. Bouchard is now proposing a Million Dollar amendment to reopen the doors. Moving on to the signaling system. You can not electrify. It includes a 239 million change order. [indiscernible] the contract he approved on october 2011 was for 189 million, not 289. Operator 20 seconds. The lowest bidder was failed to meet in 2016 and again the 2018 deadline. In 2017, the board finally agreed that [indiscernible] operator thank you, caller. Chair peskin next speaker. Operator hello, caller. Your two minutes begins now. Caller thank you. My name is shirley johnson. I live in San Francisco. I was first like to congratulate caltrain on the passage of r. R. , like everyone else has done. Thats a wonderful opportunity for caltrain to sort of rethink, regroup, rethink now that it has dedicated funding. To rethink how it should interact with passengers. In the past, caltrain has been in the in the distant past, caltrain has been very responsive to passenger needs. But sadly i must report that in the recent past, caltrain has been much less responsive. For example, in 2015 caltrain j. P. B. Increased bicycle capacity on electrified trains, but the trains being built in Salt Lake City, actually have less bike capacity than the trains running on todays trac tracks. I would ask caltrain to listen to riders regarding the security of riders property. Because riders find over 12,000 riders signed a petition to have 6 feet within view of bicycles to watch our bicycles from theft and damage. Not only damage of the bicycle, but components. Caltrain is buying cars right now, they have no view of the bicycles. With this new funding, i would encourage caltrain to please Pay Attention to your passengers. We are the ones that have helped you, that we pay for our fares to help you maintain service. And i would ask please reconsider how you listen to passengers and Pay Attention to what we have to say. Thank you. Operator thank you, caller. Chair peskin are there any other members of the public . Yes, go ahead. Operator hello, caller. Your two minutes minutes now. Caller alita dupree for the record. She and her. This is very important. And there are many parts to it. And theyre moving. Certainly i think, yes, the item that deserves the most emphasis and advocacy is not the foundation. Because we really cant do anything else although we build foundations. And so that has to come first. Then we can build on through the other parts of this. As to the trains, i am aware of the issue with the double doors. I did support the double doors. Because caltrain has lowlevel platforms. But there may come a day that we may have highlevel platforms. Now in the northeast, when the Long Island Railroad and metro north bought the metropolitan series of electric rail cars in the late 1960s, they had to convert all of the platforms to high level. The so double doors at least give us some sense of versatility. I think bart is the only system anywhere on the west coast, along with the los angeles subway, that has highlevel platforms. So we have to keep our versatility in mind. I think these problems are solvable. We have to get this done sooner rather than later. Thank you. Operator thank you, caller. Chair peskin thank you. Operator there are no more callers. Chair peskin all right. Seeing no further Public Comment, ms. Chang, anything that you want to add . Obviously we should continue to monitor this and monitor risks and costs going forward. Ms. Chang, anything that youd like to add . Thank you, chair. We have been participating and appreciate being involved with all of the other funders on the Risk Management and overall oversight of the project. We continue to work on the budget and schedule side as john mentioned. Well continue to keep you posted on that work. Thank you. Chair peskin thank you. And thank you, ms. Bouchard and mr. Fungy. Mr. Murphy, is there anything you want to add on behalf of caltrain . No. Thank you, chair peskin. Thank you for the opportunity to be here. Look forward to coming back for next time. Chair peskin thank you for your work. Commissioner walton, anything youd like to add before we close out this information item, sir . Walto supervisor walton i do want to thank ms. Bouchard and mr. Fungy for the presentation. And to the entire team at caltrain for their work and dedication during this pandemic. Er and this crisis, as we know. Ridership is down. We have had to work through a major, major pandemic. I just want to let everyone know at caltrain, we appreciate their hard work, commitment and dedication. Thanks for coming this morning and updating us here at the board of supervisors. Chair peskin thank you, commissioner. And so this item has been heard. We will hear it again in the future. And thank you and good luck. And god speed. Madam clerk, could you please call the next item. Clerk item 9, update on the San Francisco municipal Transportation Agencys subway Renewal Program. This is an information item. Chair peskin all right. Now for some bad news. Mr. Toeland. Or ms. Kirschbaum. Or somebody . Tell us the bad news. Theres a lot of it. I think jeff was going to kick us off. If hes not on, im happy to start. I am on. Im sorry for the delay. I was having a hard time finding the right button. Chair peskin no worries. Find the right buttons to get the project done, wed be done by now 237 indeed. I would like to introduce our director of transit julie kirschbaum, who is going to be giving a presentation today about our findings in the twin peaks tunnel subway. As all of you know, we rushed to reopen our rail system in late august, in advance of what we thought would be the reopening of schools. And, of course, the schools did not reopen. And we discovered not only that we had rushed too quickly to reopen rail, but it created an opportunity for us to look deeply at our deferred maintenance problems, problems that stretch back decades. As all of you know from the Muni Reliability Working Group, the sfmta, even at the peak of a boom economy in january, had a substantial structural deficit. We knew there were things wrong with our system. And weve taken advantage of the crisis of covid and the changed travel patterns and reduced ridership, in order to take a deep dive into the situation that we find in the subway. And take advantage of our low ridership, in order to correct as much as we possibly can, given the low ridership. But also constrained by our declining resources. And so with that id like to turn things over to julie, our director of transit, who can give you much more detail. Thank you. Chair peskin thank you, im sorry for my frustration. But im expressing the frustration of hundreds of thousands of our constituents. Ms. Kirschbaum. Thank you for your candor. Can you all see and hear me . Or see the presentation . Chair peskin yes, we can, julie. I wanted to have a what i think is the first of many conversations about the subway. And really start to talk about where our known vulnerabilities are. During the muni working group, we focused extensive on the outdated train control system. And i focused on that because it is certainly the biggest ticket item and it is the most complex. But i think that, in some ways, i didnt tell the full story. There are a number of areas where we have known vulnerabilities in the subway, and we are working on a plan to address them. And really get San Francisco to the train system that they deserve. The subway is our most complex and vulnerable point of the muni rail system. And like kind of any symphony, a lot of things have to go right in order for customers solve a safe and reliable experience. Some of the big known vulnerabilities, i was here most recently to talk about the splices. Splices as you may recall are a part that connects two pieces of overhead wire. Im pleased to report that were taking excellent progress on addressing that issue. And ill speak to that in a little while. We also have other issues with the overhead line system that we talked about in the past, including particularly areas of the subway where we go from a very rigid piece of wire to a very flexible piece of wire. We also have aging track and switches from embarcadero to castro. These are original to the subway being built. The train control system we discussed. We have very intricate wiring that connects our switch and signal system to its power source. And then most recently weve realized that we are tackling some track stability issues related to the ballast in the twin peaks tum. The twin peak twin peaks tunnel. The twin peaks project was both a structural safety project to do earthquake retrofitting and safety, as well as a track replacement project, that we completed about two years ago. And during the course of that project, a decision was made to reuse rather than replace the ballast. Ballasts essentially the lock, that stabilizes the track and the ties, and allow trains to move safely through the area. But also allow water and drainage to trickle through without creating maintenance problems. If the ballast had been cleaned and kind of shaken out, so that all of the mud and the fine particles were removed, reusing the ballast probably would have been a costeffective and timeeffective strategy. But it wasnt. And, as a result, we are now having ballast that is really more mud than rock. And needs to be addressed. Some of the other kind of areas that i just wanted to call your attention to briefly is we also have, in addition to the track being original to the subway from embarcadero to castro, a lot of the station systems are as well, including like 40yearold electrical panels. In our fiveyear capital plan, we have resources to study and determine what is the best path forward through that. We also have the traction power system is what provides power from our substations to our overhead lines. And ultimately to the train itself. It is very well designed for our Current Service plan. But, as you know, the updated train control system is going to allow us so run many more threecar and potentially fourcar trains. So we have a steady scope to look at the tracks and power system and what our needs are for the future. While we have these nonvulnerabilities, weve been making investments incrementally in the subway. Weve replaced all of the es ask ka late escalators, except for the embarcadero system, which will be last. We have a new radio system and emergency light system. And through our quarterly extended maintenance windows, weve also been able to do quite a bit of both deferred maintenance, as well as small incremental projects. So while this progress is important, i think what it doesnt do is approach all of these vulnerabilities as a unified program. When we went to replace the vehicles and started that program about eight years ago at this point, we had the oldest fleet in the country. Our vehicles were breaking down two to three weeks. We now have a fleet with a steady average age. Its unusual if a vehicle is breaking down every four to five months. I think most importantly we have a maintenance staff thats really been trained and committed to keeping these vehicles running, as well in year 10 and 11 as they did in year two and three. Thats what were working towards on the subway. Subway Renewal Program that looks at all of our vulnerabilities as one package, as something that needs to be addressed over a five to eightyear period to really get at what is putting us at risk of the subway being shut down or the subway being delayed or customers experiencing inconvenience. And its certainly going to take a big investment in infrastructure. A lot of the initial seed money is already identified and in our fiveyear capital plan to get this work going. Its also going to take a significant improvement in project delivery. The fact that we have to go back and do such a major component of the twin peaks project is unacceptable. And is something that really needs to be addressed through a whole range of things, including how we approach the procurement process with our contractors, what level of staff oversight were providing, as well as really working to bring our maintenance and our Engineering Teams closer together, so the people designing these deferred Capital Projects, understand how theyre going to be maintained and owned by the end user. Were really starting to see that now. Weve created a subway task force of engineers and maintenance staff, thats doing ton of work in the subway right now. Just to give you a sense of it, the engineers that are working, ive probably been in the subway more in the last 60 days than, you know, some of them have probably been in their career. Theyre getting really handson experience and doing a lot of collaboration and partnership to get to answers to tough problems. The last is workforce development. Like the vehicles, the next generation of equipment did smore complex than what we have now. For example, a switch, that allows a train to go from church and devos or head towards west portal, the current design is of our older switches are all analog. Its a lot of levers and things that need fine adjustments. The new switches are digital. Theyre more selfdiagnosing, theyre easier, theyre more reliable. But they require an investment in staff to understand how to maintain them and to keep them in a good state. As i said, the subway work, we believe its best addressed systematically as a comprehensive program. We do have many of these elements are already underway. By and large theyve been communicated as discreet items. Really they need to be discussed as a package. And we need a more integrated approach between our engineering and our Maintenance Teams. The work that were doing right now, in the subway, is what i would call a tremendous down payment on this critical work. So we are getting more done now than, you know, i would have ever thought possible during a shutdown. But it doesnt solve all of our problems. The cass row castro and van ness and church and devos, theyre long lead time items. They take at least 18 months to fabricate and get here. If i could snap my fingers and have them here, it would be great to be getting that work done now. But its going to have to be addressed in the future. The same is true for train control. Train control is complex, fiveto sevenyear project, that is not going to be ready in our timeline. And then as i said, theres some unknowns. You know, for example, the subway electrical. We know a significant investment will be made, but we dont know what it is. The work that were doing now ranges from everything from rail grinding, which is something weve been trying to do for over a decade. It will result in a smoother and quieter ride for our customer and it will extend the life of the rail. We are doing spot replacement of track fasteners and rails. So starting to make some incremental replacements of the rail, particularly in the areas where were seeing the most deterioration. We have already put in digital switches at church and devos. This will also expand that to the embarcadero pocket. The eureka curve ballast, as i said, its a difficult project to have to go in and replace. But to be able to do it now, during the shutdown, in a way that minimizes customer impacts, we believe is critical. And it was really this joint Engineering Team and Maintenance Team that really flagged for us,. Commissioner haney , this work is going to need to happen. And it should happen now, while the subway is close. On this work, just a couple of other key points. We know that businesses are incredibly vulnerable right now. When we did the original work, we had a big footprint at the west portal, merchant area. Well be able to go through the eureka portal, off of Market Street, so well really be able to minimize our impact to businesses. The contractors also is going to be doing the work from 8 00 a. M. Until 8. More people are spending time in their houses than theyd like right now. Well be doing our best to minimize impact to surrounding residents, by taking muirgia equipment thats coming in and out in the portal is not coming in when people are trying to get rest. The overhead lines is going very well. Were replacing long stretches of wire to reduce the number of overall splices that we have. And the new splice has arrived. Weve made the investment in staff training, that i discuss discussed. And where were not running new wire, we are putting in a replacement part. And then the subway lighting, getting that completed will help improve both our future maintenance work, as the crews will be able to do better preventative maintenance, if they have better visibility and improve our Emergency Response. And then one last thing thats not on here, is our technology group, they did not have a wireless project planned. But they realize during the shutdown, that with the inhouse talent and easytoacquire equipment, that they would be able to equip the muni tunnel for wireless service. So were really excited that thats also going to be done at the end of the year. So some of this work will be invisible to the customer. But will keep our trains running safely. Others like wifi, like the rail grinding, which will have a smoother, quieter ride, will have immediate customer benefit. As will some of the overhead line work, as we eliminate slow zones in the subway. The future work, the big pieces are the switch, both the track and switch replacement, as well as the crossovers, the electrical work, likely some ventilation work and some power upgrades, as well as train control. So these elements would make up the muni or the subway reliability program, which we will be working with the Transportation Authority to both better define and cost, as we think through kind of all of our difficult kind of Financial Decisions over the next few years. How do we continue forward with this important work. So thank you very much for your time. And happy to answer any questions. Cal mcguire is also here with jeff and i. And hes really been taking a deep dive into some of the capital delivery questions. Its an area we know we need to do better on. We dont have all of the answers now. But were very interested in your feedback and happy to at least share with you our thinking to date. Chair peskin thank you, ms. Kirschbaum. Before i go to commissioner yee, mr. Mcguire, anything you would like to add to this unfortunate situation . I guess the only thing i would add, im trying to make sure we learn everything we can from the lessons of both this project and the central subway. And even what our regional colleagues are finding with caltrain. You know, it its a little early for us to bring fully cooked recommendations to you. But i really would like us to try to learn about whether we can move beyond the lowbid procurement process, whether we could look at some things of more closely why our contractors interest and our interests and the publics interest in getting the project done quickly. More to come. Were tracking those issues and trying to learn from everything. Chair peskin yeah. And, mr. Mcguire and to ms. Kirschbaum and to the newest member of your team, mr. Tumlynn, it gives me for pleasure to express the frustration of all of our constituents. And i personally like you and hold you all three of you in high esteem. If there were just the central subway, which is very complicated and, yeah, low bid may have something to do with that. Id be frustrated. But when you add the ballast in the tum and you add, frankly im going to say it, screwup relatively to the splices during covid19, which was an opportunity that mr. Tumlynn said we were going to take advantage of, but we played small ball and that came back to haunt us. When you add that to the van ness b. R. T. Delays, which is nowhere near as complicated as these other projects, i just im as i said in the newspaper the other day, i mean, youre out of excuses. I dont even know what to say. Commissioner yee. Supervisor yee i think you said it well. I share that frustration. And the part of the presentation is im listening to almost a recycle of probably what i have heard ten years ago, in terms of heres our capital plan and were trying to be comprehensive and blah, blah, blah. And some of these issues seem to like im glad youre taking that approach, it shouldnt have taken us this long to think about it in the comprehensive way youre talking about. Although even though its comprehensive possibly, the implementation of what youre talking about is still going to be piecemeal. In terms of the rail grinding, maybe im mistaken. I thought we did it recently . Is that am i mistaking that with bart . Didnt we have some rail grinding somewhere . Bart does have a longerstanding rail grinding program. We had a very difficult time finding a contractor to do this work, because of the sparks that grinding itself creates and really being assured that it could be done in a safe way. We started in the subway because it is the least impactful, act the track that gets the highest use. This is really our first foryay into rail grinding. So far its going really well. But it is new for us. Supervisor yee by the way, whatever you can do in terms of looking at the issue of the lowest bid versus the best bid, its something really important. I think thats part of screwups is always having to get the lowest bid, maybe not the best qualified. So whatever you come up with, you know, i think all of us would be interested to look in and support. You brought up, miss kirschbaum, you brought up the switching mechanism that you need to replace and so forth. Especially for the one that goes to devos, is that for the end only . Church will not need the switching any more, right . Yeah. Thanks for asking that question. We have about 30 switches in the subway. And it would allow the tracks to move and, for example, at the castro crossover, at embarcadero to go to turn the trains around. We replaced in one of our first extended maintenance windows, we replaced the switches that allow the end user to go out of the subway, rather than going straight to west portal. And the next kind of highestuse switches are down at the embarcadero, where we turn the trains around. Supervisor yee yeah. All right. That explains it then. Maybe just thinking about the church. Yeah. Thats correct. Thank you for pointing that out. Supervisor yee thank you. Chair peskin are there any other members of this body who would like to weigh in, ask questions, express your frustration or adulation . Commissioner vice chair mandelman. Supervisor mandelman thank you, chair peskin. It is just extraordinary that this amazing city seems unable to deliver a Capital Project a transportationrelated Capital Project. And i think, you know, i echo and share the frustration that my chair and other colleagues have expressed. It feels like something we have to figure out. I know people who are leading the m. T. A. Are also frustrated, also seems like weve been i mean, ive been here a few times. People who have been on the board longer than me have been in conversations like this for a very long time. And it cant continue like this. I guess i mean, i noticed and i thank you for the briefing on the ballast issue. I may have just forgotten this. I noticed the path to construction, a decision was made to not to neither use new ballast or used the old ballast to who made it doesnt have to be a person. How did that decision get made . How did it get reviewed . Who ultimately is responsible for that decision . I can tom, why dont you. Ill start and julie can fill in more of the details. So that yeah. So that decision was made it was made jointly by m. T. A. Staff and the contractor. They had to weigh a couple of tricky issues in the field, including the possibility that some of the material might be contaminated and might need to be removed. However, that critical decision i think needed to have been elevated sooner and faster and talked about with the more comprehensive view of all of the risk involvement. Julie talke talked about culturd Staff Development as part of the solution here. You know, we have some incredibly talented and hardworking engineers who are out there inspecting, monitoring Construction Projects all over the city. Those folks need executive support from people like me, jeff and julie. When they see a problem in the field, they need to raise it and run it down and that we are committed to helping them solve it and manage, not just the risk that theyre hearing from the contractor, hey, be careful about replacing this ballast. A project could long run and impact our customers and impact the city. Thats a little bit of a complex answer. You asked the who question. Supervisor mandelman a decision gets made out in the field, doesnt get raised higher. Were short on time. A faster way to do this, reuse the vulnerabilities ballast we got. Do you think if it was raised to a higher level, somebody would have thought, oh, god. Whats the problem here . Let me also dive in with a diagnosis of the underlying problems, which is a culture of fear at the agency. And this is something that im working very hard to correct. Something that weve found in the past, and found under my term, employees are afraid to diagnose a problem and elevate it, because that might make us look bad. Nothing makes us look worse than failing to deliver Decent Service or deliver a project on time. One of the things were working on in the clearly side is making certain that employees understand, not only how to identify the problem, and have a curiosity about the problem to come forward with solutions. Think through the unintended consequences. Thats one of the things that im very glad to see in the subway task force that julie and tom have assembled, is the beginning of a completely different attitude about problemsolving. And that is resulting in good work across different disciplines. So that the folks who do the maintenance are actually talking to the folks who do the capital program, who are talking to the folks who do the engineering, who are talking to the people po did the contracting, so we can look across all of the disciplines and understand theyre inner relationships and the consequences of making decisions one way versus the other. So there are there are nested problems which need to solve we need to solve. It starts with culture. If we cant fix the culture, we cant fix anything else. Then it needs to look at procurement, contracting, private management, closeout. All of which have problem, some of which were identified in the Muni Reliability Working Group work, which we need to implement. Others are more complicated. All of them must be resolved before we can go to the voters and say trust us with more capital money. While i inherited many of these problems, i am now the one who is accountable for all of these problems. Its my responsibility to do the really hard staff work, on top of Everything Else we have to do during covid, to rebuild our approach to major Capital Projects. And i would argue that we know the path for doing that, because we rebuilt at a much smaller scale our approach for dealing with smalland midsized project. I would argue the sfmta is its best in the industry at delivering small and mediumsized projects. If we can apply those lessons to larger projects, we can get a lot done. Chair peskin commissioner mandelman. I just want to jump in. But go ahead. Supervisor mandelman i have two more. Go ahead. Chair peskin no. Well, i certainly and sincerely appreciate the director of transportations desire to change the culture, which by the way is a culture that weve been wrestling with. As a matter of fact, as it related to l. R. V. Procurement, many of the i think most righton comments came from staff that were not being listened to. And were being rejected, who had to go to members of the media and members of this board. Apparently they didnt feel like they could go to any member of the sfmta commission, with all due respect. So i appreciate that, mr. Tumlynn. But in the same breath, a lot of is actually privately contracted. And so you cant actually blame it on employees or a culture that truthfully needs to change. I appreciate the fact that youre embracing that. Its also about the fact that you guys cannot manage your contractors. As a former project contractor, i can tell you that we have some contract management problems. But the larger underlying problem has a lot more to do with how we bid out work. We dont bid out work in a way that ensures that we necessarily get the projects or gives us the tools to provided right environment for our private contractors to deliver. Chair peskin and weve been through many different iterations of this over the 20 years that ive been in and out a member of the board of supervisors and the t. A. And, look, youre looking at 11 people who would probably give you the authority for best value, done this other iterations and, i mean, so like you came to us and said we want designbuild. We said yes. You want turnkey, we said yes. At some point you run out of excuses. Agree. Chair peskin mr. Mandelman. Supervisor mandelman okay. So im understanding this subway working group as an innovation, a step forward and a better way of thinking about, yeah, you know, more collaborative and a better way of working problems going forward. Given that we keep having problems and opportunities for learning, what is the framework within the m. T. A. For the lookback on projects and mistakes and documenting or, you know, organizing the things that have gone or the continuous, you know, horrible phrases, the continuous quality improvement. What are the ways that, you know, the screwup turns into not a screwup again, and a better way of looking for potential screwups in the future. Julie, tom, do you want to start with that . As it relates to transit we need to do that both for operating instances, as well as capital. For us its getting everybody in the room, talking through what worked and what didnt. I think were getting increasingly better about avoiding blame and really pointing to solutions. But codifying that in standard operating procedures, so that it doesnt become the thing we forget. It becomes the thing that gets built into what we do moving forward. Supervisor mandelman is that an actual qualification, a document somewhere . Yes. So a lot of our work is because were highly regulated, because, you know, were in such a safety critical business, a lot of our work is documented in what we call s. O. P. S, standard operating procedures. So we use those and we enhance those, as we learn. But i cant speak directly to our capital delivery projects. Supervisor mandelman it seems like thats the area where we actually need to have a great way of looking back and learning and changing and doing it differently. How do we do that on the capital side . All right. A couple things to offer there. One is, you know, we work for projects for largescale projects, like the central subway, we work with our funders, like the t. A. Staff, as well as the f. T. A. Theres like a permanent project Management Oversight Committee for those projects. Thats not a that is not a, you know, full life cycle lookback. Thats an ongoing opportunity for some Continuous Improvement. And weve used feedback weve gotten from both your staff here in the t. A. As well as the f. T. A. S project Management Consultants to help us clean up, changeorder process, central subway and the other things flagging that project. Thats Continuous Improvement within the life of the project. I think the question of how we do the lookback, that is something that, you know, we we need to make sure that were giving employees the freedom to speak and the cultural change and that we understand just how important it is to keep projects on budget and on schedule. One of the things that im pretty proud of is the way weve shifted a lot of our major street reConstruction Projects away from very complex, hardtodeliver, dig up the street for ten years, toward a quickbuild approach. And many of you in your role as supervisors have been great partners in those. That came from the kind of process youre talking about, mr. Mandelman. Looking back at our big Capital Projects, assessing what was going beyongoing on. We need to make sure schedule, budget and quality. Supervisor mandelman i am not thats right. I dont know. That seems i guess hearing this presentation now, im not convinced and maybe this is because it hasnt happened, that there is a framework at the m. T. A. For kind of looking back and thinking about this in a way that i cannot do as a non, you know, expert in this area. But you all have to, because we have to stop doing this. And it cant just i mean, you know, the t. A. Staff is amazing. And they can hold the m. T. A. Accountable. But i guess i want the m. T. A. Of holding the m. T. A. Accountable. This kind of goes forward and looks back and all that stuff. And just here maybe im not hearing correctly or youre not presenting correctly or whatever. Im not convinced were there or even necessarily were on a path to being there. So id like to kind of have that happen soon. So i think your instincts are correct. Were not yet ready to present on the path. But the path is being developed. And one of the things that i can say is that i do not believe in using outside consultalities for core government services. But there are ways of using consultants to elevate the skills of Government Agency staff. Were fortunate that there are other agencies around the United States and around the world that have faced the exact same problems that the sfmta is facing and have solved them. We can learn from those experiences and adapt. So thats one of the things that im eager to do, even though we have limited resources. To use the resources to bring in some outside expertise to help train up our existing crews and develop stronger procedures for different scales of projects. Again some of the types of work that we do, we are best in class. In other areas we do need some help. And i fully admit that. Chair peskin mr. Tumlin, can i ask you about the hierarchy and structure of what the cops call the command staff. Youre the director of the sfmta and the director of transportation, which actually are two different titles that you have. Correct . Yes, that is correct. Although the dialings are used interchangeably, both in the charter as well as in our own h. R. Classifications. Chair peskin yeah. Im also the general manager. Chair peskin and ms. Kirschbaums role and position is what . No, no, i want jeff to answer this. So ms. Kirschbaum is the director of transit for the sfmta. At any other transit agency, her role would be general manager for the transit system. Chair peskin and mr. Mcguires title and responsibilities are what . Mr. Mcguire is the director of sustainable streets pep at any other city would be the equivalent of the director of transportation. Chair peskin and we used to have a director of Capital Projects, do we still have such a thing . We do. We have a Capital Projects and Construction Division, that we have moved or are moving under tom mcguire, in order for tom to provide stronger oversight. And that is the division where we know we need some additional some additional help to make sure that they are able to very skillfully and successfully deliver projects of all scales. Chair peskin bingo. So the Material Weakness is there. Because we used to hear from the director of Capital Projects in my time in the old days. And we no longer hear from that individual. I have no idea who that individual is. Youre telling me you have a Material Weakness there and that youre doing a shift and putting that under mr. Mcguy. Can you drill down into that, please. Im trying to help you figure out where your problems are. Because youve got a problem. So our Capital Projects and Construction Division director is sue chin young. Sue chin is she is good at what she does. But were finding that the opportunity for taking advantage of the, you know, the merging of streets and capital are im sorry, for streets and transit, the opportunity for merging those together, that hasnt been fully berthed yet in our Capital Projects division. Thats where we want to work. Chair peskin mr. Tumlin, the fundamental underpipping of proposition e of 1999, was the merger of those two functions. 21 years ago. Yes. Agreed. Chair peskin oy vey. Any other members of this body who any questions, comments. Vice chair mandelman. Supervisor mandelman my last one is. Just to be clear, i appreciate having the framework for the subway Capital Improvements that are going to need for the maintenance and longterm investments that ought to be made and need to get made and were going to be doing that over the next ten years. Is that like a plan that the m. T. A. Has been keeping and maintains and updates over time . Because it would be worrying if its not. So right now the best place that its captured is in the fiveyear capital plan and only as a list of discreet projects. So one of the things that tilley chang and i were talking about a little earlier this week is how do we take what, you know, is just essentially a power point and turn it something into that we can get our arms around, subway Renewal Program, that has both costing but also provides us better timeline for when these major closures are coming. Right now, as i said, most of the discreet elements are known. The ones that are not known are, you know, captured in our Asset Management program and have studies to define them. But i cant hand you a document and say, you know, vice chair mandelman, this is the subway Renewal Program. And thats where i think we really need to get. Supervisor mandelman not great. Yeah. Supervisor mandelman its more the these programs are way more than five years. I mean, over the life you know, i assume there are things you need to do every 30. But were at that point. So, you know, the muni subway was built about 40 years ago. The twin peaks portion was built 100 years ago. Supervisor mandelman right. We did accomplish a tremendous amount of work with the twin peaks, track replacement and structural work. But it was, you know, the work to date has been, you know, the engineering and the maintenance staff kind of doing kind of a linear assessment of what needs to happen and not saying, okay, what needs to happen to get us through to the finish line of a reliable subway. And then as weve talked about with train controls, the intent is to have ongoing updates and investments, so that you dont get like the buses. The buses were all old at the same time and all new at the same time. When you have Capital Management program, that is looking at, you know, spreading work, spreading risk, you dont run into that same problem. So thats where this work needs to go. Because of where we are in kind of the life cycle of these assets, i do believe ten years from now, were going to have the heavy lifting really completed and a pathway to continual renewal and investment. But we we wanted to make sure that the public understands that there are future shutdowns anticipated. Because it would be a reasonable thing for a layperson to say, what do you mean to put in a crossover, you just shut it down for six months, why didnt you do it then. Were trying to build public trust, be transparent and just really better communicate whats coming. Supervisor mandelman how much do you know do you know how much we have to shut down the subway over the next ten years . We know that the two big ones will be the these very specialized crossovers. Theres four of them. And then the train control. How much of that work can be done as an overlay, like while the other system is running and how much of it needs a complete shutdown, we dont know yet. Just if in comparison, when we had to replace the big function at church and devos on the surface, that took about nine days. And thats on the surface. You dont have to, you know, get trucks in and out of the subway. But well know more in the coming year. Supervisor mandelman and last question. How much did the twin peaks tunnel work cost . And how much are we going to have to spend to fix the ballast . The original project i believe was on the order of about 50 million. And wed be happy to follow up with the specifics. Were currently costing out what the replacement will be. But it is on the scale of millions. Supervisor mandelman millions or tens of millions . I think tens of millions. Supervisor mandelman all right. Im done. Thank you. Chair peskin thank you, mr. Vice chair. Any members who want to comment on the painful item . See nothing names on the roster. Madam clerk, can we go to Public Comment. Thank you, ms. Kirschbaum and mr. Mcguire and mr. Tumlin. Operator there are three callers waiting on the line. Callers, i would like to remind you you have two minutes to speak, at which point in time i will give you a 20second warning. Hello, caller. Your two minutes begins now. Caller thank you, chair aaron peskin. Alita dupree for the record, she and her. This is painful and concerning because i think that we can do better and perform at a higher level. I dont think that we have to shut down a subway to keep it in a state of good repair. Im not speaking academically, because the new york city subway, which is in new york city, one of the largest systems in the world, has rarely shut down. And the things that causes it to shut down are generally major weatherbased catastrophes, like super storm sandy. Up until recently that system ran 24 7. It was covid cleaning where they decided to close it at night. And there is some outcry from the public on the 24hour service, its disruptive. So its a highcapacity system in San Francisco. Im concerned if we rely on buses, were going to see people left behind, especially people with disabilities, because of the reduced number of passengers that we can put on buses. And so i think if we have to take ourselves up to the levels of what these bigger systems, such as new york are doing, inbound able to run a system and fix it at the same time. I ask that you not be timid about this. Because in new york they offer a mandate under a mandate to serve. I feel that San Francisco as well needs to have a mandate to serve. Thank you. Operator thank you, caller. Chair peskin thank you. Operator hello, caller. Your two minutes begins now. Caller thank you, supervisors. The first thing id like to bring to your attention, the issue is not whether its the old ballasts or bringing in new ballasts. The real issue is why the ballasts in the first place. If you go to london, youre never going to see ballasts anywhere in the tunnel. Because of the problems youre seeing. They use concrete. Through the concrete base and [indiscernible] now that the subway is shut down, this is a perfect time to do this. Why arent we looking at this. The other thing that really concerns me is the slide that showed the switch. And if you look at it, you to have a concrete base. The issue is that the switch is made with wooden ties. You can see that this is what caused the problem. In europe switches are preassembled in the factory. Directly to concrete ties and then they use special equipment, a tilting wagon, that bring the switches inside the tunnels and just drop them into position, basically solve the maintenance issue. Im going to wrap up here. What muni really needs is a chief engineer. And is person has the very latest operator 20 seconds. Caller in terms of construction and maintenance. And, okay. And also in europe it doesnt take nine days. Thank you. Operator thank you, caller. Hello, caller. Your two minutes begins now. Caller can you hear me now . Operator yes. Caller good morning. Alita and roland are absolutely right. The questions from chair mess kin and mandelman only start to get at the underlying m. T. A. Problems. I have asked for information about the subway task force, including meeting members in scope, im still waiting to get that information from m. T. A. I think the interest in increased subway capacity at this time is misplaced. Reliability, yes. More capacity, no. I think well be lucky to get back to 50 of the previrus in the end in two years. And i dont know that were ever getting back to 100 of the demand. So increasing subway capacity i think is just unnecessary. And reliability, yes. I refer to my last brief dated october 23rd. The bottom of page 5 discusses some of these issues about rail. There is still track segments in the system with deteriorating pavement. Ive made this comment before, including Market Street and west portal and elsewhere. Those areas should be inspected and pavement should be fixed. Online meetings on this question of subway renewal. They have frank dialogue with the public. Just as youre doing now, but it shouldnt just be the review and the staff. The public needs to be brought in here. In a very serious way by. I disagree with director tumlin that m. T. A. Is the best at small project delivery. No. The public is often ignored here. And thats part of the problem. Theres been lip service to poet, but not help. Thanks. But not a whole lot of investment in poets throughout the agency. And consistently. And i would like to constructively engage with m. T. A. On these issues. Id rather be involved in this. M. T. A. Staff, you know how to reach me. Thank you very much. Operator thank you, caller. Chair peskin any other members of the public on this item . Operator there are no more callers. Chair peskin all right. Public comment is closed. We will undoubtedly be hearing this unfortunately again. Sorry for having an uncomfortable but necessary conversation. And ms. Kirschbaum, just so that were perfectly clear, i know you are doing your best. To, mr. Tumlin, youve had a pretty long runway to come to this board. If you want to change the contracting procedures, come to this board and talk to us. But we cant keep doing this. And if have problems in the interim staffing, fix them. If you have problems with h. R. , thats something that was given to you as a Charter Authority that you have. And you contracted that out to d. H. R. And because apparently your predecessor, your predecessors couldnt discharge the h. R. If inofficialties in 2022, im prepared to do another charter amendment, whether its with your collaboration or not. So but this is i mean, this merry go round has got to stop and if youve got ideas, were all ears. Being supportive of our agencys goals and our need to serve the public. So thank you very much for the opportunity to share with you the reality that were facing, as well as the beginnings of our strategy to fix this problem. Chair peskin yeah. I mean, the one that is just kind of. As our about to be former president is about to say, is the bathing. I mean, that one is just it is mind boggling. It did not happen on your watch. , with it did not. Im responsible for it. And institutionalizing the lessons we learned from those problems. Chair peskin yeah. As are the 11 of us and your commissioners. All right. Sorry. You know, its hard to get this exercise this early in the morning. Madam clerk, could you please read item number 10. Clerk of course. Item number 10, d. M. V. Driverless vehicle testing permit for cruisein San Francisco and update on proposed California Public Utilities Commission, ruling on the deployment and driverred and driverless Autonomous Vehicle Passenger Service. Chair peskin thank you. Colleagues, i know this has been going on for a couple of hours. But given that the California Public Utilities Commission is actually going to be hearing matters related to this issue on november 19th, i would like to have a compressed conversation about this. And im not sure whether or not the timma meeting is going to proceed after this . Now for something new and totally different, were moving on to an informational item on the California Department of Motor Vehicles driverless vehicle testing permit, issued to cruise, wherein San Francisco is yet again ground zero and the guinea pig. I want to thank start by thanking our own sfcta staff and the sfmta staff. This, by the way, is a bright spot for the sfmta and particularly i want to thank former deputy City Attorney julia free lander for her work and recent briefings and advice to my office, regarding this slow but fastevolving situation with regard to a. V. S, where cruise is a subsidiary of General Motors corporation and and headquartered here in San Francisco. We also have this in the media, a permit from the california d. M. V. In the middle of last month. To test driverless Autonomous Vehicles here in the city and county. The permit allows crews to test up to five vehicles on the streets without a driver, with a speed up to 30 Miles Per Hour in all conditions, except for in heavy fog, which we experience much less these days or rain. So were also in repeat of a proposed decision that would authorize the deployment of commercial Autonomous Vehicles, Passenger Service with and without a safety driver. And if adopted in coming weeks, a. V. Providers would be able to apply for terms to provide Passenger Service with or without a safety driver and collect rider fees for the services, which i will note and we did predict this, are subject to our local t. M. C. Tax, that the voters approved. And we unanimously put on the ballot, proposition d back in november of last year, from which we, as we all know, we did at the last meeting, begun receiving and allocating revenues from. And i have to note, which General Motors opposed in the state legislature, albeit it was remarkably modest tax. The only reason we did not get a much larger vote, in the state assembly and only eeked that out on a 4139 vote in the state assembly, was because of General Motors opposition. To engage with Decision Makers and in so much as theyve chosen San Francisco to test their technology in our very dense urban environment, pursuant to the permit that they got from the d. M. V. I also wanted to encourage them to utilize this opportunity to, in the same breath, test out a collaborative relationship with our local government, at the staff level, with our sfmta and sfcta staff. And at the political level, with this body, in hopes that this is more than a model for operation of the technology. But we can also collaboratively Work Together and set a model for how cities can fruitfully engage and collaborative on a host of issues, ranging from shared Public Safety goals to how labor is treated and a myriad of other issues. And to that end, i just want to say our staff, ms. Chang invited cruise to this meeting. They have chosen inside to offer opportunities to individual supervisors to meet. But refused to appear in public, which i find to be unfortunate. I also invited other entrants in the field, albeit a little late in the game, mainly waymo and zes. If they are here, i would like to give them the opportunity to speak. So let me just start with that threshold question. Is there anybody who is here from waymo or zeus. I had a lovely conversation late in the day yesterday with a representative of zeus. And was led to believe that they may be here. Mr. Kaufman, are you present . Chair peskin, i am here. I hope you and your colleagues can hear me . Chair peskin we can. And and i really want to appreciate you for being here and i believe that a member of waymo may be hereis there a representative from waymo . Okay. We will circle back to you and hear from you. But with that, if you will indulge us, i would like to turn this over to the director of interests, mr. Tumlin, who is also the general manager of the sfmta on something that i think we its going to be a little different than the last item, who will be followed by our executive director ms. Chang, who is followed by the sfcta deputys director for planning hugh lock. With that, mr. Tumlin, the floor is yours. Thank you, chair peskin. Through the sfmta, we are very excited by the opportunity that Autonomous Vehicles present to allow us to solve an array of real problems. Most important among those problems republica are traffc fatalities. Were certainly eager to work with industry to see the data, that documents in fact, that Autonomous Vehicles are safer than privately operated vehicles, difficulter driven by humans. Driven by humans. We need to learn some lessons from the past. Uber and lyft said ride hail would improve in greater efficiency on the road. But, in fact, a few years into our experience with ride hail, weve seen that ride hail results in a significant increase in per capita miles traveled and at the same time an increase in both congestion as well as Greenhouse Gas emissions. And the rise of ride hail has had the unintended consequences of reducing mobility for people in wheelchairs, as a result of ride hails impact on the taxi industry, which we are reliant upon for their ramp taxis, in order to serve people with wheelchairs. So we want to approach our partnership with the Autonomous Vehicle industry with eyes wide open and a sharing of data. We recognize that were dependent upon the private industry, in order to make the most out of our public rightofway. We want to make sure that if industry is going to profit off of the public rightofway, theyre upholding the public good at the same time, which means we as an agency have a responsibility for accurately and precisely defining that public good, having tools for measuring it and establishing thresholds that we expect the industry to meet in moratoriums of deal in terms of dealing with Greenhouse Gas emissions, dealing with social equity, dealing with safety and dealing with accessibility for people with disabilities. We know that we as government have an Important Role to play and that we need to be better partners than we have in the past. So i want to assure the industry that our door is wide open. I come from the private industry. I understand how the private sector works. And i am ready to fulfill our end of the bargain, in order to take advantage of the upside of this new technology, as well as managing the potential for downsides. And so with that im happy to thorn it back to the chair and hear more from the presentation. Thank you. Chair peskin thank you, mr. Tumlin. Ms. Chang. Thanks so much, chair peskin and director tumlin. I want to associate myself with all of your comments and thank you for your leadership. Director tumlin testified before congress on a panel specifically on this topic of Autonomous Vehicle policy earlier this year. I just wanted to mention that if you dont mind advancing the first slide, the areas that jeff mentioned, as far as the emerging mobility guiding principles, and again these are echoed in commissioner yees emerging Mobility Task force, as well as the office that has been set up for this emerging technology area. These are all shared values that our agencies have both adopted for two years now. And, in fact, we are applying these principles to our own work on Treasure Island, where we will be piloting autonomous, driverless vehicles, as far as Shuttle Operations on the island. That is one sort of promising area i believe that can certainly reflect all of these values and principles and then improve mobility and access for everyone. So were excited to do that over the coming year. Collaboratively with our city partners, regional partners and the private sector. Now we can go ahead and turn it over to hugh love. Hes our deputy for planning to give the rest of this presentation. Thank you very much. Chair peskin thank you. Thank you. Thank you, chair peskin and commissioners. So youve given a lot of the kind of substance of the presence. Ill try to move through this kind of quickly here. As you touched on, you know, the emerging mobility principles were adopted in 2018. Certainly guide all in favor of the work that we do as staffer as we think about approaching and addressing the kinds of issues that were talking about today. So just to kind of run quickly through the sort of information that we had to share with you. There are two state bodies. The d. M. V. Regulates the vehicles and particular the testing of these vehicles on public roads, that weve been talking about, as it relates to cruise and others. The cpuc regulates the ability to carry passengers. And so those and theres activity on both of those fronts that we want to make sure were providing information about. On the d. M. V. Side, that is a recent, you know, approval for cruise of getting the testing without a safety driver. Quite a few companies, 59 in total, permits to test with safety drivers already and several of them already are operating in San Francisco, we think at least six, possibly more. We are not required specifically to be told when thats happening. And then there are five total which ill talk about in a minute, that have permits to operate without a safety driver. So operate without someone behind the steering wheel, who can take over. And then deployment is also imagined by the d. M. V. , when, you know, certain conditions are met. The cpu c permits have been Pilot Testing permits and they have just issued rules, draft rules about the deployment that will be heard. Intended to be heard later this week. As i mentioned, there are the five driverless testing permit holders now, which cruise is one. And they are the first to be issued a permit within the city of San Francisco. The others have permits that provide them with the opportunity to test their vehicles in other areas of the state. Many of them around their headquarters buildings, where they operate and test. And each of them has to file a very specific plan for where they are allowed to operate those vehicles. Weve already covered, chair peskin kind of covered this well. Five total vehicles that cruise is permitted to operate in the city. They are technically permitted on any street, with speeds under 30 miles an hour. As you said, any time of day or night. Weve heard that theyre trying to initiate testing slowly. And to do limited numbers on streets and be thinking about some of the other kind of considerations that we might have, which ill talk about in a minute. They have made the offers, which youve mentioned already to meet with theirs with various members of the board of supervisors. They have initiated and had conversations with staff about and in particular around Emergency Response considerations, they are required to provide or be think being safety, obviously thats something that we want make sure were coordinatorringg coordinating on. We have staff from the Fire Department and Police Department on the phone, if there are specific questions about some of that. They have indicated, as i said, their desire is to Start Testing on less complex streets. Staying away from things like the high interior network and the slow streets, that m. T. A. Has been rolling out recently to make sure that testing doesnt interfere with some of the more Major Concerns that we have. So just quickly switching gears. Ill talk quickly about the c cpuc, proposed decision, which is intended to establish goals and data reporting requirements for these for potentially permitting for carrying passengers in Autonomous Vehicles. As you can see, a variety of requirements that they are required would be required to provide, if they are receiving a permit. So once this proposed decision, if it takes effect, and coming to apply for a permit and then these are some of the things that they would have to do as part of that. One of the big changes from the pilot program, that they had been testing, is this idea that they would be able to charge for services, theyre not currently permitted to do. Also they would allow for shared rides and splitting of fares. And the intent is to hear this later this week. As i mentioned 37. One of the Big Questions that we had, as staff, when we have submitted comments on this, both m. T. A. And Transportation Authority staff, is that a request that they ensure that goals are followed. And as youve seen already, and weve talked about already, our emerging mobility principles really help kind of shape what we think those goals should be. And weve provided very clear direction, but we think those goals should be, you know, as specific as possible. And clearly linked to both state policy issues, as well as local policy for us. So they have adopted goals. You know, we have some questions about whether or not theyre specific or clear enough. Or well linked to some of those state policy issues. And then in particular some of the issues that director tumlin mentioned, related to disabled access have been of particular concern. And then just quickly to note, as i started to there, we provided a variety of comments. We had quick turn around railroad. This is a process going on for a while. But in october, there was the proposed decision. We had to provide comments to staff within a certain number of weeks. And as already mentioned, some of the major issues that we flagged were wanting to make sure that these services will provide equivalent services to people with disabilities. A lot of focus on making sure we have access to the data and information thats generated to make sure that the permit holders are meeting the performance, that are consistent with the commissions goals. And then supporting and wanting to make sure that the process for public input on applications, which is imagined right now, would be continued. With that i thats the end of my preparation. If there are any questions, either for me or m. T. A. Staff or other folks on the phone, we can take them now. Chair peskin thank you. Are there any questions from members . Seeing nobody on the roster, again i want to thank mr. Hock commissioner haney. Supervisor haney thank you, chair peskin. You may have touched on this to some degree. But are there limitations on the number of vehicles and sort of the scale that once they receive a permit . And to the extent that they are operating in an area, is that required to be shared with us in any way . The city . Is that informational, once theyre under a permit, theyre under a different regulatory structure, they only have to report in that direction . Just to clarify, if youre talking about the cruise testing permits specifically . Theres five their application to the d. M. V. And, julia, appreciate if you can jump in as well, allows for five vehicles for testing. And they did have to provide certain notification to the city that they were going to be testing vehicles. As well the application is, of course, Public Record as well. They can apply for future changes to that. But at the time five vehicles is what is permitted. Then the cpuc question i think is a little bit different one. I dont know, julia, if you want to add something here. Sure. And this is a little uncertain because the cpuc provision has not been adopted. Because this decision sets the parameters for how the Commission Issues permits. And then each of those, per the applications, would be an opportunity for them to perhaps address any issues about numbers. We have urged the commission to provide for a gradual deployment of automatic driving on our streets, so were able to really observe both the positive effects and the negative ones, so that the commission is able to do the analysis of those impacts and respond in their regulation of a. V. Supervisor haney thank you. Chair peskin anything else, commissioner haney . Supervisor haney no, thank you. Chair peskin commissioner mar. Supervisor mar i do have a few questions. I wanted to start by sharing some general reactions and concerns about this topic more generally. You know, obviously Autonomous Vehicles are another major technological innovation is certain to have disruptive impact on our lives, our economy and our culture. And as director tumlin stated, while this technology promises some important social benefits, reduction of Traffic Accident and fatalities in the long run. Theres also significant potential negative impacts, just as weve seen with the disruptive explosion of the t. N. C. Industry without adequate regulation and Public Policy. And so, you know, for example, there is major widespread concerns about commercial deployment of how how commercial deployment of a. V. S may worsen Traffic Congestion and gridlock on our streets, may eliminate the jobs and livelihood of millions of workers. May also undermine Public Transit and increase vehicle traveling, at the expense of other, more sustainable modes of transit. And i think for me the biggest concern that i will have, the application of this new technology has been driven by less by Public Policy considerations, you know, as reflected in the t. A. s emerging mobility guiding principles. But more up by corporat corporal competition. And to be the first to deployment. I am concerned that this new cruise Testing Program of driverless here in our city seems to have happened without any meaningful local input and oversight, beyond just cursory notification by cruise and their lobbyist. Rather than true collaboration. And cruises rejection of chair peskins invitation to this preliminary hearing this morning is just another concerning example. So, you know, i do have a few questions along these lines. Public outreach was conducted ahead of the new driverless Testing Program by cruise. So im not sure that i can answer that question specifically. As you say, cruise is not here and available. So unfortunately none of the specific answer to what they have done. We know that they have reached out to select groups. We know theyve been hosting some webinars. We know that theyve reached out to certain members or maybe all members of the board of supervisors. We dont have the details on that. In terms of their application, theres no specific outreach thats done as part of the application process with the d. M. V. And again we dont, as a city or even in our role, have a specific role within that application processes. So unfortunately. Julia, i dont know if theres anything you would add to that . I think thats right. Its a question for cruise and we cant answer as to what they have done or not necessarily. But our our door at the staff level and the leadership level is open to every a. V. Company thats interested in working closely with the city to make sure that their services do stem the public good as director tumlin mentioned and make sure they really minimize, you know, the unintended negative consequences. We are very eager to work with companies to collaborate on that. Chair peskin yeah. If i may just hop in before i give it back to mar, weve had many of these experiences in San Francisco, which has been, you know, the laboratory for everything from bird and their dumping of 2,000 escooters on the streets, before we came up with a regiment that made sense. Same thing that happened with airbnb, before we went to war on the ballot and the legislative under a couple of administrations. You would think that we could all get off to a good start and try to rationalize this together in the myriad number of issues, whether its pedestrian safety, whether its vehicle safety, whether its congestion, whether its issues of employment, whether its issues of equity. But it is rather startling that, given the examples of airbnb, given the examples of bird and escooters, that General Motors and their subsidiary or wholly owned subsidiary cruise, would not be even be in attendance here. Having a lobbyist, no offense to the lobbyist, call and set up individual meetings behind closed doors with individual elected officials, just doesnt cut it. With that, commissioner mar, im sorry for that interjection. Supervisor mar thank you for that, chair peskin. Just, you know, a followup question. You know, how can we as a city and, you know, trying to get ahead of this and, you know, ensure that, you know, we dont see a repeat of the bad experiences and bad outcomes that happened with other emerging technology, Mobility Technologies that have rolled out and impacted us. And weve been scrambling then to try to, you know, mitigate the negative impact or address the problems that its caused. How can we be more proactive here, given that its still the state p. U. C. And, you know, the d. M. V. The main regulatory bodies on this. Yeah. I think thats a great question. And from my perspective, i think the purpose of having the sort of set of policy guidance and the approach that we have and director tumlin has mentioned and may want to follow up on, we do approach these things and a desire to be collaborative and have conversations. There have been and i believe julia can speak more to this, very positive conversations with others, who maybe arent testing in San Francisco today. Or arent testing driverless. You know, we are very open to having those conversations and trying to make sure that we approach it in a collaborative way. And get some agreement about following the policies and the direction that we have as a city. Ill let others jump in here. So let me have a little introduction and ill turn it over to julia. One of the things that we understand is because we are the first city in the world where a significant number of these vehicles are being tested, were stuck with the unique responsibility for trying to predict and understand the unintended negative consequences, as well as how to best capture the upside of this technology. Weve been arguing with industry is that if industry and San Francisco can go handinhand to the Public Utilities commission and to congress, we can lay out a framework to allow this industry floor. I think the best example is potentially how the federal Communications Commission was created and regulated. The Telecommunications Industry in the 1930s. In order to foster innovation and competition, and yet profit by asserting federal authority over the airwaves and defining the public good that must be upheld. I think thats a critical element that cities have failed at in the past. We have simply resisted, rather than define the public good as well as define the public unintended negative consequences. I would also point out that if the shortterm success of Autonomous Vehicles results in a strangling of our street system, with additional congestion as a result of induced demand, that means lower profits for industry. We actually have a shared interest in allowing this industry to thrive. And thrive through competition and a variety of clear definitions to the public good. And members of the industry, that are taking the longer view rather than simply chasing their i. P. O. Or shortterm profit, the organizations taking the longer view, have mostly the shared interests as cities like San Francisco, as well as cities everywhere else around the world. And so im also grateful that because of staff and the sfcta and staff like julia are here, we actually have the staff still in order to step up our leadership an weve been doing with the cpuc, d. M. V. And our friends at congress. Julia, i dont know if you wanted to add more or too much for the hearing. But this is the topic that we realize, despite all of the other challenges were facing, we have to lead on. Were the only ones who can. Chair peskin let me just say. This is one of the profound issues of our time. So weve got time. And i also want to announce that the Treasure Island Mobility Agency hearing, after this, will be continued until december 8th. Thank you, chair haney, for agreeing to that. So i know we have a board of supervisors meeting at 2 00. Were going to hear a lot more about a. V. S going forward. And im sure that cruise low pressure participate and come to our next hearing in front of god and country and our constituents. But ms. Freelander, if youd like to add to director tumlins statement. The floor is yours. Ill just very briefly add that we have been working extremely closely in the proceedings under way with the cpuc and have filed extensive comments and very pleased to see that many of the comments have been clearly very much considered in the proposed decision that was issued. Wed be happy to share that work product. Weve been working very closely with the t. A. Staff and sfmta staff. And i just want to also acknowledge that katie is a key member of the sfmta a. V. Team. And theyve been really working with staff throughout the agency to anticipate what the changes will look like in the city and try to maximize the benefits and minimize the negative effects. I want to extend some thanks to the whole team. In both agencies. Chair peskin as well as with the Fire Department and the Police Department. Correct. Indeed. Chair peskin commissioner mar. Supervisor mar ill leave it at that. Other commissioners have question. Chair peskin while you do not see his name on the screen, because for some reason its not working for him, the next person on the roster is commissioner preston. Commissioner preston thank you, chair peskin. And apologies. I dont know whats happening on the roster here. Im apparently unable to put my name. Hopefully you can hear me okay. Chair peskin yes. Commissioner preston i do have some questions. And i guess comments as well. One, sort of back up a little bit here. I would roughly disagree with director tumlin about about cities simply resisting, instead of defining the public good at the outset. The history of experiences weve talked about, uber, lyft, airbnb and others have been more history of our complete and total capitulation at the start to be met later by a desire to resist, only to be preempted prosecute doing so, with a lot of negative impacts that director tumlin has well outlined. So, you know, i think my question is one and i do apologize that some of this occurred before i joined this commission or the board, less than a year ago. But some of the excitement expressed for Autonomous Vehicle, some of the desire to expand our partnership with autonomous driving industry, our commitment to making sure that the city is a good partner, the confidence that those taking the long view in these companies have the same interests, that the city has. I think i a longer conversation, you know, in the future. But i think i dont necessarily have the same starting point. I have many questions. I think my question is the extent to which some of those sentiments, that director tumlin, you have expressed, reflect m. T. A. Policy or t. A. Policy orebody policy. In other words, have we have these bodies, c. T. A. , t. A. And, you know, ill leave it at those two for now. Start out with the open arms approach to the this industry. Has that been formally adopted as policy of our Transportation Agency . Ill go first. Commissioner preston, we have adopted the principles, which include collaboration. Absolutely i would say weve been in discussions with cruise and others for some time now. They have reached out early. It was part of their requirement for local consultation on Emergency Response. Theyve gone beyond that. I think that they have expressed that desire and we have met them there. And i do think that director tumlin and his staff have taken the lead on some of those coordination activities and theres always more im sure that they would want, that they may not want to provide. And thats going to be an ongoing relationship. There has been that the invitation to collaborate on the part of our city agencies. Jeff. I agree with ms. Chang. And i want to emphasize that industry came to us first in part because San Francisco offers every imaginable kind of street type, except for snow. In many ways we are their perfect testing site. While we were not excited about being the beta test site, industry was. And so we knew that we had to we had to prepare ourselves. And were fortunate that while we did not have, you know, any official adopted policy and what to do with Autonomous Vehicles, we do have a tremendous amount of adopted policies reflecting our values, as it relates to transportation. And policies like the 1974 transit first policy, actually say a lot about how we should be thinking about accommodating Autonomous Vehicles on the streets of San Francisco. So thats been our work. Translating policies that you all and the voters of San Francisco and our board have adopted to understand what does that mean about how we should be again defining the public good and collaborating and regulating in order to best uphold the public good and mobility conditions change in San Francisco. Thank you for those clarifications. But i guess i would just say, as were getting this data, hoping that we have the space, either in this body or at the m. T. A. Or at the board of supervisors, some of the initial data is coming in. This is massive implications. We talked about our taxi drivers, our muni impacts. And just i just want to make sure that were not playing a facilitation role here, but are stepping back, as the initial data comes in to question whether, as opposed to assuming the answer is yes and then figuring out after the fact how best to regulate. Thank you. Yes. Correct. Also making sure that were anticipating the implications before we actually get the data. So that we have the ability to steer or to put the brakes on. So that we know what we should be looking for. And know where we should be extra cautious. And its one of the reasons why we have been so deeply engaged with the California Public Utilities Commission. So that they understand our concerns about unintended negative consequences that will happen in the future and if we wait for the consequences to happen, it will be too late. Thank you. And i just just one final thing i want to say. And i understand some of our authority is limited by state Regulatory Authority on this. I just do want to something to mention before. I want us to be cautious about the assumption. This is not a specific statement on any of the core actors here. I just, from where i sit, i theres a role for private companies in this space. But i really do i think it is a mistake to assume a shared interest. And i just want to say when were talking about the impact on taxi drivers, when were talking about environmental impact, i think you know, i dont know how many times we have to learn the same lesson that those who are organized for profit, do not share that interest. There may be areas where the interest intersect and were certainly trying to explore what those are. But i just i do take issue. I understand wanting to have a harmonious relationship with these entities. But i also think we need to start from the assumption that the interest diverge with the companies to show where the interests actually come together. Chair peskin thank you, commissioner preston. Before i go to commissioner walton, i want to check with mr. Copman from zoox to check on burts time. If you want to wait until the end, that would be great. If you need to leave, i just want to offer you the floor. Thank you, chair peskin. Why dont we wait until the end. I can stick around for a little bit longer. Chair peskin very much appreciated. Commissioner walton. Supervisor walton thank you, chair peskin. Im not sure if this is to you or to c. T. A. Or to m. T. A. But im really wondering why are we entertaining the permit process and having a conversation about them and they refuse to come before this body . This discussion has been going on for quite a few times. I dont get why we have a discussion about them, entertaining them, working with if they refuse to come before the body. Chair peskin if i may, commissioner walton, cruise was invited by our executive director, the chair of this body. But, nonetheless, i felt that this informational hearing was very important, not only for the members of this body, but for the public. I really want to thank commissioner yee that suggested that we have this hearing. And even though this permit for testing has been issued by the state, through the department of Motor Vehicles, there is an abundant local interest on any number of levels, which i have tried to articulate. So i thought the hearing should happen. But you are expressing precisely what i attempted to express at the beginning of this meeting, which is i think its very unfortunate that somebody, who wants to use our streets to test the Autonomous Vehicles, is refusing to come before the body as a whole. And the residents of the city and county of San Francisco. I hope that answers your question. Supervisor walton yeah. Its disheartening to be in a position where people can do whatever they want to in our streets and in our community. And we cant get them to the table to have a conversation. That is something we have to figure out how to change. The faith is definitely wrong in allowing Something Like that to happen. Chair peskin and as director tumlin, you know, sounded and as i tried to sound earlier in this meeting, i really seek we all seek a collaborative approach. We want this to be successful. We dont want this to start with the kind of strife that happened in and around the advent of escooters or in and around the advent of quote unquote homesharing, where it became an incentive or eviction and gentrification, which i think we have finally if large part figured out. But i sincerely invite cruise and the other entrants to engage with our staff in a meaningful way, and to engage with the elected decisionmakers, not only in private, through a lobbyist and the response from the lobbyist yesterday, when i get again invited cruise to come, were giving briefings to any member who wants. And im like the briefings are needed by the public. Thats what we do. We are public service. We are elected officials. And its it is really conduct unbecoming. But lets put that in the pun intended parking lot for a little bit. If that is everything, commissioner walton, well move on to the vice chairman. Supervisor walton you beat me to the punch. Its not just about us, its about the public having the opportunity to hear from companies this want to do business with us here in San Francisco. And so we just have to be mindful that things like this should not be happening. We have to figure out a way to do something about it. Chair peskin yeah. And i want to say that this whole fear and mindset about state or federal preemption, look, ive been on that road for the last 20 years. We still actually, phil ting we when we put our minds to it, well always have local control and things that we can do. And so to General Motors, dont be too cocky and youll end up coming to regret it. Lets Work Together. With that, commissioner mandelman, vice chair mandelman and well go to commissioner yee. Supervisor mandelman ill be brief. I want to thank you, mr. Chair, for the tone you set. Its also worth noting, commissioner prestons points, which ring valid. But i come to this, you know, feeling like it would be great to collaborate and find out mutually agreeable ways to make a new industry thrive and also provide Good Services and not negatively impact constituents. I want to thank zoox for showing up. I have to say i am also befudd befuddled and frustrated. Particularly as i recollect the many times that cruise has tried to brief me, or through their lobbyist, who i quite appreciate. But the many times that they have, you know, tried to give me a ride around in the car or update me when they are apparently stonewalling our staff, who, our m. T. A. Staff. How this might work, what the actual issues are. I think thats bad form. I think they ought to talk to the m. T. A. And next time we do one of these hearse, they ought to show up. Thank you, zoox, for coming. Chair peskin i really appreciate that, mr. Vice chair. Thank you for calling this hearing in the beginning. Commissioner yee. Supervisor yee more than happy. A little disappointing as everybody has expressed. I just want to reiterate what you said, chair peskin, that the it seems like sometimes these Companies Get a little bit arrogant and cocky about what we cant do locally. And i think the did not want to do certain things in San Francisco. Like not having somebody driving and speaking at the same time. We were able to pass a lot of local ordinances and even the tour buses that wasnt to go to certain neighborhoods, we were able to somehow regulate. And i dont think in the beginning they these tour Bus Companies thought they that we locally could regulate them. So i agree with you. That we want them at the table. We wanted to created office of immersion technology, as a as a platform for people to have discussions with the city. And its better to do it now, rather than for us to have kneejerk reactions that may actually be looked at through their Business Model in the future. And to take care of things now. Im just i dont have any questions. Just in total agreement that we do have some local muscle here that we can exercise. Chair peskin thank you for those comments commissioner yee. With that why dont we go to mr. Kaufman. Theres anything you want to say on behalf of zoox, please proceed. And i think what youve heard here today is that safety and Traffic Congestion are on the top of the mind of this commission and our staff. So maybe you can also just respond for how we can avoid a situation where a. V. Passenger services are creating the same kind of concerns that weve seen from t. M. C. S, namely repeat problems like pickup and dropoffs in travel lanes, bus stops, and also how were anticipating the whether or not this is going to lead to an increase or decrease in vehicles miles traveled. And what assures that assurances that we have, as we heard from sfmta staff, are going to Service Folks with disabilities and seniors, which i think has been a consistent issue that we have impressed upon taxis for decades and impressed upon the t. M. C. Industry. Just some thoughts that you might want to ruminate on. Again as you heard from my colleagues, thank you very much to zoox for your appearance this morning this afternoon now. It is now afternoon. And chair peskin, thank you so much. And vice chair mandelman, commissioners, my name is burt kaufman, head of Regulatory Affairs at zoox. Weve had a lot of productive engagement across the city. In listening to all of todays approveds, im really todays participants, im really struck of what everybody brings to the table. And also this idea that we seem to exist between the problems of the present and also the hopes and fears of the future. And its very easy to stand in your shoes and to view this technology through the lens of what happened, with t. N. C. S back in cities back in 2010 and 2011. Zoox was born in 2014 to solve problems. Real Public Policy problems. We as a society want more safety and less congestion and less pollution in our cities. Gaspowered vehicles taking up valuable space on our roadways. In the near future, we hope to reveal our fully autonomous, battery electric vehicle, designed for ridesharing in cities. Right now i would note that were in intensive r d mode. Our vision is to help our future customers get from point a to point b safely and efficiently with no carbon footprint. Theres been a lot of talk around electrification this morning in some of the other topics. Im pleased to share that our fleet will be 100 electric. Ideally powered by Renewable Energy from day one. San francisco has been the home, so much meaningful transportation and innovation. For the past three years, weve been safely and successfully testing vehicles in San Francisco, where as director tumlin noted, we encountered the full range of all of the scenarios, that help us to develop a safe system. And since we graduated from the ground of the accelerator, to the streets of San Francisco in 2017, we have had a lot of productive engagement with Mayors Office, sfmta, supervisors, the offices, c. T. A. Very importantly sfbd and sf fire. Because Law Enforcement and First Responders really need to understand and, you know, appreciate this technology, because theyre the first to the scene when anything happens. So we hope that the productive dialogue can continue. Were more than a little pleased to call San Francisco home. Chair peskin, you raised a lot of issues. We hope more notice in the future. We hope to join these kinds of discussions and, you know, share our outlook and our views on them. And we look forward to additional productive engagement with this body in the future. As we work to bring the next generation of mobility to life right here in the bay area. So thank you very much. Chair peskin thank you, mr. Kaufman. Are there any questions from members to the representative from zoox . Seeing none, mr. Kaufman, we will most definitely give you that opportunity in the months ahead and thank you again. And hopefully you will serve as an example to the other entrants in the field, particularly the one that got the first permit for testing here in San Francisco. And with, that why dont we open this up for Public Comment. Are there any members of the public who would like to testify on this item . Operator there are two callers at the moment. Chair peskin first speaker. Operator id like to remind you, you have two minutes to speak. And i will be giving awe 20second warning. Chair peskin thank you. Operator you can begin. Im sorry, commissioner. Your two minutes begins now, caller. Caller thank you, chair aaron peskin and members. Alita dupree for the record. She and her. Autonomous vehicles are very important. And important to me. I have actually used them. I have ridden in a tesla model s on part of interstate 15 in california and nevada with a driver, in which the auto pilot was set on our highway section of travel. If i enjoyed it. I think theres a lot of things that we can gain from advancing this technology. Certainly Autonomous Vehicles can be run 24 hours a day, only having to stopping for fuel and maintenance. Hopefully theyll run on electricity, if i correct myself, charging and maintenance. Because we no longer have the issue of hours of [indiscernible] its hard to get people to drive. If we can go autonomous with this, this will be very helpful. I ask for an open mind on this. We dont know how emerging technology is going to take us. Because we cant we cant predict the future. There are just some things that we dont know. We must not let it stop us from being willing to make bold leadership changes and try new things. I ask you that not allow confirmation bias to get in the way. I look forward to using a fully autonomous driverless vehicle and paying for it, including the t. M. C. Tax. I think it needs to be on oversight. I would like to be able to use such vehicles on a regional basis, which is crossing the bay bridge or the golden gate bridge. Thank you. Chair peskin thank you, mr. Dupree. Next speaker, please. Operator hello, caller. Your two minutes begins now. Caller good afternoon, chair peskin and commissioners. This is the executive director of the San Francisco bicycle coalition. I want to begin by thanking you for holding this hearing. And discussing this topic so that the public can gain information and engage. As a San Francisco bicycle coalition, we represent over 10,000 members all across the city as a mode of transportation. And as such, we are concerned primarily about the safety of vulnerable road users. As director tumlin noted, Autonomous Vehicle technology is removing human errors in commissions, which could potentially save thousands of lives. In San Francisco, california and across the world. The only way were going to get there is ensure the Safety Standards are met. Were very interested. I think as director tumlin also noted, people biking and walking, southeastern southeasts and people with disabilities share the roadways with Autonomous Vehicles. As the permits are beginning to be issued, cruise is the first to receive a fabulous test permit. They certainly will not be the last. I want to encourage this continued dialogue and transparency among elected officials and decision may beers, members of the public and those of us who use San Francisco streets every day. And the companies themselves. Thank you for having this hearing. Continued conversations will emphasize safety and testing and deployment. Operator thank you, caller. There are no more callers. Chair peskin okay. Well close Public Comment. And i just really want to thank my colleagues and members of the public for your active engagement and interest. This will be im sure the first of many of these hearings. Hopefully they will be collaborate with the industry or not. With that, madam clerk, or colleagues, is there any introduction of new items . Commissioner preston. Commissioner preston thank you, chair peskin. I know the hour is late here. So i will forego the significantly longer remarks i was about to give. Im introducing an agenda item to authorize funding for the paid street neighborhood project, which includes six sidewalk extensions, buchanan, laguna and four rain gardens. And the first raised intersection in the city, at page and buchanan. And elements proposed within this project will slow traffic, including cars and bikes, and create more comfortable and safer walking environment on page and on the crossing atster, laguna and buchanan. The raising intersection provides safety improvements that connect john muir elementary school. This project focuses on pedestrian safety, its complementary to the bikeway and sfmtas the page slow streets pandemic response. And im also pleased to report that the market octavia c. A. C. Yesterday voted unanimously to support this item and im looking forward to the pull presentation, when this is on our agenda. Thank you very much. Chair peskin thank you. And commissioner haney, given the late hour of this hearing and the fact that the timma hearing has to be delayed, you may want to say few words. The floor is yours. Supervisor haney thank you, chair peskin. Thank you, director chang as well. We a number of members of the public waiting to give comment about the toll policy at timma. And i wanted to send my apologies to them and to let them know this will be rescheduled on the december 8th. They can give comments via the clerk or via director chang or my office courtney mcdonald. You can reach out to us and well make sure that we have a full discussion on the toll policy on december 8th. Thank you, chair peskin. Chair peskin thank you. Is there any general Public Comment for todays Transportation Authority Commission Meeting . Madam clerk. Operator there is one caller. Refight speaker, first speaker, please. Operator hello, caller. Your two minutes begins now. Caller apologies for the late hour. Id like to briefly follow up on what i said earlier with the authorities and the existing Program Management contract. You know about the central subway, you know about [indiscernible] ill leave it to you to decide whether you have to with the oversight. Also mention the signaling system and five years later. And over budget. But the final straw was last week when the [indiscernible] announced that the ipmt had recommended awarding the general contract to b. T. X. To the transportation group. It happens to be the same company that started the b. T. X. Back in 2005. Nat only that not only that, this is the same Company Responsible for the fiveyear delay on the signaling system, and that [indiscernible] in closing, id like to make this recommendation for your consideration. Terminate the t. A. The Program Oversight contract and create a new system. 20 seconds. And the new position would be to review the report, and technical, summarize the report and then come up with a set of recommendations. Thank you. Operator thank you, caller. Chair peskin any other members of the public for Public Comment . Operator there are no more callers. Chair peskin okay. Public comment is closed. And thank you all for sitting through a very long but important t. A. Meeting and we are adjourned. [taps gavel]