People for me to grade again, if somebody is it, is it well to see and they say, well, this expedited visual, the big who visual, the visual, what is, what else is it from the logistic i not the way just is not the justice way, what do we go set up to do International Justice to some people on the side of it. While i wrote some of this news, our cost, so because next be sure to check that out from what we buy and go from the the the the hello and welcome to cross talk. Were all things are considered. I am peter live out, ukrainians, panhandler, known as the landscape, is beginning to lose some of his polish engineer. Western elite still adore him. After all. So lensky is their creation. However, western publics are showing signs of doubts. Who in the west voted for this now . Forever war the processing zelinski. Im joined by my guess, lionel in new york. Hes a legal and media analyst and were then we have anthony webber. He is an independent political commentator. And in lisbon we crossed to natalie morris. She is the host of the redacted podcast, right across black roles in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. And i always appreciate, im going to kick it off with lionel lionel. I said in my introduction, but uh, zalinski is a, an invention, a construct of the west. Uh, particularly the United States with the u. K. Goes along with it, nato lad. Good. So ill put it together. Well, what do you think . How is it . Uh, im gonna ask you, how would you say that that construct looks what, what, what makes it tick, lionel, as well as to those who understand it, thats one thing. But im sorry to say, i hope im not taken out of context. But the majority of people in my country here are completely disconnected as to who he is because we live in a world a fog of make. Believe it any way from taylors web to kim car session. Whats another media construct . What is this idea . If you had told me that all you need to do is to create a character with the green t shirt and some veiled reference to finding someone. And then just this, this bravado in breo, and that would be enough. I would say no, no, no, america would need to know specifics and whats the goal . And we would have remembered peter the days of vietnam and, and were not gonna fight again because of, no, it goes to show you yet again, that anything can be packaged. And if you provide as little as possible, but make sure you utilize also the social media platforms to promote things like flags and waving and anything that is either anti russian or as you put in orange, you throw that mixture in and you werent guaranteed complete and total pavlovian obeisance, and thats what were getting natalie and elizabeth, and of course were all aware of the incident that happened in the canadian parliament, the celebration of ukrainian nazi. And in, in parliament they stood up like seals in clouds. Okay. I mean these are supposed to be part of them and terry ins. Okay, this is one of the most embarrassing fool pods ive ever seen in my life. Though i beginning to be convinced that it was actually intentional because they are trying to rewrite history and theyre using this guy in the, in khakis to, to do it. But what were your thoughts on that . Because this, this was, i cant believe no one knew what would they were doing. Natalie wright, this idea that russia did not fight on the same side, allied forces seems to be completely lost in the context. So if youre talking about that, this man for the ss, thoughts against russia, you would have to know then that russia and america, and canada, and the west and western europe were all on the same site. So you could replace that and say this man actually fought against canada, this man fight against the United States. Would they still stand up or are they even listening . And so its so confusing to think about. Are they ignorant or are they sheep . And i cannot answer for that at this point. I, i just wonder, is it that the west has done such a great job with propaganda . That we have a good guy, a good guy in zalinski. And we were successful at painting him as this sort of that i dont know, you know, useful, right along side car to the Trump Administration scandal. The zalinski call. So already we thought like, oh, that poor guy, he would just drag through the mind, right. And then he pops back up again as this here, when it just proves how useful you can be you or how useful it is to have a good guy. And a bad guy. And zalinski right now is being used as the personification of west. Well, well, definitely let, lets be that i agree with you, but lets be clear. I mean, hes cutting a nice paycheck for doing it as well. Okay. All right, well i, im not talking at all about his intentions. Uh, you know, you would think that somebody with maybe a bit more morals would say, i cant be used to drag in an innocent men to their death anymore. Well, i, well, im, i dont want, i want, i want to have to, i want to get that the intentionality here, because i think it all has to do with actually money. And anthony to i, what, what i think is, is very interesting. Is this event in canada, and then zalinski goes around and explains what the western canon is, is if he knows me where i live, you know, ive been in this country russian for 25 years. I remember zelinski his true calling a comedian, playing a piano without any clothes on. Okay. And now hes been reinvented as the new churchill, which is really quite extraordinary. Thats why its all a marketing deal. Go ahead, anthony. What . Yeah. So i mean, hes being puts out see this role, but hes being, are pretty, youre not set. Hes played is called saddam is i create for these being sold to days. Um and they said trust the guy was looking guy. They are about the door a pipe is risk for out of what availability they are trying to try and see what another cause is. I had to stay under couple of his colleagues related, failed as having of sure will. Um, farmers and companies uh, in the 2nd for america by the use of this, how long and um, uh, even lawyers are very big. All these craving navigation knows the misappropriation of money. Um he still seems to get away with it because the media and the people who control the media. Ive got the confidence, i think. Right. Good jane. What are the by want for should lazy when there is tossing his foot by 8. Um, so um, already uh we, we seeing what happened with the canadian paulman. I used the industry appraisal noises to see how much they could get. So while he waited yet, but he has a shirt and bark berries, some opposition to this whole. So the scenario, i think ill also have to general public and ive also progressed in countries a guessing in charlotte, you probably talk with visual, but they got a voice. Theyve already left for media, which gives them a voice the tool because even the traditional uh, so the impact your take try channels uh seems to be controlled by cable vested interest as well. But eventually i think the voice is, will get out and uh, already best division in uh, some of the Eastern European countries, right. Kind of is this, i wrestle out with you clean and you can see that. So lets see, go over confident page, but see can go around the weld site where they rooms in sales. People who are you guys are using . Whos on bus . So there was a been installing wimbledon to a credit. Uh huh. So performance print, the site is getting uh, be on the jake and uh, but then that you see the paper with the pay. My offset is look up paper wise to let him stay as uh, dispensable. So what was the price is pots. Theyll be somebody else he could try. Yeah. All right, lets, lets, lets recall, uh, i mean, how soft, gosh, really, what do you see right now . Hes languishing in prison. Okay. I want why go, wheres he . Oh, he went back to what . His mothers basement. Okay. This happens all the time, like, 0, one of the things thats very troubling here is that zalinski signed up to basically cv annihilation of his entire country. I mean, you gotta be paid a lot of money to do that because i, thats the only explanation. I have is the gripped. Okay. You keep the grip going as long as you possibly can. Then you get a golden parachute lionel. I dont think that narrative is going to ever make it successfully, at least where i am. You dont want to go back to something that was said. This is about images. This is about psychology. This is about this manner. Can no question of good versus evil. Apple did big left for right. Good guy, bad guy. I tell people this and they think, im kidding. If you have, if, if mr. Lansky wore a suit versus his t shirt if he, if, if this were played in any other way going back, hearkening back to the romantic days of castro. Going back to the idea of, of a country that didnt just murky thing called history. You know, i, i cannot tell you how today i am still bombarded with people on the right, especially right now who are using words like im in his left is marxist. A kind of comedy, just a and confusing that with fascism. What and theres this, theres this hodge podge. Theres kind of a slum, go in all the images. Theres also somebody that i tell people right now in our country, theres a big debate about the Congress Closing down and funding. And what about Student Loans . And im telling you your student loan that is in ukraine and, and once i tell people im saying, do you understand theres not been one hiccup . Not one second of anything. You dont even know where the money is going. Theres no audit. This is your money. Well, but line like line or theres no audit when you go to natalie, real quick here, but youre, im glad you brought up the, the government shut down, even if it does shut down, which it will, its kabuki theater here, but the payments the ukraine will not be interrupted, natalie. Yes, but i want to address what you said about this. So lensky is an actor and zelinski is making money and there is corruption. And those things kind of slipped through the cracks of american media. They sort of are past off as if theyre extremist pacifism, right . What i think people dont understand. And really, i think, you know, for me, that looks beyond the media narratives. But what are the facts is that the lensky allowed the people of the don boss to be attacked for 10 years . He ordered extra attacks on the don boston 20212022 was preparing to attack crimea, and that the people there asked for russian protection and voted to become a part of russia. Those things are undeniable. They are not being presented to the west, and the rest of it is being packaged as extremist or passive, as to propaganda. And thats the thing that makes me so crazy is that there are facts there. So when you put zalinski on your social media or a ukrainian slide as your profile, what your saying is that i dont know, i dont care or i dont understand that this government has been firing and attacking civilians and then escalated a war in order to get natos attention and it worked as Proof Positive of your social media profile. Yes, yes. And it is a tacit acceptance of it forevermore that none of us ever voted for. Alright, im going to jump in here. Were going to go to a short break. And after that short, bracewell continue word, assess discussion on zelinski state with the as soon as 2016 numerous monuments, the soviet soldiers in poland, ukraine and the Baltic States have been destroyed or vandalized fish their stuff, but it must be the most certainly within. Yeah. Unless or even some others could ask if i really think so thats for the most on whether its its especially almost 3 of the to Police Government denies the rule of. So itd be its own just in the victory of a non system. And is it raising historical memories of world war 2 . Because the tape is from your story, although it did seem the non supervision is the trustees would remain, thinks in peoples consciousness, but have a but as long as russell phobia is profitable and brings dividends, you are willing to have a to rewrite the cost. Yes. To, to take up the ill provides for i need to see thing because folks do, i need to know who, what else they just dont have to shape house because the application and engagement equals the trails when so many find themselves will support. We choose to look for common ground, the the welcome ex, across stock were all things are considered computer la belcher menu. Were discussing zelinski the. Okay, lets go back to anthony here. Um bill bill crystal, the arch neil con. You dont have to say g o p or democrat, hes just a neo con. Hell go with uh, you know, hell go with it. Whatever, paymaster, here the g o p is in the name of the g o. P. Bill kristol is going to be promoting a, a commercial, a goes along the lines when american arms, when america arms ukraine, we get a lot for a little. Essentially war is good. This is a campaign to kick in the forever war. I dont know how many of my guess or audience saw josh holly after a briefing, and he said the quiet part out loud. This plan is to keep the world going on forever. Anthony, go ahead. Well, it is terrible who would have to say, so nobody suspects. Im americas getting bobby for money because that does a lot of destruction of russia. Russian forces weve out says spend the lives of americans Service People because really pass those inside of a trade because a number of americans Service People have to. All right, thats uh, its a little bit in caps on the, on the right. But its, its not cable was the policy and after understand when drivers support. So thats how the guys free this idea. So in my, ive gotten a some, but then theres a switch side, right . Yeah, theres not a mandate for a for apple and all the time, trees and rolls are at miss our toll free chairs supply and all this. And thats talks with um, the us with movie 42nd 1000000000 site. You saw mine come trinity, you guys 7300000000 dos and lots of all the money, but its just different. See you, they do you crying, but sun is not in mine, right . Well, so i have a for this, and they may have the 2 sided for the referenda is in crime at the top i see 3 pos, all of a sudden your crime is probably to say become positive. Russia by you say, but not recognizable penguins even gave elections in the ukraine. Good price by the name im was, im glad you brought that up because i think that the, they both of the don bass in crime, it were more valid. The referendum were more valid than the 2020 election, but now im getting ahead of myself. Okay, thats a different topic. Litle its, its very into. Im glad that anthony brought it up because there is will, because of zalinski says there is martial law in ukraine. They cant have elections. Well, i mean, the United States had elections in afghanistan and iraq during a, a war. Uh so, and United States had an election in at 1864. 00 during the war. But so lets get you turned around say, well, if you gave me 5000000000. 00 by 1000000000. 00, maybe well think about it here. I mean, the graft is just outrages final i be thinking what we are saying right now if i could take, and im sorry to keep saying this, but just the average american and even even those people who fancied himself with his being politically and knew as a student, lets say the fox news contingent or anybody. And if i gave them a device and every time anything that we mentioned, a name, a city, a done by the soleski, if ever any of this sound remotely familiar, all they had to do was just push a button. You would see this flat line. What we are doing is this is international, political theater discussion. This has no basis. This would not even be recognizable in most areas on most ations, at most platforms here where i am, thats the problem. This is fantastic. I thoroughly enjoy mentioning and talking about this. But this has no audience here and, and im trying to figure out why is it, is it because of the complexity you know, is it because the, the, the subject matter is its foreign. He does, is it history . Is it the School System . I dont know what it is this, this insatiable in curiosity, this level of detachment, this idea that give me a punch drunk, something i can look at almost like a name brand, good or evil. Got it. Im over here now. You know, how much time were talking in this country about hunter biden. But do, do you know this, this is the, this is the most you want to think about this laptop or whatever it is. I cannot believe this, this is wall to wall and im thinking its a distraction. Well for the light oh light. Oh, its really quite hilarious. Actually. I Hillary Clinton so you know, we are, it was elizabeth warren, all roads lead to russia. Actually. They follow being to create a, wed see a good part of russia gate was invented in ukraine. Ok. I mean that, that. Ok here, natalie, whats, whats really interesting is itd be st. Zalinski likes to go around the world stage. And so im kind of celebrity. But his poll numbers are really bad in ukraine because of corruption because corruption is, i mean, it was always there, but its really ramp and right now, i mean, and, and then his wife, i dont know, you know, what was all about that he might not run or i dont think there will be an election because i think he wants to stay president perpetuity, go ahead. Natalie. Yes, but the polls for zalinski were really low, even before the conflict. So this is not new. We know that this conflict has caused him politically quite a bit to and i cant imagine as a mother and a wife, anything more terrifying than thinking that my family could be could scripted into a war. And i cannot vote out the leaders for a different outcome. You cannot vote in a piece leading leader, you cant. And so when they call you up, youve got to goes got to just go to die. And so the idea that zalinski may win or lose based on this war is fatuous, because he already was losing, which may be why he escalated the conflict by ordering the attacks. And i believe is lionel who just spoke about or was it, im sorry, the other guest who spoke about how the United States, they just dont know where its happening. They dont have any idea. They think the words been and key of all along. They think that everyone throughout all of ukraine has been being bomb to. They dont understand where the map of these 3 regions are, how they connect to odessa. You crimea, they because the media will not show the maps. This is one thing that i just, i check it over as a News Reporter is that they dont show the maps so that you dont see that the line of conflict has not moved fairly a centimeter throughout this chapter. And were only told the counter offensive through through headline youre absolutely right, the anthony. I mean its one of the things i think weve all noticed in the last few weeks seen any. We had, you know, secretaries they blanket or i should call them books blitzkrieg. Now, what is it, you know, ukraine is when it ukraine is winning. And now its russia. It is losing russia a lot. They dont, they dont say winning for the ukrainian side anymore. Theyve shifted that there. And later in the week, im going to do a program and how its all the really about china now theyve added that on to the narrative. Here we have shifting narratives here, but natalie is, is i right . They never give you any facts that you can, you know um grab around. Okay. Anthony, go ahead as well as this, or im sorry say that thats the topic of this cost. Going back to the casualties. Big guy where were talking about 5 or 600000. 00 d credit and casual phase, which is pretty on the sustainable for the better population by sol caps, body plots, but more suitable for because basically already democracy presided free media. They try to play style manual for adults, shot chevy, who crimes. So theres like freedom whatsoever. And now theyve sold are outside of the trying to, uh, black truck headphones. So theres nothing left support for tolbert. None of these guys in the main stream media because it is controlled by those people who want to want to continue on liaison canada. Theres about 10000000. 00 refugees because a population has gone down from either 14 to about 5 feet a 1000000 or course the local guys are avoiding signing up for military service because a grain day, the chances of surviving or press the light box. We have a pretty terrible situation, but if you look at the money registry space spends what could be done for the world in terms of growth. Hunger wants to supplies you name it way were products for issac wold or should i say the western government surprise, isaac is spending money a lot. Well, you know, anthony, its a, its a real pity that maui in hawaii. Its real pity molly wasnt in ukraine at the time. Okay. They, they probably would be bearing much better line. Oh, i know the administration has already said that theyre going to bring invest 40000000. 00 in the pacific initiative. They said that recently. And so theres money there put for the pacific, but thats for military expansion. Thats for new embassies in that region. Thats for new military bases. But its all being presented as this to, for one under the guise of Climate Change like they need us there for climate. Well, heres the military. I dont. How do i make sense . I think the, the residents on malware youre not thinking about Climate Change right now. Okay, cuz right, were all, were almost done tonight. Were almost out of time line. Well jump and go ahead to natalie bought at the most important point that ive been saying for decades, we dont understand geography to point. The 1960 to our country almost went to war with russia over missiles, allegedly in cuba, 90 miles away. No problem. We understand that if i do have a was her old and then we also have border problems. Here we are being invaded by folks from somewhere crossing our border. In one respect, we have of the absolute crystal clarity as to the importance of borders inside warranty. But yet when i moved to another country and another part of the world and im safe, what would you think of china or to set up some version of the same data or some the ccp version of this in t one or what do you think should be our response, complete 180. So i dont know if its, if there is nations or the ability to take something from the past and apply to the future. Youve got me. But if you dont know where geography is, if you dont know where these places are, if you dont understand what pro pink, what do you mean . You dont understand anything. What . Okay, natalie, we have party seconds left here. Ive. Im sure youre, youre very assured now and can sleep well at night that sean penn is going on a television telling the world you dont have to be afraid of new killer war. Okay. Finish it off for yeah, thatll oh, i have no words for that useful idiot. I dont know. Its well that i will. Uh, yeah, i would suggest everybody go to uh, jimmy doors, youtube page. And it has, they have a discussion about sean penn and the title is perfect on that video. I just, i just can say appear on television. Okay. But it, it, right, it is a very with useful lady at the type put it right down with that. Um, uh uh, thats all the time we have on it. Take my guess in new york where the and, and lose when of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here on t r t. So you next time, remember prospect the the watching is why is the why in this control . If i give but plenty of the store in this this, she said in a short order, for now im not going to stay less. So could i scan when i am, what i could catch at your desktop session . Lets just sean your just a bunch of mine is going you said on the whats the, the, the, the, the senior session of a lot right now. Moving up, i need to ship a position associated with the local church. So see if they dont boulevard too much and watch coolers rates when it was a job bullshit. So put it on the cards. You put the room in the gym, the one in the heart, that of all are just want to illustrate. You other choose control to push myself from any sleep cluster yesterday actually, which is kind of charlotte series. Im with a number of words somewhere else than what is coming up. So im just one from that i will start following charter daughter. You to a new new north Sheriff Service in law school from advocates, a sort of a good idea. Did you validate the the so so, so is this how in canada is prime is included, sorry, subsides and tables on russia accusing end of the Political Drama of the he himself, the of a stunning innovation to a former world will not see collaborative pan has called the citizens, nazis, well he muster the courage is stand up on his feet today and take responsibility for me. Successfully doing the task assigns with the next points for marines can be seen the tv screen on the 247. The come on are the russian black sci fi to report live on operations instead of a simple dismantling lesson media spirit. And you hadnt been killed recently claiming im fine. And scandalous navigation