And careful in trying to prevent. So civilian versus non info, civil mr. Simpler and im sure you would agree with me that every, its faith existing on this planet with claim the same, including the americans, including the russians, including the chinese. So i wanna ask you specifically about israel, how do you think it balances the constraints . Uh you know, imposed by International Law versus uh the property. So its own secures to reach sometimes it run counter to i personally to, to challenge your 1st statement that the f is. Every country would say the same is not the method of saying its made or affects on the wrong. Because i have seen how, for example, the american says behaved in new york. Hows the russians have behaved in other places in the, in the word like, like what i learned from the city out. I can see uh like in the like in, on the, in the eightys in, you know, if the dentist on and the associates that okay so, so they have, so i, i, regular life is and the, and the anyway in all the conflicts, all st. George was the show, yes, the us interests area and the, and ive seen in the last i smoke on the russian because is a, is practically a writing the for national with. Its a very, very careful contact in the fighting in the complex areas in the, in the high populace is very popular areas. Well, uh, mr. Simone, if you can allow me also a little bit of a soft relate revelation. I have many, our friends who are here critical as you can imagine of israels actions. And one of my friends told me that its easier for me in the russian to get a visa to israel then for him, even though his family lived there for generation. So i think we can at least agree that israels actions have also been criticized in human rights. Right. The only reason, but also access to certain is our last the treatment of the civilians on the ground. The freedom is allowed to them. I dont want to do something from us, for example, which is the father standing on the organization. The strategy from us is to fire me, science towards civilian population is right, kindergarten schools, whatever thats from civilian population as a product issue. So you, they use their own civilian population. Its not the secret of everything about it for many times. For example, theres been fighting themselves from the vicinity of over the u. N. N refugee a policy in order to G Organization from the embassy of overall form scores. And why do they do that . Just for one reason to protect themselves because they know that is, and were not fire back to a place where the school or there is a, you know, a of the highly, highly choices that known in volts would be pumped. So even if its around these fighting it to, to destroyer um, lets say how much the headquarters we normally warn the people inside the task was us. And thats where theyre going to bump. And we want them either. We listed either we phone calls that are evidence of such phone calls. And if the those to the work they, we also use some enough to charge us that does not only make sounds to make sure that the population in the house is evacuated before we destroyed. So i think uh this, uh, um, lets say this claims about these and i know they close. I know them, they exist, but completely unjustified. Now, as im sure you know, um russia has been very careful long before the current conflict. The new credit has been very careful about this. Its quickest as most in israel and i think also very understanding of israels security sensibilities. Understanding that the realities on the ground may differ from some abstract values and the same time a month and the working relationship with the palestinians when they are radians with other actors in the region. How do you understand most coast stands these every year countries, especially on security matter. Yes. First of all, i think that pressure has a very important throw because they have very strong ties. We visited and in fact uh when the soviet, in the beginning, the soviet, the immigration policeman and they found that austin immigration pleaseland has contributed very much to these then economy info. Is there a scientific good . Because the dictation brushing slow and the same with the dom, enjoy to solve the very much appreciate. I dont know what happens with the russian invitation, but theyre very much appreciate the soviet education scientific a division. And hes that has been if hes interesting to hear that, thank you. Yes and the so this is the side of his bed. And also we are, were actually is important because it has a very good relations with our enemies, with the enemies. The 1st thing is the understand people, im sorry, oh no, they are not the policy of people. I dont know if the enemies but the organization like im us like uh, just let me jot this out. Our enemies or the syrians without writing these and steal it. Out on the image they because they are on the inside of our entries. So they have good relations with these with these the countries. And its very important to have this kind of relations with a, an entity that can make some terms with those come through because its very important. And that actually is also, as you know, involved in syria and very much and we are active and syria is that is very active in trying to avoid it on to get the photos in, in, in syria. And the is really, is affecting this iranian, and also syria on uh of when they get to the site is very much our security and infrastructure in syria. The end, the end, the, we are going to be nice thing. Those that text me is the options. What do you think made it possible because im sure you understand the context and the reason this interiors taking place, we have a war in the neighboring country with, you know, well what we used to refer to as a brotherly nation before. And you have to, what youre telling me is that the russians are actually when it comes to the battlefields. Russians can operate with the degree all far, you know, reasonableness, why do you think thats the kind of cooperation that is possible in syria between these rallies and the rainy. And so even the american said, there is no competition for the is the changing with, like into lincoln the there is a just to make sure that that was clearly understood. There is Corporation Operation of cooperation back to cuddle petition corporations was the russia. Well, i is my it is it that can get on. Absolutely. But all sides induced and this cooperation, understanding that old practical interest, a continued being uh, maybe avenues at some point or competitors at another, but they pursue it with this with certain norms. Why was it possible in syria and why do you think it wasnt possible . Lets say when it comes to ukraine, when i was i would talk about to create and 2nd, i just want to to specify my point regarding celia or the, the cecilia audience that they are ex steve very harshly against these that i, they, they outside of a huge federal company and because they have a strategy of, lets say they want to gain as you money released. So is a, is for them they need a safe on. And the big one is america, and russia is balancing it out. I mean, i, i dont know if russia is policy goes, i know that the, to the end is very heavy. Involved inside is that i with out of these ladies with the policy and then a 10 organization helping them and promoting them and funding them in and doing federal effects. And hes like this. Is that the, as im sure the is really intelligent, is the texting you know, seriously. A company in the world has to, you know, settle, just trying to kill innocent people with no discrimination. That is, that is not never has done thats. I think its fair to admit that you know, each country it engages itself and cover the operations and thats besides the pollution of our. Okay, the absolutely absolutely cool the production as the, as we say in, because the websites are things that so, you know, theres as written in folder in price. That is, there was activity in these activity in your, on. But its not doing their own activity and youre on is no telling me, is civilians in your on indiscriminately . Why is it on is doing thats very heavily in use that i what can i repeat . My original question is, why do you think that kind of operational rivalry versus cooperation that was possible in syria where russia is functioning as a, as a go between at least lets say, between israel and its enemies. Why do you think that model wasnt possible in ukraine . Why does it have and why does ukraine have to be, you know, somebody else has some somebodys trophy or rather than being at the former government . I think ive seen that before. That then. Yeah. Well, maybe you had, we had the show time, a funny or government, which the former Prime Minister of the thoughts that you would be able to get some terms thing. Russia and ukraine in the beginning. It was a bits in my view, pathetic with the i i you know, this is a battle between huge entities is that is a small country, you know, we are, we, we, we barely have energy to take care of the problems. But the, but to i think that to, 1st of all, i want to tell you personally that the water between the i, i so its coming, i understood it was coming. And if you no one has to understand the sense of self defense the semester ahead. Oh oh, in regard to the activity of your credit and mainly that activity is not natal in the is some side of the interest of here for a moment because this is a heres an important question and we have to take a short break, but we will expanding it just after searching the the the of the welcome back to rows of parts with gabby subordinate Senior Research here at the Jerusalem Institute for strategy and security assistant building before i interrupted you, you started talking about self defense and self defense is indeed something that israel coins it on many occasions and something thats pressure also involved to justify its military operation in, in the ukraine. Do you think its a legitimate, the side of the valley is part of the, when the cri, you know, the, to a lot in another country. Oh, youre allowed to to be x on says be sense. What if you want, if you are affect your self defense i, i mentioned that russia, i did not say that the 2 x as self defense. I said that it was a i a, the, the, on my understanding what this to last shot is texting under the, the sense of self defense. Imagine, but the Russian Troops are, are deployed on the border between mexico and the United States. What the, what was the United States doing this sonata . Im shows that there were lots of states were not thought at such and ask, here is a conflicts color because this tension between russia and nathan russian, the west has been, had been boiling for many years prior to 2022. It wasnt a proxy for him. Cyber attacks, a, you know, military drills, chemical lapse. What have you, diplomatic strive . But it wasnt kinetic. What do you think allowed for these . Uh, sort of under the carpet conflict to become full. We expressed more on the battlefield. First the point was that an initiative of your government, the federal government, the russian government has stopped with and how do understand that the server . Yes, i understand that the 1st of all before the the and then ill stay to see begin actually to connect to cost basically, because there was some, some of the when you know, ill still be facing other means, you know, this now with the, the for mission at all, um, what we Call Information and compare. And so the influence of people that influence the only thing for wars i here for wars has been active very much and i dont know if its a complement or not, but the site is very, very well known as least in, in the mind media. But it was as well known for its ability to fund to conduct this kind of interest with yes, absolutely, this what i have my do, i know that russia is active all over the world in europe. Even now, what do you actually mean by that . Because ive been working with these general, which has been described as a propaganda before, and ive been working here for the years, but i tried to do all list analysis with a saw the 3 actually live on the same planet. But if its a, you know, comes up in the Nuclear Mushroom and nobody real bad is the 1st of all in brussel. Hes not the only one thats going bucks increments so, pollution every, every state the responsible states would use the different influence operation, which is a, you know, on a cell phone to propagation of your views on the team for wars once it went on. As long as they own your financial portion is not honest. A few of us, your views is okay. But the fall for us is tied to effect how people, for example, in germany or in poland or into both takes the think and act and using what we call influence stores or fake news or whatever, whatever do you want to use to, to convince them also to in the pull her eyes, the, the scores and to make good some carting stuff, realty. I dont see a rush i using to be honest with you. I dont see rushing using too much fake news. I mean like we have the trunk 100. 00 to ship this i, i dont know what this with a new model to because the pressure, i dont know whats to study more. Only god knows what is true. We are now facing. You know, when i read something, i dont know i, i believe nothing. What are you doing or whatever . Only my mind or sometimes my mind is, is money. Tutors is by others and i dont know that it has been manipulated. Throw seasonal effect or any more, you dont know what these through as well. So everybodys using the best way to get their goals will be it through beef natural. Nobody else. Now the americans like to say that a perception is reality, and this is actually one of the ways they used to post world view onto the rest of the world. And i think one of the reasons why the russians launched a military operation in ukraine is to prove that the reality is reality. And if your security interest off threatened, you have to respond not just by words, but by actions. Disney russia will succeed in that. I researched it 1st operation during the transaction was the 1st year. And so trying to understand what the, what, whats going on that you guys are also active very, very much into so you know, feed everybodys activity. And so, and this is a part of who are now, its become a part of what are you, you dont use only can ethics use also, can we in the war through influence operation only can you when of conflicts through influence . All 3, im sorry you have so in my view to the you know, to the for see and future without shifting bullets and without getting your money on your books, there is no way to win anymore. Now i drew some parallels between these rarely, pl listing and conflict, and the were in the ukraine. And i think one major difference is that whenever these rarely posting in strive goes kinetics, theyre always efforts to mediate or at least their calls for cease fire. But in the case of your brain, we havent seen any meaningful efforts. You mentioned the statements by former is really government. There have been some to rings and all that. A capitals, but nobody gave it a real hard effort. Why not . Why not . Yeah, well i, i think that the you, russia and ukraine did not receive a claim you scanned is not alone because ukraine is somehow authorized that slash money to later, bye bye. And american solved by western countries. And the, and the, the, the, the, the months of fuel could i in or is that asking uh, and not acceptable by the, by, in our shop. They the, it does not match, you know, they want to go to the board, the self and 9091 or something they dont. And it does not much. So as long as, and they stay on those 2 um bullet points if it went up to and it doesnt matter if you bring the money out to the table or bring someone else to the table trying to get terms to between the sides. It has to be, you know, ive read recently and then the last days that there is, that is the election in european se population so far for us to continue supporting your claim. And that is that addiction in america support to continue supporting your credit and just see what happens with the budget now in, in the corporate us, in the, in america. And maybe maybe the, you know, the restaurants is a huge part of this. I dont mess with the russians and, you know, maybe, uh, the russians are waiting. They have enough energy to wait until the you can use one of them or say, okay, i bundle, we stopped. This is extra level. So i think a very interesting parallel because for many years the United States, despite claiming neutrality, has been squarely on israel side. But uh, more recently, uh, the american support for israel hasnt been voted, but it has become less prominent, maybe less for right before friday. Do you think this thing could happen to ukraine . Because i know youve been the very strong advocate of self sufficiency when it comes to israel on defensive renters. Do you think your credit has any 1st, the largest . I dont, i dont want to fiddle for the gotta think, isnt it . Im, im, im a dental card for many is that is what i should not rely on. Anyone for its a defense is an actual defend itself by itself. We, we dont need all those coming into this without the americans for 4th financial before the military in our independence will. Okay. In 48 and we will 600000 people against a huge the minute the the effect on the side for from 0 down upstairs trying to conquer the joyce, the smoke to a settlement. Thats what the thing is like. I say im, im sure we can do it because we have a behind us 3000 years of historic and weve managed and we wanna manage. And the, i dont know theyre about to create new client is relying on just so that the numbers, the 45000000000 dollars of america the supports from the us through the last couple of us. And this is not most amounts of money. So i dont think that your client is going to abandon is a, its a what they perceive as the eliza on, you know, and, and the, and i hope that the nato is not pushing too much to enter the putting into an a to and which will escalate the situation completely input position. I think we have a, i will not throw out even the use of nuclear. You know, its, its, its very sensitive distortions, very sensitive. And i, i really, we are on a piece of piece, the and oil one piece. And i hope there, the, there will be found the before the solution for the conflict in russian. Well, uh, the difficulty with finding the peaceful solution is that its not just about the conflict of interest, a conflict between russia and ukraine. Its also about in a brother architecture in europe, and i see the as the look the, the, the, and the we had now discussions about the, the, the issue that america has been with an isaac. Its donna making it as a military monetizing means that isaac the economy and the, and, and this creates a counsellor, lucian, china, russia, india, and other really, you know, but i was in south america, the south africa, im sorry to south america at the foot to create an independent financial in framework, not to rely on the dollar and not to rely on. And this i think, is going to be their reactions for you and in the end, or maybe a, its most, although thats what im not to, you know, and its only focusing on the American Economy because it said we need some kind of more redundancy in this well, are self sufficiency or equality . It says it isnt. And we have learnt also for, on this war. You know, that the, the, the Health System of euclid has been destroyed by the russians. Fact. And the, and the, and the, you know, this is so not to get go so it can happen easily by all readings. And we have to find ways for to secure our Health System for attempt to go and listen, done secured for supply. Allison, done. And to make sure that is rarely self sufficient, was it as much as it can . Can i ask you one last question because israel also has to think about winning the so called hearts and minds of the people. On the other side, do you think theres anything that russia can authentically offered to ukraine to increase the chances of to settling on a National Basis and possibly keeping the big american proxy a b . Is there a i would presume to not think, you know, it would be presumptuous to me to, to try to advise that i should. Mental im, im asking about your opinion. Yeah. My opinion. But i have to, you know, when i have to intervene and it has to be based on something with what i dont feel that my base is sort of enough about the conflicts. Im, as i told it, with my, my main, my main concern about is about our conflicts and how to manage. For example, i know that it will be very difficult for is that the, when the house and minds of the ops, okay. The coffee is very, very deep and the which is not very deep in the, in your crime between, you know, most of you could, i have some options. Yeah. You know, well, thats a very, yeah, you know, the, with the numbers over manual 0 clearance options. Well, they dont consider themselves russians any more. Absolutely what the story key there, there they would rush. What historically . I mean many, the one on caesar, oakley, i meant, okay, this is the last, as i would exaggerate 100 years. And while we are with the on up, so we have a story. So its a, you know, so conflict is deeper, is i understand that its easier to getting tennessee. They will kind of go so far when that these virus still getting things without a while. I hope to be honest with the policy number because without ups and just seeing that then, you know, is the, is wing medical. So is the, with the around the corner of the agreements and with the, the saudi arabia. Now hopefully we, we will have to be solved the area and try to isolate the policy and an issue with the out of issues, which is very important for us as well as how the, both of this conflicts us settled in our lifetime lifetimes, mississippi, the f one to make you less that the, i dont you have case mike, i have kids. I told them, look, youre heavy enough. Also, you eventually will have, you know, well, uh, im not the, im really uh well, uh, i dont know if its a notes domestic or a pessimistic nose, but we have to live with there. Thank you very much for being with us. Thank you for watching hope this. Here again, was the part the. The most reason is munoz curtis. Imagine if you speak russian, keep your voice down while else in about. So we talk about that for us 1st page. So dont put your human symbols on display. The system stays reaching the guys, so you guys dont talk to strangers, the void noisy gatherings and rileys, which was one to push it to me what, but she didnt rely on get them in and what actually these new colleagues and perhaps also your friends think youre guilty because your russian let you know the boom. So what can i do . Im the was mindset from it. So id be glad to which is the team that does put teaching styles is be a good fit genetic on football by me. So the exception, if i need specific social concerning the take a fresh look around, theres a life kaleidoscopic, isnt just a shifted reality distortion by tell us to do vision with no real opinions. Fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen for you. Fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground . Can the, the as well as Prime Minister direct saw ideas forth is to continue needful attacks on garza, i make reports that an emergency and government led by next and yahoo is to be full of the Spokes Person wont turn off the terrorist. They wont escape consequences of their a Mazda Service will have nowhere to fully industry, but well get to them wherever they are. This to the images, gonzalezs hospitals where the palestinian web presence saves the Health Care System and garza has collapsed due to is really a tax on medical facilities also has this is a clear example of a failure of the us policy in the middle east provides wont be russian, the president of the me