You on a personal basis to partake in conflict that others described as the or barrick . Well, you know, the, the newsletter we are always described as doing illegal activities. It doesnt matter if we do anything. Union both uh was, were sense defense was and we had to respond to savannah tech. So federal was from the northern borders. This from devon on monday with that are not the only tool was because i book civic though. So im barely found in baton a position which was a 3rd one. So level known as being the 4 years instability players and thats a continuously, it was the arresting, the northern population will be sent in from time to time we have, we have to, we have and we had to react. Its not only about what others say, i think its also about the so called international because the Un General Assembly can down to israels actions or the General Assembly may or does. The General Assembly does not specify the International Law of the International Law is very well specified. The inside is always been conducting only some of the positions within the concern itself in some of the constraints of International Law, but the extra territorial liam. No, i understand, no, i, i would argue with that because i, i, ive decided the site that i practice it in person via a search for this issue for many years and the, and the together with the International Committee with as close in as in the office in the event and the, and the i have to stay with that is a, is one of the most responsible states taking care of the open International Law and is a very, very, and, and careful in trying to present to citizen versus non info. Civil mister support, im sure you would agree with me that every, its faith existing on this planet with the claim, the same, including the americans, including the russians, including the chinese. So i wanna ask you specifically about israel, how do you think it balances the constraints . Uh, you know, imposed by International Law versus uh the progress of its own security, which sometimes it run counter to. I officially the to challenge your 1st statement that the f is. Every country would say the same is not the method of saying its made or affects on the wrong. Because i have seen how, for example, the americans has behaved in new york. Hows the russians have behaved in other places the, in the, in the word like the like what i like to see area and i can see uh like in the like in, on the, in the eightys in, you know, if the dentist on and the associates that okay, sorry i, i regular life is and the, and the anyway in of the conflicts all st. George was the yes, the us interests area. And the, and ive seen in the last, i smoke on the russian because is a, is practically a writing the national with its a very, very careful contact in the fighting in the complex areas in the, in the high populace is very popular areas. Well, uh, mr. Simone, if you can allow me also a little bit of a soft relate revelation. I have many, our friends who are here, critical it as you can imagine of israels actions. And one of my friends told me that its easier for me in the russian to get a visa to israel then for him, even though his family lived there for generation. So i think we can at least agree that israels actions have also been criticized in human rights. Right. The only reason, but also access to certain is our last the treatment of the civilians on the ground. The freedom is allowed to them. I dont want to do something from us for example, which is the father standing on the organization. The strategy of come us is to fire me science towards the civilian population is that i kinda got schools, whatever from civilian population as a product issue. So they use their own civilian population, its not the secret of others and about it the for many die. For example, theres been fighting themselves from the vicinity of over the u. N. The refugee a policy in order for G Organization from the vicinity of old off form scores. And why do they do that . Just for one reason to protect themselves because they know that is, and were not fire back to a place where the school or there is a, you know, a highly, highly chest is that known, involved to be pump. So even if its around these fighting and its all to destroyer and lets say how much the headquarters we normally warn the people inside this headquarters, thats where theyre going to bump. And we want them either. We listed either we phone calls that are evidence of such phone calls. And if the those store does not work, they, we also use some enough to charge us that does not only make sounds to make sure that the population in the house is evacuated before we destroyed. So i think uh this, uh, um, lets say this claims about these and i know that of course i know them, they exist, but completely unjustified. Now, as im sure you know, um russia has been very careful long before the current conflict. The new credit has been very careful about this. Its quickest as most in israel and i think also very understanding of israels security sensibilities. Understanding that the realities on the ground may differ from some abstract values and the same time in montana, the working relationship with the palestinians when the radians with other actors in the region. How do you understand most coast stands . These every, your country, especially on security matter. Yes. First of all, i think that the russia has a very important throw because they have very strong ties. We visited and in fact, uh when the soviet, in the beginning of the soviet, the immigration policeman. And they took that option. In addition, please, well, it has contributed very much to these then economy info. Is there a scientific good . Because the dictation brushing slow and the same with the dom, enjoy to solve the very much appreciate. I dont know what happens with that. I shouldnt be patient, but theyre very much appreciate the soviet education, scientific and there isnt any so that it has been if you central think to hear that. Thank you. Yes, and the so this is the side of his bed and also we are, were actually think possibly cost. It has a very good relations with our enemies, with the enemies in the fall as soon as the others can the people, im sorry. Oh no, they are not the policy of people. I dont know the enemies, but that organization like im us like uh, just let me jot this our enemies or the syrians without writing these and still it out. Im name is they declared they are on the inside of our entries. So they have good relations with these with these the countries. And its very important to have these kind of relations with a, an entity that can make some terms with those countries. Because thats very important, it actually is also as you know, involved in city and very much and we are active in syria, is that hes very active in trying to avoid it on to get the photos in, in, in syria. And the is really, is affecting this iranian, and also seriana of when they jeopardize very much our security and infrastructure in syria. The end, the end, the, we are going to be nice thing. Those that text me is the options. What do you think made it possible because im sure you understand the context and the reason this interior is taking place. We have a war in the neighboring country with a you know, well what we used to refer to as a brother, really nation before. And you have to what youre telling me is that the russians are actually when it comes to the battlefields. Russians can operate with the degree all far, you know, reasonableness, why do you think thats kind of cooperation that is possible in syria between these rallies and the rainy. And so even the americans that there is no cooperation is the thing that like into linking the there is a just to make sure that that was clearly understood. There is cooperation, operation of cooperation, back dakota, petition corporations was the russia will, i is my it is it, i can give them absolutely. But all sides. Indeed, in this cooperation, understanding that old practical interest, they continued being uh, maybe avenues at some point or competitors at another, but they pursue it with this with certain norms. Why was it possible in syria and why do you think it wasnt possible . Lets say when it comes to ukraines when i was i would talk about to create and 2nd, i just want to to specify my point regarding celia or the sicilian audience that they are ex steve very harshly against these that i, they, they authorize as a huge the company and because they have a strategy of, lets say they want to gain as you money. They need least so is a, is for them that are safe on. And the big one is america, and russia is balancing it out. I mean, i, i dont know if russia is policy goes, i know that the, to your on and is very heavy involved inside is that i with out of these ladies with the policy and then a 10 organization helping them and promoting them and funding them in doing federal ethics and hes like this, is that the as a, im sure the, it is really intelligence the ethics in, you know, seriously a couple of the welto says, you know, i settled this thing to kill innocent people with no discrimination. That is, that is not never has done thats, i think its fair to admit that you know, each country it engages itself and cover the operations and, and thats besides the pollution of our. Okay, the absolutely absolutely quote with the production as the, as we say in because the websites are things that so youll, youll, theres as written in folding price. That is where it was active in these activity in your, on. But its not doing their own activity in your own is no telling me, is civilians in your on indiscriminately . Why is it on is doing thats very heavily and isnt it . What can i repeat . My original question is, why do you think that kind of operational rivalry versus cooperation that was possible in syria where russia is functioning as a, as a go between at least lets say, between israel and its enemies. Why do you think that model wasnt possible in ukraine . Why does it have and why does ukraine have to be, you know, somebody else has some somebodys trophy or rather than being at the former government . I think ive seen that before. That then. Yeah. Well, maybe you had, we had a short time of one year under government, which the former Prime Minister saw that you would be able to get some terms thing. But i showed you claim in the beginning it was the bits in my view, pathetic with the i, i, you know, this is a battle between huge entities is that is a small country, you know, we are, we, we, we barely have energy to take care of the problems, but the but to i think that to 1st of all i want to tell you personally that the water between the i i so its coming. I understood it was coming. And you know one has to understand the sense of self defense. This tasha head oh oh, in the go to the activity a few grand and maybe that activity is not natal in the eastern side of the interest of here for a moment because this is a heres an important question and we have to take a short break but we will expand it just after stitching the se 90 age, the punch, and we kind of became a us colony, but still retain its own cultural identity. Speak in favor of independence. We be thrown into prison today, close to help its population, the grow, the residence of was a retail, the Insane Congress thinks on the us president ial elections. Like, okay, were gonna make you american citizens, which you didnt ask for, even if we were offered citizenship and we would prefer one say, gonna using these 2 entities. He chose the flights that hes homelands, independence. We felt that we could generate more of a spirit of resistance rather than submissive except a reality that we felt was like, shockingly fear, my sorry that i decided to fight for my country. No, im not good. I have done things differently. Yes, absolutely. Do i now think that violence is not the means to achieve anything . Absolutely, the welcome back to all the parts. With gabby bonus, Senior Research here at the Jerusalem Institute for strategy and security assistant building before i interrupted you, you started talking about self defense and self defense is indeed something that israel coins it on many occasions and something thats pressure also involves to justify its military operation in, in the ukraine. Do you think its a legitimate, the side of the ground as part of the, when the decree you know that the, to a lot in another country, your allowed to, to be x on says good sense. What if you want, if you are affect your self defense . I, i mentioned that russia, i did not say that the through x as is self defense. I said that it was a i a, the, the, on my understanding what this to wash out is texting under the, the sense of self defense. Imagine, but the Russian Troops are, are deployed on the border between mexico and the United States. What the, what was the United States doing this sonata . Im shows that there were lots of states were not thought at such and ask, here is a conflicts color because this tension between russia and nathan russian, the west has been, had been boiling for many years prior to 2022. It wasnt a proxy for him. Cyber attacks, a, you know, military drills, chemical lapse. What have you, diplomatic stripe, but it wasnt kinetic. What do you think allowed for these . Uh, sort of under the carpet conflict to become full. We expressed more on the battlefield. First the point was that an initiative of the government, the federal government, the russian government has stopped the understand the server. Yes, i understand that. Busy first of all, before the, the, all state, if you begin, actually the kinetic austerity began. There was some, some of the when, you know, ill still, if these in other means you know, this now with the, the, for mission at all. Um, what we call information. And compare and so the influence on people that influence the only thing for wars i here for wars has been active very much. And i dont know if its a complement or not, but the size, very, very well known as list in, in the my immediate, but it was such as well known for its ability to conduct the, these kinds of pleasures with yes, absolutely. This what i have my do, i know that russia is active all over the world in europe. Even now, what do you actually mean by that . Because ive been working with these general, which has been described as a propaganda bullhorn. Ive been working here for the years, but i tried to do all list analysis with a saw the 3 actually live on the same planet that if its a, you know, comes up in the Nuclear Mushroom and nobody real bad. The 1st of all, the dresser is not the only one thats going back to implement. So pollution every, every state the responsible states will use the different influence operation, which is a, you know, on a cell centric uh, propagation of use um seems to wars once it went on as long as they own it from us. Of course it is not honest. A few of us your views is okay. But the prophet us and site to effect how people, for example, in germany or in poland or into both, takes the think and act and using what we call influence stores or fake news or whatever, whatever do you want to use to, to convince them also to in the pull her eyes, the, the scores until make good to call it is february the i dont see a rush i using to be honest with you. I dont see rushing using too much very close. I mean like we have the trunk 100. 00 to ship this i. I dont know what this tools anymore. I dont to because the pressure, i dont know whats truth anymore. Only god knows what is true. We are now facing. You know, when i read something, i dont know i, i believe nothing with i mean or whatever. Only my mind and sometimes my mind is, is money to do it is by others. And i dont know that it has been manipulated. Throw seasonal effect or any more you dont know what these through as well, so everybodys using the best way to get their goals will be it through beef non true. Nobody knows. Now the americans like to say that a perception is reality, and this is actually one of the ways they used to post world view onto the rest of the world. And i think one of the reasons why the russians launched a military operation in ukraine is to prove that the reality is reality. And if your security interest off threatened, you have to respond not just by words, but by actions disney rusher will succeed in that. I researched it. First operation during the transaction was the 1st year. And so trying to understand what the, what, whats going on that youre cutting. So i dont selective very much into, so you know, feed everybodys activity. And so, and this is a part of the war. Now its become the bulk of war. You, you dont use only genetics use also can you know when the war through influence operation only can you when a conflicts through influence authoration, sorry you have so in my view to the, you know, to the for see and future without shifting bullets and without getting your money on your books, there is no way to win anymore. Now i drew some parallels between these riley pl listing and conflict, and the were in the ukraine. And i think one major difference is that whenever these rarely posting in strive goes kinetics, theyre always efforts to mediate or at least their calls for cease fire. But in the case of your brain, we havent seen any meaningful efforts. You mentioned the statements by former israeli government, there have been some a turing sonata capitals, but nobody gave it a real hard effort. Why not . Why not . Yeah. Well, i, i think that the you, russia and ukraine did not receive a claim you scanned is not alone because ukraine is somehow authorized that slash money to later, bye bye. And american solved by western countries. And the end, the, the, the, the, the months of fuel could i in or is that in ski out and, and not acceptable by the, by our shop. They the, it does not match, you know, they want to go to the board the so from 9091 or something they dont and it does not much. So as long as and they stay on those 2 um bullet points. It went up to and it doesnt, but that if you bring the funny out to the table to bring someone else to the table trying to and get terms to between the size. It has to be, you know, ive read recently. And then the last to days that there is, that is the election in european say population so far for us to, to continue supporting ukraine. And that is the direction in american support to continue to support that you create and just see what happens with the logic now in, in the corporate us, in the, in america. And maybe, maybe they, you know, the russians is a huge as the part of us, i dont mess with the russians. And, you know, maybe, uh, but also sort of waiting. They have enough energy to wait until the, you can use what to say. Okay. I bundle, we stopped. This was extra level. So i think a very interesting parallel because for many years the United States, despite claiming neutrality, has been squarely on israel side. But more recently, the american support for israel hasnt been voted, but it has become less prominent. Maybe less for right before friday. Do you think this thing could happen to ukraine . Because i know youve been the very strong advocate of self sufficiency when it comes to israel. On defensive matters, dissing your credit has any 1st alarm system i want to fiddle for regarding isnt it . Im, im, im the advocates for many is that isnt i should not rely on anyone for it. So defense is an actual defend itself by itself. We, we dont need all those coming into that without the americans to force financially for the military in our independence war. Okay. In 48, and we were 600000 people against a huge a minute. The, the tech on the side for from old out of states trying to conquer the joyce, the smoke to a settlement. Thats what the things that i say, im sure we can do it because we have a behind us 3000 years of history and weve managed and we want to manage. And the, i dont know theyre about to create a new content is relying, you know, im just so that the numbers, the 45000000000 dollars of america the supports from the us through the last couple of years. And this is not list amounts of money. So i dont think that your client is going to abandon is a it so what they perceive as the eliza on, you know, and, and the, and i hope that the nato is not pushing too much to enter the printer into an h o. D, which will escalate the situation completely into a position. I think whoever i will not throw out even the use of nuclear, you know, its, its, its very sensitive. Distortion is very sensitive. And i, i really, we, i dont people of piece, you know, l one piece. And i hope that will be found that before the solution for the cafeteria and russian, you, well, uh, the difficulty with finding the peaceful solution is that its not just about the conflict of interest. Theyve conflicted in russia and ukraine. Its also about, you know, brother architecture in europe and i see the as the sort of look at the, the, the, and the we had now discussions about the, the, the issue that america has been with an isaac, its donna and making it as a military monetizing means that i was in the economy and the, and, and this creates a counseling revolution, china, russia, india, and other really, you know, but i was in south america, the south africa, and sorry to also south america at 12 to create an independent financial and framework not to rely on the dollar enough to rely on. And this i think, is going to be their reactions for you. And in the end a, maybe a, its close, although thats what im not the you know, and that is only focusing on the American Economy because it said we need some kind of more redundancy in this. Well, are self sufficiency or equality. It says it isnt. And we have learnt also for on this, well, you know, the, the, the, the Health System of fuel clinton has been destroyed by the russians practice. And the, and the, and the, you know, this is so not to get go. So it can happen easily by all readings, and we have to find ways for to secure our Health System for attempt to go and listen, learn to secure actual supply. Allison done and to make sure that is rarely self sufficient, was it as much as it can . Can i ask you one last question because israel also has to think about winning the so called hearts and minds of the people. On the other side, do you think theres anything that russia can authentically offered to ukraine to increase the chances of a settling on a National Basis and possibly keeping the big american proxy a, b is a i would presume to nothing at all. It would be presumptuous to me to, to try to advise that are simple im, im asking about your opinion. Yeah. My opinion, but i have to, you know, when i have to intervene and it has to be based on something with what i dont feel that my bases is sort of enough about the conflicts. Im, as i told you with my, my main, my main concern about is about conflicts and how to manage. For example, i know that it will be very difficult for is that the, when the house and minds of the items, okay. The coffee is very, very deep and the which is not very deep in the, in your crime between, you know, most of you could, i have some options. Yeah. You know, well, thats a very, yeah, you know, the wrong with the numbers or manuals incidence options. Well, they dont consider themselves russians any more. Absolutely. Supposedly that they would actually look historically. I mean many, the one on caesar, oakley, i ment. Okay, this is the last, as i would exaggerate 100 years. And while we are with the on up. So we have a story, so its a, you know, so out of conflict is deeper, is i understand that its easier to getting tennessee they to kind of go so far when that these virus still getting things without a well i hope you, the honest with the policy number, because without ups and just seeing that then, you know, is the, is wing medical. So is the, with the around the corner of the agreements and with the, the saudi or maybe an hour. Hopefully, we will have to be solved the area and try to isolate the policy and an issue with the out of issues, which is very important for us as well as how the both of this conflicts us settled in our lifetime lifetimes. Assisted by the f one to make you less that the, i dont you have case mike, i have kids. I told them, look, youre heavy enough or so youre going to have, you know, well, uh, im not the, im really uh, well, uh, i dont know if its a notes domestic or a pessimistic nose, but we have to live with there. Thank you very much for being with us. Thank you for watching hope this. Here again, was the part the, the theres no end in sight over how youre going to continue to destroy the earth. Is the case of the mess and as of the people i tried to go to the gym, but im certainly not ready to fight russia. This is also of soon, this is the 3rd world will receive re washing press for so the funder line likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deal. So what should i need to be living on that you have very quick propaganda. You know, a price here in your i think we dont know the aftermath any time that youre not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. Some more questions ask a better, the answer is, will be the, the is there any poll says inside the rough ive checked points of the egyptian border blocking the only routes for jobs, the locals to leave the f o said to the attacks on israel will not go unpunished, fail Mazda Service will have nowhere to fleeing the street. We will get to them wherever they are. The disturbing images from garza where the Palestinian Red Crescent says the Health Care System has collapsed up to is really insights on medical facilities. We stand with israel, we stand with theres of us president budget strong support to israel like