Allister kirk, hes not director of the baby based conflicts for him, and he joins me again from rome initially. A task like so much for coming back on. I know youre in a bit of an equi room kind of reba abused in a hotel california. Or i think the people that have to read your writing as to why i have to have the lyrics of the Eagles Hotel California on this device here. When our editor in chief is more into pink floyd, but to have people really will be my actually name check is im drawing this into you so gala or of in new york, thats all in the hills or wednesdays, informal bricks, meeting, bite and celebrating woods. The landscape, the wife has 2 separate welds now and the International Community versus the United States. And as i said in the, in show you will vessel states of the United States. Certainly, but increasing maybe the United States is, is becoming isolated. I think that although europe gives to come a hampton, oh, its too old washington. What can i do was to, i mean, it is made itself of bustle of washington, all the bite and administration. So no, it wants to keep its jobs. So they have to say the right things, but theres great divisions and much more. So in the ground level where people, i mean, the economic consequences of the sanctioning of russia. I just planning a now in terms of higher unemployment and people cant afford food. I mean, the food prices have gone up so much. There are many, many, most of the 0. 41 battalions couldnt afford us on the holidays here. Many of them are late in the publish. It is, is, is fairly serious. So, so those, the stirrings of anger, im pro chest just what has happened. But of course theres no, theres no vessel for that. Theres no structure. Theres no policies that credit ready take that forth because all of the main policies were corrupted on the co. 5 rustles, this sort of centrist, left centrist right, lookalikes. So you know, actual reform of the european union, all the project or even a serious analysis of why rain made so many mistakes. That by to crate, we made the mistake of sanctioning russia made a mistake because thinking that this was all going to come right in, in, in, in a few weeks. Latham mistake of getting involved in the proxy will with ukraine and made a huge mistake in, in pursuing this and formulating language and formulating expected outcomes that are actually going to hit back like a boomerang. Them hurt them more because theyre not going to get you know, rusher isnt about to collapse either economically, politically or culturally. In fact, its called stronger during those process of sanctions. And theyre trying to think europe has called a lot poor a long week and very much for the zip codes medias. Cents to ship where youre speaking to me from the official medias, cents to ship and the european union, of course, in britain as well. But the signs of defense in the United States. I mean, even the sold spoke of New York Times, showing the fake news that rusher inject a market with him was, in fact, it looks like the lensky force is getting civilians in, in dont. Yes. How easy will it be . While, as you say, west in europe just sits there with many people dine this winter. How easy will it be in the United States to d, couple from of, i suppose, west in europe and from the policy given that it has managed to do so very well, was in regards of failure in afghanistan and so on. It did manage to do the switch quite, quite easily, isnt it historically as well . Europe is divided and it makes it much harder for, for washington to go ahead because a narrative is always be, you know, nature, always united in your nature is together. Thats no longer true that are on deep positions, both at the military level and also increasing the political level about that. But that point you made it by the New York Times. You know, these things dont happen by accident. I mean the last times unless keys came to work came to washington. Um, you know, this was too too much for us. Welcome in congress and he was a hero and he was sort of celebrity. Everyone wanted to shake his hand. This time it was a bit different. So when the, when biting spoke in the us at the General Assembly. Um, you know, there was a policy in reference to your client, but most of it was about reforming the world older and about the Security Council and the brakes and how to actually change well order and yes. So was it a reference to, you know, where with ukraine, but it was going to play 2 plus and it was nothing and they looked so crazy and, and christ for them. I mean, the, the, the ukrainians were really unhappy. Lensky had a sort of angry sort of grim look on his face and the others did as well. And then, you know, the writings on the wall hold on one to youve agreed to, to meet with him. It was agreed to meet with him in the us. Um, you know, when he did speak at the cemetery, i dont know the exact numbers, but i mean, it was how soon to see. Yeah, i saw the reverse shots that was very interesting and how, how goes it lets you know, to addressing congress, either all of these congressmen who are being enrich guarantee or these, the donors, the back. Some have been in rich from the companies from this conflict. Im, well, you mentioned surprisingly, so it is quite important the sort of signals and sign. So you know that we havent shifted yet, but we are shifting in and washington is shifting. Um, just as your of is sort of a sort of robot crab like sort of trying to find a way for to but i mean yes, it was quite important the symbol. So the, the change and the change in the tone as well. Oh yeah. I mean, you know, as i say these things, a choreographed in washington and they dont happen by accident. This was a signal to zalinski. It wasnt just, you know, pull, you know, pull reception pulls the landscape. This was intended from the New York Times piece to the reception at the assembly and also was, you know, no, no, no, no, no congress, this time, no signing of a flag and everyone sharing and right. And you know, this is the saying, i mean, look, what happened, the g 20 meeting went ahead. So lensky was not to invite the last time he was, there was no, so lets keep that. And even that billing is the source. So overall, the full long cycle on the margins of the g 20 gathering to discuss who the nato and g 20 discussing the future of the project to crate. So the big shift and how are they going to get out of it . Well its, its 22. 00 i should say thats, thats the relevance to vehicle. So they, they dont seem to be able to check out of the hotel or do you credit the culture it goes because youre always welcome to come forgetting i, which is always difficult. And its, its different, its going to be additional for everyone. I mean, you suggest points back to your or, but i mean, so the United States, particularly, its difficult to get home because they keep talking that they want to phrase with conflict. And they want to just simply a see saw along the coast construct line is around, i should just have been told from so then schemes we need to learn to live with the goal. And so we need to none. Israel is it will we have prepared for a very long time, like in israel, for example, we can live like the that was that i know well thats yeah, but thats nonsense. I mean, the quite incapable of living like that unless see americans are prepared to finance it. Out of the rpms to i mean the money is a, is all expended in front of them. And i mean, the forces have been decimated. They have almost no shell, its best. But the point is, you cant, you know, you handled a new, a new on me from amazon. It just doesnt work like this. I mean, you, you may have to grow it over generation, but theyve really lost so many man, maybe up to ha 1000000, dad. So its really, i mean, its tragic, more than anything else. Its really tragic. Its always young men have been sent off to that. Thats works for good, all takes it the General Assembly. Good. All thinks in washington that they be fighting right up to the last moment. The chief of defense stuff of the, of the premiums say they can probably just continue for 30 days. Small, 3040. 00 day small, but after that they wont be able to continue any offensive at all because theyre wrong. I mean, you know, you, you, you need bodies. Theres no point having weapons and the tanks given to you. If you dont have bodies to drive the tanks or the whole weapons, and then getting to that point, which is a point really a complete spaces. I mean, almost as if you know that when you will, stung by a scorpion, just different things, thoughts, new youre, youre just paralyzed and theyre getting very close to that. Does that mean the end of the war . Well, it depends which war were talking about in terms youll be understanding. Is this, the less likely how to the greater to out in the sense that the lesser do hon is the, the military war inside you crazy. Well, i mean, thats probably coming to an end or low. We may see another chapter because russia has been diligently preparing another chapter to it. Its used as a period of the sort of offences where ukraine without success as being by me is head against the defensive florida. Russian. Russia has been quietly doing that as being coffee, renting a manufacturer of shows is drones over across tank season and accumulates. And it looks as if a ready and been delivered from the stall piling these weapons and theyre all stopped, highly trues. I mean, you have the, i know the headlines were about the blacks, the fleet being damaged. That was the big zalinski victory was how did they mostly do that . Why was there and a half field from which to launch attacks on. So basketball as well as they, i mean they havent been shutting, they did destroy all of the storm shadow munitions recently, but the person is at the break. Yeah. No, the breads. Mm. Rush them some more if they still go to any. But yes, i mean, yeah, visa, annoying to russia, but dental teach it can any way . I mean they hit one landing cross lake damage to submarine with uh, after sending 10 cruise missiles and uh, 3 go through out of the 10 and did some damage. Um, but in the, in the, in the Bigger Picture of so well, i mean its a pin prick. I mean, you know, the russians just have to bite the bottom left button and we can say, you know, is the sign x ray of someone who is desperate not assigned to someone who is in a powerful position that you get around to doing this. These are just all takes as they look great in the western press. Oh, you know, headlines and some basketball being attacked. And so, but it, it doesnt really do much and they are um, taking stronger measures against it. And, you know, as it will be, the will, the moment solves the will be another launch of missiles. Were waiting to see in the winter. I think its quite evident what we should very much you said, you know, across the russians here. And im so telegram channels and chat shows on television. These everyone is released calling on the government to say. So lets, lets just bring it to an end for us. Capitulation from can just finish it as a group called stop us. More from the former advisor or middle east issues, the Foreign Policy g 5 years, one often has break the the the, [000 00 00;00] the the welcome back to going under granite. I am still here without us to correct former british diplomats and founder and current director and the baby based conflicts for him. Well see what we were talking. I think you were mentioning zillow usually in the 1st hop i want to get onto is conflict perhaps in case of with the nazis that ill give you a uh, but i was gonna mention bite. And since we were talking about him and he was on the loan with zalinski, more to come from the impeachment of joe biden, media narrative in the United States. And i dont know how well it will be reported in western europe, which is also funding this conflict with the bible by an impeachment to if it is reported daily on us television, could make a difference. Oh, really. I mean, the Democratic Party is in the isnt panic at the moment. Not just because of the that is going to be extremely damaging they expect. Because its increasingly obvious to them that hes not a credible candidate, a tool. And that, you know, the large majority of the democratic supports dont want to see him as a candidate for the presidency. But theres no alternative. They havent got a, you know, sort of standing ready. But the frames are, are in some sort of agree. Yes, and thats why its going to by saying impel the democratic um, the d n. C, the National Council one, i seem to get away from ukraine for the rest of the election to concentrate some other issues. I mean, obviously they kind of concentrate and the ones that they think will help like abortion policy, but mostly, you know, and for them. And the other thing very warning is that the economy is spending bad and they is, that is being kept from people, you know, information is going down from 93 percent. Well, if you believe this isnt the old saying, i bought a bridge to sell you. Its not done like that the figures of being manufactured and being sort of massage to keep it down by trying to supply oil from the strategic cause of kept the oil price down, put pressure on you, said the u. S. Has 20 days of from this through to anybody. Thats right. Thats all theyve got last. If they have to use, they have to use the strategic use of to run the country, it would run out in 20 days. So, i mean, the, i mean theres a lot of stress on the Democratic Party and they dont really know how to do it. And, and equally, they all, you know, there are forces that the, the, the, the state that the Security State is determined to stop, trump from ever being allowed to be president of the game. And yet he is far away the most popular leader in the it, were pumping the others. It was sort of put up as you know was us tonight. If he didnt style, i mean a training miles behind the us already seeking to jail him. Oh cool. Is here so well, at least to get a guilty and i then probably jerry and then you go hell. So the wild card, those kennedy whos very popular and is a sort of the sort of cross policy support taking place. I mean, so many of the trauma people support kind of day full is going to be talking truth. I mean, he is very, a very much knowledge for the fact that he has a person who actually says it has it is. And so it sort of intersects between parties between crosses between left and right its, its a sort of new phenomenon taking shape in the United States. The democrats are also very frightened about that. Yeah, i understand that kennedy has no uh, security detail as for vitamins decision and there was some kind of attack. So between the attempt to jail a jump and that perhaps as, as a nation on a land from a family who is famous for assessing nations and worrying that democracy over there. But yeah, back to village, be the battle mt a because the nature ation media the battle was, well, booting is over because theres a cool in the offering and youll be in writing however that there is a battle between the i suppose i go to nazis and visually and that, that side of the Ukrainian Government in kiev. So could that explode at any moment . Yes. Any time that can explode because its become, you know, increasingly obvious to the military that they thing let up, the primrose, paul, you know, theyd be sending, you know, a young man, a new law offices. I dont care who they are doing, like sending mail to that dest, unnecessarily, from the political military game. So theres increasing dissatisfaction in the military, of course, propaganda, or as pride to keeping so this contain during this period. But thats so much the case because the question keeps coming up for the okay, you know, you say youre going to start again next year. Why is that going to be any different next year from this year . And whats gonna happen this winter . Do you have any idea about that . So the, the, the ultra nationalist are very much on the defense and trying to keep everything going by really, by strong law tactics more than anything else. And, you know, just try a propaganda. But the tensions are enormous. And of course the people are really because theres been less conscription where, you know, theyve had that brothers and fathers and things just sort of rounded up people and thrown in a truck to go to the front to be killed. I mean, theres a lot of that, but theres no, theres no structures for Popular Defense is whole being crushed. I mean, they, it does when bmw popular, i think a con happens. So its got to be a sort of internal fight at the top level of the regime to, to sort this out. And, you know, it may happen, and im sure the russians are watching very, very close game low for information. Then we do about, you know, these tensions and if them maturing, cause i authorized this, i mean, put it in has been very catholic. He hasnt wanted, i know you told me earlier. Why was that . Why was there an Actual School going still operation . And many people say, well, why of a bridge is still operation will put him as old is try to do a process of uh, you know, not completely devastating. The concrete not leaving in like uh, you know, uh the school district. Thats like, youre ok no. And so, i mean, hes always done it sort of income mentally. Hes always had his eye on the politics, the global well politics, the brakes, the generally the politics trying to judge when is the right moment that the ukrainian system is completely exhausted. And then maybe to contemplate a push to give it a good at the end of the end of this process. I think, you know, thats probably what we may see and offensive, and i would think he would probably go on as far as the need for the new pro. Probably would hope that well, put him sort of re sort of political t leaks in the west and europe. I mean, obviously, you know, you just starting the russians, the russians may have a handle the g, r, you or whatever have a handle on the, in the circle there. And you have the show, the see i did the accurately predict the move. Finally, to save the people who dont pass by boots in strips and you know, youre being close to the Intelligence Services in britain with decades. Do you think not think that the british specific day as opposed. I have a, some kind of idea about this a n o you moment 5, typically a rupture in care of destroying of the british war a, sort of in the british conflict games and new, great. The people on the ground and americans on the ground in cash, and i mean, oh, most certainly inside and attached to the minute traits still know whats going on. The weather is that information gets up the treat to the political Decision Maker is a, is there a move in in d . I know it was a great intelligence qu by the c. I a then because it was, it was quite a, it was quite obvious. Um, uh was what was happening. I mean, who to never went into ukraine with the intention of us, of military victory. He went to just show us a show of holes to show he was serious about negotiation. Well, that didnt happen. I didnt want to, so he had to mobilize and they have to regroup. And now they already there were any indeed for what was the hold of nature if necessary. Theyve been preparing enormously. Theyll have at the end of the sort of reorganization allow me in about 1200000 really big. I mean, were talking serious numbers. I mean, they to come do nothing against us. Nothing. Okay. Im afraid, im afraid today wasnt that obvious to some of our Pretty Amazing guests we had on this program in the run up to the s m. O. Beginning as the russians call it. There is another demand for those troops have been sitting on the boat for about 9 months, right up on the border as a signal that it was an attack on the bus as the pain. You know, they would come and then we had full days in the lead up to this thing where there was Something Like 20 fold increase in the shelling of dont boss. And you not to be honest. And also i knew, i cant say exactly how, but i knew that the russian was that got the full plans for the offensive against on the exc. And nancy given to the bias also as best. So they knew it had to have, it just stopped in february and they knew they had to act. They had the whole story just uh and finally, cuz we, we could be talking for hours of course, as usual. Uh, zalinski, in the economist containing a, do you grain with her on the war. And then this warning to the capitals of western europe, including where you are rome, i suppose there is no way of predicting other millions of ukrainian refugees and European Countries would react to the country being abandoned. If youre not with ukraine, you are with russia. What sort of threats i mean is talking about Nuclear Weapons in new data. So im going to rush here with you in General Assembly rather bizarrely that on this if there is a ton in washington, what are these millions of refugees in western european capitals . Whats the threatening exactly look when he says the war is going on. I mean, the reality is the test united said states just simply said no more money, no more weapons, april a widow would and very would be at peace suggesting the sleeper cells or oh yeah, actually, i mean, you know, so its been so much exaggeration. Maybe one or 2, we sold the water one or 2 in russia. I mean, one of them killed a friend of mine diarrhea to gain. She was assassinated by a steepest cell pro knob turned into a fumble. She was a very, very intelligent young woman. Im just list assessment, like theres no doubt they keep track nameless, im not sure how capable of doing it, but certainly once the money and the weapons go, it will be a game changer. They content they come. I mean, the idea is that they can just go on to they can go on. So yes, i how please walk through you because i say you can just go to ikea or an order or a new ami. Its not like stuff is, you know, and there are lots demand and then you know, even if you get some 16 year old, so 60 arrows. I mean theyre on trade. They have no motivation. I think a lot of the ukrainians actually with us that theyre all in the or a todd of all people would love to get back to normal. Just go back to normal life to see that relative some to you know, celebrate christmas and so used to so i dont think will be, i dont think well be in a, in a crate to turn against. Um, we are up for the maybe one or 2. I think europe is much more worried about others. I mean, weve seen whats been happening in line producer with huge influx of a young man from africa and who, you know, i dont know what the future is in europe, but its not going to be. Its not going to be easily settle this problem. Why dont i guess the way we will have to come on . I told you guys about that. Of course i was just directly. Exactly. That was a good. Thank you. Thanks to you have thats it for the show will be back on saturday with a brand new episode of on the ground. But until then keep in touch, why were lost social media. If its not sense, it didnt your country and had to watch. I dont going undergoing tv on rumble. Dont com to watch new and old episodes of going underground sees after the the, theres no end in sight over how youre going to continue to destroy the earth. Is the case for the med, most of the people. I tried to go to the gym, but im certainly not ready to fight russia. This is also of soon. This is the 3rd world lunacy re washing as close to the funder line. Likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deal, some of the living will not have very close propaganda. You know a price here in new york. I think we dont know the aftermath any time that youre not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. The more questions ask the better the answer is will be the the, [000 00 00;00] the,