Prospect in ukraine im joined by my guest over desires in geneva. He is an author and former un independent expert on International Order in brussels. We turn to appear emmanuel. Tom, mom, he is electra at lee on university and in nice we cross through alex become well rich. He is a veteran reporter and Foreign Affairs analyst, or a gentleman cross cycles and effect. That means you can jump any time you want. And i always appreciate it, i would somebody go to you 1st in nice because youre in france, so nice. So i started out with the french president here. He says hes advocating a form of strategic ambiguity. And then he says, under the conditions in which he will send troops, his troops, they tow troops, somebodys troops, i dont know of, and those conditions, are it kids lines break, or they a request is made, prized zelinski. So it, i dont see that is m b a and beauty. I find it confusing and certainly very dangerous. Go ahead, alex, find the beauty, right. Its one of 2 things. Either you dont know what youre talking about. Really funny because you see like its, its, its that simple going along the lines. You can say hes gonna send troops and if a line breaks or if you create, makes a request. Well, i think you create would have already made that requested that i had a chance to make a request. These me is, or youll find the sky ideas. And i felt like little napoleon here, hes, hes pushing out all these ideas to, to need a while later was really not going back to in the morning. You talked and he said, politician, nobody wants to go until you create a official. Now the other side of the court is we know that since 2014, they couldnt use the americans, the french, the british, everybody stayed on the ground in ukraine, nevada officially. So what does this make of what the process of staple makes a big difference . Actually when you look at the different maddox for your face, when you say youre basically on the ground, well, that takes things up a level and thats what people are sick and tired. We need to stop this type of rhetoric. We should be pulling back. We know what the situation is on the ground. Winds have been broken time and time again because you crated it, backing off their backing off their minus be broken very quickly and solidly in the past few months. So why would background say this posture . I mean, you have germany, which is the economic engine of europe, and then you have france, which is the most hardcore military, lets say the troops or existence or the military gear. And youre the armstrong, you know that both france. But that does not mean that you shouldnt be rattling that sort as much as i get rambling it. I hope that the president , she told him a thing or 2 about this call to actually run these days. Because i need to sometimes have the adults in the room and we know when back from that with him, we all looked like the adult in the room. So lets go back, lets stop playing these uh, you know, the slow your games with one another. Lets get some solution. Yeah, i agree, alford, you know, the, but if you look at the, the, the predicate of the crown statements and hes got his all over the place. He actually was very conciliatory in the beginning of all of this. Now hes trying to be the hoc in nato, but you know, itd be the, the way the conditions that he said they know if the lines break. And this owens, he makes the call. Doesnt that tell you that the ukraine is losing and maybe they should try a different strategy . Alfred, as well obviously of credit is losing and they know what theyre putting themselves on under pressure. And this makes me think of another french napoleon i fully understood who did not stop provoking the impressions and his arrogance, uh, watched them eventually, doctors a face to declare war on prussia, which he lost in 6 months now. Um, we dont ones that we have no clear states that can destroy not only themselves but the rest of humanity. So you need to break the gridlock. You would need to break the break as you need to accept the fact that the whether we liked it or not, we live on only one planet and uh, we cannot afford to continue with escalation. What is not only mat crohn whos mad it is joe biden . And anthony, blinking and all of phillips and his born minister and recei. Uh so like, um this 4 minutes or um, uh, david camera on there. Oh. Using very belligerent rhetoric. Well, i mean, okay, now the other 2 brought up a camera on ill go to appear menu. Well, i mean, he very loosely said, you know, that you, you, craig can use whatever british weapons they want and wherever they want, even against rush i brush are proper. And then the, the, the, the response to that is that the russians are saying, well, they will respond to any use of weapons that use against rush are used by the ukrainians. If its use in ukraine or even beyond ukraine. Now that is getting Serious Business here. Go ahead peer emanuel. Yes. Your looks like and not chief of for our western states, and we tried so sort of trying to take the lead. Know of the and not chief for underlying got to are you create a new will be the winnings along the russia should lose football. And this is not the up thing on the grounds. So regarding the Public Opinion or the, the very relies there being a top 30 misinterpreting risk of crises from the beginning paper. No. This, they understand more about or, or if its not cheap, less fate. And the images and much more like overall wisdom the just been dont know what to do more to, to still appear as critical or andrew are the way the filed is to increase or the, your okesha narrative like crew pushing troops on the wrong, the beating the size or hitching your territory of russia or vote from the french, fun of you, your good or so these are in town or the debates in france wed be a mixed and set you up and part of an approaching wherever the politic are brought. To remind you that and by cool is very, is gonna lose the butter because or how somebody in pond us through an art is made or position be so we still bothered on buying looking . Oh is no, but dollar dollars votes expected from the bought to you have made money very much. Okay. So the money in my car would like to great falls to be not cheap of being very strongly international. They dont have very many. Well, let me ask the question, do young uh french soldiers want to go fight in ukraine . Apparently theyre already there. So im, i mean, i, you would be the, the, the general staff of france will allow them across to make that decision. I mean, or even the people make a decision here that the same, this the stikes, the mistakes are so high for someone pastoring. Yes, thats right. Of each center was because, or it looks like youre this narrative is increasing and the rising mistakes only in the end. We dont know because to look pretty border or image youre not home, might to be your feel obliged to do something to do it tuesday and really troops officially we dont know. But for many general are seen for us. Experts saves you, shes, shes, are, you will be a disaster because france has not become of any teach with strategy come big. You t, your need, the, your immediate or recovery beatitude behind. And for us as is not ready for, i entered city war. And this is why it is so denture was renewal, but we also already some instruct jobs on the grounds. And of it tried to hide these fact and the question is, would it become Office Charge with troops on the ground . And the, even though weve been minimum reverse of troops or each would be a disaster un, under most a french peeper, does that really . But the main politic are properties of position does that really . But, but it would be scenario tv, student going on. So i think on to the end of, for your pin it actually has made, made, well, i mean, you know, it made it was good and let me go to alex back and needs. It was pretty pathetic if youre doing this kind of calculation based on europe and elections that the stakes are much higher then these elections coming up here. You know, the problem alex here is that the chrome keeps saying russia should not be allowed to win. Is that a strategy and what about ukraine . Go ahead. No. I mean, thats a big question and i, what are the say the rest of wants to take over . All of you create that has never been the, the, the idea. If anything, the 1st move is a key was to do the exact same thing that the americans did announce the cool government. And basically put somebody else in charge with a little bit more common sense. The people that are running the show at the time for russian to take over ukraine. Again, thats not a Strategic Value to reference goals, all the to the that theyre holding the land and the russian speakers with their that lost their rights to speak their language, ross butler, just to teach their, their kids russians to watch the rights to have their signs up and russian, i mean, these are, these are things that we see happen around the world when you are either ethnic cleansing or youre pushing people out of an area. So uh, what russians did was defending is people of people that could identify themselves as russian does rush. I have a, a, basically some sort of idea of going to the very end of your credit of inquiry about missiles pointing out at your brushing distance. Dont have to go up to the border of the youtube to hit their target, just like western mrs. Dont have to go up to the board or russia, but for some reason, they thought it would be a good idea to expand the needle, you credit, which is the biggest level of land next to russia all the way up to the border. And we all know, i think we all know that were sitting here and the people that are watching this. We know how this started. We know that there were negotiations on the table that this never had to happen. And they all came from the west, us and friends, and in the head of young people, ive been talking more forever honest with you. I dont see all of this is the 99. 00 a month. Thats the bottom line. We have special interest groups. The United States and beyond that, were making a lot of cash for the best. And at the same time, a lot of people are dying and they dont have to send americans. And when they can use, you could use as content and ponder and those ports abilities are going through. This are absolutely no reason this cant stop. Well, alex, so they can say to you, before i say with you before we go to the break here, what happens if french troops start dying . What is background going to do then . What they say that the pressure mercenaries of what it well, the power and leave him, they say is already there. They say the forwarding legions already. There are of the formulas everywhere. And you and j. C. Up to the canadian aspects of horses or wherever they are in 2014 and im sure theyre, theyre there to, to some degree right now. Just like probably all righty. Im still going to have a jump in here. Were going to go to a hard break, and after that hard break, well continue our discussion about you can stay with our team, the, [000 00 00;00] the russian states. Never as tight as a phone and the most sense community best. Most all sense and up the in the 65 with the keys, 195 must be the one else holes. Question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the rushes to day and split the r t supposed neg, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services, which they just basically steve and twist which is the welcome at the prospect. Were all things are considered . Im peter roosevelt. True mind you were discussing. You create the okay, lets go back to l for it in geneva, which is this for every action. There is an equal reaction in the reaction build this loose rhetoric that we have heard of, particularly over the last few new cycles or rushes decided to and start to exercise is, is a, uh, a new killer drills um for that. Um, uh, duper as a precaution because of the very provocative language coming out of western capitals irresponsible language. I would say, i think we would all agree, but say there is a reaction and this is an escalation. Dont western leaders understand that this is a reaction to their loose rhetoric, alfred or uh, no, they do not want to understand. I mean, they live in their power level world are parallel reality. Uh and the public. The masses are subject to re length last spring washer. I mean, and its not only new york times, washington post, and then right, well down defined its, i dont even hear in switzerland. You re nonsense in the no, i have to over to the title and organizations like mine, im in the dba. International Peace Research institute, the get rate, we have pulled out a blueprint for peace and ukraine. We have sent it to the r o. C h in the hall in burn. And of course you know that we in switzerland i most was visited. We are going to have uh, in may and do this so called peace conference of the building and stuck on lake road south. Now they are going to be a lot of blueprints for piece. The 10 point plan off. Uh, sure landscape is delusional. Absolutely. Uh, disconnected, uh, from reality. But, uh, the 12 point point plan of the chinese is good. The 10 point blind of the africans is good. Uh, the International Progress organization has put up a very good plan also told francis had put out a plan. So there are ideas out there. And my hope is that if enough states participate, obviously russia is not going to participate. Thats clear. But if uh, say the presence of china and india and south africa and brazil and mexico, etc might lead the conference to this car. The 10 point applying of isolated scale, its totally unrealistic. I start to look for possibilities of a compromise. Well, it is, its interesting now for that, you mentioned a member of the countries around the world, the energy individual, the pope, in organizations that have a blueprint to start the process of ending this complex here. Im going to go to appear menu. All right. Now, um, but no western leader does that no western lead, no one in nato. Does that and putting into nausea, right. Hang on, perfect, hang on, hang on, im putting, so now you ration, he said russia remains open to dialogue and its up to the other side to decide how to move forward appearing menu. Well, i mean, where is the, the, the piece plan from the biden. People from cameron from sergeant schultz, where is it . They never use that language of, of ending this conflict and maintaining security for all players. They never talk about language. Go ahead and brussels. Yeah, so unfortunately for ive seen it in european Member States of natal. Im not through the silver ring anymore and resp or are they your . I think they this feeling more or while you are g 2 up to your us or why you are to be 0 attempting system and with a run ca, wed be ne, to vent within independent voters. And this is like your, the, your pants are competing to be the best artist of washington and are trying to also at the same time to see the vacuum in case of the trunk will be inactive because they seem to the United States with the less um, less itd be present in europe in office, but thats a sick time. Very your, the photo, the main, your part of the car objectives of, of washington. And its likely they want to find a nice in to be sure. Or the hey, monique, of washington in europe and to, to, to found vale own leadership weaving, or vis systemic or the west on the dominus, weve out to try to find any, your end of this conflict because were menu. Well, i, i dont want to, i dont want to be too insulting here, but is there any leadership in europe at all . I mean, you know, you see this from a crown. He is, hes is channeling his entered the gall. He cant find it. Um, cameron is no churchill, i mean, where is leadership in europe . I mean, theyre all replaced. Well, you could take the Prime Minister from finland and put them in italy. It wouldnt, no one would notice. Go ahead go exactly. It would be closer. The better to kind of cross easier afraid very your low quality to be frank. Those seems to departure of the voting for us on more more. Youve been seeing prison in the front. Small more lines on the i would say are under sex on the water. We go to bed heavy or independent voice and are image even more cool so it doesnt have any experience of the read crises of low for shock. She and i was there last president with experience in war and are they use it . They dont understand this new merchant put on war because they come from in the ideal g. Carter butler, a francis, should do. It takes the lead, vis europe and the project. But the e. U is dependent on a tool and west of the maintenance under the can be done on the stand up to position them serve in this new emergency put on work emerging. Were actually due is losing power on the side only in a growth cvt closed. The speaking of the young, aggressive out the way we have the polish official them wanting to host the American Nuclear missiles on their soil. I mean, what country in the world as we know, we want, we want to be a target for in a nuclear war. I, i just, i cant understand that whatsoever. Why would you want to do that . Unless you want to just curry favor, you want to, you want it, youre giving a nod to washington. You, where are you . Where are you guys in europe to get differential get the germans . Poland will stand with you. I mean, this is insanity red and the russians are not going to react to it. Really go ahead and why dont we need to talk . Suppose people instead of the post politicians withdrawal, obviously, but i dont think the if he talked to anybody thats as low as 80, were here a year of a, theyre both. Oh, youre very different story to their feelings to whats happening in ukraine. Theyre, theyre still in some sense in the you added your but if you look at the end of the line, theyre looking at the hungary, if youre looking to grace and you listen to some of their politicians, these are people that have seen it, especially the crisis i get outside of the utah the serve use you know theres, theres this whole. Ready mythology, that serbia somehow attached to, to rush to like it, divide them delafield court. Its, its not there. Theres people that are pro and anti rush and serbia as well as increases. But these are countries that see war, they know what its about, that theyre politicians that are now leading. Ready stations know exactly what happens and they know that its, its something to be avoided, go little bit north, the hungry. Then you just got a politician there, a man running the show that seems out a lot more common sense that when you start from the west. Well, you alford, it seems to me with all this loose and dangerous rhetoric coming out of western capitals out of nato land here, their primary objective is to keep it going, in lieu of doing something else. They dont know what to do. So what, whats the option . Keep it going until the last ukrainian is gone. Alfred, it was going to be back when the last 2 great and is gone. Because what do you do at that particular point . I mean, the sooner or later you have to accept that this failed the same as the us incursions in vietnam, failed. Same as that your was incursion in afghanistan, failed the yours, does it very easily, just turns the page. Nothing ever happened. We forget it. We leave a mess behind, but the europeans, they are in a very difficult position. There are intelligent people like dominique to the box who have uh said, very intelligent things. You have in german, a guy on shore and blog, and several older politicians, but theyre not in power. There is a total disconnect between the elite, between our so called democratically elected leaders, and the people as the masses of the people in spain or friends, or nearly they dont want war. Nobody wants more, but their leaders are making money. Their leaders are how exec in the service of washington or wait one day, historians will tell us. Or if youre with lawyers that can explain that to us today would be useful. But uh, we are just postponing uh, the moment of proofs. And im very concerned about miscalculations at that time when ukraine has really been defeated. What they yeah. Well, its interesting, perry, manual i, i, ive often said on this program. You know what you, what you often hear the phrase future historians will explain to us how we got here. But i dont think we really need his story in the future. Were going to need psychologists. What was wrong with these Decision Makers . Why did they make the decisions the way they did . Theyre making decisions against their own invested interest, their own peoples interest. And there was security because at the end of the day, for the russians, this is all about security and know your opinion leader is talking about security. Its amazing to me. Go ahead, parent manuel. Yes, its we remember. Lets remember, always fame was book the sleep woke up from christopher cock, all we arrive. Oh, the 1st world war is tots each and do each countries a different interest to be before it will be a low kind of war on venue. Read came to with 1st of all because we were miscalculations. Are a lot of properties on the, from all sides there with lying in the newspapers, to what people are. Thats no, actually the people are, they want to find the right information. We are to not keep sides, so need to and thats yukon and do mobile or peeper. For example, for us very read the more more i tell not cheap p expos, whichever choose to what people are. And thats why the elections hes going to be already. Itd be good the surprise or, and do also, or many military expos actually would be lying on tv, on the read situation. Because theyve been paid to say that, that they dont know what to do. They dont know what to say anymore because what research is not happening and are very, very find only a growth cvt on the well large and were gonna end up selling or were going to end the program on the same road that we started it. This is all strategic confusion and were all going to pay dearly for gentleman thats all the time we have a want to thank my guessing nice brussels and engineers. And of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. See you next time and remember across the rules, the, [000 00 00;00] the, the really, it was story the, the got the full, im on the board. Thats where i can use vows. Originally, you spoke to the senior boy menu on the show you as a general facility based in yet periods, which are likely to escape photos that any vision is going to have, look up everything and grab it up. Still bundle ski at the at the site. The goal of this, when you look at the new yeah, that is that side of it is leveled there. They use a c assessment. Ready this form was 0. Is principal level pursuing in nearest the blue bush and you for that any percentage of the flemish happens or somebody to pay today. You would cease to come in, you have to just catch the senior the after the end of world war 2, Great Britain decided to make up for his losses with the merciless exploitation of its colonies. The plundering of the occupied territories. Have my la, devastated as a result of decades long fighting extremely hard days in, grew ended. 1948. The Colonial Administration was forced to declare a state of emergency in response patriots. United him to the malay in Peoples Liberation army and began a guerrilla war london. Decided to suppress resistance, georgia and mass deportations. Executions of civilian n, sprain of chemicals, scale being, and cutting off heads. These were the barbaric methods the british used trying to get my la within their advice. The massacre in the village of baton gully, committed by the scots guards against the unarmed beds caused a particular stir. The entire male population became victims. Trying to suppress the gorilla movement. The occupiers relocated 500000 people to concentration camps. For roses, drill deep or its fruit. The patriots were scattered. However, the british experienced the strength of the malay resistance to the full extent. The british army losses in the la where the largest since the end of world war 2. In 1957, the British Empire was forced to recognize my la and independence. The resilience of them a late people put an end to the history of british colonialism in southeast asia. The a wave of violent protest crashes over europe, where University Students are demanding their alma mater, cut all ties to israel over its compartment. Ive got that the children there who are under the age of 2 and a suffering acute many edition. One out of 3 children is suffering from famine and gaza. According to the us just comes as israel is Ground Invasion of rock or bring more civilian casualties. Suzanne battled on place too,