Vehicle to get a new vehicle there . Im sorry, supervisor stefani. I didnt hear the entire question. Supervisor stefani i asked if they could retire an old one to purchase a new one. Well, given the under o utilization of their fleet, it seems like that would be a feasible option. Supervisor stefani and what again is your answer to that underutilization not argument, but analysis . So i think were not looking at two different things. Were not looking at not being able to use the cars that we have because the equipment just doesnt fit, and using more staff to transport equipment that could be done by one more in a rightsized vehicle. We rely on the fact that staff follow the policy, but staff grabs the keys and go. Completeri lines complete reliance on the logs isnt indicative of use of our vehicles. Theyre not just used by our officers, theyre used by reentry division, theyre used to transport people to beds in residential treatment, so theres a lot more usage than just the units where the courts are requesting our assistance. Theyre used to come to meetings and then to support our reentry efforts, as well. Supervisor stefani okay. And then, i do have one last question. Im just wondering if you can tell me again why this cut in particular would negatively impact your departments operations so i can get an understanding of what the negative impacts would be to you and your department and then, of course, weighing the concerns that i think have been rightly stated here today. Certainly. So the biggest impact is on our range master having to use his own personal vehicle. Supervisor stefani and could we get a cost on that. I dont know what theyre reimbursing these days for mileage, but is there a cost for that . We dont have those numbers available, but we could run those in the next few minutes or so . Supervisor stefani i would love that to see how much were actually spending to actually have somebody else use their own car, and what is the cost of liability there . I mean, insurance and all of that. Thats something, right . Actually, now that im thinking about it, to be honest, we would need information from the department on how much the individual is spending, additional theyre spending on their insurance and the reimbursement. We could probably calculate those numbers, but i think its fairly minimal compared to the cost of a new vehicle, but if the department provided those numbers we could do a calculation. Supervisor stefani thank you. And one last question. Is there a less expensive s. U. V. That could be purchased . Right. I think the department discussed an electric, but this is a hybrid. This was the price tag attached through fleet, so its just a standard emergency vehicle. Supervisor stefani okay. Chair fewer thank you very much. I think we have president yee here. President yee i think i its not like youre asking for any replacement at this time in terms of cost savings of not buying one of those vehicles. I i feel, from the information that im hearing today, if im going to support purchasing this larger vehicle which gives you one additional vehicle, that as the years roll by, and you need to take some of the vehicles offline on your or youre not using it anymore, that two of those vehicles be replaced. So youre not losing two vehicles, youre really losing one at most because you do have another one now. So thats what i would support. I mean, somebody could tweak those numbers, but if theres an agreement, and your fleet goes somehow down to 15 if it atritions out chair fewer do you mind . Go ahead oh, miss fletcher, i think what youre hearing from this committee is we understand the situation that youre in. We think that it is, you know if we were to say, is this necessary to add to your fleet . Probably not. You could do it, but it would be an inconvenience, also, to take two vehicles. Are you amenable to what president yee has just presented before you today, to reduce your fleet from 17 to 15 as cars go out of service in exchange for this one vehicle that i think you could use for multipurposes. Yes. President yee could i make one more comment, though . Chair fewer yes, president yee. President yee in regards to the logging in and logging out, i could buy that, in an emergency, you dont have time for that thing. But i dont know how you explain when you bring a car back, you couldnt log it, somehow indicated that you used it. So if theres no enforcement, i think you need to let your officers know that yes, maybe when you take it out, you dont have time, but certainly, you have time when you return it. Agreed. Chair fewer youre not the only department actually that is a little lax on that. Supervisor ronen i just wanted to make the point is that if anyone has ever accused this committee of not being meticulous, this shows how serious we take every cent of this budget and how much we respect the feedback from the budget and legislative analyst. So i just want to use this as an example that this is how granular were going to get about every single budget and legislative analyst recommendation that has not been accepted by the department. For you, this is just an example to other departments when they get ready to defend themselves. I think you did an exceptional job, so thank you, chief. But i just want to remind everyone that every dollar that we spend, even though we have a 12 billion budget, means that were not spending it on something else. And the community and supervisors have come forward with 500 million in requests of life or death asks. So it is the job of this committee to make sure that every were spending is essential and more important than one of those 500 million of essential life saving asks, so i really wanted to use that as a teaching moment chair fewer thank you. Supervisor ronen because we got very meticulous and granular about one vehicle, but i hope that other departments are paying attention and recognizing how serious we take this responsibility. Chair fewer thank you. So having said that, i also want to say please extend to the range master thanks for his willingness to use his own vehicle for this length of time, and save driving. It is appreciated. Chair fewer so mr. Controller, can you please note that it is the intention of this committee to accept the b. L. A. s recommendation for this department minus this agreement from this department. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your consideration. Its appreciated. Chair fewer thank you. Thank you. So lets have city planning come up. I think mr. John rahaim is here, and madam clerk, can you please call item number 4. [agenda item read]. Chair fewer thank you very much. So before we hear the city budget, id like to take care of item 4 first, so mr. Ram, would you like to speak on item 4 . Certainly. Thank you, Board Members. This time Something Like an accept and expend. The state is asking us to put forward this grant a specific piece of legislation to highlight this board. Sb2, the grants are specifically intended to stream line the production of housing. So we have been working with the Mayors Office, the housing department, the Mayors Office of housing to put together a proposal. The proposal is 625,000, but half of it could go to the City Administrators Office for electronic plan review which will help us bring our processes into the 21st century. There are other things that i can get into, other policies and procedures that we are putting forward for proposing this grant, as well. Chair fewer okay. Any comments or questions from my colleagues . Theres no b. L. A. Report. Lets open this up for Public Comment. Hello, mr. Wright. Good morning to you. All right. S. F. Viewer, please. Before i get started, i want to give my condolences to the Police Officer female, miss osullivan, that lost her life in the line of duty. As far as housing is concerned, weve been spending money in areas thats not providing permanent housing for the people in need. You have a shortage of Mental Health beds here in the city, but yet, you keep getting billions and millions of dollars every year in your budget. Heres the example of the rates of beds thats divided and its in here and its demonstrated that you have shortage of beds. You have statements made by supervisor stefani, tell us your wish, no matter how big. What can we do to stop and prevent Homeless People from going back on the streets after the opening of your Behavioral Health center. You have explanations from nurses that the best way is to provide permanent housing. I urge you to move the fact that this is a threestory, 144 dlsh unit apartment complex for a bargain price of 56 million. The building on the left, thats 86 Apartment Units at 57 million. Nine times three is 27. You could get nine of these buildings with the 500 million budget, and by the same response, this location, thats a total of approximately 2,070 units that you could use these people with the mental disabilities and disabled people and also Rehabilitation Centers for people on drug problems and staffing the city. [inaudible] chair fewer seeing none, Public Comment is now closed. Id like to make a motion to move this forward to the full board, the meeting of july 16. Okay. Now, lets hear from mr. Ram. Could we have a report from the b. L. A. , please. [inaudible] 201920 budget of 55,164,225. Our recommended reductions to the proposed budget total 378,808 in fiscal year 201920. All of these 378,808 in recommended reductions are onetime savings. These reductions would still allow a reduction of 129,430 or 2. 2 in the departments 2020 budget. We do not have any recommended reductions for the fiscal year 2021 budget, and i believe we have full agreement with the recommendations. Chair fewer mr. Ram . Yes. Thank you. We are in agreement with the proposed chair fewer thank you. Mr. Controller, could you take note of the committees intention to approve the recommendation of the department. Thank you very much. Lets have the public defender, and lets hear from the b. L. A. Please. The proposed budget for 201920 is 6. 4 more than the proposed budget. Of departments proposed budget for fiscal year 202021 is 1,956,902 or 4. 7 more than the mayors fiscal year 201920 budget. Our recommended reductions to the proposed budget total 224,130. Of that, 186,130 are ongoing savings, and 37,800 are onetime. This would still allow a 5. 7 increase of the departments 201920 budget. Our recommended reductions to the proposed budget total 242,792. And would still allow an increase of 4. 1 in the departments fiscal year 2021 budget. Our understanding is we dont have full agreement with the department. I will let the Department Speak to what they agree or dont agree to, but my understanding from talking to our analyst is that they might agree to recommendation 1 and 2 but not 3 and 4, and ill let them speak to that. Chair fewer okay. Mr. Public defender. Thank you for joining us here. Thank you for having me. Matt gonzales. Thats correct, we are agreeing with the recommendations 1 and 2. And just so the Board Members know, we have a plan of what were doing with the 68,000. Were going to have ontheground social workers that are going to be in place. Moving on to number 3, this integrity unit, i cant i cant overemphasize the importance of this. There has been a wave of criminal Justice Reform and mandates for more integrity to the system, but it ends up being an Unfunded Mandate if we cant guide the river back to the people that the reforms are designed to assist, and these are the clients. There are several areas that were going to be working in that this integrity unit areas that well be working in. We asked for eight f. T. E. S. The proposal was two attorneys and one paralegal, and as i mentioned last week, any pennies spent in our office goes a long way. Its the most valuable money i believe that can be utilized in the criminal legal system. We have resentencing hearings that have to occur under sb1437. These are extremely complex cases with boxes of evidence that need to be sorted through. If i could have the overhead turned up, madam clerk. These are the ones in white here represents 38 cases where there are young people who are sentenced to 15 years or more or perhaps longer indeterminate sentences that need to have the work done to determine what their state of mind was at the time of the alleged offense. This may entail extensive analysis, mitigation, school records, family records. Its almost equal to the mitigation work down done in Death Penalty cases. These are 40 cases where the work hasnt been done. So if you look at these youthful offender and felony resentencings alone, we have the court will conflict us off the cases if we cant take them, and theyll be paying the private bar for those cases. We had the will, we had the expertise in the cases, but we really need two attorneys and one paralegal to effectively accomplish our goals in this area, no yeah. So im happy to answer any questions about the integrity unit. But just understand the reason were calling it a broad integrity unit, for years, they werent applying the correct mental restrictions law there are people that werent even there that are doing life sentences. There are people that didnt have a right to a meaningful parole hearing that now have that right, but we have the right to develop out where that persons social, cultural, and mental state was at the time so they can have a meaningful hearing. All these pages, they have to be organized, categorized, and make sure they can be effectively used in the cases that we have, otherwise, all those the flow of the materials isnt going to benefit the client. Thats why we asked for eight positions, and the Mayors Office allowed us two and one paralegal. Thats why were going to do so much with what we have. Chair fewer colleagues, questions . Yes. Supervisor ronen . Supervisor ronen i think if you can take a step back were real ae familily familia 1421, but if you could explain the other two laws and what they are and how they changed the workload and the dynamic just so the committee has a sense of the huge task ahead of it. So with 1437, that was a change in the felony murder law which led to an and the change is basically if you did not have if you didnt act with reckless indifference to life or you were not a major participant in the crime then you should not be youre not liable for murder. So now, we have to go back and look at all those cases. There are a lot of people doing life for murder who did not commit reckless indifference to life chair fewer oh, okay. I am would you speak directly into the microphone, please. Would you mind, public defender, repeating your explanation of 1437 . Yes. Chair fewer thank you. President yee thank you. So theres been a change in the law which states that if you did not act with reckless indifference to life and were not a major participant in the underlying felony then youre not liable for murder. And so those cases where people were sentenced, they were convicted on murder, theyre bringing back those petitions so then litigation to to then litigate to show that that person should not be serving a conviction. This is a case where someone could potentially be walking out or doing life sentences that are coming in. President yee is that a list that you just gave us, this list reflects that . No. This list reflected the people that will potentially be entitled to young offender patrol hearings because parole hearings because they were convicted of sentences president yee sorry to interrupt you. Sorry. I was moving to that next of 15 years or more, and theyre entitled to a meaningful parole hearing. In order to have that, the obligation is on us to provide a snapshot of where that young person was at the time of the alleged offense, which could involve going back in time, getting psych records, family records, school records, getting a psych analysis, going to the former attorney so they can have effective representation at that hearing. So thats a massive amount of work. Ive identified on this case, theres about page, theres about 80 total about half of those are already identified public defender cases. The other half, were determining who it should go to, and ochbviously, we want t take as many as possible, but if we cant do that, theyll be assigned to conflict counsel, or the court will assign them to conflict counsel, but we want to take as many as we ethically can. I think 1421, you said youre familiar with. Supervisor ronen yes. And with 1437, can you speak to how many cases you have to reopen, basically . Weve been getting theres an Outreach Program in prison, so weve been getting a coup couple letters from prisoners a week. We have to review them. At this point, i dont know what the numbers will be. We havent done a review, but its been a constant stream supervisor ronen how long have 1437 been in effect . January 31st of this year. Supervisor ronen how many cases have you had so far . I would say a handful of actually in court, maybe 20 or so that are filed. Supervisor ronen 20 . I would guess. Supervisor ronen so in addition to your normal work of staffing the courts and accepting every client that needs representation, youve had 20 new cases that youd essentially interest to relitigate, you have to prove there wasnt attempt to commit the crime. Yes. The classic case, the get away driver, the nonkiller. But they can still be liable for the life sentence if theyre a major participant or a and they have reckless disregard. Just last week, weve had to put a couple things over, and weve got a couple tongue lashings from judge conroy, so were stretched thin now. Supervisor ronen right. I would say its clear to me that this is a huge undertaking, and i see why two attorneys might not cut it, but what would be helpful to us is if you maybe could come back with as much of that detail i mean, you did it with the juvenile cases, but the felony murder rule change is a Huge Development in criminal law in this state, and it would be good to know what the scale is that were talking about because i couldnt agree more with all of you that these laws are only going to make the change theyre intended to make if theyre if theres the representation make to make use of these new laws, but it would be great to have as much detailed information as we can. And two, the budget and legislative analyst, id love to hear your thoughts more because to me, i you know, i have some familiarity ive never practiced criminal law, but i have some familiarity with you know, i remember criminal law in law school, and this felony murder rule change is a massive change to our criminal Justice System in the state. And to me, two attorneys then seek to reopen all the old cases that we may have going back quite some time seems incredibly reasonable if not incredibly understaffed, so can you explain more your thought process behind this . Sure. So we absolutely are not disagreeing with the importance of the unit and the changes in state law. What were saying is the department does not really know work this is going to be, what the actual caseload is really going to be, so we said, instead of start with two attorneys, start with one attorney, see how it goes. And with the legal assistant, our recommendation is actually hire the legal assistant. What were saying on that position is to adjust it to reflect what we think is actually going to happen in terms of the hiring timeline of january 1 rather than what theyre saying is october 1. Supervisor ronen and did the department give you this list of the juvenile cases . No, we did not see that, but they kind of described the what they expected the caseload to be, but they didnt go into specifics. Supervisor ronen do you want to explain . Yes. We want to hire someone in the next couple weeks, and as far as attorneys, theyre not civil servants, theyre helpful in this area. Our feeling is this caseload would justify the two attorneys. Some of these cases are from the 70s, so you have to to have somebody not familiar with the case now going through and digging through those materials, so its a massive undertaking. And frankly, just the 1421 alone, just organizing that data in such a way that can be useful. The whole purpose of getting these Police Misconduct records and so they can be used effectively in criminal trials and they were wrongfully convicted and going forward. So with all of these massive materials, we need a staff for that. Supervisor ronen to the budget and legislative analyst, with this Additional Information about the juvenile youth offenders and understanding how much weve staffed up other departments to deal with 1421, realizing the public defender also has a major role to play in using that information to the defense of their clients, have you changed your opinion at all today or are you still seeking Additional Information . Were standing by our recommendation. Supervisor ronen okay. So then what i would suggest and ill leave it to my colleagues, but what i would suggest is you coming back tomorrow, and maybe between now and tomorrow getting at much data as possible specifically around the 1437 cases . Because to me, if they can show that between january and june theyve taken 20 cases, that 20 cases for one attorney which for these felony murder cases seems legitimate to me. So im wondering if they can come back and prove that to you, if that would convince you to change your thoughts. Wed be happy to take a look at any Additional Information that they could provide. Sorry not to chair fewer oh, i im sorry to interrupt. So i just want to give the suggestion that you dont have to come back tomorrow. And what i would say, if those members on this committee now and the b. L. A. Would like that information, that you can make that Information Available to us without coming back. And if you dont mind, supervisor ronen, im going to call on supervisor stefani. Supervisor stefani thank you, chair fewer. Thank you, mr. Public defender for being here today. Just one question. Was this an unfunded state mon date when 1437 and 1421 was passed. Unfunded as far as we didnt have any positions for those. Supervisor stefani so was there any Grant Funding or state funding or anything like that . No. Supervisor stefani okay. Great. Thank you. Chair fewer supervisor yee . President yee basic question here. Some of the work other departments have asked for additional staffing, and we concluded that some of those requests would be, rather than permanent positions, would be temporary positions. This is one of them where at some point, we catch up with all those backlogs of people that qualify now that are already incarcerated. Would you then need these attorneys or as many attorneys to do the work . With the 1437, at some point in the future, we will have exhausted those cases, although thatll be a while. With the youthful offender, we have to do that going forward, and there are other positions in the state that are doing that extensive litigation work. The further away you get from the events, the staler the information gets, the more difficult it is to capture what that Young Persons state of mind was at the time, and thats why we really need to get going on that work now. So it is the type of thing thats ongoing. And as there are more reforms. President yee this is something not completely related to what were discussing right now, but its a budget issue. When you take on a client, we assume that they cant afford it and so forth. Do we actually ask people whether they can afford it and whether or not if they can afford an attorney, then were not appointed. [inaudible] maybe i wasnt clear. The defendant fills out a form, and then, the court makes the decision whether they can afford it or not. President yee that was my question. Heres my thinking. Im im seeing these numbers of people, cases that are not being dealt with, and then, youre talking about those other cases in which for the six months, youve seen 20 or whatever, that its going to climb, that i would probably support the ask. I think its fair to say that maybe you could come back to the board of supervisors and report how many annual cases so that we could continue to support those positions. And if we find that the cases the caseload that youre anticipating isnt really materializing, then i think if we hear, that well ask you to cut it. Absolutely. I think were going to be very good at documenting exactly what these positions will be doing. President yee so thats our ask, that you have to come back annually to let us know how many cases theyre actually handling for this new unit. Chair fewer okay. Thank you very much, president yee. So i will just personally say this, is i dont think im hearing consensus. I started the immigrants Legal Defense fund in your department. I think one attorney, one aide one paralegal is ample to start this huge, huge project. So what i am going to ask is i am not going to ask you to come back, but i will ask for you to provide this committee and the budget legislative analyst with the information that theyve requested today. And i will deliver i will ask my Committee Members to take this into consideration. You know, i know that we get a document from the b. L. A. , and we go wow, how much work did they put in . They put in a lot of work, much more work than any of us on this committee. Mr. Public defender, i think you dont need to come back. Weve all voiced our opinions on this. But i will ask that you provide the information to us, and i will ask the controller to note that it is the intention of this board to citizenshaccept recommendations on 1 and 2, but we will deliberate on 3 and 4. So if you dont mind, i think thats the direction id like to take. Committee members, do i have consensus on that . President yee i didnt make a motion, but i think its fair to wait a couple of days. If it proves otherwise, i will change my mind, but if the numbers show what im talking about, im sticking to my guns. Chair fewer thank you. Im just thinking this is something new, and i dont think all of us understand about 1437. So thank you for sharing the information, and if you dont mind sharing the information with b. L. A. Thank you. Chair fewer thank you. Thats great. So lets have the Sheriffs Department now. All right. Mr. B. L. A. , could we have a report on the Sheriffs Department. Yes. The departments budget is 5 more than the original fiscal year 201819 budget. The departments proposed 268,461,282 budget for fiscal year 2021 is 2. 8 more than the mayors proposed budget. Our recommendations to the propos proposed budget total 126,167, 50,000 are are onetime savings. In addition, we recommend closing out prior year unexpended encumbrances with a total general fund savings of 129,40. Our recommendations to the proposed budget for fiscal year 2021 total 322,962, all of which are ongoing savetions. These reductions would still allow an increase of 7,995,912 or 2. 7 in the departments fiscal year 2021 budget. My understanding is we do not have agreement with the department. I do not believe we have agreement on any of the recommendations, so ill just walkthrough them quickly. So the first recommendation is to reduce request for senior Legal Process clerks. Thats recommendation number one. The departments requesting three new Legal Process budget clerks in each of the two years, so that would be six total positions over the two years. Just based on our knowledge of the departments ability to absorb new staff, we believe that instead of adding three in each new year, we recommend adding two in each new year for four new Legal Process clerks in total instead of six new Legal Process clerks total. The Department Already has currently has 32 senior Legal Process clerks. Our plan would allow 34 in the first year and 36 in the second year. So were saying yes to the addition, but not quite as much proposed. The second is related to the department requesting two new 1241 Human Resource analysts in 201920. Our recommendation is to allow for one new position instead of the two new positions. The the approval of one new Human Resource analyst instead of two would allow the department to have one Senior Analyst position as well as one analyst position. And the next is recommended to a line item for c. B. O. Services the department carried forward unspend dollars from c. B. O. S of 519,000, and 300,000 of that was specifically to reentry programs, and based on their spending to may 2019, theyre going to underspend their c. B. O. Programs in the current year, and also ill note that our recommended reduction is only 1. 7 of their total budget amount for c. B. O. Services. Im available for any questions if you have any. Thank you. Chair fewer thank you. Sheriff hennessy. Thank you very much. Im going to ask crispin hollissey to go through a presentation with you. We came last week and talked with you about several proposals from the department, one of which including the expansion of Pretrial Services project. So on reducing over time, the controller issued a report yesterday, one the controller referenced last week when we were all here. It was its titled strategies to help reduce the reliance on overtime. And from 2016 to 201718, total hours of work decreased 13 primarily due to work order and training requirements, but this pushed up the proportion of work outs from 14 to work orders from 14 to 20 , and they also noted the harmful effects that come from working overtime. The department agrees with the findings in this report. It is our priority to reduce overtime. One of the also in this report, the proposed solution is includes civilianizing 39 positions, and reading from their report, would allow the sheriff to reduce costs and improving staff in Law Enforcement functions. So this would move deputies to Law Enforcement functions. This will reduce overtime. The report suggested that we civilianize 34 positions. In the budget, we propose that we civilianize 24 positions. In the budget, this got whittled down to 7 positions in the coming year. This delays civilianization, it decreases productions and increases our personnel costs. By shifting sworn staff into civilian positions, were replacing these sworn staff with lower lower salary rates, and then, we are replacing the overtime with regular fulltime on a oneforone basis. We believe and our overtime budget came down as a result of moving these positions. And then, next, on expanding the services of of San Francisco pretraial, the budge supports reforms. It does not anticipate funding of federal court order which may come soon. This is a potential for addback funding. And then, it also does not include additional add back potential add back funding to increase security of pretrial population. The b. L. A. Recommendation reduced pretrial security by 500,000, which basically eliminates one pretrial position. So for and then, actually to show you how pretrials workload has increased, we bring you back to a chart we showed you last week which shows our out of custody pretrial population going up 10 under the care of the sheriff, and then alternatives to growth in incarceration. These are items that Case Management needs to deal with. And with that, were ready for questions. Supervisor mandelman chair fewer, i have one. So im actually i want to thank you trying to get a handle on your overtime issues and coming forward with proposals to do that. My sense of the b. L. A. Recommendations is that theyre not based so much on the right direction that youre moving in, but if your department is capable of moving as quickly as you want to move. So in the first in the positions, they seem to be raising the issue can you hire quickly enough to actually get these positions in place. And with regard to the pretrial c. B. O. Funding, theyre seeing the money that went unspent this year and wondering why would they give you more . Right. I believe we can hire these people. I believe that was one of the concerns of the Mayors Office, why they reduced that from 13 to 6. I think thats why they did that. We can handle 6. Were a department of 1,000. I dont think theres a problem getting those people on board. Supervisor mandelman c. B. O. Funding go ahead. With regard to that, we have about 350,000 left in c. B. O. Funding. That was because we had a training project that we had some savings. In our work with the Mayors Office, our plan is to Carry Forward that funding to fund that pretrial, to fund that Additional Services for pretrial. Supervisor mandelman and that program is going away . No, thats sticking around, but we have savings from this fiscal year that were going to carry over to next fiscal year just to fund these additional pretrial positions. Supervisor mandelman okay. Thank you. Chair fewer okay. President yee . Preside president yee in your presentation, you went kind of fast, but you mentioned in civilianization of positions, that this helps reduce the over time piece. Yes. President yee im sorry. So i think, then, it was just sort of a trivial question for me. If this is a reduction in how much do you need for overtime, then, a reduction are there any in this budget book, its not very detailed, so its hard for me to really read it, but was there a reduction in your overtime line item . Well, there are a lot of moving pieces. The Mayors Office gave us budget for training, so we could have a staffing also to replace overtime. But in our initial ask from the Mayors Office, we had a certain level of overtime, and that was reduced by the same number of hours for this civilian position. President yee can you please explain. I dont understand that. So the our proposal is to bring on seven civilian employees roughly halfway through the year is how its been budgeted, so that equates to about 3. 5 f. T. E. S for next year times about 2. 5 hours per f. T. E. , so thats about 7,000 hours, so we reduced our overtime ask by 7,000 hours in order to accommodate this shift into civilian positions. President yee so if i were to look at the budget line item for overtime, it should have been reduced for year 4. Well, there were a lot of moving pieces, and the mayor gave us additional overtime to bring on to increase our training, our Academy Class, essentially really, to fund an Academy Class. President yee how does that work . You need overtime to do the Academy Class . Well, we need the dollars to do the Academy Class. Its essentially, these people, they come in. Theyre with us for nine months. Theyre not becoming theyre becoming deputies, but for the first nine months, they dont count toward the minimums, but we need the dollars so we can bring them in and make them productive employees so they can then substitute out hours with regular fulltime hours. Preside so even when we hire people, we still have to wait nine months before they actually count against minimums. President yee right. And were still filling backfillng those people. President yee right. But in addition i mean, but thats consistent for all. I dont know why that would change in terms of did you have did you have no training last year . I had to i had to cancel my mandatory training in october of last year because i didnt have the funds. Yeah. The reason we came here for an overtime supplemental is because we were struggling so much with our training. We were ultimately able to bring that training down to a level where we cut out all non all discretionary training so that we could give that overtime supplemental money back to the budget. Thats also being carried forward into this years budget. So supervisor, one of the things that i think is important in the Sheriffs Department, police department, fire department, the overtime is pretty much the same amount, straight time as an f. T. E. While we got funded for f. T. E. S, we didnt get the money behind that in some cases, so were trying to get that money behind that so we dont have an overtime percentage of 15, 20 , which is unmanageable, and weve been struggle now for the last few years with that, and it creates a number of operational problems. President yee and im im just trying to figure it out, but im not completely following it seems like what you said, theres a lot of pieces to overtime, which makes it hard for me to sit here in a minute and figure it out. Maybe b. L. A. , do you have any comments on overtime . Was there any savings in overtime, then, we should be able to pay for the overtime piece to add to the civilianization. I have something to add to that. In the last few years, our budget staffing has been going down for 1 . That still accounts for the overtime, but we still have to go up a little in overtime to continue to work in these positions in order to bring the overtime down to what we have. We could paint a picture to show you how the overtime came down as a result of these civilian positions. There are also if we add all of the nuances to this picture, youll also see an increase,