The hot team can refer people to the navigation center, those stays are limited to 30days. The majority of people staying there end up on the street after 30days. When we look at the people going to the navigation center, the numbers are not significant. We look at the numbers coming out. The persistence of homelessness is a problem of political will until the public understands the city needs to invest in housing, this problem is going to continue. I think we need the Police Department to educate constituents about this instead of saying police can get people into services or perpetuating the idea the members of the public have that polices is the solution, it is crucial to be honest with the public. President turman is the Police Department perpetuating that idea . Are we telling the people that policing the homeless is what we are here for, we can get you into these services . That is not us. That is another department. As much as i agree with what you are saying, i am glad to do our part. What you are talking about is beyond our control. All we can do effect the orders given to us. You can change the order system. We are glad to do that. That needs to be said. President turman you need to go to the Mayors Office or dpa. We are at the bottom of the chain. We cant change that. I think that, you know, to address that point briefly before getting back to my last light and turning it over to the director of the coalition. Many of us have seen a lot of neighbor meetings where people are trying to placate the neighbors who want to call 911. The reason we want to show what is happening with this type of polices is that it is pervasi pervasive. Whether or not people, officers want to do it, it is happening and it is having a harmful effect on Homeless People. Regardless of what people are calling 911 want people to think. So i think there are things we can discuss further. Briefly, what happened to our survey respondentses when they got the citations . The majority couldnt pay them. 62 ignored the citation. At the time of the survey it went to warrants. City data show in 2014, 132 Homeless People were jailed for quality of life. The citations added up. They were incarcerated for being in public space. No one in this room obviously wants this. That is why the da has as of 2015 stopped issuing the warrants on the quality of life citations. I will turn it over to jenny to continue with what the coalition is asking of the commission. Thank you. Hi. We are going to get to the recommendations and the stuff that you were mentioning, but i wanted to talk about quickly the impacts of the citation in terms of the big change that happened to make sure you all were clear on it. In 2015, previous to 2015, the courts were issuing warrants and civil assessments for unpaid fines. About 120 then, of course, when people dont show up for court those warrants as well. They were doing both. We did put pressure on the courts and this other stuff was happening. They changeid it, which was the right thing to do. It is illegal to punish people. They moved to the civil assessments. So now whereas before you would get 300 assessment the fine goes to collections agency, the arrest warrants are issued. You could potentially be arrested in you have a number of warrants. That ended in 2015. Now it is the 300 civil assessment. That still does have a significant impact. The professor covered the impacts. I want to point out one piece of the impact the vulnerability and force displacement creates a barrier to services in terms of working without reach workers. When people are moved around and are on the cass of getting housing and they lose contact with the outreach worker. Property confiscation is huge. You think it is dpw. That is not true. We have a truck in the tenderloin and witnessed the sfpd involved in property confiscation. You lose medicine, from the Mental Health perspective other kinds of things people are losing Survival Gear sets folks back. That is something that sfpd can certainly address and follow the property policy that is implemented by the aclu and Lawyers Committee not followed by sfpd. The context professor covered really well, but i want to move on. President turman what are you asking of us . Sorry. The recommendations we have a number of them for you all and commander is going to be talking more about what is going on with this. We want to look at dispatch protocol, exam that. If it is not a police issue, meaning a safety issue or something outside of the context of sleeping or resting or being homeless and present we would like to shift that up. If i am the public and calling to say there is a homeless person. Now the city is going to send a police officer, and we want to look at that. That is not appropriate use of resources. President turman your recommendation is we dont respond or shift it . It should go to the appropriate responder, psychiatric crisis without violence, go the Homeless Outreach team. The commission there is the infrastructure is not there 24 hours a day seven days a week for that to be done. President turman currently we dont have the infrastructure. At some point during the day that is possible. It is about building around that, is that correct . It is building. Some of that is being done with the three one one. Those are routed to the proettesiate city again appropriate city agency. What she is asking not 24 hour, seven day an week availability for that dispatch. President turman we could work with the homeless and city agencies to talk about building this protocol so it is an ongoing concern, we can do that, right . Correct. We want Community Education on costs and limits on policing homelessness. We hear positive a lot from the Community Meetings that we cant ticket our way out of homelessness, but we hear the opposite message as well which, you know, which isnt helpful. President turman the opposite message . Encouraging residents to call the police when Homeless People are present and they will remove them. President turman who is doing that . I mean there is. President turman not from the department . Yes, from the department. President turman our Community Engagement people within form the community when they do the Community Meetings about the appropriate channel to address these issues, is that correct . Yes and also to dispatch. President turman go ahead, chief. I think part of that is education on 311 and 911 calls period. President turman lets educate. That is up communitys alley. Encouragement of discretion. Admonishments rather than citations whenever possible. President turman that is in our control. Is that something we can work was the coalition on . Yes, we can work on that. I think the coalition is aware of this. A lot of these issues in the infrastructure go beyond what the Police Department can control. I am not saying these are good or bad ideas. We will work with you on those issues. President turman there needs to be another partner in there . Yes, we are working on that. President turman find a partner and work on it. Supporting alternatives like increased services and decriminalization and denouncing the antihomelessness issues. If the commission weighed in on you are one voice. President turman what do you want us to weigh in on it with . You can pass resolutions and make proclamations. The commission is a very respected element of the community having them fighting for more services for Homeless People would be helpful. I am turning it over. President turman commissionr marshall, let me go back to the one about who you call. This has happened several times. I run around the property. I have kids around, women on my staff, i have a preschool right next daycare next to my building, and for me when i go back to them and they are concerned, who can i tell them to call . The first person they called in the past is the police. It works. Who shall i tell them to call . First to be clear from our position. The very presence of someone who is destitute is not illegal. It is just another member of our community. If someone is in need of help, we should call the appropriate person for help. If there is an actual criminal activity it should enter the Police Department realm. That is our position. I have kids, i have them with me all the time around Homeless People all the time. I raised my children in my office surrounded by Homeless People. You know, just the very presence of Homeless People. Homeless is not a crime. Next. What is missing and i know you did a great job and thank you. When people call the police, they call the police and this is every neighborhood throughout the city. The chief and i had a meeting that shocked me with their concerns about homelessness in their neighborhood. It is those under the influence, those that are in psychiatric crisis that pose a threat and danger to people with children, to the elderly and the businesses that is the other half of the equation. The truth of the matter is. It is such a drain on the San FranciscoPolice Department resources to deal with this. It would be unanimous our officers dont respond. However, what do we do with the situation where i walk the entire city. Walking out of my parking garage. Tomorrow morning there will be at least 10 to 12 people under the influence because of opioid or methamphetamine, breaking into cars, hanging around the garage. The officers are talking to them. Get up, get moving. They are there. It is not fair to them they are in that situation. There are needles all over the place, children going to School Walking through the neighborhood. There are two sides to this equation. At some point the police have to become involved because social services are not doing their job. We are not getting these people off the street. The police have to get involved. We are society. That requires rules and laws to protect everybody. You are missing that part of the equation. Being homeless is not a crime and should never be. Everywhere we go, merchants are complaining. It is not just San Francisco, it is everywhere. It is affecting the city, tourism, most of the homeless i have seen. Most of the people on the street that i see in the morning are addicted to drugs or in psychiatric crisis. We have to help them. Sometimes it is the police. You are not addressing that side of the equation. The citations is dismissed by the judge in sauc saucilito. He did not care. We want to be compassionate. It is not working. I appreciate that. I dont see the two sides. I see it as moving towards solutions that work. That is really our framework. Often times what happened with the police with the time they get there the person is not there. What a waste of time and energy the entire endeavor is. What works. You mentioned a number of different things. A lot of the things that work are outside of the Police Department realm. I dont want to go too deeply into them. There was a newspaper article about a woman half naked screamed at a kid. Those are the situation also. When that happens you have someone in crisis. There should be a number of steps taking place. We have lost a lot of Mental Health system and seeing the results on the streets. It takes a lot of work. From our perspective it is not twosided. It is what are the solutions. That is how to move forward. We know and the department of justice knows and it is recognized the citation route is not working. We need to try something different. That is, you know, this is part of the puzzle. President turman i agree. Thank you for your hard work. We have a question. So i want to thank you and your team and the commander and the police defendant. We are asking to reform the dispatch protocol when they call to say someone is on my stairs, i want that person gone they can refer it to Homeless Outreach other than sending a police officer. That is a great idea. Community education. When our policera there they can educate how much it costs to do this. Maybe not in the same breath say call the police. We can do that. Use discretion is most important. Trying to reduce citations and utilizing admonishments, not criminal acts, community possessing. If they have discretion and can do that, that would be great. These are things to work with. You are educating me and the people watching us and the commission. I think it is great. It is clear. We are not talking about criminal activity, we are talking about the things we can do to reduce the Police Response to homelessness. Commander is going to talk about the Advisory Board on homelessness. We are working on all of these things. I am going to forego my 11 page 2 hour presentation on homelessness and get to the. It is available for the public if they would like to see. President turman you hit the nail on the head. The support of housing and public health. They are on the front lines interacting with those that need help and getting them to the services they need. We as a Police Department are compassionates. You see the statistics less enforcement and more referring. As Police Officers we are gaining rapport with people referring folks to outreach. Vice president you covered the other half of the presentation to say the San FranciscoPolice Department gets 5,000 calls for Service Every month that are homeless related. 1,000 additional calls we initiate when we interacts with the homeless. Our plan is to get the individuals the help they need. We see arresting and citations. We are Police Officers and enforce the law. When we see them in Case Management and stabilization and support of housing, that is the win. That is what the Police Officers are doing right now. To the last point we have been working closely with the coalition on homelessness and partnered on one of the Advisory Boards to look at this issue. Our primary goal is to work to train our dispatchers so when the Police Dispatchers receive what the public things is Police Related call they can educate about who should be involved and what our strategy is. We are excited about the work we are doing on that. I will take your questions. That would be good work. Lets start getting people directed to services, directed to the people who can help. You know, to say the appropriate person is probably a long list in there. We need to sort of make this list concrete so our dispatchers understand so we can start educating out. When this type of issue, when you see this issue with a person who is homeless this is who you call, no the the Police Department. We also need to on the enforcement. We need to talk to the dpa and find out what they can do to solve the issues without involving the police enforcements. Commissioner marshall had something. I know you are in a hurry, sir. Since i have a chance to be educated. I want to know what should i do . I really do. That is why i am bringing it up. It is not a crime. I know it is not a crime. There is an issue, little kids coming in and out. It is a point where they have to say you go do something. What should i do with my staff, how should we handle that . That comes up with a whole bunch of folks. That is what i was looking for guidance here. 7500 homeless in San Francisco. People are concerned about it. We broad brush homelessness. We have criminal activity, mental illness, substance abuse. In an emergency dial 911. To Vice President s point they are taking the clothes off in the street, in some sort of mental crisis or committed violence that is a Police Response, get the ambulance and get that person to the hospital. In those emergency situations we see it. For the other situation where this person needs help, they are homeless, there is an encampments that is three one one the one stop shop phone number in San Francisco. Download the app and take a photograph and send it to 311. I want everyone to know that if it goes to 311 and it is an encampment it goes right to public works and they address it. If a person needs a wellbeing check it comes to the nonemergency to be dispatched for the police. That is something in the future we can address that is currently the system is 311. The answer is 311. To be present and homeless exhibiting none of these two extremes, you do nothing. The person can be there. That is not anyones issue. The person can be there. If that person is not causing a disturbance, not taking off their clothes, not threatening themselves or other people, they are just there. You do nothing. You educate the staff, a person has a right to be there. If they are not doing anything, work around them. I would add the reason for the 311 call is to say the person is doing nothing, please send the Homeless Outreach team to see if they can help them. That is the calls they get as well. They will make that decision i guess. Okay. Any other questions for the commander . I would like to get an update in the future to see how it is going. We will call you back with an update. Thank you very much. President turman i appreciate your comments, you were very helpful. Everything you talked about, pay no attention to me because i am old and sick. Everything you talked about is both achievable, laudable and we can get there. We just need to keep working together. Thank you so much. What is next . Public comment on item number 6. President turman the Public Comment by the department and the coalition on homelessness. I have something for you. And i have been holding these for a couple years hiding them to make sure you all got a copy of the fancy once. I will get those. I am a human rights organizer on the coalition on homelessness and was part of working on that report. One of the things that has been coming up a lot and does come up. I feel like i have spoken about it before is where, you know, i talk to officers on a regular basis. This morning i was talking to officers down in the encampments, and they get calls from 311 and they go down there and they are telling people to move along. The problem is there is nowhere to go. I was asking that question. They ge get tired of hearing it. Where can the people go . They have no answer. I know there is no answer to that. We currently have right now as of yesterday it was 1155 people on a single adult shelter wait list. That is just adults, that is not families and children. The average wait for a child to get into a shelter since january was 111 days. We need tobr to look at the larr pictures. People want this magic card. Everyone wants the magic card to hand someone to help. I am asked constantly. There isnt one. There arent the services to back that up. Certain things that an example of different ways where the police could have come out. This last year the prop q with the tent ban would have been a good opportunity. The police are like they are to be offering housing. There is no housing. Right now people are asking officers, well, prop q went through, you are to give me a notice and an offer of services. That is not happening. There arent any services to offer. Yes, we need to look at the Bigger Picture and look for solutions. I have 30 seconds. We were looking with the library a while back, a couple years back, and we were advocating for social workers. Within the first year incidents decreased 50 percent. That speaks a lot. When you are going with the right solutions. The citations bottom line they dont work, it doesnt work. Thank you. President turman thank you. Any other Public Comment . Public comments is now closed. Item 7 Public Comment on all matters pertaining item 9 below including whether to hold item 9 in closed session. We are about to go into closed session and consider personnel and other litigation related items. Is there any comment about us going into closed session . Okay. Seeing none. Public comment is closed. Secretary kilshaw. Administrative code action. President turman we are to go into closed session to consider several items. I will entertain the appropriate motion. Moved and seconded. All in favor. Any opposed . Members of the public we thank you for joining us for the first part of the open session of the San FranciscoPolice Commission meeting. We we are back on the record in open session. You still have a quorum. Please call the next item. Item 10 discussion on item 9 held in closed section. I move not to disclose. President turman second. On the question arent we prohibited from disclosing this no matter if we want to or not. We have to make this motion. President turman moved and seconded all in favor. Any opposed . All right. Next item. Item 11 adjournment. President turman members of this commission tonight we close the book on the commission in 2017. We are concluding our calendar for the year and we will be back on january 10th. It has been a challenging year, it has been a hard year. But we accomplished much and there is still a lot to do. Lets work as productively together as we have been able to do in the past. I look forward to working with all of you in 2018. 2018 in one capacity or another. And i thank you for all of your time and attention to the commission and to the goal also of serving the people of the city and county of San Francisco. I want to thank you and the commissioner for your leadership. It is a difficult year. We do what we have to do. I want to thank you for your hard work. And we hope you get well. Thank the chief, too. All in favor of adjournment. Aye. I will make a motion to adjourn. Second. I vote no. I will go with the majority. President turman all in favor. Any opposed. Thank you. We will see you on january 10th. All right, good afternoon, what a Beautiful Day it is in our city and every year around this time, we see more visitors who are coming to San Francisco to shop. We are a destination shopping place for people and while everyone is shopping we want to make sure that you have a really great and enjoyable experience so today well talk go all the Additional Resources and things the city is doing to make sure that experience is the greatest one can you have and do your shopping for your family and all the people you shop for and just last week, we actually had the Lighting Ceremony for the snow flakes and as we go in to the Holiday Seasons, theres several more events that will be taking place and most importantly, is to make sure while you are down here that you feel safe and that you really enjoy what you are down here for and so at Public Works Department, we are going to be adding a lot more addition al resources here downtown especially from the hours from 11 00 to 9 00 you will see more street cleaners around here to make sure that you know when you walk around everybody is clean and your trash cannes are clean and well add some additional steam cleaning and night crews will be here making sure that the city is presentable for the next morning and so were going to do everything we can to make sure the downtown area is nice and presentable and you will hear from our police chief he is going to talk a little bit about safety and the man who heads this and the man who started this program 17 years ago when we started with nordstrom there was a small group started this during the holidays is no one other than our mayor ed lee, please welcome here. [applause] thank you, muhammad, mr. Clean. You know the theme of course every year in association with our Union Square Association our chamber of commerce were here today is that we want people to experience safe and clean holidays and so yes, well invite and union square attracts millions of visitors every year and theyre not going to ever get less because this is just a center piece for our city and so we expect hundreds of thousands of people to be here over the next four weeks and it adds over 6 million just in the next four weeks to our economy and it works because our Police Department is very alert and of course theyre going to give a lot of hints out but people just have to be smart when theyre bringing their families and their friends in from town down here just be alert and listen to every piece of advice that the chief, his commanders, his captains and staff because theyre walking this beat along with all of our wonderful, beautiful, red embassadors that are behind us. [applause] and theyre a delight to have and theyve been growing over the years to accommodate all the families and people that are down here with information guides about where to stop and where to get the best bargains right and also, just being here at this Winter Wonder land i know karen is excited because this wonder land grew out of the need to have a place that was outside of the construction immediate zone or to change that zone for the holidays so john is glad to do this more tor yum and well talk about extended construction later on and during the central subway construction, i think we used our innovation to really Work Together to invite people down here and hose up that construction for a period of time which starts now and wont end until after the new year but this is calm and quiet and you will hear less about construction and more about the voices of our family and kids and people just excited to run through here with all the activities on Winter Wonder land were here to make sure its not only safe but clean, welcoming environment, helpful environment and there were be hundreds of thousands of people down here thankful a Wonderful Fund and were encouraging everybody to take advantage of this Winter Wonder land and all the excitement that happens and also shop locally and make sure you spend time and all your merchant corridors is this is a center piece of it and its also clean and fun and making sure everybody is safe so congratulations everyone, and for all those that are going to be visible, thank you because the visibility of the officers on the beat will calm everybody down and just be alert no matter what part of the city you are in and drive safely and dont drink and drive, thank you. Thank you, mayor lee, we cant do all the great work we do without this partner is our fine San FranciscoPolice Department they work with us and they make sure that we are all of us in the city are protected but most especially the work that the Public Works Department does and i have to say for the many years ive worked for city government, our chief who joined us the way he is running the department and changing things and everything is working better so i appreciate that and i appreciate that partnership you know, welcome to scott. [applause] good morning, thank you. So im going to repeat a couple things that have been said and first of all, this is my favorite of time of year because the mol day season is it about tradition and family and community and none of this can happen without us as a community im talking about city partners, the department of public works and the Publicprivate Partnership we have with the bids and the embassadors it has to Work Together so i want to talk about a couple things about our traditions and one of our traditions that we want in this city and we must have is that when people come here from where they come from and they come here from all over the world, we want them to have a safe experience and a safe and clean experience and i was out here on saturday night with my family i had a great time and i got here too late for the beer garden but i was off duty. I was off duty and i missed the beer garden but he had a great time with my daughter and she brought a friend from out of town and it was a great time but more importantly, what made me so happy is that i saw the city working like it should be working. We had officers everywhere they were engage and we had people cleaning the streets and it worked like it was supposed to work so thats what we want to promote. We want to promote a tradition of safety, cleanliness so people enjoy their time when they come to San Francisco and they enjoy the experience so they bring their families and their friends and couple of things of safety tips and some of this is basic and you will hear this repeated, we dont want anybodys Holiday Season to be torn apart by being victimized of crime, so a couple of things, first of all, when you are doing what you do shopping or just enjoying the city, take a break from the cellphone if you are going to use it use it responsibly and Pay Attention to your surroundings i know this is a life line but Pay Attention to your surroundings i cant emphasize that enough. Also, when you are shopping, when you carry around your package and when you are using the a. T. M. , again, Pay Attention to your surroundings, if you are using your a. T. M. And putting your pin number in make sure you shield it so people cant steal your pin number and make sure if you are going to your car, that you dont leave your valuables open where people can see them and get to them and break in your car and steal what you worked so hard to buy and that is a basic thing but you would be surprised just how many people forget to do that if you return to your car, get some thought to move your car to another location and sometimes people that are out to do harm they will watch you put your packages in the car and you resume your shopping and come back and your things are gone so make sure you do that and the mayor mentioned that we want people to have a safe experience when you walk across the street and a simple thing, obey the law , obey the traffic signals, dont cross against the red light, dont cross against the red hen this is a simple thing but you would be surprised how many people dont take that simple advice one of our goals here in the city is to reduce pedestrian and fatalities and that is a simple thing that will help in that regard and also if you are driving the mayor mentioned it, this is a season of festivities and theres a lot of spirits and a lot of good spirits around but you dont want to do that and get behind the wheel of your car because thats not going to help anybody and its probably going to hurt more than it helps so if you are going to drive, drink dont drive and be responsibility with your use of alcohol in terms of your shopping habits, its always good to have someone with but, also with your packages if you happened to have packages mailed to you from where you are maleing them from make sure that you understand there are people that will steal your packages so i was at may sees so coming is delivered this week but i want to make sure i take precautions to let me neighbors know that things are coming or whatever so people will look at for each other. Look out for your friends, neighbors and watch out far each other and again this is a Community Season so its all about caring about and looking out for others and being responsible in whatever you decide to do this Holiday Season so thank you. [applause] thank you as the chief said, awareness is everything so you should always be aware where you are at and what you are doing. If you need to make a phone call if its an emergency, call 911 and if its a quality of life call 311 and well respond. Nothing happens without the partnership of the community and the next person i will introduce ive had the pleasure of working with throughout my time at public works but her work in the private sector forming many of the Community Benefits district and they create the embassador program that we see here that is here to help people but they also make sure that the areas are clean, they make sure theyre free from graffiti and 9 downtown is pren able and welcome from the Business Improvement district. [applause] thank you so much and welcome everyone inform union square and our Second Annual winter walk were so delighted to have you here and im executive director of the union square Business Improvement district and we strive to create a positive experience for all the visitors who come down here and clean and safe is our montra during the holidays. I would like to thank the mayor ed lee for your leadership on clean and safe issues all year around and muhammad may have mentioned i had the pleasure of working for mr. Lee at the maintenance yard so we were cleaning up the streets then and were still cleaning up, right mayor . And i had the opportunity to work with muhammad at the yard and still today and muhammad, thank you for your partnership year around and this area has never looked better and we thank you so much for sending the fix it team down here weve been working with sandra and paint the polls and remove unwanted furniture from sidewalks and paint crosswalks and it should look really great for the holidays down here so thank you and of course, we have beautiful hanging baskets now thanks to muhammad and the gateway here to union square which is never looked better with the holiday lights so thank you and last but not least, i cant forget our partnership with the San Francisco police chief chief scott has been an incredible partner this year giving us additional beat officers were up to eight officers that walk the beat every day work very closely with all of our embassadors here in red to create a strong Publicprivate Partnership together so we believe we may have some funding coming through my staff has worked hard on filling out paper work to also allow for Police Officers, if i say that and everyone collectively cross your fingers on that one so, good news to come and it is my pleasure to lead the staff here of our Public Safety hospitality and cleaning embassador standing right behind me in red so look out for them during the holidays and theyre here to answer questions and point the direction to tourists to shops and restaurants and let them know where theyre going and they help with quality of life issues and they wipe off from gee tee and they sweep and paint and hmm the city comes through and Additional Resources on the cleaning side on the safety side its just amplifying our effect even that much month sore we can make union square shine so come on down for the holidays here in union square, shop, enjoy the restaurants and the winter walk will be opened every day from now until new years from 8 00 a. M. To 9 00 p. M. We have two beer gardens this year weve got food trucks as you can see behind me and reindeer scooters bring the family down and, shops so come down and enjoy a wonderful, safe, Holiday Season. Thank you. [applause] thank you are, karen. And outside of the shopping season, theres a lot of projects on the drawing board and if you have gone down to Holiday Plaza you might see plantings down the rail and theres decorations that we will put up and theyre getting ready to do work on the tunnel so its a project the Public Works Department is in and the better Market Street the improvement for Market Street we hope will break ground on but theres a lot of opportunities and lots of designs and lots of work that the whole city family is doing and in closing i want to thank mayor lee for all his leadership that he brought to San Francisco you know, i have worked for mayor lee for 17 years but what mayor lee has brought to our city is really all the city departments talking to each other, working with each other and doing team Work Together we make a lot of progress so mayor lee i want to continue to thank you for your leadership and bringing us all together and really you know no lines all of us in one place and trying to make the city a better place for everyone. So that will conclude our press conference and enjoy your shopping and this is the season and come down here and theres the winter gardens, theres union square, theres all these beautiful shops here and spend some money and enjoy the Holiday Season. Thank you very much. [applause] could we get everyone to rise and please pledge pledge of allegiance. I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Mr. Secretary . [roll call] quorum is present. Ok. Closed session . Do we need a motion to go no, were just coming out. Coming out. Ok. If theres any members of the public that would like to