Im actually under tendency and welcome back to going underground pool. Gusting all around the world from the u. A, the entire global south is a gusty and horrors, nato, a nation multi 1000000. 00 weaponry rains down on the besieged, gaza strip. But engaging another world is trying to be born at tomorrows, the belt and road for them for International Cooperation. This in stark contrast in ages was enjoy bidens in the middle east to your be can only kara door unveiled as a counterbalance to china with much fanfare at the recent new delhi g to at the meeting. Someone who will be out of aging for him tomorrow is the same, the scar, vice chairman of the belt and rhode institute. Hes also southwest asia coordinator at the shirts. If you need join, see from stockholm and sweden as a thank so much for coming on the show. Ive got the, the book that you wrote a few years ago, extending the new silk road to west asia and africa. But of course, while tomorrow it may be this, the, the, the forum im showing kind of escaped you, that the nature of nation propaganda media says its basically a failure easily is leaving china as partners rolling depths. China is a Property Market is collapsing with you probably say actually the propaganda may be symptomatic of its success and will that be discussed tomorrow youre going to be there . Yes, so thank you. Ill shoot for it. I mean its my pleasure. Yeah, sure. I mean, all these predictions that i sense when i think you have 2000 china has collapsed many times. According to these, a dues, say theres uh, you know, producing china small and collaborative has been going on for 20 years, is not going to happen. China has a completely different structure. They can always start to another about chinas own growth and development is dependent on the growth and their loved ones in the world, which is an interesting actually factor we can discuss about this. The road for tomorrow is a very, very important, a combination of a series of the some is involving most the, this global south. Remember, we had the, the russia, i protest on the china. I freaked out some of this year. We had the brakes, summits which now depot grades, the new members a very, very significant to develop. And also the end of last year we had the china error summit and china adult corporation counseling summit. Now, all these things enroll, trying to, and all these things in go, the bills are Road Initiative and it is incorporated and all these uh, developments knowledge of wanting to remind people that theyve built enrolled initiative is i think its going to be this was great. This the Biggest Development initiatives, all right, is cold and also the depths that the we have seen the so far. I think the most important issues which will be presented, i guess is 1st of all, is that the we have another test that reversed weve been, it will be a demonstration of that shed miss of the built in wrote initiative the last 10 years. All the projects which were built all the developments, but also the resilience of the road in the face of all these dues, they uh, predictions that despite all the vilification and the negative media and attacks political attacks on the road, its increasing and membership. Now we have 152. 00 nation joining that sort of international organizations. And so the nations were outside the building road are actually today are minority. Its important to, i think, to note that the milton Road Initiative has, is probably a new model for trash Boundary International cooperation based on the dynamic cooperation Economic Development. Without affecting, without the ceiling in the sovereignty of nations on the political, social, and cultural structures of nations. Which makes it unique, that these nations bank, we on certain more universally accepted principles that are related to the Economic Development that grows eliminating poverty and aligning the policies, coordinating the policies, do we use the go the sustainable level up in bowls. Okay. But that does it by thing, is that the thing is that uh, i mean, obviously nature propaganda major is not going to mention the band dont get caught a high speed rail way as they discuss the fact the inventors of Railway Britain got even have a high speed railing from london to the, to the north of england. But so what do you say about the fact that the washington i may have had to bailouts or lanka . We chose china 41000000000. 00. And the fact that the total bailout loans from china between 20082021 or 240000000000. 00 look at the engine team. A look at to bug is fun. Gone is, am, be, are in default of the Mountain Road is not going uh the way that the Chinese Communist party predicted it in quite a few countries as they fail. I think there is a nice thing of the apples and oranges here we have a Global Financial crisis and the most effective nations are the United States and europe to britain. As everybody can notice. We have an International Financial on banking system, which is not based on Economic Development. Then growth is based on financial speculation, gambling which has ruined many nations. And now we have had a series of crises, including the grain prices that go with 19 prices, which but many, many nations into hosted konamis of financial situations. This has nothing to do with china. It has nothing to do with the bit with the initiative these nations and which everybodys talking about now. So we talked about the stalls. Im the many nations in africa. They have been in these difficulties long time ago. And the real death trap was actually set up before china and the bells arose, came bumped to the seat of these nations. How seemed their economies being explained by the farmer colonial powers. There was civil wars, they were terrorism, there was the cold with 90. Nobody pays attention to these things. We did the thorough investigations, all the cases of street bar and go back in style and zombies and the causes of their prices have nothing to do with china. Chinas portions about the death of these nations. And so you lock up and that is only 10 percent on top of that, the 10 percent of china is, is, is, has low do, is read on caps, is the finance and for aspects of progress will make it sweet 9 to come out of it. Surprises while the 90 percent dance include advisory lines of belonging to west as private and multi level financial interest, is the docs has all contributed to any growth of this. Were not getting down as it was the aspect, but that debt still exists and isnt the point that the facts that uh and the mill road may be succeeding and so many other countries away from all of that propaganda. Well delegates tomorrow understand that it is in the interest as uh, the hawks in washington. See it to destroy all the progress created by the built in rhode Initiative Like weve seen with the United States. Its got you raj and tina. Weve seen the with him run con claims and focused on happened to him and weve seen, nor the stream pipelines being destroyed by the, by the administration. So well delegates fully understand that this conference in badging, the United States, the fed off the ukraine, china. Thats what you crane is about. Theyll destroy the infrastructure that everyone will be excitedly discussing tomorrow. Well, i think the reason of these nations have come to badging to turn this on tomorrow because they believe that this is an important aspect of the future Economic Development and uh, which can also lead to peace if it actually, i dont believe that is indeed price of the United States and europe, they used to destroy a trying not to destroy the bells our own efforts and their interest to promote. We say, sorry to interrupt. Were seeing the European Union arguably act again since economic interest repeatedly is it followed the United States from one more into another. And all china ever does is a issue harsher and harsher words against you. As far as the policy. We see that from the statements made by a Chinese Government spokesman, but, you know, just looking for the United States doing in the philippines. This. Yeah, it is. The Chinese Communist party even understand many us basis around it, left us own surround all the Infrastructure Projects around the world. Yes, we have a very dangerous at the security and it is a situation in the world which is the because of the aggressive policies of nato and the United States. And the difference in philosophy, this is where this whole issue of the bills are owned its, its a new philosophy of governance among nations where it is that the prosperity of china is the down and bound to prosperity of other nations including the United States. Now this is going to be a bit of a huge up table. All the governors philosophy, we have have a 0 sum game that jump political manipulations is not the interest of the United States that china developed our route sales. This is something which surprises shots, the Chinese People why youre in the United States are acting against their own interest. Well, of course they dont realize that they may have certain lease. Indeed were going to deny it stays. Well, im not really serving the people of the, the, all of the nations, but thats sort of a special economic and financial security. Lets be industrial interest. This is something very important for the chinese brand. Is that because every time they, they see what the United States is doing, they see why this is counter productive. Why are they doing bits . So we have a shift in the global situation. At the end of the day, we ology will be the judge northwest, but the dishes, whats the trap of just talked about . Because they cut the realities of economic, social, and financial collapse and cultural collapse in the west. And if you are, for example, and in the United States, this will be determining factors. And the success of china is all as its neighbors. The aspect on space and video is uh, click on all these boxes. This will improve the, you know, at the end of the day, which way the weather has to go. Look, we have had this fantastic, the brakes. We had the shy fault ration organization expanding more and more nations month to joint that there is a completely new power Dining International relations which those nations are, you know, hoping to join because they have them lost all space and pull in these. So uni paulo world was the United States and nato, and the you have to be and then we dont know when the United States and do you will wake up. So thats we allergy but the rest of the world, the majority of the global majority people, the mobile stuff is moving already. But the different direction, the only thing which will stop it is i come back to this make an event. Such a was more which will be followed by nuclear weapons. Otherwise, this new Global Economic border with china is leading russia. Is there the break stations are there . The ill see ive got to be asia, is there a now there are countries, i wont be that direction. As it goes will be direction. Many companies in south america is moving that direction. Nothing can stop that unless we have a global war. Well, ill get to the israel, ill get to the issue or, but to me you mentioned cultural collapse, you c, l, e to control of media and culture in nato nations is so strong that many ordinary working people do perceive china as an enemy. Possibly because of the propaganda or in the daily news. And of course, with the aid of hollywood, is just trying to understand how it not only supports any message that you might have given just now in the developing world where america is still seeing the United States, as youll seen as a, as progressive in some way rather than regressive it develop, it does a bunch of the developing world, let alone maybe even in china, let alone the working classes of nato countries. So actually that quite unified in nature, countries on the United States, behind the model of as you see it, self destruction. Yeah, thats unfortunate. That is a terrible, but i think there will be shifts even in, in europe. And in my space, us, people realize that this is not, this is suicidal, but germany is doing is suicide. The German Industries many german dust without leaving the country that will be to asia and moving to the United States. Moving to the gulf countries because they find out that their petitions are about kildere and therefore they have to find somewhere else the to survive. Now how, how much pressure from the population will dump lois do towards the political change in the United States and in europe is not clear. The elections in the United States will be very important. But i think the majority of people around the world have realized that the United States and you are especially with the quote with crisis which they all the weaknesses of that their, their power was expelled. And now with the brain the war even more. They suppose they are, the enabled that the, these mighty powers, im not really able to do anything uh to for example, does he try ship and the rest of the world now realizing that this is a strong man in the field, i would say its a scary but it has very little substance and you know, as it says that the state of affairs been but nations. I look whats happening in west africa as a and this guy, ill stop you. The more from the vice chairman of the belt, rodents, huge in sweden and southwest asia coordinator, the Center Institute for this break, the welcome back to going on the ground. Im still here with the vice chairman of the building road institution, sweden whos saying this guy, this is a new were about to talk about west africa where theres been a lot of developments, obviously, uh, this year against the french imperialism. But youre also talking about the threats of global war that could stop the dreams of being talks about it. Tomorrows belton road to form for International Cooperation can, can the Shanghai Cooperation Organization had to built in road and replace. Um, well, can it be nato, basically in the context of what youre saying about war . Yeah, i dont think the chinese and asian nations of the shiny gold rush and they see themselves as a rival which have to destroy the west. They dont want to have that china, it has been, but yeah, i didnt mean about destroying the assignments protecting the milton or hurt initiative. As i said, as i said before, we know how they destroy infrastructure from the north stream pipelines, supplying natural gas from russia to germany. Every railway line, every road, every built that is created with chinese investments in partnership with developing well the government is shortly on the threat as it is under threat. But nations are trying to protect themselves. Look at the practice on, for example, the, the chinese engineers have been active building the class, the roads, the boards app is under attack. Many, many times, many of them were killed by terrorist groups. Separate these groups werent working, you know, for other interest, but they never gave up because this is a, as a substantial question for both pakistan in china. So its very interesting because the chinese side is, is proving that really the secuity costs what you can out of the office all the other way around. If you dont have, you cannot make them at all because you dont have prosperity in a society, its gonna be secure way. But dont you think every time china, i mean i was in damascus interviewing browser thats id be able to watch our interview and rumble. China was just making efforts to invest in reconstruction there. And the United States as allies were really bombarding is, as you said, impact your son, can they not, in spite of proxies as they have in the past, the terrorists, as theyre even cooled in the major nations with the, the, i dont get them to the thing so aging, yeah, yeah. Things are changing and looking, for example, at the symbolic gesture, when the chinese president stance is own president ial airplane, to transport president chavez, of the official 1st lady to be to china for the summons. Basically, this is a shift in this or that you cannot swenson and present the secuity of our friends. Now these are not the allies, the chinese dont like the allies. They like to have friends. But china is, is drawing a line there with the kaylee threatening the security regardless of that visit to magic. Because joe biden occupies a 3rd of the country there, and it has all the energy in northern syria. Thats true. The reason that they are capable of doing that is because the turkey, which is an angel member, but also have not decided which way he wants to go. And iraq is an unstable country. So when these things run these nations for starting to think about their own future, that will shift and the United States will not have people to rely on to continue this policy. Look, i really dont think they have people to rely on in the leads of developing well nations who may school their own children at western Business Schools and the want their children to be educated in the nature of nations. They, they dont have enough in the lead. So all these developing countries doing building Road Initiatives that actually favor the new liberal model over the china is model. Yeah. Well those, those leaders, for example, the children are being bobas thrown in west africa right now. Those were loyal to france and bring the of the United States. That vehicle was wrong. Theres a new generation there, which is, you know, taking over low down more africans getting education in china today than africans getting education. And brittany and the United States. China has surpassed those 2 countries already in 2018. All the fries is still at a, trying to, for historical reasons. So nations, people will send their children there and the children, actually, the china will probably to russia and other places where they will get their education in the future. Because they realize that theyre the west is it homeless . The only thing in the west is doing is taking advantage of them. So there is a reality we have to talk about the economic realities of nations. This is, was really the term is everything at the end. Saudi arabia, the gulf countries have been loyal friends and allies of the west, but look at the ship which has taken place because those nations can no longer live with the fact that they have dependent every morning they have to look at the oil price on the tv screen, if they go to survive this month, so not dealing with 3. 00 major loyal shocks in the, in this decade, in 2014, 2016 at 2020 with saudi arrived. Yet the largest boiling spot was on the brink of going bankrupt. And do you know what that means socially and secure the terms . So saudi arabia have decided that they no longer going to go with the whole system where they can sell oil and buy a luxury stuff and for that. So they want to become an industrial nation. And who is ready there with the engineering, scientific, technological capability to help them become an industrial nation, is china. And thats why in the last years summit, between china as other ideas, 13 major cooperation agreements and very, very important sophisticated, did listen to the speech given by president. She didnt think in his stomach with the gulf cooperation causal leaders. There was 5 points which i would like to drill peoples very great name. Now, i will not mention them all of the very quickly. Besides, people focus too much on the china wants to buy oil in the local currency and you are from the gulf countries from knowledge of 2060, this is very important, but this is a big talk about industrialization. 5, g, 6, g to communication systems, proud technology space, co Operation Technology in the space. Training astronaut, Nuclear Power development, a sort of sofa. So is a waste because its presented, which of course, given the nature of ation, media here is uh, you know, weve been showing the us bullet issues talking about the war and ukraine really being about the future war on china. Its singleton easily talking about the fact the jo bidens um, in the middle east. Your, because a little bit closer to door imac is going to somehow, you know, make the belt road in nature to have some small footnote in history. Is it actually true . But it ends in perez board, which is controlled by the Chinese Government. Just describe quickly what this you have bite and the initiative which is being celebrated and nature propaganda media like the bbc and cnn actually is one of those, those bbc, us. Yeah, they dont want to think about economics unless the us present by the and the, the posted up on the line these but they dont barely go about comics and barely go about geography. Now kind of does not control the photo pretty right. Its the china is operating the port out there. I is the corporation with the read government trying to is not going to imperialist country. They told me to do as board which was for sale. The you in the, you force agrees to sell the autopay has to pay it steps try that, came in and developed it. Know china is also building the railways. Everybodys talking about that this a, in the middle east, the europe a current or trying to as building the railways. Do these been your best and for you . I did that. Didnt make it into the years involved. I didnt make it into the news. Obviously the china was a central part of it, nor did it make any and using the bindings, i have to blame, change, and errors. United ever as china is involved in building that it has raised. A network in china is involved in the saudi land bridge. Projects, its china, build 2 major ports and these are out and 55 and i flew as the one i sold was. Okay, but what about bite and blinking is build back better world and partnership for Global Infrastructure investment. Youre all these just pos, schemes by nature, nations have helped by that propaganda media to try and attempt to, to make out phases, compatriot building road. Absolutely. They, you look, if you want to compete with the bill, several different build, better as faster railways. You should build better and more efficient power plants. You should build better and more efficient ports on the airports, United States, and youre unable to do these things anymore. They cannot finance them. They cannot bill, but they dont have the engineering as killed capacity with china that has to be the states. So this is not the way its going to be. These are just propaganda they. This is the 7th or 8th initiative boss. Its not the 1st of all and all these things are like, all the air has no substance. You know, i would all right, well actually on the, on the other issue of not no substance. And they give it up on the, on this says in gen genocide story that we covered on going underground as a, as a lie. And they give it up on talking about this fake genocide in nature. They are, its fading away. I call it this silly is genocide a district because for the 1st time the victims of genocide are growing and number and their Living Conditions are improving. This is a very silly kind of genocide. And therefore, you know that the, even the company is worth trying to sleep shinji i, they have to go back and work it and try and i wasnt trying to reset it. Look to the big guys in the find tech at the banking is, are, these are big american, a foundation, european bass and company. Everybody knows it, that they want to prosper and they want to have their business. They have to work with china. Now these, the whole situation and ukraine has, but the big problem for working was russia, but the door is still open to china. And the one of those interesting things i should mention here is that the, you know, the dishes doc live in reality, when the ukraine war broke out. Uh, many things, parents and media and the way i said, oh mister fulton kill, theres so crow, which they mean that theres this important right away from china was prizes through central asia. Because x style washer fellows in the poland, this has become one of the most important transport entrees for the industrials on both ends in china. And you are especially the old, the industrial and mesa office to get an industrial. Now everybody was says, oh, when the they did the warning ukraine started, they said this has been a scott, i was almost the only one. I went then and it started investigating the whole thing. I said, no, no, no, its not finished. This is going to actually continue and grow because youre cannot survive without this. And therefore they didnt dockwood sanctions on the russian and bellows re weight and car companies. So these are the trays continue to go from china to your, from you up to china. There was a short disruption at the beginning of the war 2 to 3 months, but its continued that increase as i predicted. Now listen to this that you are right. Thats 90 percent of the where as metals used in europe come from china. How do they come in a quick way . They come through this way away with go passes through the nose of the russians and bill comes into poland. Many of the rear metals i use in the, on industrial your, including died tax the munition use in the war in ukraine against russia. All these ro, materials they pass from china, russia to better use, enter your, and they continue to do that until today. Thats reality. Reality is not determined by the dishes. You are being investigated, especially in germany. Well, most of by, without working with china and without keeping the door open through bella luce and question. This is my big argument that we have a physical and the comics we ality and believe dishes are not itd be out if you want to talk about the comics. We always talked a business man. Talk to industrialists, how they see that the out things are moving between east and west, out into the attendance. Kind of the entire, the Global Supply chains are. This is what the chinese that frankly gets people down to is that you cannot the couple you cannot disentangled yourself. Otherwise you are, you are committed, suicide is a nice guy. Thank you. And thats it for the show. Remember, we bring you brand new episodes every sunday and monday and until then, keep in touch via all social media. If its not sensitive in your country and had to have channel going on, youre going to be hon. Theyll come to whats new and old episodes of going underground. So you see the the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the, i suggest holding jobs are now reaching 2600. Thank you and says, the region is quote, on the verge of the, of this be combined with air and crisis reaches new levels. Now, food, water, medical supplies, they are all running out the United Nations peacekeeping, fault and 11 on his court in the cross file as israel and the hezbollah exchanged places. One of the places where most milton and took the 1st such a day entering peoples houses, killing civilians,