But the textbook was i havent really fully comes terms with style and as a person though i see as, as a political like to. And so thats why i wrote this particular book and yeah, it, it, well, it was a journey of, of discomfort as far as i was concerned. And i suppose the most important thing i just got put on that journey. Was that okay . Yes, you know, style name was the intellectual amount of ideas. A great read the. He was a communist, he was a marxist. Right. But the thing, our discounts i didnt really understand before was the, he was a feeling intellectual, right . Emotional that some power, always audiology and politics, right . And its not emotionality. The emotional falls off. Hes all geology these postings, which enabled him to actually rule in the particularly falling to pick tutorial, whether you could do something emotionality of style and as a, as a dictator. And insulation that, that what that was a crucial revelation for me. But it also another point which id like to mention it because some actually in the book is that, you know, you might say, well, okay, so he was a feeling emotional intellectual. Would that be emotionality . Come from and he asked that question i think is that it coming from stallings early christian opry, before starting mostly developed monk safety. Was that the, the christian . And i think that this is the transmission of stallings emotional. Really just you havent really deals to feed into his mouth as a communist the and socialist. Yeah, well i mean, many scholars before, you know that, that the, this a server and attitude towards marxism and the socialism was simply, you know, another form of religion for many of the leaders of his time. Many bolsheviks at least now. Uh you, you mentioned the many oh stollins books contain extensive markings rich to quote, to you reveal that he valued ideas as much as power and up. He was a true believer in the strength of the word and it reminds me of the opening verses of the bible in the beginning was the worth, which could also be translated as in the beginning was longer as the meaning making capacity. And i think it already partially answered my question, but i want to oppose it. And on the last, do you think there was something religious or newman thats about the way style is related to not just the ward but know which they know says yeah. And just the truth of the point, you might be the last go. Those have noticed the connection between stones religious upbringing, ninetys boxes. I think thats true. But i think the thing about the library is that you can actually see that in the source is on the pages you can see solving, spelling, stick, feet, savings. Yeah. I suppose the other thing is to kind of on a geologically stalling definitively, did you break with pieces . Were they just operating . Yeah, stalling. Didnt see. Okay. Is that the magic marxist . He believed in the intrinsic any tunnel truth of marxism. But that wasnt for him. A mattress size, it was a mattress. What do you consider to be thoughts so scientific of absorbs of ation. Yeah. So you know that theres an emotional connection between just on is the question, installing this as a communist, but at the intellectual crew. A connection is much less, it is much more tenuous. Now as you write in your book, like all the bolshevik leaders style in, believe that the reading could help transform no just peoples ideas and consciousness, but humor nature itself, he, sore writers ends as a engineers of the human soul, which is the subject you have dedicated a separate chapter in, in your book, and when somebody is so eager to transform the human nature or re meg, the human soul, i think there is usually something that they cannot accept as this and most likely in themselves. What do you think makes style in so bad on re making their human so, and im asking a here a, not the you, im asking you not as a historian, but it actually is a human being because its a very intimate personal notation as a to you as a really interesting question of a postal question, im not going to give you a personal so old about should lead us were intellectuals, right. All of them believe in reading engagement body is all of them had big libraries. So sony wasnt unique in that respect. Okay. Yeah, i guess this question about transform submission stuff. Yeah. We got up to why was the cost of what was he and the both is constantly grosse, be in that direction and theyre doing that because to their ideas that he tokens, they genuinely kind of like believe that this transformation of human nature, they say its possible of course, they dont the truth because thats one of the fundamental stages of the soviet project to solve it. So just the site you get to actually create that utopia that theyre striving for. Now, personally, i can understand that because i will see you type, you know, i do this myself as a young man, so i understand that strong thing. And i also understand, you know, the personal emotional thing. If youre trying to process something, which you cant quite get there and you, you understand, you know, the difficulties you have to. So what about so skepticism about it . So i have so theres a little personal insight into this book as well. That goes to the chemist between the install is that still on remind to not use giving names the utopian. He was the rather prospect for this is his power of protective steam from belle. Its you to some extent, and im also an avid student of psychology. And then psychology, idealization mental ization of rationalization in a tendency to make things abstract. They are considered to be a typical psychological defense is when do you dont want to connect with the, you know, of human nature in yourself when it seems to, you saw, you know, imperfect or disdainful that you would rather think about something, you know, shiny down the down the lines and address it in yourself. Yeah, i kind of agree with that, but lets dont forget the point of making the about the emotional basis of storage police. So these are geology politics, lets know sort and also um lets do it on the site. The importance of kind of the rational for that this has thing. So it easy you believe this idea is a no, a rational grounds are in beautiful browsers, belief now im saying is right, but i dont know how to rush the directionality. Oh, its boxes. And so, you know, it is like, its a combination of this combination of it kind of like to personality and emotionality. Combination of very typical steps. Human psychological tribes. This up was look at the, are a function of these rationalist audiology and politics as well. Can i ask you something because you are, you mentioned your book that you see him as what we would now call emotional intelligence. You dont believe that hes feelings or, you know, sensing abilities are split off from. Hes called him gift capacity, and i wonder if youve been able to track not only hes emotional reading of others, but hes own authentic feelings or maybe even suffering in those. Uh, you know, uh, markings on the sides of the books. But i tried to do that as best i county in the book, but even in a sense, its impossible for me to actually summarize the actually here. I think it was the this inklings in yourself when you felt ok. I think this is a style in writing as a human being rather down as a great leader. He imagines himself to be in terms of these library. Yeah, thats the whole point of it. Yeah, the whole point Stories Library has his private reading. Yes, hes personal. Well yes it is. He would be read sometime later. Yeah. Well i think thats probably true. Maybe towards the end of his life. Yes. Yeah. He must have been aware that he will become the object of the attention of people like me. Hell rather Research Just just like many a be coming in his ear. So i thought no, no but, but no to the actual quality of these markings. Its very spontaneous. Its very, its very, very, very, very well. Thank you. Thats absolutely correct. There is an element of performance here, but its a very, very simple and adam and i have a context with a confidential context with style and you speak your right to your editing. Yeah. Then it is much, much more of a performance foot 4 foot for the sort of obviously hes putting on the chart. Thats not the case when were talking about his personal event thats, thats the interest. Thats the power of the soul. Well, i tried to do if i try to, you know, tell you this to show showed read how this works for now we have to take a very short break. We will be back to discussing it in a short time. Thank you very much. The, the, the, [000 00 00;00] the, the change is why is that why in this country if i give but plenty of the store in this shed and a short order, but im not going to stay less. So could i scan when i am, what i could catch at your desktop session . Thats just showing me your just is when you mine is going you said on the, whats the, the, the, the, the spectrum with the parts man. Jeff, turbo boost americas professor of history of the university college, of course, and also felons library dictator and his books. Professor roberts, in your book, you suggest the style indeed notes recoil from the reading. The works of his arch avenue as likely, entrusts keisha was also very much interested in the history of desirous times which soviet propaganda, the time official soviet propaganda fully dismissed. And in order to engage with, thats the kind of material you consider a wrong or a very serious one, needs to have a degree of, uh, flexibility versus intuitive. And toler ends, which is not how styling is remember, what do you think compelled him to engage with the other . Do you think it was primarily his own personal drive or perhaps to come out of the office . Im not sure though id, id use the color of simulation to solve it, but certainly flexibility. Okay. And the sale, its the opposite of us a bit. So it does to to that to yeah. In the context of him being an adult. My to him office. Yeah. Yeah, so it, it wasnt a big surprise to me when i discovered the stone as an intellectual red ta lot. Yeah. He was a learning intellectual. Thats not such a, not such a big, big a big surprise. But what this surprised me was how much you guys with his political opponents and how much he he learned from his political, political opponents. Yeah. Okay. Starting was a marxist. He believed the marxism of his reading was most this stuff. So obviously stuff, comedy stuff. Right. But, but he was prepared to read anything and as anyone, right. And he was prepared to learn from tell you, taught this many. Im not in coming to christ. The using the book is, is the study is his prostate trust. The time was much more in the image of trotsky as an intellectual. Yep. For quite a long time. Let me quote with what the trust key wrote about style. And he describes him as a gift of the wrist. Practicality, a strong will and persistence and carrying out his aims, but also devoid of creative imagination, restricted in his learning methods and political horizons, and stubbornly empirical in his mind and trust. He also rode that solid always seemed to it to him, at least as a man who was destined to play 2nd or 3rd fit though i came playing 1st was not due to style until his talents, but rather be backsliding of the system. I wonder if you detected any sort of intellectual inferiority on the part of style and dont you think he was trying to compensate for something that he saw in trotsky but lacked in himself . No, no, i dont see that so solid. He was supreme lee confident as an intellectual peoples, his own mind. His own monks is just, you know, his own ptolemy as a person, as a political act as not georgia came from within himself as an end to an intellectual. Here he didnt call 12 to any what any w e to present himself has been lending people who got the best student of land. But he did. He was a follow up lennox a but hes yeah, yeah, he wasnt a prison of lending, unavailable changes. His personality, acosta, i think clearly demonstrates that then there was the bed. So yeah, but, but trust is denigration of style is id like to very, very influential feeling. The select shaped perceptions are starting from many, many, many decades now. Yup. Especially perhaps in the west, 5th across. Absolutely. But, but at that perceptions change even in the lesson, probably a function of the fact we thought the collapse this over here in the, in the open up the rush. All cause the storage. And i was a much, much more materials, but you know, to work with. And this is your painted a completely different picture. Not just a stalling, but how soviet system from the one you get get from chelsea. And one of the discoveries of the, the post soviet period in the all cars has the, the extent to which tongue and most of the intellectual, unintended guy, simple ideas of mike book is, is part of that, that body of work. But of course, i have a particular and a sustained focus on strong things, the actual 15 relation to his life as a reader and his and his personal life. As before, now its demons access to for him. Books was limited, not only because of the logistics, but also because he didnt know any other language other than russian in georgia. And yet to point out that style him had a high regard and diligence interest for his political contemporaries. Like Winston Churchill or uh, Franklin Delano roosevelt juicing that. The interest was reciprocated. J thing they, they saw a nickel in him as he saw in them. Oh, available. Uh, absolutely. I mean, one of my other specialities is actually because you are, you must know was the stone is will lead to stall. And during the 2nd world war im particularly the relationship between style in a churchill and originally. Yeah. And this does no, to the Great Respect the, the rules of the contractual has, this dont include respect for stallings no, much the ability and the profundity also. Oh, obviously thinking what i found fascinating is that style in started the american constitution. And i think it was almost unknown both in russian and the west was that he was a paper sided over and was very much engaged in the works of the of the soviet Constitutional Commission that was tasked with drafting the soviet constitution of 1936. Thats at least in writing, attempted to give uh or a to encourage more active grass roots. Political participation in the constitution was passed barely a year before the great terrors which some millions of people to the depths or to the, to the glove. And one thing that i, as a russian cannot understand, is this either secrecy between putting so much time and effort into starting have various societies for government. Because i think that was his key interest in all that he has a reading for see if he has reverting so quickly, so ruthlessly to the tyranny of they are and how and how do you understand that you know, the patients with books and total and patients with the imperfections of, of life and what governing stories overwriting the perotti was to defend socialism defend the revolution finally signed them. He sent it to wherever he could to contribute to socialism. And now he needs for pattern engaging all kinds of projects, activities, which he saw us to bring the coals, including your, at the lake. You know, this new constitution on the 36 constitutional kinds kinds of other things. But, but in the end, you know, he was prepared to do whatever was necessary to the play. Well, funding the revolution, add the uh, the costs to and the huge cost to his side to and hes people. Absolutely. Because yeah, apps because he was the utopia. Yeah. He believe this action was necessary, believe you saw that money funds, this actually is forced upon us by enemies. Right . If we dont do this out and it is all going to crush us, that that is the less than history. Its dawn as a read it. Okay, its times a month this month isnt was a big thing. Piece. Favorite topic was history and the, and the list especially. Yeah, you mentioned the constitution. I was very surprised about stallings interest in constitutional law and im finding a few minutes to do integration. Its an interest that seems to come when the discussing the new saw the constitution. He thought hes a, hes on research, theres no really very important point. Its not always doctors on research, always talk his own reading. Professor roberts, i mean the display that i see here, or if his perceive is that he puts so much f for the interest in researching those patterns, you know, a constitutional, uh, governing, etc. But he doesnt have the strength, the capacity, the patients to put it into practice. Because if you want to defend the revolution, you can defend it by your actions, you know, putting those ideas into practice and materialize and realizing them. But its almost like he persist. Im, im them, she drops and reverts to the old methods that hes defending against the law. I think he possesses them as far as he can. But as i said, you know, hes prepared to do whats necessary. But the kind of argument youve made, its kind of argument many people invite it in relation to style, which is the note, the disjunction between his theory and his practice time, you know, give it, you know, in this the limitations the limitations. Okay, of him. So as to how does that mean to actual vice city essentially, to a very serious read in song. Sometimes it can be quite profound and certainly, but very effective. But in the end, you know, the piece of limits, its good for the human being or the geology policy. So deeply full, right is political practice is usually kind of problem ethics. The reason you said because of the, the impact of the southeast disorder reel on society. I know im on, im on millions of people folks. Yeah. Im not trying to cover anything off the month of yet for any points to understand us. Lets to, its a force, heres any heights that date sites and sees books and for a whole book. I mean, gauging with the questions your raising about strong is big to, to lower real. Im trying to avoid some explanation. Some of the come on, so to, to, you know, why this kind of look actually quite sensitive feeling, intellectual interest in many was controlled as bad stuff as well. Now we talked before about this quite a religious attitude. This started had towards the books and knowledge of the nurses. And i wanted to what a center thing the phenomena of style him was specific to russia is collective sold. Because if we look at the russian history of russian literature, the nonsense or the beginning of the 20th century, with all these painful soul searching, i wonder if the emergence of uh, leaders like style in atlanta was also an outer that that was the inevitable. Yeah. What as far as the roster is concerned, started the closest very kind of looked skeptical about all this stuff about, you know, the russian sold and the essential is a very, in some sense a very typical representative of everything you know, its own way. Just a way out of that, im doing things by yourself exploring. Yeah, i mean very stubborn. Yeah, i feel good. I dont expect somebody to points to. I mean, i dont think strongly but so you can self that way. I dont think he would accept your analysis and i dont think i do of, you know, i think i dont think you need to result to those kind of explanations. You know which one, you know, i think, you know, its much more straightforward and, but to, to actually see stein for what he was because we saw him today. So as a communist, as im all just as a political back to us, the products, a child of his society and thats side as long history of certain print elections and patterns. But he was nobody he was fundamentally of product categories. Um, but she says dont i thought that was on . So if education brought it to my office, Political Police and commitments, marxism Company Makes much more sense to locate stone cans that context. I think anyway, done. It doesnt, you know, the context of the russian tradition but, but maybe maybe thats mistaken, thats may speaking from, from my experience. So as we mentioned earlier in the, into, as a young man, i was very luck. Stone. Except i was a passive, its robin. The live boy thats but for you, what for you locked in the menu. I so political activities, some, some im speaking from my experience, right. I feel but maybe for the restroom perspective, stock and its a very different. I dont want to get too close to contemporary politics, but i do think that they sort of alternate that no 6 tendency coupled with a sense of the rushes, this thing destiny is very inherent to the russian leadership. And they still look at why dont they put him. Hes also out today that he also has a sense of a special way for, for russia, not exceptional, but special way for russia. And i think hes or hes very open about if he reads history books, northwell, azure, but for governing insides, you know, think about that. There are lots of very interesting on comparisons to be made between stalling and i, i dont think about that. See putting as an intellectual, i have to say in the sense that, okay, put anything guys avoid this by. Dont think the, i dont get the impression anyway. There was central, hes to his country and this was just like being that they were stalling. Yeah. So, so yeah, so, so to me, certainly in case of ideas with reading, with literature course of history. Yeah, i mean, just poking is fanatical about the history installing was actually, you know, the, the 2 main comparisons ought to voice for each of my while im thinking about stalling the approaches to successfully the best preference. Secondly, the both devoted multinational, and thats the great content that the r c between the soviet union, the saw, and the Russian Federation that both of forensically Multinational Multi ethnic studies, but stalling uprooted, committed to defending that in multiplan, that multinational character of all of their respect respect, just respect is, but i have one last question and to be only have a few seconds for you to answer it. But i wonder if the sense of autonomy is also one of the main underlying reasons for the current confrontation between russia and the west. This argument over lois, over of the worst with capital w, the rights of the worth and the right to come up with your own thinking in your own way forward for your country. I, i guess i would tend to agree with you in a way you know, in the west you have to kind of like all the geological stuff that always brings to my mind the archie loved to prefer both the style of the soviet period to solve, solve it though solving system, right . And you know, a good deal at d deal at the electrical stuff of fanaticism, dogmatism, or style in the, as, as, as, as, as a marxist, a company. So i think that, yeah, thats a very interesting point that you made to. We have to live in there and thank you very much for your time and thank your congratulations on this very intriguing and very insightful book will fix to print true, very intriguing and insightful. My pleasure and hope hopefully it was also your pleasure. Thank you for watching and hope to hear again and was a part of the, [000 00 00;00] the, [000 00 00;00] the, the 1st time in history. Meantime, countrys culture has been cancelled the very modern weapons cancel culture. They need to ask the associated mile esl in the truck. It just means setting the one who puts the quote, the phrase now particularly refers to counseling russian culture. Yet the worst it could be up to that, i guess when you might have folks to pittsville renewal for this chart. If phillips that go with almost the list of richard, i want them in some way. Blood rushes created over the past 1500 years. Theres no question. Partially condemned, reviled and reject it to sit alone and use that to put somebody at the middle of the panel. Theres a lot, i dont know because i dont know, she does it. I guess it a little some of the list. Joining total condemnation grows daily and now enclosed us to instigate to go skate shots the coverage that, that i need to. Yeah. To invest, but yeah, she thinks that what the w apartment e u the cost of acceptance. And im going to plan with you whatever you do. You do not watch my new show. Seriously. Why watch something thats so different. Whitelisted opinions that he wont get anywhere else. Welcome to please or do have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. Choose your fax for you. Go ahead. Change and whatever you do. Dont want my shell stay main street because im probably going to make you uncomfortable. My show is called stretching time, but again, you probably dont want to watch it because it might just change the way you the disturbing images for that goes off on the schedule as it hits breaking void over ronald with casualties on the funding baffled over 700 housing, children of been killed in idea of strikes with parents pointing fingers of the United StatesEmergency Support the of the this is cham 8 years old. This is use right. 70 years old. Look at how young they are, the us sense weapons to the jews,