Hello and welcome to prospect bullhorn design. Peter lavelle here we discussed some real news, mcfarland and others in europe double down on sending forces to ukraine. Meanwhile, speaker johnson will introduce that ukraine. A bill. Whats the end game defacto partition of ukraine . To discuss these issues and more, im joined by George Samuel in budapest. Hes a pod cast or at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals and america. We cross the martin chest a. He is an Award Winning journalist and commentator. Right gentlemen, prospect rolls in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. And i always appreciate it. All right, lets kick it off with george in budapest, the george things are happening so fast. So many statements are being made now, many of them contradictory, but unity is always the most important thing here. We have in the crone saying a pressure wins, then trust in europe will be reduced to 0. Then we have a Sergeant Schultz in germany reminding the french president , were not at war with russia. So can you somehow navigate between these um, proclamations from the european leaders. And its not easy to do. Um, what, what it seems like when, when were heading is the, the europeans, which would be my crown, probably the british, the polls bolting 2 hours as we like to refer to them. I think theyre going to move some forces into um, ukraine not with a view to combat. I dont think that theyre not planning on any kind of home but, but i think that they want to somehow stabilize the ukrainian crumbs and make clear to russia that thus far and no further. As long as i get, i think they go to accept the loss as they see the loss of the east and south eastern provinces of ukraine. They gone, but they, theyre making clear the rest of that. You cannot go any further. And that seems to be where they kind of heading the best so good to make the going to accept a de facto partition of the ukraine. And then the rest of the page, the father of your brain, that is with this sort of lee. They live the west, those fear that they go to retreat as if they were the west germany, that a much of the world will to, i mean, thats something way this is a or do you think its a foolish plan . George the police side. But as a business business where, where, where are they thinking . Um, i, you know, its not doable unless, yeah, i mean the, at least its a way that temporarily they can bring it. Theres not going to be a peace agreement. Theres not going to be a negotiation is not going to be any talks, but they, thats where they may have to think about where at least you can draw a line and say again, this is what we say. This is what you take and, and then you know, we dont actually have to get into a um, a full loud and blow. Well you said thats their thinking. Um, i would say theyre not thinking i before i try man again, martin hood of your little to reaction to all of this and more disagree with what george says. But i think what were looking at now is the, the 11th, a 100 and 1st, last level bluffs. Yeah. And also the 1st miscalculation, this is really the end getting now, when you, you know, all my career, i have to listen to western media. And most of these hop on adults, various middle east and factions using people as human shields. But actually, this is what were talking about, and were talking about actually sending around a soldiers that as human shields based on the massive miscalculation these 3, whether its less, remember the street was put in, wouldnt that he will get up and he will do it with the 2nd scenario to this, if it ever goes ahead, is a number of french or troops or both on its way and troops will be killed if the french troops, if you have Something Like a u. S. O unit, have a dozen man who are killed. Thats an game that school over from that point as well as the martin, particularly particularly sense of the recent call, a lot of friends that 68 percent of the, the people polled or again, sending any kind of troops into, into ukraine. Let me go back to go ahead and finish up it, give up maxims the thinks that he can get around that by, you know, by saying, well, these trips wouldnt be infantry. Any way you know, thatd be train is theyll be some sort of them. Consultants, you know, but the 2nd point i want to make is that perhaps even worse doesnt french truths being killed is what is it doesnt bunch of troops being captured and we saw are in syria and french, italian, a Spanish Government as easily giving into terrorist groups who demoted roughly 8000000. 00 per headed, and hostages that are going to wash with these cars. Put is not mentioned. They many, deltas, you know, so the nightmare scenarios are just multiple and i, i, this is moving the food is, its basically a suicide move. Hold your to, is it a bluff . I mean, because i mean, emma crowns and you know, he seems to be really hyper interested in be in Media Exposure right now. Even said, you know, event the eventual return of crimea. I mean, this is max melissa. I mean, thats an understatement. I mean, is it a bluff . You mean that the russians wouldnt dare touch the hair of a frenchman . I hope thats not what theyre thinking. Go ahead. George. What is, how do you know . I mean, there is the model of syria to consider, which is we now have had for years and years. Russian forces in syria. Weve had American Forces in syria. Weve had talk is forces this area. I mean, all 3, very different agendas in syria, all 3 of essentially, antagonistic, as far as the serious concern. Yep. I do go out of my way, not to shoot at each other. Im in the middle of the, the americans on the trunk. Did kilos most, and there is the russian boss and arisen, russia didnt do anything about that. Um, so that could be this thinking that, you know, we can do Something Like syria and, you know, that was in the, in ukraine. The basically were not going to target each other and us avoid a was i thought it was interesting. The booting is interview last week with this, dimitri disabled of this issue was raised to him. Well, what do you think about the french moving that forces into ukraine . Waiting was quite noncommittal. He said that, you know, he didnt say, well, this is a red line for us. You know, that, that means this means, well, he said, well, you know, theyve already been French Forces in ukraine. Theres nothing new about that. And, and in any case is not going to change the outcome of the war. So it was a kind of ambiguous, but it did suggest that he didnt necessarily think that this is a of a game changer. And this, this means war and were going to target French Forces. So i dont know, but at the same time, if you, even if you do targeted, these forces, its hard to invoke optical 5. I mean, you brought your forces into your drive. You violated obviously article one, i mean, theres no wall that go 5 involves everything with that, thats a, thats a whos there and, you know, for micro, on the, to the polls of the voltage, you always does a all the going fiber optic of but wed be shot at, i mean that thats not going to wash. Well, i mean, you know what the both of you know what mccall and, and his heart of hearts wants. He wants the americans to go in. Okay. Under the flag of nato, thats what they all want. Okay. I mean, you know, how many you halls that does lithuanian need to transport . Its tit okay. I mean, yeah, you know, im so im sorry, some medium size u hauls u haul as well. Oh even need more in the wood. Theres an interesting missing piece of the puzzle here. What are the ukranian supposed to go along with this . Is that fair . I havent heard anything from zelinski. I mean, were just gonna cut up your country. Okay. I mean, yeah, i mean theyve been volunteers and this disastrous project from the beginning. I guess he wont have much choice, but i think that the, the, the radicals around him will not be satisfied with that. Id be worried if i was mr. Zelinski with all of my crowns talk you, but were reaching real desperation levels now. I mean, really, really scraping up arrow on those measurements the sides on west of least and what is left to do is, uh, you know, uh, zalinski me, are we thinking, you know, if they sent some small numbers of troops to ukraine, perhaps i could then force more of my troops working in the kitchens and in the Admin Department to put on uniforms and grab gums and go to the front line pups. You know, its difficult to know, but i didnt. I mean, i would, i would imagine martin, you would need to have band thats behind those people to do that. Okay. It was a to get, i mean, if youre, if youre calling the cooks and the clerks, that means youre losing really, really badly. I mean, why would they want to you wouldnt want to be put into that situation. Will ask is already cooling and pregnant women, for gods sakes, i mean, either way or what do you have . I know, but i think theres another side to this and i think you touched on it earlier. Personally, if i had to really stick my neck i was, i do think its a bluff. I really do. I dont think this is serious. And the only way that i can imagine the macro and could be faintly serious about this notion, is hes thinking like been like by doing his thinking in the past of what france was 3040 years ago. And hes possibly thinking of african troops possibly. Now that could be a way around this, you know, the article side. Let me, let me get clarify. There african troops fighting on the back of the headset, the french in ukraine. Yeah, i mean, they did it before. And the 2nd one will, you know, where i am now, im look of opinion will contribute to for the 2nd level, id like to say alongside the french, but they would treat to so badly. They were given outdated dysfunctional equipment, you know, barely the correct russians. And not even the proper uniforms, but you know, history could repeat itself. He may be thinking that way, you may be thinking that way, or maybe thinking musson raise or, or not. So, you know, its quite a neo colonial. And in the, in the appearances there, george, i will, um, speaker johnson is uh, thinking uh, stand alone unpaid bill for ukraine. My. You and i talked about this before, but i think thats going to happen. Um, which is going to be the amount that will be interesting. George. No, i didnt get it read it is going to happen. It was always on the likely that hes going to be able to hold the line against a tree brain because theres such an overwhelming majority in both houses for sending money to ukraine, that he was always going to cave. I mean, the, you know, you have on the one hand, pretty much everybody wants to give money to ukraine and on the other end you have these few mag o republicans of the moderate de la greens and my gauges, but just arent enough of them. And its really a freebie for the americans. I mean, they have the money the, you know, they have money to burn. Yeah. Show us that. Send it along. Um. Yeah. And by the way, lets confiscate 300000000000. 00 of assets from the russians send that along. As well, so its, its nothing to them. I mean the, you know, the, the low paying that i dont know whether they do need, it might end up with the johnson losing his job and the bikes, they gately chess, but he may want that. I mean its, its a thankless job. I mean, its not, its not that painful to be kicked up from the speakership. Well, what are your thoughts there . What im because, i mean, this is all electioneering as well. Okay. Um uh you know, the, the, the johnston has to be careful with the American People feel it, but they, he doesnt want to give a victory to buy it. And so he has, its a pretty, pretty thin line for him. Yeah, im not too sure about us going to im, i was thinking more of european politics and, you know, micro on is thinking about his future. No question. Hes going to be out of office. You know, the 3 years time, which is not a long time the tool is for the positioning himself for top job in brussels. Either Everything Commission president or your pin council president. So i think there is politics in the is hes also with these kind of statements. Hes also bashing the far right groups and from so this is political agenda the, you know, because i, well, you know, as we have, as we approach the bright a, i have a strong sense of the People Associated with this ukraine project will end up being dismissed from polite society, well say quite gentlemen, were going to go to a short break. And after that short break, well continue our discussion on somebody on the stay with our to the office on the trip. Nick place to do that, even if cpd. Whats the story page go level the use of solutions stuff which i see to shifted in each look forward to each time who should google . Miller will collected ftp 2 for could be susceptible to discuss the dc on this before they have to do is to make sure that even you create, excuse start arguing as historical stories of disposable green. Some doors not 2nd thought im going to the dots. Conflicting the website bypassing of centuries ago. Your forebears name this country ukraine are frontier because youre steps blank, europe and asia, the ukrainians that become frontiersman of another. So these people will be able to send these will be some of those which i like most of them, theres always, you know, going to try to jump to the most goals and would have been data that some of the heavily negligence coleman 0 point on your post co pays give to 2nd the will have to okay. And the stuff on the the welcome back to cross the bull horns and peter level here we are discussing some real news. Okay, lets go back to george, george a another ankle to all of this here. You know, we, we look at the european leadership and we have elections coming up across the continent here. The powers that be, well those, the, the, the incumbents are not sitting pretty to say the very least here. But if you look at, you know, many of the things that schultz and to ask and im a chrome is said. And what weve heard over the last, i think by 3 or 4 months now, the war economy, i mean, this is something that seems to be being pushed further in further and further. We have to mobilize which of course, that means routing around the flag to some extent here its national security. You cant questionnaire and its excess dental. The chrome use that word many times over the last be the x this dental. This is very convenient. Oh. And by the way, get rid of freedom of speech towards the question. It is the most extraordinary escalation um within europe and is on the above of max wrote you have the same sort of talk from the bad above the gentlemans borrow minutes. The uh shoals is kind of, um, uh the saying that, well, uh im trying to keep up pieces privacy by. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I agree with all of that, but i, i dont wanna, you know, send the tourist miss uh them. And then of course my chrome and David Cameron smearing this at them. Yeah, but thats what you said about the time, cuz thats what you said about the, the ms sile so you know what, were, what are you making a fuss about this . And theres a couple of things that, you know, eventually is going to case. I mean, he lives, there isnt really any, any real basis. Um, but it is it sort of the way that it was all of the coverage you were being the lead on mobilizing people, that war economy. And um, and then you know, now you know, my problem is, is that okay, well were going to devote all these resources to get buying more amunition from all over the world. So bad again. So my goal is going back on the analyzing, but we go to, you know, everything has to be in terms of the European Defense in this fixed now, so far. But however, the European Defense industry, were just going to buy it where it, wherever this ammunition, so we have, and then ill talking about, you know, giving this money. This, at least as far as the or bins goes, is this them the windfall profits from this unfrozen russian assets are going to hand that over to your brain and they can buy whatever ammunition they want with that money. Now the americans say we should take the whole law and give it a little too crazy. Okay . All because most of its in europe, executive earbuds, of the moment. The thing though to that, but we know that eventually the americans always get by way that, you know, and this, this kind of, this is like, uh, the European Union is struggling to say the very least, this legitimacy, the promise of, of the security and prosperity that thats coming up short here. So the European Union to take the next step always needs a crisis list is a very convenient crisis. Okay. I dont think any of these people give a hoot about ukraine one way or another. Okay . This is a political gambit tier. And, and also its from a chrome, you know, i, uh, i think hes probably a very insecure guy. I dont know. I mean, but you know, hes electronic, you know, show his inner bonaparte or Something Like that. Do you know, hes trying to leave a mark. He wants to take the mantle of leadership. You know, this is something we see how we know when things are going well at home. You know, a focus on your opponent part. Okay. But i think this is what is a part of this is about, and its also a challenge to the rising influence of the members in the you and of nato in the east. Martin. It is, and i think youre right, i think theres this political gesture and he is, but the bang on his are just here trying to show the americans that he is dynamic. He can do things, he can arrange things, you know, he is a contender. But hes not convincing. Really anybody . Because the french people arent convinced of this, this, this latest ruse. Youd have to send troops to the, to your credit. And if you look at the statement, you know, the french journalist, i mean, as an engineer with the prize. Yeah. And if you look at the translation, i actually speak french and like i was when i read it, i saw a cult. Thats pretty lame. Do you know the actual state, the somebody else you said was perhaps at some point we may have to send troops into ukraine, you know, but i dont want to, its, and i dont really, you know, support it. I mean, it was very, very lame, but its in below not in a, by the press but international press. Dont know how long that can continue. You know, there are already so many times you can play that bluff with media. You know, before people wake up, i realize, you know, i, im a skeptical generalist. Well, i smell here is massive, unprecedented levels of corruption, which only leaves a little west nowadays. Basically want to avoid coming out. And if we can keep lizette cholenski and power, we can keep the war machine going for another 2 or 3 years. Would basically be in the clear. Thats really what the agenda was here. Its incredible how it keeps sending money. Is this guy, you know, keeps sending billions to this guy. And, you know, it was just pointed out by somebody else, the other day, probably smelling some more informed than i am. But this defense line that the americans gave to you, trained to build in a, involving hundreds of millions of dollars, similar to the motion online that the russians have created doesnt, doesnt exist. So a lot of money go, you know, how many, and you look at such things as the deficit of missiles on towed in when, when things were really hot, when the war was in full swing a few months ago in terms of exchange of, of hardware, military hardware the, the credit is regarding so somebody like 6155 millimeter rockets a day which is supplied by america. Now, i, you know, do the much 100000000. 00 a month. Im told that the americans actually only produce 30000. So theres a huge, huge deficit to but you know, probably houses that is being sent to, to these res now. So what do you think of google some real problems ahead and i think all of this is really not so much framing how we accept defeat in ukraine and present it to our electricity is more how we keep this thing going at all costs. Well, thats exactly it, george. I mean if, if youre sitting in the kremlin right now, and youre watching all of these, um, you know, or sub standard western politicians. I mean, how would you assess that . I mean, would you say, well, we need to recalibrate or discontinue . I mean, because because i think that its under not, i think most people have come to the conclusion now that you know, ukraine is, is losing if not last year. And so if youre sitting in the kremlin, youre saying, well, why dont we just keep on doing what were doing, george . Well, except thats the, the line that has come from bruton. And this was something that was talk a call some emphasize us to the interview, which is really once a, a supplement. He really wants to bring this wall to an end. And i think its clear from, well, i mean, it was clear again, from his interview with his interview with casela of the russian really wants this war to come to an end. And thats why im just thinking with your opinions on the americans, obviously a ready to accept some sort of a defect, politician of ukraine. Im not sure the russian would say no to that. Um, but uh, what about the energy . What the, what the goals, where the stock of the special montreal operation on the other hand, is it worth continuing the war. I mean that, that, and i think thats the question they would have to the us. I would, i would be more nuanced, but i, i know where youre going charge. So a partition. The rump state must be neutral, and there must be regime change in care of. Do you think the russians would by the i think they probably would buy that down. Yeah, i think they would say, but let you know, we havent achieved everything that we wanted to achieve. But whats the alternative, the alternative . Well, i mean, gerardo, email it to is ation d notification that they were thats those are both pretty big and away. So you could say both were a cheat martin jump in. Yeah, but um, are we ever gonna, do you, do you do . Do you know sci fi, your crime . You know, i cant see that happening. I think the key to this what youre just to lou to is regime change. So, you know, again im, i know im buying all my written so many articles about this, but i think it does come down to the landscape moving on to whos very nice villa in florida and accepting american possible and letting everyone that the grownups come in. You know, accept the fact that the teenagers may so you know, um, over the weekend when there was the case in the house, thats not gonna happen. No, theyre not going to have had dogs go ahead go. The landscape is much too useful to the, to the americans and to the europeans, easily ideal leader for them. I mean, hes been essentially presided over the devastation who is the country and what was know of a ukrainian lee. They would have been happy to do that. Hes not, hes not an independent actually. Hes never has been in the defense. The fact that he has done what was really quiet of him. So theres no reason for the loop of the west to get rid of him, particularly it is when i said that is they thinking in terms of the fact of audition, they dont to keep the will going. I mean, that was, it is going to be a matter of, uh, going back to the missing something. Youre missing a focus on to the point of giving you a situation which is basically just going to keep it going, you know, like they were shooting at the dumbass for one example to and thats when he 22. And thats what, how they get like the continued going. Youre right, but the caviar to all that is, do you sticks to your point when Russian Troops are 20 kilometers outside of kiff . You know, this is what the night thats how many kilometers asked. I k, i dont know what they might be, but the people that know me that the calculate what, what happens when its when he kilometers are not at the moment. Which the reason why is because thats the worry for people like macro and bind them is the if, and thats why they say theyre going to move out forces in and say that, you know, thats florida. No further, youre not coming any when they, its near to you. Thats what its all about and why they want to move their forces in. You dont coming in now, doesnt rush or maybe one to take that risk all a chance essentially, you know, possibly getting into a hole in the shooting. Well, with the, with the westland post. I dont think so. And thats why when i brought up early in the example of syria, because lift kept the distance is you know, make sure we dont get into a situation where we have, but my experience is, oh my did, theres one problem, one major period. Sorry, hang on, hang on. One major problem with that. And george, you know, you and ive been over this territory. Many times, is that russia will not accept a situation where nato will just re tool the cab regime and they start all over again in 5 years. That will be something that they will be intolerable. Martin. Yeah, its a cit, the serial example isnt a very good one. And ive worked in sarah, and i can tell you is up a couple 1000 us troops in the last country, the vast desert of syria and little, tiny, strategic coolness, training local. I can okay to groups which are happy to take the money and find a sunroof regime for every now and again is already pull power though. Really, for example, to really because in the americans arent going to have a huge forces it when, when i dont know, and thats what my problem is that i know. But the quotes in pollutant is not a side. You know, isnt, this allows the example. Its allows you to make a move by the Still Limited number of forces, and theres no indication that the russians are willing to shoot fab until nato forces. But theres no indication, i mean, the rush has been very meticulous about not getting into any situation where theyre shooting at and they do a full. So thats why the camp, but they have killed nato troops. Most center is or the yeah, we are in the contractors. Okay. And whatever status, there was a gentleman, it just started getting heated up, but weve run out of time. I want to thank my g as in mary cash and in budapest and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time. Remember, across the rules, the, [000 00 00;00] the crime a, for almost 3 centuries, its been a strong code of russian culture. 10 years ago of the events, the divided dependence was history and to before and after. It became part of russia for good. The progress of divorce is due to the so we took to me was to see the fitness, the supernatural. If the board the different just here, it was more or less 2 of them that will just listed you. As im with you, the, with the Station Committee trista can look that order still pretty good in the midst of which is the listing of what the quote was pretty crossed and the good person it says good says was age and disagreement, but it is a floor that as daniel, only just the internet to the what the spit i didnt, i suppose by us then probably the coolest little thing and just put a little simple story to chipped vehicles because dania couldnt move when you receive the, the, the just behind me is the very heart of the spots country. It hurts music festivals, christmas mom kids a big 3 day parades, and today it was hosting a concept to celebrate the 10th of last 3 of crime is reunification with russia, with Vladimir Putin congratulating the nation on this historic date. Crimea is 1st and foremost, the people. They carried faith in the fatherland through the decades. They have never separated themselves from russia, and this is what allowed crimea to return to our common families. Meanwhile, the returning head of the state health, special praise for those who costs their president ial pilots in regions coming