Transcripts For RT Worlds 20240703

And thank you for the invitation. Now your book style is library ssl to explore the intellectual life biography. And i would say psychology of joseph stalin, whom you described as the 20th century, most self consciously intellectual dictator. And i think its a somewhat controversial undertaking in this day and age because in order to understand the evil one needs to engage with that rather than dismissed it and condemn it out of hand. Why did you decide to do it at this point of time . Well, what would you come on . The most important thing between sounded by my book in the past on is that he wasnt intellectual. He was a man, man of ideas, as well as action he believed in the transformative power. While it is not just in terms of changing peoples consciousness, but in terms of tracking human nature and as a couple of months as the socialist. You know, he was committed not just to the transformation of he was the thought is, but the transformation of people including himself so, so in his engagement with books, with reading, move up with ideas, was a very, it was a very profound guys by the comp. Im sandstone as a person also because time as a political back to con, understand all the bad things that we associate with, with, with style is brutal dictatorship of the soviet union without understanding him as an intellectual. And i wrote this book because this seemed to me that this, the source piece is library and the book see right and how we read them, how we marked them. It is the most amazing source. Its the most intimate source, the most from tying his full source, the most revealing sol, so i feel like its an expiration of stones, intellectual life is life as a reader. But its also an ex relation of installing as a political actor. He also describe this t shaped table in a, in the room where he died, as fact, with books manuscripts p. O, because his personal library was very, very extensive. I wonder if looking at him through these lines has, has changed your own opinion of him as a personality or perhaps a may. Is your understanding of hes evil makes you a little bit more new on . Yeah, absolutely. I took the reason i wrote this book actually was okay, ive written a number of books about style and not connected with story. Bye. Want to write a wide range in book about stormy. But i didnt really want to what, right i, i biography. So it does seem to be an opportunity to see other kind of intellectual pull tre, intellectual box using this particular. So what was the actual but also very, very personal in, in a very strange way. Sure. Yeah, but but, but i want to wish i went to i wrote wide ranging, but the textbook was i havent really fully comes tubs with colleagues as a person, though i see as, as a political actor. And so thats why i wrote this particular book. And yeah, it was, it was a journey of discovery as far as i was concerned. And i suppose the most important thing i discovered on that journey was that, okay, yes, you know, style name was the intellectual amount of ideas. A great read the. He was a communist, he was a marxist, right . But the thing, our discounts i didnt really understand before was the, he was a feeling intellectual, right . Emotional that from power, all these audiology and politics, right . And its not emotionality. The motional falls off. Hes audiology these politics, which enabled him to actually rule in the particularly father tutorial what he did. So its something emotionality of style and as a, as a dictator and insulation that, that what that was the crucial revelation. Somebody, they also have a point which id like to mention here because im actually in the book is that, you know, you might say, well, okay, so he was a feeling emotional intellectual. Would that be emotionality . Comfortable . And he asked that question, i think is that it coming from stallings early christian opry, before starting mostly developed monk safety was a deep christian. And i think that this is the transmission of stallings emotional religious. You havent really deals to feed into his mouth as a communist, the and socialist. Yeah, well i mean, many scholars before, you know that, that the, this a server and attitude towards march says, and then the socialism was simply, you know, another form of religion for a menu of the leaders or his time. Many bolsheviks at least now. Uh you, you mentioned that many or stalins books contain extensive markings reached to quote, to you reveal that he valued ideas as much as power. And that he was a true believer in the strength of the worth. And it reminds me of the opening verses of the bible in the beginning was the worth, which could also be translated as in the beginning was longer as the meaning making capacity. And i think it already partially answered my question, but i want to oppose it. And on the last, do you think there was something religious or newman thats about the way style is related to not just the ward but know which ignore this. Yeah. And to just the truth of, you know, the point you might be the last go. Those have noticed the connection between your stallings religious upbringing on these boxes. I think thats true, but i think the thing about the library is, is that you can actually see that in the soul says on the pages you can see solving spelling, 6 feet, savings. Yeah. Up, i suppose the other thing is to kind of on a geologically stalling definitively, did you break with piece really just about bringing. Yeah. Stalling. Didnt see. Okay. Is that the magic marxist . He believed in the intrinsic and internal truth of marxism. But that wasnt for him. A mattress size, it was a mattress. What do you consider to be thoughts so scientific of absorbs of ation. Yeah. So yeah, that does an emotional connection between just on is a question, installing this as a communist, but at the intellectual crew cab, uh, connection is much less. It is much more tenuous. Now uh, as you write in your book, like all the bolshevik leaders style and believe that the reading could help transform no just peoples ideas and consciousness, but human nature itself, he, sore writers ends as a engineers and the human soul, which is the subject you have dedicated a separate chapter in, in your book, and when somebody is so eager to transform the human nature or remain be human. So i think theres usually something that they cannot accept as this and most likely in themselves. What do you think makes style and so bent on re making their human so, and im asking a here not the you, im asking you not as a historian, but it actually is a human being because its a very intimate personal notation as a to you, as a really interesting question of a personal question. Im not going to give you a personal so old about should lead us with intellectuals, right. All of them believe the reading, engagement of ideas, all of them had a big library so strongly wasnt unique in that respect. Okay, yeah, i guess it this question about transform submission stuff. Yeah. We got up to why was the cost of what was he and the both is constantly gross, be in that direction and theyre doing that because to their ideas that you tokens, they genuinely kind of like believe that this transformation of human nature, theyre seeking, its possible of course they dont, patrice it out because thats one of the fundamental effect use of the soviet project to solve it socially. The site you get to actually create that utopia that theyre striving for. Now, personally, i can understand that because i will see you type in an idea as myself, as a young man. So i understand that strong thing. And i also understand, you know, the personal emotional figure of the trans, across something which you cant quite get there. And you, you understand, you know, the difficulties you have to so what doubts the skepticism about it. So i have, so theres a little personal insight into this book as well. That goes to the chemist between the install is that still on remind to not do this, you remain the token. He was the rather prospect for this ideal. His power of protective steam from valley seemed to some extent, and im also an avid student of psychology. And then psychology, idealization mental ization of rationalization in a tendency to make things abstract. They are considered to be a typical psychological defense is. When do you dont want to connect with the, you know, of human nature in yourself when it seems to, you saw, you know, imperfect or disdainful that you would rather think about something, you know, shiny down the down the line and then address it in yourself. Yeah, i kind of agree with that, but lets dont forget the point im making the about the emotional basis of storage police. So these are geology and politics, lets know sort and also um lets do it on the site. The importance of kind of the rational for that this has things so it easy you believe this ideas and the rest of grandparent. Beautiful browsers belief. No, im saying hes right, but i dont you know, it or rushing directionality or its boxes. And so, you know, it is like, its a combination of this combination of character, personality and emotionality. Combination of very typical steps, human psychological tribes. This of this look at the, are a function of these rationalist audiology and politics as well. Can i ask you something because you are, you mentioned in your book that you see him as what we would now call emotional intelligence. You dont believe that hes feelings or, you know, sensing abilities are split off from, hes called him def capacity. And i wonder if youve been able to track not only hes emotional reading of others, but hes own authentic feelings or maybe even suffering in those. Uh, you know, uh, markings on the sides of the books. I tried to do that as best i county in the book, but even in a sense, its impossible for me to actually summarize the actually it was the davis inklings in yourself when you felt okay. I think this is a style in writing as a human being rather than as a great leader. He imagines himself to be and terms of these library. Yeah, thats the whole point of it. Yeah, the whole point Stories Library has his private reading. Yes, hes personal. Well yes it is. He wouldnt be read sometime later. Yeah. Well i think thats probably true. Might be towards the end of his life. Yes. Yeah. He must have been aware that he will become the object of the attention of people like video. Rather research is just like many id be coming in his ear. So i thought no, no but, but no to the actual quality of these markings. Its very spontaneous. Its very, its very, very, very, very well. Thank you. Thats absolutely correct. There is an element of performance here, but its a very, very simple and adam and i have a context with a confidential context with style in you speak your right to your editor. Yeah. Then it is much, much more of a performance foot 4 foot for the item. Obviously hes putting on the chart. Thats not the case when we talking about his personal life rent thats, thats the interest. Thats the power of the soul. Well, i tried to do if i try to, you know, dont tell you this to show showed read how this works for now we have to take a very short break. We will be back to discussing it in a short time. Thank you very much. The russian states never as tight as im sort of the most sense community best. Nothing was all sense and up the, the assistance of the keys on these 25. 00 must be the one else holes. Question about this, even though we will van in the European Union the kremlin media mission, the state on russia to day and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services to the question, did you say from stephen twist, which is the, [000 00 00;00] the director with the parts van geoffrey roberts, americas professor of history of the university college. Of course, im also felons, library and dictator and his books. Professor roberts, in your book, you suggested selling div north, re quote from the reading the works of his arch avenue as likely, entrusts keisha was also very much interested in the history of desires times which soviet propaganda, the time official soviet propaganda fully dismissed. And in order to engage with that kind of material, you consider a wrong or adversarial one needs to have a degree of flexibility versus attila to antola runs, which is not how styling is remember. What do you think compelled him to engage with the other . Do you think it was primarily his own personal drive or perhaps the commands of the office . Im not sure the id, id used to live tolerance in relation to style it, but certainly flexibility. Okay. The tell its the opposite of us a bit so invested to that the yeah. In the context of him being an adult, much more. Ste. Yeah. Yeah. So it, it wasnt a big surprise to me when i discovered the stone as an intellectual retina. Yeah. He was a learning intellectual. Thats not such a, not such a big, big, a big surprise to what this surprised me was how much engaged with his political opponents and how much he, he learned from is a political, political opponents. Yeah. Okay. So, and he was a marxist and he believed in boxes and a lot of his reading was mostly stuff. So obviously stuff, comedy stuff. Right. But. But he was prepared to read anything of that and then he won. Right. And he was prepared to learn from tell you about the estimate of, im not and im the guy still using the book is, is the study is trust, the trust time was much more in the image of trotsky elite as an intellectual. Yep. For quite a long time, let me quote with what the trust key wrote about style. And he describes him as gifted the risk, practicality, a strong well and persistence in carrying out his aims, but also devoid of creative imagination, restricted in his learning methods and political horizons. And stubbornly empirical in his mind and trust. He also wrote that style and always seemed to it to humans based as a man who was destined to play 2nd or 3rd fiddle of him. Playing 1st was not due to style until his talents, but rather be backsliding of the system. I wonder if you detected any sort of intellectual inferiority on the part of style and dont you think he was trying to compensate for something that he saw in trotsky but lacked in himself . No, no, i dont see that so solid. It was probably confident as an intellectual. He was his own mind. Hes on the box. Its just, you know, hes a totally me as a person, as a political outcomes. Not georgie came from leaving himself as an end to an intellectual here he couldnt call talk to anyone. I mean, no need to present himself as being the names of people who got the best student of land. But he didnt you, steve was the father of lennox, but, but he wasnt the prison of lending, unavailable changes his personality. Acosta, i think clearly demonstrates that then there was the bed. So yeah, but, but trust is denigration of stallings intellectual. Very, very influential feeling the select shaped perceptions are starting from many, many, many decays now. Yup. Especially perhaps in the west, 5th across. Absolutely. But, but that, that perceptions change even in the less than probably a function of the fact we thought the collapse this over here in the open up the rush, all cause historians and i was a much, much more materials. But you know, to work with. And this is your paint is a completely different picture, not just a stalling, but how sort of system from the one you get get from chelsea. And one of the discoveries of the, the post soviet period in the all cars has the, the extent to which talk was made to the actual, unintended guy, simple ideas. And mike book is, is part of that, that body of work. But of course, i have a particular in the sustain focus on strong st. The actual 15 relation to his life as a reader and his and his personal library. As before, now its demons access to for him. Books was limited, not only because of the logistics, but also because he didnt know any other language other than russian in georgia. And yes, you point out that style him had the high regard and diligence interest for his political contemporaries, like Winston Churchill or uh, Franklin Delano roosevelt. Do you think that interest was reciprocated. J thing they, they saw a nickel in him as he saw in them. Oh boy, absolutely. I mean one of my other specialities is that you as you are you must know was the style is will lead to stalling during the 2nd world war. Im particularly the relationship between style in a churchill and originally. Yeah. And this does no, to the Great Respect that the rules of the contractual has this dont include respect stallings knowledge, you know, no, the 2 boats and the profundity of the oh, obviously thinking what i found fascinating is that style in started the american constitution. And i think it was almost a known both in russian and the west was that he was a keeper sided over and was very much engaged in the works of the of the soviet Constitutional Commission that was tasked with drafting the soviet constitution of 1936 thats at least in writing, attempted to give uh or a to encourage more active grass roots. Political participation in the constitution was passed barely a year before the great terrors which some millions of people to the depths or to the, to the glove. And one thing that i, as a russian cannot understand, is this interesting proceed between putting so much time and effort it into starting have various societies for government. Because i think that was his key interest in old. But he is a reading for see if he has verging so quickly so ruthlessly to the tyranny of the iron hand. How do you understand that, you know, the patients with books and toto in patients with the imperfections of, of life and governing stories, overwriting the perotti list, the defense socialism defends the revolution finally signed them of the sensitive wherever he could to contribute to socialism. And that he needs for pattern guides and all kinds of projects, activities, which he saw us to over the coals, including your link, you know, this new constitution. That ones 36 constitutional kinds kinds of other things. But in the end, you know, he was prepared to do whatever was necessary to the play wherever funding the revolution at the, at the costs to other huge cost to his society and his people. Absolutely, because yeah, apps, because he was a utopia. Yeah. He believes this action was necessary, believe he said that money funds, this actually is forced upon us by enemies. Right . If we dont do this out and it is all going to crush us dot, that is the less than history. Its dawn as a read it. Okay, its times a month this month is elizabeth thing, paste favorite topic was history and the, and the less than sophistry. Yeah, you too, you mentioned the constitution. I was very surprised about stallings interest in constitutional loan. And if you mind, if you indicated its an interest, it seems to come when the discussing the new saw the constitution. He thought hes a, hes on research, theres not really very important point. Strong, always doctors on research, always talk his own reading professor representing the display that i see here. Or if this perceive is that people so much f for the interest in researching those patterns, you know, a constitutional, uh, governing, etc. But he doesnt have the strength of the capacity, the patients to put it into practice. Because if you want to defend the revolution, you can defend it by your actions, you know, putting those ideas into practice and materialize and realizing them. But its almost like you persist them, and them she drops and reverts to the old methods that hes defending against. Yeah. Well i think he possesses them as far as he can. But as i said, you know, hes prepared to do whats necessary. But the kind of argument youve made, its kind of argument many people invite it in relation to style in which is the note the disjunction between his theory and his practice time, you know, you know, in this the limitations the limitations are okay of him. So as to how does that mean to actual vice city of essentially i to a very serious read the song. Sometimes it can be quite profound and certainly that very effective. But in the end, no piece of limits. Its good for the human being or the geology policy. So deeply full right is political practice is usually kind of problematic re the set because of the date, the impact of these. So if hes your disorder rule on safari, i dont on, on, im, im, im really, its a paper folks. Im not trying to cover anything of the month of yet for any points on the status. Lets go to a force, heres any heights i take tight and sees books and for the whole book, i mean, gauging with the questions your raising about strong is big to, to lower real. Im trying to avoid some explanation. Some of the come on, so to, to, you know, why this kind of look, actually quite sensitive feeling intellectual is in many ways controlled as bad stuff as well. Now we talked before about this cause a religious attitude. This started and had towards the books and knowledge of the nurses. And i wanted to what a center thing, the phenomena of style and was specific to russia is collective sold. Because if we look at the russian history of russian literature, the nonsense or the beginning of the 20th century, with all these painful soul searching, i wonder if the emergence of the leaders likes telling the whole landing was also an alternate. That was inevitable. Yeah. What as far as the russia is concerned, started the closest very kind of look skeptical about all this stuff about, you know, the russian. So and the essential or is it very, in some sense, a very typical representative of anything you know, its own way just the way out of the dime doing things by yourself or before and yeah, i mean very stubborn. Yeah, i feel good. I dont expect somebody to points to, i mean, i dont think strongly but so you can self that way. I dont think he would accept your analysis and i dont think i do either. You know, i think, i dont think you need to result to those kinds of explanations in, you know, which ones you know. I think its much more straightforward, but to actually see stein for what he was because we saw him today. So as a communist, as im office, as a political act, uh, products, a truck of a few society and thats the side as long history of certain print elections and patterns. But he would know that he was fundamentally a product tobys on. So hes going to die. That of hes on self education, right, to my office, Political Police and commitments. Marxism Company Makes much more sense to locate stone cans that context. I think anyway, down it doesnt, you know, the context of the russian tradition but, but maybe maybe that somebody speak to somebody speaking from, from my experience. So as we mentioned earlier in the angel as a young man, i was very large stock except i was a past with robin the live by thats but very like very locked in the menu. I. So political activities, some, some im speaking from my experience right up, but maybe from a russian perspective, spelling kind of a very different. I dont want to get too close to contemporary politics, but i do think that they sort of alternate that no 6 tendency coupled with a sense of the rushes to this thing. Destiny is very inherent to the russian that issue. And if you look at why them and putting his also out today, that he also has a sense of a special way for, for russia. Nope. Exceptional, but special way for russia and i think he is, or hes very open about it. He reads history, books, northwell, azure, but for governing in size, you know, think about that. There are lots of very interesting um, comparisons to be between installing the printer. I, i dont think about that see, putting as intellectual. I have to say in the same step. Okay. Put anything guys avoid this by . Dont think the, i dont get the impression anyway. There was central his to his consciousness to is, is like being that i would stalling. Yeah. So, so, yeah. So, so pitney certainly in case of ideas with reading, with literature course of history. Yeah, i mean, just posting is this for magical about history . Installing was actually, you know, the, the, the 2 main comparisons are up to boy 3 to my while im thinking about the styling of improved seems to successfully, there was patrick, its a 2nd lead to the both the voted. Multinational sir. And thats the break come to that, the, our seat between the soviet union, the saw and the Russian Federation that both of forensically Multinational Multi ethnic studies, but stalling uprooted committee to defending that multi that multinational character of all of their respect. Respect is respect, is that i have one last question and we only have a few seconds. Pretty good. So answer it, but i wonder if the sums of autonomy is also one of the main underlying reasons for the current confrontation between russia and the west. This argument over low risk over of the wars with capital w, the ride to the worth and the right to come up with your own thinking in your own way forward for your country. I, i guess i would tend to agree with you in a way, you know, in the west you have to kind of like all the geological stuff that always breaks to my mind. The arches left to prefer both the soviet period to solve. So if it does all the system right, and you know, a good deal at d deal at the logical stuff of fanaticism, dogmatism, or style in that as, as, as, as, as a marxist, a company. So i think that, yeah, thats a very interesting point that you might have to live in there and thank you very much for your time and thank your congratulations on this very intriguing and very insightful book will for the super true, very intriguing and insightful laugh. Pleasure and hope hopefully it was also your pleasure. Thank you for watching and hope to hear again and was a part the the the, the sum hezbollah report that need raises a red flag signifying vengeance. I did the right. He ministry bays across the board, a strikes intensified between 11 and you as well. And also ahead. The disturbing images from a gas or hospital is actually just, its a breaking point to overrun with casualties from the get a standing bottle. Officials report that idea of strikes thats killed over 700. 00 bodies to me and told him, but one pines claims the decks on the united states, which is said supplies to weapons used to kill them. This is sham. Seed years old