2 2 2 2 2 since the start of the war on guys, on october 7th, 2023. Many people around the world have been appalled by these rarely response. Yes. October 7th saw the depths of more than 1200. 00 innocent israeli civilians. It was the worst terrorist attack in his really history, but israels response has been heavy handed. And in the words of the United Nations genocidal. More than 35000 palestinians had been killed by his really forces so far in the conflict. And most of them had been women and children. Theres no end in sight to the conflict. Here in the united states, the initial shock and sympathy for his really civilians quickly dissipated with the fast rise and civilian deaths. Thousands of students set up in camp. And so on, university grounds, calling for peace, and for the universities to divest from investments in israel. The logical next step would have been for University Leaders to engage the students in a conversation and perhaps to consider their demands. But instead, the protests which had been almost entirely peaceful, were met with Violence Police arrest and students by the hundreds. They fired tear gas and rubber bullets, and they forcibly uploaded the 10th encampments, destroyed them and threw them away. Even worse, many of the universities led by columbia, had the students charged with crimes including criminal trespassing. But if a student is trespassing, that means that he or she cant go to class and worse, it means the student cant even go to his or her own student housing. So not only were the students arrested, they were also essentially thrown out of school and made homeless. It was a pattern that soon was repeated across the country. Our guest today has followed this issue very closely. Hes been on campus with the students and has written about developments extensively. Were very happy to have chris hedges with us. Chris is a Pulitzer Prize when journalist, who was a Foreign Correspondent for 15 years for the New York Times, where he served as the middle east bureau chief and the Balkan Bureau chief of the paper. You previously worked overseas for the dallas morning news. The Christian Science monitor and National Public radio. Hes the host of the show, the chris hedges report present. Thanks so much for joining us. Were glad to have you. Thank you, john. Chris, id like to begin with a very powerful piece that you wrote for Consortium News about the University Demonstrations at the very start of the article. You said a scene where the campus at Columbia University is locked down, police of sealed off the entire neighborhood. Nobody can get in or get out why were seeing so severe. These were Peaceful Demonstrations aside from a broken window and a little bit of graffiti. Why the heavy handedness . Because these universities are not responding to the internal realities of these peaceful encampments. And there they are. Responding to external pressure uh from powerful donors who support the design is uh, from uh, the administration, the democratic party. Uh theyre, theyre not responding to the reality on the ground. So in fact, of course, theyve exacerbated the problem. Theyve made it worse. They have sought and unfortunately the media has echoed this to define these encampments as an assault, or are i against israel against jews . Ive been in several of these and cameron so many times in columbia in princeton. And i would say 30 or 40 percent of the people demonstrating our jewish. Uh, in fact i found it quite moving. They both at columbia and at princeton. Uh. They hold a friday evening prayers and then they hold about services for all of the students. And then on sunday, actually im ordained, actually priest one sunday at the service up at the princeton and cabinet. Oh they sir. We serve communion to everyone. So its, its really moving. Uh, but thats why they, uh, uh and, and, and, and that of course says in rates as it should, these student protesters be as administrations, are not only not carried out in kind of, in, with very few exceptions. Carry out any kind of meaningful dialogue of but theyre using direct pony and floors probably. In the case of colombia, we saw police enter uh, renamed hamilton, all hines. Oh, with their guns drawn in facts shot was fired inside. All a student was not thrown down the stairs and knocked unconscious. People have been beaten you. So thats the reason the reason is theyre not actually responding to whats happening internally on their own campuses. Theyre responding to their attempting to play to external pressure. And thats why you saw the president of harvard and university of pennsylvania to do them any good. Theyre both gone. Ill go down and grovel like the president of columbia before these right wing troglodytes in congress. You make what i think is a very important point in this article. Columbia universitys president minutia feet is a british egyptian baroness who may her career in places like the bank of england, the world bank, and the International Monetary fund. She was in no mood to negotiate or even to have a conversation with students who were demanding change. Is this actually a class conflict edit score . I would say its a, its in a way. Yes. Um, its so universities and of course ive taught at columbia, princeton n, y u and a few others they are, they have been corporate to us. And so they are now run on a corporate structure. So in the case of to fix it doesnt come out of academia at all. She comes out of the corporate world. She comes out of the world of finance and they, they build, theyve, theyve reconfigured or to form these universities a long corporate lot. So you have highly paid administrators. These are people pulling down salaries and hundreds of thousands of dollars will often come out of the corporate world. And then you have, this is not so much true at the very least private universities. But it is true at most universities, you then have the, the burden of the teaching of falls on the shoulders of adjuncts who essentially replicate workers in the gig economy. They have no job security. They are actually paid by the course and not very much. Uh, 4000. 00 is not uh, the is off in the north. So theyre, theyre making 24000. 00 a year without benefits. But theyre carrying most of so they replicated the corporate model. They have attempted to monetize departments at the university where they have to raise their own money. Not only for research, but often for salaries. Well, thats very hard to do in the humanities, which is why the humanities are withering away. And why you see an increasing emphasis. And this is true at a university is like stanford or princeton, which are private universities. You focused on stem and science, technology, economics and map. And that is what the corporate world and i should add the Defense Industry wants. So some of this reaction i think is engendered by the fact that the people running these universities dont actually come out of academia. They are not scholars. They, they have been for a, by the corporate world. And corporate hierarchies are of a very talent, terry, you, you are not allowed to, if you work for a corporation, have any opinion that the corporation deems uh, controversial or unpalatable. And that is also what is infected universities across the country. One of the things that confused me from the very start of the demonstrations was why administrators didnt just let them run their course. They started near the very end of the school year. Students were going to go home at the end of the summer. They were gonna graduate or start summer jobs or internships. So why the arrest the expulsions and the desire to snuff these demonstrations out because their job and im talking about the administrators and the president s. Their jobs were in jeopardy. Of course youre right. I actually was speaking at the encampment at princeton and somebody came up with a megaphone, it was mine and held it. There was a few 100 students. And uh, there was a ban on amplified sound. Theres also a ban on tense. So these poor kids are sleeping out sometimes in the rain wrapped in tarps and blankets. Theyre not allowed to bring sleeping bags. And so the Campus Security came over and, and didnt stop. And then they, um, i couldnt see it. They were behind me. They started moving to arrest me and the students got up and linked arms and surrounded me to uh to prevent it. Um, uh, but of course the whole reaction has been again for an external audience, not an internal audience. I. And when i was speaking afterwards to the head of Campus Security, i said look, you know, you said let them put their tens up and deliver them. Pizza is every night for precisely the reason you just set um, but in fact what they have done is, uh uh by not, not only not responding in a meaningful way to the demands, but by using this kind of outsized forest the cross here it is that it spread like a wall far um and that is uh, but again its because uh at, for the point to point out, uh they, uh they, it, a rational response would have been the response that you just elucidated. But this is not, this is, theyre not responding to the kids. Theyre not responding to what happens on campus. I mean, you know, theyre, theyre arrested for trespassing. But these are students who have a valid ideas. Theyre ready for trespassing on their own campus. I mean, the whole thing is you can kind of make it up one of the things, one of the lies the University City and put these leaders have used to justify the crack down. Has been that there were what they called outside agitators. People who were not students, but who went to the demonstrations to provoke violence. Its my impression that this was a red herring, that there really were no outside agitators. What was your experience . Well, there are people from the outside who joined the protests, but this is a student driven protest. So what theyre attempting to do is say that its not, uh, you know, it doesnt come its, its not born out of the university setting, but it has been provoked by people on the outside. That, of course is completely untrue. Just like the idea that these cabinets are somehow anti semitic, or anti jewish. In fact, of course i would say to students who receive the most harassment are those your students who support the and cabinets from zionists. But we have seen a series of not only with the violence by and his mob against the in camera that you see a way, but at columbia and other places, people have been jeered, pushed, punched in any case. So we have 3 former Israeli Soldiers were students at columbia use gunk, spray that is in french, are these railways, its a very noxious spray. They sprayed 3 protesters on the steps of low library of columbia. And i think thats another frustration on that, that the wheel assaults are being carried out by designers and their overlook. And then of course, the group itself, or the king camerons themselves are mischaracterized as you point out, as being run by outside agitators and mischaracterized as being anti semitic. And this is just really a way to divert and the media. Of course, my old employers in your time has been off on this. It is a way to divert attention from the fundamental issue, which is the genocide thats taking place in gods prison. Id like to ask you to stay with us. Were going to talk about some of the effects that were seeing in the media stemming from these demonstrations. And im including the so called independent media. Were going to take a short break, but stay tuned. Well be right back. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the the the welcome back to the suppliers. Im john 3, ill go. Were speaking with chris hedges. Hes a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who was a Foreign Correspondent for 15 years for the New York Times, where he served as the middle east bureau chief, and then the bulk and bureau chief for the paper he previously worked overseas for some of the most Important News outlets in america, hes the host of the chris hedges report. Good to have you with us, chris. Thank you john. Chris, you have what i consider to be one of the most important and informative programs in independent journalism. Its called the chris hedges report and has been available not just on your subs deck, but also at the Real News Network. You recently interviewed former congressman dennis goosenich for the show dentist is a serious political figure, a long time peace activist and even a former president ial candidate. But out of the clear blue sky, the Real News Network, a major independent outlet not only decided to drop you, but also removed your interview with dentist percentage. What happened at the real news was this a result of outside pressure. And i can only speculate what happened or why the official reason was that the interview was dentist, as well as my own show jeopardize their non profit status. Nothing that i said with dennis i did not endorsing which would have jeopardized non profit status. They couldnt point to any examples of any show that ive done or that was true because i havent um, uh, but the, they really have one major funder guide mtm scruggs. Hes come for me before i wrote a column for share post defending alice walker from charges that she was an anti semite. And he demanded that the publisher of the post bob should remove the article, or he would revoke the funding. He was a major funder for the site. Bob refused, and he cut off the funding. He has told the real news, according to max alvarez, runs the real news that if they do anything to contribute to the election of donald trump, they will lose their funding. Thats just an inverted way of saying support joe biden. And the democrats, i have been a long supporter of 3rd Party Candidates. Indeed i was ralph naders speech rider. He knows that uh and a dentist is running as an independent dentist and the interview was critical of both of the parties. And so that episode was removed and then i was in my show was immediately terminated. But this was part of the diminishing space within the news industry member or a decade ago, myself, matt, t r e b, glen remote, we were main street. We. We have voices within the main street. Thats all been shut down to you when you have wealthy donors controlling new sites is true and so on. Its which was founded by david talbot and its inception was very good alternate and other sights. Um then they, uh, essentially destroy, i would call it any kind of journalistic integrity. In fact, the voices of people like dentists, its important that we give a platform to the voice as those voices because of the legacy media, commercial media blocks them out. They, they have no platform at all. So thats what happened. Ill reconstituted and it wont be, itll just be a technical attic, but it can be reconstituted. And i would say, you know, the other thing that i find very cynical is that i drove most of their traffic. I mean, no shows at hundreds of thousands of views, several shows over a 1000000 a few shows over 2000000. Theres nothing on the site that comes close to that. But what they care about obviously. Ready the money, not the content. The. Lets talk specifically about the percentage interview. I watched the interview and i kept waiting for him to say something, outrages something offensive or dangerous, and of course he didnt. He was his normal self. So what was it that the Real News Network was objecting to, or did it really have nothing to do with dentist goosenich way . Had it tangentially, it has something to do is dentist. And that hes not running as a republican or democrat. And also the fact that he was critical of both binding and trump. Uh, and that was just unpalatable. I mean, if you read the statement, it was uh, they cancel the show because i might jeopardize their non profit status, which is ridiculous because the shows are not alive their, their pre tape, if there was anything i said to jeopardize their non profit status, it could be corrected or they wouldnt have to run it, but i wouldnt do that anyway. I mean i understand the rules, but i do think it is important to give a platform to people like dennis. Hes a very serious politician. Serve many years in the house, as you said was a and a war president ial candidate to credibly thoughtful a former mayor of cleveland. Um, uh so yeah, i mean, i think this is unfortunately the power of donors. Um no, there was nothing in the interview. It was, there was nothing incendiary at all in the interview. It was quite as thoughtful, careful reason, discussion of our political situation and the kind of a death trap that weve been forced into with these 2 major ruling parties. I mean, having worked for nater, i saw how the 2 ruling parties conspired or conspire to essentially make it impossible for 3rd Party Candidates for independence to mount a credible campaign. And they do that because theyre funded by the same forces, Northrop Grumman and race, you know, out in Goldman Sachs and citibank and everyone else. Um, so yeah, it was, it was, it didnt make any sense. I mean, there are the reaction, of course, has been quite fierce against what they did as it should be, because i didnt violate any rules or norms. I just waited into a discussion. And i, i dont know this for a fact, but they were, you know, pretty strongly suspect enraged their principal, donor. And they decided that that donor was more important than myself. But because they, they wanted their money. And where does independent journalism go from here, chris . Its tough enough to make a living as an independent journalist, its tough enough for those outlets to raise enough money to keep going. How can they and how should they confront outside pressures to either skew the news or shut them down . Well, the only model left the works is clearly the model of the wealthy donor doesnt work. We tried that a truce big. We had a wealthy publisher who funded the site and then she tried to fire the editor in chief box. Here i organized a strike among all the 2 of the staff, and then she fired all us. The site still exists, but as a shadow of itself, i dont think anyone reads it, nor should they. Um, so the model is the subscription, so im on subs that, that article that you spoke about, the nations conscience originally came out on sub stack. So some people pay like 6. 00 a month and that funds might work that works. Thats how thats how you be survives. Thats how glen green will survive. Surprised. I think its difficult for people who are known quantities to get enough of a subscription base to continue their work that worries me. So young journalists, you know, i, when i began my journalism career in the early eighties, i freelanced for all sorts of newspapers that had, for i was overseas in central america, a freelance for the Philadelphia Inquirer, the baltimore sun, the boston globe. The Christian Science monitor National Public radio thats dried up that even that freelancing work is dried up. Um, so i worry, i worry about the state of journalism, especially on the local level. Um, uh, yeah, i think its a, its a serious problem. I mean, those of us who have established reputations can get enough subscribers to be able to do our work. Uh, but i think thats because we to come into the public consciousness as known edits and um, yeah, its a, its, its very frightening. And i of my entire career, i have seen the collapse of an industry, however fluoride and i work for publications like the New York Times that have many flaws. However, the, you know, the death of charles, maybe the major city papers now or a shadow of what they were. I was in the Philadelphia Inquirer news room. They actually sold their building. But before they sold it, they used to have 750 reporters and editors. They were down to 200. 00. So that meant that more than 3 quarters of the desks were empty. It was really frightening. Really, here i drove home. The point of that journalism as an industry is collapsing, i mean everythings going down, vice news. I mean, i dont read sports illustrated. Thats gone. Its yeah, its, its and, and, and if my friend sidney sandburg, if ever seen that killing, feels was based on his reporting with just brought another friend in cambodia. You know, he was pushed out of the New York Times. But he said, you know, we may not have made things better, but maybe we stop things from getting worse. And i think thats right. Because once a communities, once the police department, of course it goes dark, theres no outside observer at all. Then we see an escalation of the abuse of power. So yeah, and then lets not forget julian, the so they, the persecution of to innocence is done quite consciously, to essentially intimidate and shut down any investigations into the inner workings of power. And, and the persecution of julian, or what niels smells are, cause a slow motion execution of doing a search in bellmarks prison, where its now been held for 5 years. Is a message to the rest of us, it doesnt matter is not american. It doesnt matter where youre from, what national it now, what do you from . If you expose the tribes that we commit, then we will find you anywhere in the world, expedite you and put you in prison for the rest of your life. I mean, to see i discussed worse than that. Of course they discussed, kidnapping him while he was seeking refuge in the ecuador, an embassy in london or assassinated one final question about the situation in palestine. Chris, youre in old, middle east, and is there any opportunity for peace in the midst of all this devastation can you envision a change in Global Public opinion that could result in these re lease or the americans finally allowing the palestinians the same rights and freedoms that these release have not in the short term um, but in the long term. Yes. Uh, i think that the, uh, the older biden generation, they have a kind of an emotional tie to is real. I think we see now and im speaking, of course, even among american jews, those ties are no longer there is real, has been exposed for what it is in apartheid state that carries out either a slow motion or in this now and draws a very fast motion ethnic cleansing and genocide, i dont think thats recoverable. But in the short term, especially because we give them billions and billions of dollars of weapons. They can decimate carson and there are those within and that in yahoo capital want to turn around, decimate the west bank in the short term. I dont hold out much hope in the long term, i think is really which already has a kind of pariah status as essentially created a putting in countries in the united states. A generation that no longer has that kind of fealty to israel much less the etiology is i so so, but unfortunately for those palestinians in gaza, i think the situation at the moment is pretty bleak for his head. Just thank you so much for your time. The former israeli prime minister, golden, my ear once said disingenuously, that piece could be achieved in the middle east. Only when errands loved their children more than they hated israel. I would say that the opposite is actually true if these railings that must give their palestinian brothers sisters and neighbors the same respect and rights that they demand for themselves. And here in the united states, the government, the universities, the media, and indeed all of American Society must practise what it preaches, whether for themselves or for palestinians. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the west of lowest. Im john curiosity. Please follow me on subsets at john to reaku. Well see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the a good one. Yeah. That you attempted to exit a month. I thought she sat there for the show and then it will be a job to loss mitigation. And all of it is a International Law for the defense of the supplement is such a button and not to mention that, but someone did you lose . It asked who i cant. If i said the media, i know people theres only 2 reasons to do. Say, was the b service of the dealers for the work it done stimulates the industry on. Is it whats money from sales . The deluxe. Should william farmer shots might give us who we have good cash door to door or decision. They might not have it. What was that man was, what was that ridiculous problem is the best one today and but you left off that closer look for an additional to settlement shows total suspect pretty show can was on page. Did it for shes getting those are best do what i mean. Theres a this accomplish after the, i think the on to you here and all of the international hungry reveals to serbia. Europe is apparently making preparations for potentially entering the conflict to get into brain alcohol. Nato calls on its allies to allow the key of strikes deep inside the russian federation. Celebrating itself as africa day is marked across the continent. Modern india treatments of independence and prices to the shock of colonialism. Also in the program is america at a tipping point. Us in the family and as the challenges of a civil war in the states is now up to 40 percent. However, experts say that number is low, things might get a real sick i think the probability is more in the 70 to 80 for