A transport plane. As a result of the 40 hour operation, Indian Forces were able to rescue the entire cargo crew and captured 35 symbolic pirates. So thats it. Youll find them today with all the lights just from around the world. Do you feel free to, to resolve come from all stories and analysis . Id be to scott and to buck again at the top of the, the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the hello and welcome to the cross talk where all things are considered. Im peter live out. Big talk, empty words. How else to interpret the contradictory pronouncements coming out of european capitals on the subject of ukraine. Bluster and threats are not a coherent policy. In fact, it is an indication of panic. Meanwhile, remember, russia does not love it at the cross talking ukraine. Im joined by my guess, Anthony Webber in words. And he is an independent political commentator in belgrade. We go to stephen gaiety. He is a Research Associate at build rates, institute of european studies, and in the list when we cross alexander guerrero. He is an International Legal analyst. Right. Gentleman cross black roles and effect, that means you can jump in anytime you want. And i always appreciate a steve, and let me go to you. First thing in belgrade as an outside observer, like i am of all of this going on in europe a whos speaking for whom, and what is the message when it comes to ukraine . Steven, that is a very good question because we see a lot of move walkers here who are sending different messages. And i think that is because they are in between the natal agenda, which is escalade story. And if the situation of ukraine and with there are really 3 industries, were going better, they would probably even be more aggressive. And on the other side, they have their own people who have no idea why the, how are their armies already involved when it comes to sending aid and perhaps people. And they are especially not happy about the possibility of direct a war between these respective countries and the rush. So that is why the politicians are jumping on on this hot rocks and trying to somehow navigate between between the agenda that they all have and, and their own population. So that is why we hear shots say one thing or on the other as well. Look around, this name is been mentioned already and say let me go to the only thing, but chrome and, and napoleon have in common is they were both small man, other than that, there is no similarity here. Why is the chrome mousing off the way he does . Remember at the beginning of all this, he was the dog now hes turning around and calling anyone that disagrees with them, a coward. Whats the evolution of a crowd near as well hes, hes bullied back to the topics on multi site because hes about signing up for some of the see key piece. This is the role with a piece yet. Encouraging. Uh, the escalation is somehow encouraging piece, which is absolutely ridiculous. Right . So, and thats right, but not for themselves. Shouldnt be job in the past and sorry to publish. Not super clear. Um, i will try to do the 5 but the male thats a um are you got people like nights i saturday general site and what youd probably needs is munition. Im not swear the quotes of dates, hunter, i should because they the reality is throughout europe. Theres actually no unification. Thats all that was speaking with different voices. You called the president trying to sign the United States when theyre actually not. And weve got a situation here where theyre going to have to face the fact that the client is actually been losing this conflict for some considerable time and how, how they actually going to deal with that. But the added problem is theres a loss of elections in the countries to see it. Yeah. And the key points about all of this is not one of the trunk trait pop. Ive been all sy, opinion, so i dont know if these policies are gates, russia. Im supporting the current governments in the price of any minds i will set that up and thats very key. Im going to talk about democracy. Theres no democracy, theres always more money. Oh, this huge expenditure public money without any overall fee for this is elizabeth vice. Its done so hes and thats right in good shape to the bar in the United Kingdom is spent 12000000000, sorry, fall, cho 1000000000, which is solely need to develop. I is, im at the same time. The assumptions are getting frustrated, rebounded, and the cases are the so type, huge rises and the cost of energy and the costs of living. And its a disaster situation. I bought the pump, they can also allow me to have an opinion on this is a big uh, guys, a lot said about the fact that people in russia doesnt have an opinion which are allowed to go forward. And then youd pay the, the medias some controlled, but your costs have another well, you could have an opinion, itll just be censored. Okay. Thats, thats, thats a better method that alexandra, you know, we had the lot being president in the i refer to the bolts of republics as the baltic chihuahuas on this program. He said he was quartered in saying, russia must be destroyed. Well, isnt that nice coming from a Little Country like lafayette and also we have other baltic republic saying that the u. K. Should return conscription. So how do you react to that . Its nice that another country banks, another country, should have conscription. What is a lot, be a good to throw into the, into the mix here. I mean, how many you halls, full of weapons do they have alexander . Its easier for them to say this. Yeah, i kind of catching the wave and the reminded me that plastic case of the younger brother who trusted deezen bully everyone because he knows that he has an older brother that can go to his rescue in case of trouble. So he seems to me that the 3 residents from the Baltic States are on the heads of the argument. They behaving this way because they know that they have someone on their back that will try and please not only to follow what they are saying, but at the same time to protect them and to, to confirm these words. However, lot not only has nothing but we have only a also see weeks ago that for example, denmark promised to send all the material artillery they had at least 40 grand and then you realize its only 14 how beach this so its not much, but the police to the finally called us when theyre trying to say that we are giving whatever we have a speaking of prescription, for example, i speak for them knowing the situation and menu opinion and countries easier to say for the great news to keep fighting. Until the last 2 brain, but when it comes up to the, to the situation where our own citizens should be deployed to the battle route to the battlefield, then thats a whole different story. Thats kind of solution. Usually most the majority of the people do not support weve unplugged to send our signs our grandchildren to the war, but we want the others to fight for us. Because if you see, even from frances, press the press for the french president s words, what he says usually is we are going to be blowing as some of the lead gary, in some way. Are you great . And she wasnt, she wants to be. But at the same time, shes not saying that shes going to confront the russian because she knows how unpopular such words would be understood by the french. So from what i understand alexanders a, its 6768 percent of french people. Paul, do not want french soldiers going to ukraine. Again, this is an elite agenda, you know, stephen, one of the things, you know, when i look at these european leaders, and i dont know me, i guess im a chrome this as an inferior already complex or hes competing with Sergeant Schultz or Something Like that. Anyway, we dont need political science, we need psychologists, i suppose to understand these people, but you know, the moral ization rusher must not be allowed to win. What does that mean stephen . That means that they have a problem with the numbers and uh, and with reading what is going on on the ground. But it is also a very dangerous spot because these words can eventually turn it into uh into moves uh, which will cause escalation. The scenario, the possible scenario that i see is that uh, the beginning. You would have nato forces over to enter west lake and practically police a occupied to be quite blunt. Uh, they would practically be Occupation Forces in ukraine. Uh, in central advice and you freight perhaps you have to, but there the point of them being there a would be to release all the police man. All the National Guard and honor security forces, all of ukraine, to go to the meat grinder in the east. And that is how i call a slow escalation and slow. And i think involvement that can actually become a lot of i was even steve. And these are you bring up an interesting point here. So if you are ukranian, cells are being sent to the meat grinder and theres some french guy sitting in a cafe in care. But what do you think hes gonna think my life is worth less than the french guys. Steven . Exactly. I think they are they, i mean this was done from the beginning, but i think now theyre starting to realize that on the front you see that the people are doing everything to try to not end up in the mead. Ryans or people are driving the local uh, maybe 3 authorities. Theyre trying to rescue themselves by running away on the border and theyre being cost and then sense to meet the driver. I mean, this is the, the dire situation of man in ukraine is really something that should be uh, called a humanitarian catastrophe. But it is not. I mean, this is against, uh, uh, the, the, the war. Well, this is against uh, any kind of up now, lets say ethics of, of war, but that is exactly what were seeing. Well, im glad im glad you brought up the word ethics here. Let me go to anthony. Now, i mean Lindsey Graham o pines again. You know, hes complaining of the conscripting age is too high. They need to lower, we need to get these younger guys here. I mean, its just amazing to see how western politicians are willing to do using ukrainians as cannon fodder. And they always say it and know american troops. I mean, what a ghoulish way to approach things, anthony. Yeah, yes, its terrible. The loss of the psycho breast and lead is not, are actually has the military experience themselves. Site are quite happy for other people to type type the races, but not them are not very uh, sons endorsers and the acreage, as i said to try to find the situation because of the printing casualties. So call a 1400000 loops guide, wait and did michigan not shit and watch it on the on to suddenly the washington casualties about 288000 equivalent. So the situation is understandable from the crime point of view, and its probably much like the guitar and grace of not. So you drove the right people to stop taking to surrender. So the old mass, but there were a few die off people around. But its concerning that, that some people, particularly in the United States and indeed in the country who will be happy for the ukrainian bio population. But states are be wipes out just to satisfy that, right . So the, its a blood glass. Last is what it is here, gentlemen. Right here, were approaching a hard break and after that hard break, well continue our discussion on you can stay with our team, the take a fresh look around his life. Kaleidoscopic. Isnt just a shifted reality distortion by tell us to do vision with no real opinions. Fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen for you, fractured images, present it is, but can you see through their illusion going underground can the eclipse without even a cpu. The story. Ok. School level, the use of solutions, stuff thats due to shes gonna need to. She couldnt. Miller collected exp, it to photocopy slip on. Thats a to describe the, the dizzy on this, these are they have to do is make sure that you create, excuse that our name is miss historical stories with disposable cleaning. Some the doors not say that the bunch of stuff. Conflicting the thoughts about bushing and goes to school centuries ago. Your forebears name this country ukraine or frontier because youre steps blank, europe and asia, the ukrainians, that become frontiersman of another. So you can use people who dont will be able to sing the songs which i like most of them, theres always, you know, going to jump to the most goals. They would have been that much. A lot of the heavily beverages coleman joe, probably 90 post bouquets gift to 2nd the well have to upgrade the stuff on the the welcome back. The cross talk, were all things are considered. Im peter roosevelt. Your mind you were discussing. You create the ok. Lets go to alexander in lizard. Lets keep with this, this theme of a true, a nato troops being sent to central ukraine, western ukraine as an exemplary force or Something Like that. Latrene. Well, i dont know um, but you know, is there, is there a built in assumption on the part of nato think or is if thats not a contradiction in terms of that the russians wouldnt dare to touch those troops. Thats a pretty big assumption to have. Alexander, yes, do you think the next step, of course, the russians, i can see the russians having to wait and logging dashing through, hits naples troops wherever they are, regardless if they are in a so terry 3 story they are in your brain in west or east or west and central, whatever. But at the same time, we have just before present to the to see whats, what will be the mission of these nathan troops are, where are they going to be deployed as are only the french spots are obese, posted by the french for are they going to do you, brad saucers, by nature of this, will be decided to see a factor in order to decide and when the stand talk and the russians dealing with these forces at the same time. Because we have seen so far that there are a lot of military stocks from the 2 countries. A great, not totally gatherings for meetings, not only for the technical purposes, but they have been there and many of them have been dying in the battlefield. The problem is to see if they are going to at tech, do bring it troops in certain areas or if they are going to start any kind of look at the action in order to force restaurants with that and then use rest yet all objections for in for sports, but i dont see any kind of thing fashion from nato countries or even by france alone to start any kind of conflict, ultimately thought contact our course cameras. But i would render if theyre in the battle field during the battle space, what differences of make, i dont think, you know, if these forces, whatever theyre doing with their aiding and abetting a military to kill russian soldiers. So they are, the enemy is how could it be different . Yes, the problem is if they publicly it means that they are on the ground wireless police through the present time to have never admitted. But they werent the battle wrong. They werent the battlefield. They were not the only friends, theyre not only german of police, but also from the United States they have be do. During the confrontations, the problem is that people look, well, we know that they are assuming youd be bodily, then they want to start to use it as being some kind of rigor in order to go to create any kind of facing the possibility of russia. Okay, talking about triggers. Well then stephen, lets, lets think about it. Logically, i know western leaders, theyll do this. Okay. But, you know, then, you know, we have the article 5 come into into play here. Okay. I mean, if, if theyre going to go into the battle space, okay, and there is a exchange, there are casualties, then theyre in a stage of war. But then nato cannot invoke the article 5 because theyve already violated article one, that they would not go into a military conflict here. So i mean theyre, theyre shredding their own logic and their own last go ahead stephen. Were going into a philosophical discussion now because what nato has been doing for the last 2 years, if not much longer, is to get involved as much as possible into the war. But for the rest of the world, the thing that nato is not into work so phrase us treasury policy has made its coalition for and munitions. And so theyre gathering together them, deployed 800155. 00 millimeters south from they, they claim they bought it in, in the south korea and other countries and other Major Companies are involved in this kind of wherever they are pretending that this is nothing to eat the, this is a, some kind of coalition of the willing, remember the phrase from 2003 when bush a back to iraq. So it wasnt made to, it was called ition of the willing. So what theyre doing now is it, jackie that needs was all right, well lets see what i can up. The anti here. Emily and a better bach. Uh. One uh, 180 degrees. Better boxy wants to have somehow german missiles, a sold to the british. So the british can send them to ukraine. I dont know what kind of food was the bathroom. Yeah, yeah. But it would see for some reason not the defense minister would be able to control coordinates. Id be, id, this is getting insane. Anthony react to that. Well, it is in the site and weve cross, im pretty of the same there on the defense. I to try ground start sues lightly say to get along with that. But there are consequences for the Congress Rate which shut off. Ill get started, hopefully involved in helping by should be killed the russian soldiers and in the u. K. Do you guys just lots of major fishing agreement with brochure um, which is today were the, its the staple dogs and many people in the United Kingdom official projects. And we are going to see a scar or do increase in the price of fish in the United Kingdom because thats the thing were talking about. I think ross is actually being flight moderates and its a reaction to various european country. So the anthony, let me do this on this fisher issue here, so the British Public will be denied fish, but the russian public will be able to eat fish yet. How is that a sanction as well . All the good. Im sorry, go ahead. Well, well they go rebounded again. See if i can get them like the looks of it comes to green. So having such a policy because the, the due date. So i can sure exactly work. But if we guys thought, so the subject said People Killed is only the b, 5900, the 62 on soldiers killed in, in the ukraine, a good proportion advisor in the United Kingdom. And uh, its been a bit of a tougher off how much longer of the bushes. Public goods be denied the information because theyre supposed to be you guys have delta dental of intelligence to help with the training to make sure the fire of homes is all i retired. But in reality, that helping direct offensive operations again, instruction forces. Im not so now im not as a rule on this thing, not empowerment show a pharmacy in the United Kingdom. And she can talk to more like actions against russia. And already the United Kingdom and government. So maybe ill take out the lens, all trucking a very fine line with volt battery. Well, i suppose i says one of the applications of the rules based order that we keep hearing about, okay, you break all the rules because we want to control it, determine what is order. This is ridiculous here, alexander, you, we have. Speaker johnson in the United States is talking about a stand alone bill for more a ukraine. I thought hed come to his senses, but he hasnt, of course. And interestingly enough, for Republican House control, this going to give bite in the political when and election years, explain that to me here, but its not going to make any difference. Anyone that knows. Ive listened to a lot of military experts, and this is just the way, okay, of course companies in the United States, they will of a benefit, but this is not going to benefit ukraine. To be honest, i think that even speaker jonathan doesnt know what kind of a stand alone they take is. Will this be because hes proposal still presents very vague tires . We both know yet how is it even going to be submitted on the formal way, but at least appears that she will try to boost for some kind of single and autonomous proposal disconnected from any federal concessions that have 2 other political measures sought by democrats and republicans, alexander, its been mentioned here, um, a new land lease. I dont even think the majority of congressmen even know with that term historical term is how is that work . I mean, ukraine is, could it paid United States back after all of this . I mean that either they, they dont know anything about history or theyre just finding a new way to live the people. Alexander, it was kind of that, that for example, president former President Trump this weekend and just call or that kind of alone, lowering least that this is simply just does not exist in practice, for example, even in the union, we have exactly the same aspect. We keep funding, we are going to fund your brain and you granary, lowly start to pay back up to 10 years within 10 years. So i did, but no one knows. And everyone at the same time knows how will you brain going is going to pay for . Well, i think theres, theres a, theres a way that no ones thought about as they should tax ukraines oligarchy. Because they are the ones that are making so much money off of this work. I mean, the, they should sign a personal, you know, loan, you know, they go, theyre going to pay it back. Of course, its nonsense, thats not going to happen here. Were rapidly running out of time, steven. I think this is a, were the kind of a turning point here. I think theres so much panic and desperation in the air that we have discussed on this program. Um, wheres that, whats the next step . Where are we going . The one thing that the west is the only vanishing in being the desperate because of both, instead of just to drink his victory speech that russia does, it does not want a fake piece which will last for a year and a half or 2 years. So that the, uh, you know, uh, military Industrial Complex uh, in the western countries uh, gets uh ahead of the game so that they can send enough weapons to the front line. So russia was a political solution, and i think the political solution with the current leads in the west and with the current a government in ukraine or even ukraine as such, is possible. That is why i expect, uh, russia to secure its borders. Im putting, again said that there should be a buffered so that the cities in, in russia are safe and secure. Yeah. And theres, you know, do we have on this program . We have talked about this quite a bit. And my only concern is, is that i want an end to this conflict immediately. Ok. However, of russia does not want to be put into a position where you crane we arms for 5 years and they start all over again. That is the problem. Thats the problem. Keep go, go ahead. That is why west wanted the career scenario, the more rides. Yates, north korea, north south korea situation in the middle of europe. And russia doesnt want that. It doesnt want to have a constant threat on its borders, but it wants to have a, a sustainable Security Architecture in european continent. And it is, this is exactly what it was proposing some 1015 years ago, and what it was continuously proposing during the main main sc agreements and even until today. But they are not going to be willing to go for another fake agreement, which will only buy time for a, for a 2nd. Lets say punch that the russia i should uh, should guess from the west. Uh so that is why i think it will inflict as much damage as it can and it will probably uh solve this uh in military. Yeah. So when it must in worth the security is guaranteed for all, i dont know how we do that, but thats how it must and or, oh this will happen again gentlemen. Thats all the time we have a one, a think, my guessing weird thing. Bell. Great. And in lisbon, and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. And next time, remember across the rules, the a when i went to the wrong just dont just to save house to come and engagement it close the trail. When so many find themselves will support, we choose to look for Common Ground the. The position intelligence reveals defrances preparing to send 2000 capes to ukraine. Also says the french contingency would be considered a legitimate target. The bmw of the senior since late, so submitted to intervention as close as one of the most prosperous african countries of the times. Its a decade of 10 world. We discussed the west and let incursions legacy for the form of conducting governments, folks. Libby, i became