They have supports person basically says that how much wages war prom hospitals using civilians as human shields and using civilian infrastructure as a shield. Also he also added and one of the things that the fuel, thats the u. N. A agency for Palestinian Refugees providing for hospitals end up in the hands of him us and all that makes it legitimate for these really air forces to target these locations. The journalist also asked the idea of spokesperson whether the army has any information about the hostages. Wherever a bows and if they also could be held inside these hospital that the idea of Spokes Person was talking about. But mr. How good he gave a very vague answer. Saying that all the goals of these really military operations in the guys trip, including the end of her mouth and the release of the hostages will be achieved. But i have to tell you that not every budget in these rarely society is convinced. Heres my report from yet another demonstration of the families of those who are still held in captivity inside the gas a street. The protests of the families of those have Health Engine guys do not stop. This courtyard in front of the art museum is now called the kidnapped and missing square in the middle of the square in downtown to leave the organizers of the Massive Campaign to put pressure on these really governments to secure a release of those still held in hand masses could save it to inside the gases trip, such as symbolic table, with more than 200. 00 empty seats. Families of those kidnapped say they cannot wait any longer. They want radical mattress from the authorities. They want to see the loved ones back home, safe and sound as soon as possible, no matter what people gather here every day. Angry, frustrated, disappointed, helpless. The relative share their stories and their feelings. My mother, ive been on with say, shes 72 years old. She was kidnapped from keep boats meal or my father. It was murdered there in the safe room in the keyboard. And i saw that the terrorist took her to gather. My name is the the so im the mother of in the tunnel is 30 years old and he was kidnapped from the 5 to him with his girlfriend. She was on the motorcycle taken by the terrorist and he was a much off to her. They want to shut all the was to all the world as us. I can only feel i really strong feeling and innovation, but shes alive. But i dont know that for sure. While politicians and the army vowed to do everything they can to bring hostages back home. People here did not believe it is the governments number one priority. If that was the 1st priority of the government, they would be by now the super testers finish the gathering by singing israels national anthem. They will go home now, but tomorrow theyll gather here again. Im ready for the auction, our team from television 5, thats all for this is out when we back of the top with more than the the hello and welcome to cross stuff. Were all things are considered. Im peter without the western world is given is real. A green light to exact revenge in the wake of a mouse as attack on october 7th and doing so. The west is made it Clear International humanitarian law. And the rules of war are subjective and arbitrary. Some lives are more valuable than others. The cross talking palestine, im joined by my guest, Ryan Christian and franklin. He is found are an editor of the last American Vagabond and the host of the daily wrap up inside. And we cross the side. Yeah, so to raleigh, he is assistant professor of Political Science at the institute for humanities and cultural studies. And in budapest we cross the jordan, samuel, we, he is a pod cast or at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. Are gentlemen across our goals and the fact that means you can jump any time i want you want, and i always appreciate it. Lets go to the professor in into that and id like to read you a fragmented job. And it was stated by the secretary general of the United Nations. Apparently what im about to read is very, very controversial. I want your thoughts. It is also important to recognize the attacks by how miles did not happen in a vacuum. The Palestinian People had been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation. Is there any errors in that . Those 2 sentences there because ive read it about 50 times and i dont see whats wrong with it. But apparently the, the, the people, the powers that be in the west, i think this is an atrocity in itself. Go ahead and cut down the, i think what is going on and guess is spent is there and is preparing for a land invasion. And i want to ask them, especially the why is x prepaying for line vision . And by the degree, like you mentioned, is being given by the vista and leaders to a desire to engage guys a try something question. We should get the operation electronics from these by the point of view. First of all, you have experienced an unprecedented intent. Just failure, of seeing as could successfully hide all phases of this operation from the eyes of israels intelligence service. And its complicated to spine technologies. It means that this can happen, and again and again in the future. So the people who have promised, i mean is right, is the residence of the occupied territories. The people who were promised to leave it in normal life conducted by to if there is no chance of error, it is that its not a safe place to be there as migration has already started. Since ill leave you in test by and dismiss that, the end of is read is near no population, no country. It is such a situation. The only be left to compensate for this test will be failure. She occupied as a boy come us off from the ears and create this search empty for the residence of yet about 2 thirds that the source of the boss is completely eliminated. Israel, she well, my wonder if i get a interrupt here and go to franklin. I go to ryan him, franklin, i. I agree that that is the stated goal it but to get rid of hamas, youre going to have to get rid of the population at the same time. My point is and then my introduction i was suggesting is that the west is culpable, and in alignment with israel and competing with is nothing less than genocide. Go head, right . Yeah, yeah. It is an objective reality. What you just said, man, this is what so frustrating about this entire conversation. As you a so delicately put at the beginning. Its very clearly revealing that they do not care about all of the things that they, you know, the so called rules based international order. Clearly only applies when they want it to. Right. I mean, these are like the things i always maintain, that i want, i want my audience and everybody listening to understand and these are objective realities. The United Nations as always, maintains this isnt occupied territory. And because thats a reality, that means that under the geneva conventions any occupied territory has the legal right to arms struggle armed rebellion. That means that come off as actions as the resistance of one of the factions, of resistance of gaza, of the Palestinian People was a legally protected acts. Now, once crimes that might have been a work committed actor that were committed. Now those are crimes sort of like when he was military commit, rape, or murder or anything else that happens overseas. Those are crimes, it doesnt then immediately invalidate the action if it werent legal of a military action. But to yet, to answer your 1st question, this is so frustrating because what was stated by the United Nations is so blatantly obvious and even more so how frustrating it is that it took him 16 days of indiscriminate, 24 hour bombing of civilian locations before he said that and then they, they, they go so far as to attack him on the un revoke they are you there. Theyre devil at access or it and then also literally condemn them and ask for them to resign before stating an objective reality. You know, just shows you that the theyre trying to whitewash the actions against civilians and gaza. Now on that point, if youll, if youll let me continue for one more 2nd, i think its important that we understand that there is no way to remove the we, if youre bombing places where there are civilians present. Whether or not they claim theyre using as human shields, and we can get into that which the u. N. Is investigated and found that im off. Hasnt been doing that. But that means that you are still committing a crime thats collected punishment. Political is now writing or goals about how its now somehow legal because theyre using them as human shields. We know that if anybody else was doing this, they would be treating them like, like the criminal that they should be treated as. So its just, its gets to the grotesque and what theyre doing is white washing the crimes. They would have a hold of anybody else accountable for what you know, george is going to budapest. Dear george, you know, its really quite remarkable is that, um theyve been logged and said because these governments in the west were elected, that means the people that elected these governments that are committing crimes against arabs and muslims. They are legitimate targets. So that western media and the western political role this adopted been loggins doctrine because, well, the uh, the American People apparently voted for joe biden. And joe biden is doing this. Do you see how perverse this logic is . Because then, but then then, you know, you can turn around say, well, Benjamin Netanyahu was elected. So all the people that voted for him or are taught legitimate targets as well. I mean, its all very perverse, but its being adopted george. It has indeed the irony to what you just said, which is the house as boys described in the western media as the not legitimate representative of the Palestinian People, not even the legitimate representative of the people of gaza. Indeed, guys is often described as a military dictatorship, which means that its even less of your justification to punish the people of gaza for the alleged depredations of thomas. I mean, at least when the guys have been alive is that when you have these democratic elections, you, you, you, you know, you say theyre all democratic and therefore the people who chosen but ministrations that are one off through another kind of assumed the same policy in the middle east, for example, all unconditional support for his role. So therefore this has no descent as far as the political elite is concerned in the United States, on the issue of israel, apple. It says the reason that the American People are guilty of all the crimes of isabel because its a ridiculous piece of logic, but it can indeed be applied to israel. And so therefore, the, they get all the argue this of all of this, all the, you know, crimes you know, the game targeting civilians. Well, yes, its true that thomas a targeted a civilians in the, on october the 7th. But they also targeted military, like i said, they have attacked the ministry basis, which is kind of similar to what most of the countries do with United States. Uh only the bombs, it bumps military diet. It also attacks civilians argues so they have over the literally attempt to suggest the homeless exclusively attacks a civilians august is completely wrong, but its not deliberately to suggest that somehow what happened on october. The 7 in is like all the cause. It was just simply an attempt to eradicate the jewish people. Its a completely false narrative, but you know what is perpetrated in order to adjust the but anything that israel wants to do well, and of course, george, Nothing Happened before october 7th. Lets say we everything was calm, everyone was happy, everyone was thing and come by a. Lets go back to the professor in, in town. And your 1st answer to me, you, you, you talked about the, the, the end of israel, the, the, the, the, the existential threat that is real faces right . Now, that is very real. And you know, as we wait i, i tend to think that there will not be a mass of Ground Invasion because theyll just lose and they dont want to lose. And there are, but there are people in israel, they want a preemptive strike on that has, has the law up north, i think that is very bad calculation as well. Your thoughts into that and go ahead a look as you have seen by the certain model of the match or under prince president has a old warrant is read about the Ground Invasion niger by the nor major on us are concerned about kind of sending us its Crystal Clear for them that the Ground Division we create a quick life. Where is that . And guess why . You know, when these 362, i mean square kilometers area was there. It was under the occupation of is, are in the hands of diversion, including our shuttle i used to work, had to describe these rise difficulties and guys, finally during quite a bit through its meetings or forces from guys in 2005. This happened to the time to pursuing as reflecting bit store and not with besides capable of reaching columbia or over the muslim world. Not tolerate Ground Invasion was a mistake, could activate other t is right. Forces in your engine is right. Is ordered the barbecue. Yeah. It is already at the water. We live in them, in case of agree off dropped invasion is right. It should prepare itself to flight and mazda front of lot that its been not be capable of fighting, cannot because its legs strategic, big, you know, such as a gift, is a term immunization registered. That diversity is thousands between to prophesies and the heart to that is right. Next it, im wondering if the residence of the occupied territories, ive spent enough time in the recent years learned streaming industry or not. Its very interesting, ryan, because this is the, the strategic dilemma that israel faces in it. And its a dilemma that it created for itself in the what weve been. Well, those of us that have studied this is its it 56 years in the making. Know and should be surprised by this. Go ahead before we go to the break. Yeah, well i mean, really were talking about 75 years plus if you want to get really specific about it in regard to occupation, but, you know, the, the, the legal state of israel is a legal reality. Right . So we have to always go from there. We have to understand that this is an illegal occupation, but you know, theres, theres a lot of new wants to it. Obviously its been going on a really long time, and theres people innocent people on all sides. And i think thats what this conversation needs to. What were trying to make clear as it is what the whole point is. All the programs im making about this is theres context folks. Theres context. And when we have context, then we can have a discussion, gentlemen, im going to jump in here. Were going to go to a short break, and after that short break, well continue our discussion on palestine state will talk to you the welcome back. Across stock were all things are considered. Im peter will build to remind you were discussing palestine. The okay, lets go back to george in, in budapest, george. Weve seen the ongoing that the Security Council going nowhere. And its basically the United States and its allies. But that just insist on repeating over and over again in every way possible fashion, you know, is what it has the right to self defense. Well, yeah, it does. Okay. I dont know what the argument is here, but actually its, its code. Its a coded narrative to say, because it has the right to self defense. It can do anything, it wants to in response. And that is that they the, the catch right there. And thats why other countries on the Security Council wont go along with it. Because then they would be complacent in ethnic cleansing and genocide, george and thats exactly right. Its a bizarre kind of a talking point is where it has a right to self defense, which means you have israel can do whatever it like. And then the car all the way over that is the cost of the attack on this. Nebula is kind of arrow of uranium. Well, well, they dont recognize that these rails white to exist. Of course thats also totally untrue because opposed to they do. But the issue a big deal, except that anyone can, i mean nobody has a right to exist. But the issue is of course, what the, what are the final borders of the state of israel. And that, that is pretty much in the dispute. But the been going back to you appointed by the United Nations. It is easy that to all of the United States and this out id say is, well, this is an attack on the jews, the jewish people, and they have full since we dont want to repeat the holocaust, you know, we have to give essentially the jewish people a blank check or whatever they want them. It is very much integrated by the battle of the German Foreign ministers as a we in germany of a special uh bomb with israel because about a terrible pause. And thats what we always have to support israel. And of course its, its completely nonsensical because anything that you do have still to be in conformity with International Humanitarian law. Just saying that when you have a right to defend yourself, yes, you have a right to defend yourself, but you dont have a right to use a risk. Disproportionate pause and you dont have a ride to violate all these norms. If its a national human, you manage their lowest, such as cutting off a civilian population from food awards of electricity. Uh few hold. Uh that is obviously a violation to say that this somehow is about our right to defend ourselves, but its obviously a line. Well, no it, this is, it calls to suspend morality is what its all about and its, and its an exception only this time. Well, no International Humanitarian law should apply all the time to everyone. Its really quite remarkable. I want to say this to all my guess is real, is a child is the child abuse nighted nations. United nations made is real. Okay. And, and of all countries to defy its rules and resolutions. You know, thats never pointed out here. Lets go back to the professor, intent on. Im sure professor, do you notice that it would that theres a, an at colewell be a post 911. 00, a more on global pair and of course, era and is always in the center of it all. Okay, so let me get this straight. Uh, people uh, under occupation in gaza, break out of an open air prison attack is ready at least including civilians. And so the United States has to attack around, can you explain that logic to me because im not sure i get it. If the United States could take, you know, on it have it has, it would have done it. Induce of 4 to 5 years. It is not able to do so and look at this now, and thats it. Guess youre on it when a guess is right. Again, guess about us sending us the risk as no longer be able to to, to interfere to save yours. Right . For the same reason that it couldnt topple it legitimacy and call them until impressionists were the same reason that they couldnt extend nature to josh and products, but of sanders. And that they couldnt embed either on despite frequently claiming that the options are on the table to see full options or not on the table develop today is very different from what it was a decade or 2 ago. And theres no reason for your eyes interferes at us in the us are strong enough. There is, theres just us forces injuries and are at their strongest position in history and is it, and its based as supporters are at their biggest position. So i think how most, so it is the best time to take back the occupied territories. I think a it will be no more, no mastercard, to mark the end up user in the end of the user, wed be marked by done by an event creation division. But we saw enough understanding about the use me to forces be repeated just for the she deserves and residents of the territories. My suggestion is that if the best of the doors are concerned about the lives of design issues, provide free slide services for the so the occupied forces to anywhere in the world. They have come from. Theres no need for and a lot of war the United States is not able to wage war. Well they, they may try, ryan and the, the, the worry is that they might fail. I dont think has pause, afraid of 2 aircraft carriers. And they use management. I dont think theyre afraid of it. I mean they, theyve had their fighters in syria, theyre prepared, theyve been waiting. I would say, from their perspective for a situation like this through a rise for a very long time. And these rileys fear has blah, they definitely fear it. But you know, overall, just kind of an overarching thing. Here. It is really the pathetic state of the west where had jim and a trump humanity. I mean, they have the language of humanitarian rights and theyve, they tried, they and they use, i guess i use it as a console, very often around the world. But its really hollow in its meaning because if there is an exception, then the rule doesnt work. Go ahead, right . Yeah, and this is a classic tactic. And i mean, you can look back through all of that and pretty much all of us foreign policy. The joe graph and make on my show is that theyre batting 0, right . They claim were fighting for freedom, were trying to get freedom to these countries and they and they topple and destroy and leave it in a ruin and go to the next one and the next one. And so either they are the worst possible country in the world that actually starting freedom, or maybe theyre not actually trying to spread freedom. You know, its like why we let that continue is beyond me, libya left as you know, its open slay market. Now, just warring factions and we just never talk about that, it was, you know, over and over and over. So they dont have the moral high ground here. I think what youre pointing out is important that they use these terms in order to control the perception and literally the actions of other people and including their allies. I mean, look at what happened with north spring pipeline in germany. I mean, its very clear, these people are the very ones that they act like their adversaries are in regard to a disregard for international law. You know, so nobodys your whole, theyre standing as legitimate right . We need to, i mean, but i forget the persons name and i wish i remember it right now, but a palestinian representative on, i believe it was, bbc made a very, very important point. The only thing that the Palestinian Resistance and the policy and representatives are actually asking for at this moment is the equal application of international law. Think about how important obvious that is and you know, pretty well what, what a radical idea isnt it just, it just saying the obvious, its extraordinary, you know, towards, you know, it was, we were brought up to, to hate around the media. I, you know, we had all the think tanks and all of that. And you know, here, here we go, this is kind of how its frame the crazy mall of the crazy people and cut out over and over again demonizing them dennis rating them. But this is exactly how western leaders act right now. Okay. Theyre the ones that are fanatics. There they have lost their mind. George, thats exactly right. That is very amusing, that the so there is this logic of being uh, offered by uh, width and leaders. Especially in the United States that because iran, uh, this supported holl us and because he runs the boards as well. Uh and the other uh, proxy pools is um, iran must be bones. And this has been said by Lindsey Graham is by said by uh, Joseph Lieberman formal Vice President ial candidates. I didnt even know lieberman was still alive and to leave the notes. I didnt know that. Okay, i thought i thought that we moved on to greener pastures. Okay. Yeah, so lead me to but, but thats the iran is there for a legitimate target, because the, when it comes to ukraine, they dont say that they, the nato powers are legitimate targets for essentially bank rolling and bolting and arming. Um the ukraine, right. What would win auto body to the conflict . So again, its an ellipse, the inconsistency. But the problem is if we saw escalating as well, and this is this, the, the issue that one wants to talk about is that is why it has Nuclear Weapons in this room. Unlike anyone else is ready to use the, i mean, we know how ruthless is where you live so. So if it is indeed of israels destiny to be involved in a multi front wall, that it was in danger of losing as well. We would use use a weapon so, and i dont think is any doubt about that. So its a, its a very dangerous situation. Um and uh, and then it was one that so you know, weve come to and, but were able to do because no one has attempted to restrain is what i mean physically or what to use. Usually what was, what would model of in and the rest of them say is right as a right, the defendant somebody has the right. So lets go back to the professor right. While rapidly running out of time. I really do, im glad george brought up the issue of Nuclear Weapons because i also think it considering how these railings want to destroy a mouse, which means we will have to destroy all the palestinians that they could resort to weapons of mass destruction. Maybe not a new killer weapon, but other ones. I mean white foss, squarespace, they use it on a regular basis now apparently, and no, no one calls them out on your thoughts be as we end the program, go ahead. Oh no, it is and will not be able to use and exert at times because as you see it, the most forces have not be eh, killed by need, service, need your services are going to destroy the order of people is right. Is fighting. Come us, the option is not due for a nikiya, meek service on the option is going and to invade an inmate from the ground and is where it was not. We did not succeed. As i said, it is not capable of invading guys of problems from the drones because homeless has prepared and planned for it. But i meant for a lot bar and, and if its right in tears, because a live alarm from syria and from some other forces. Its me to be attacked. Usually the best plan to destroy it is right. So a well gentlemen, gentlemen, were rapidly running out of time. Obviously were going to keep a very close eye on the events here. But one of them, the, the, the primary purpose of this program is to show the, the rank hypocrisy of the west when it uses the words of human rights and International Human rights law. Its just suffocating lee, a stupid, okay. As all the time we have gentlemen, i think my guess in budapest, for franklin and into around and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. Are to see you next time. Remember, pass that rules the the, the, theres a mizzi says its what im pulse is are expanding operations into gaza, right . The addition to the on the strikes on the posting territory. Garza has also brought us into the information block outside of the insects has been cut into the terrace. In the past. In right crescent says its lost in contact with the team on the ground. Both of those in the say they are off and running out of space and it was a constant influx of casualties as is really fx on the territory continue the