A flight in asia and nations because of the nature of proxy. What was russia . Well, what about the millions displace . Because of us as invasions and countries like afghanistan, there are going to be in syria or interventions in central invest in america. Im going underground recently, a former advisor to us authorities argued from old militarization of the board of characterizing the frontier between mexico and the usa is the greatest board of crisis and us history. But toward miller takes a different approach following the money, the, all of the of build bridges dont was a journey to a World Without board is joined to be not from tucson, arizona, to, thanks so much for coming on. As i was saying, who was taught benjamin, he came on the show and i did try that. Hes testified in congress about immigration. E claim, the us doesnt need that many more immigrants saw us off, but he certainly said, look, you know, its is full. Thats what, thats what those one less immigration theyre talking about. Its just the law and the fact we, the United States needs more or fewer immigrants is by the, by all these are legal immigrants are coming and this is the biggest crisis. What do you think when i hear those, those sources sense of minutes and statements . I, i really think to, you know, theres in the United States, theres pretty powerful forces that are smaller, more blogger fortification, more and very a. And, you know, i guess the, the term that uses anti immigrant, right . But the, the, or against the idea of the people crossing in the United States and those, those sorts of arguments. The argument that you just laid out is, is definitely straight coming straight from that. Thats what i nearly think of when i, when i hear those sorts of already. So youd agree with them in saying that it is the was born of christ and you as well. And the crisis in us history just from a different perspective that though i hesitate to use the word crisis, the lower price is used quite a bit with a border. Its always become a little bit cliche just to say the least, the way that the word crisis is use a slap in years. Oh, theres people just coming over the border and its a k i can add in and uh we have to put this down. But the, if i were to argue it was a crisis my, the, the perspective that i would take would be of that, of looking at it from another angle. Its more of a crisis. You could say a militarization, my price this of the place that looks unrecognizable really from what it did 25 years ago or 30 years ago. If youre to follow the last 3 decades and how expensive really the border is in florida by the militarized in that and really focusing on different cities and towns that are on the border. And some of the walls and plenty of towers including a or ritual stations. And theres some places on the border where you see more border control, then you do local residents, right . And then the kind of consequences you see and the consequences are there are many consequences, but it could be 2 really important ones. One is the, the kind of strategy that the, the, the, the border or the military base on the border house been deployed. This as hes been through whats called prevention through the insurance. And that to go into this too long. But the whole idea certainly is to florida fi certain areas of the border with that. Of course, people to circumvent and go through places like the arizona desert and i live in arizona and every year and this year is no exception. People crossing the border die because they cant carry not water or not food. And the other part of it is local residents. You go and talk to local residents in arizona, and ill go to el paso, that is a barto at the new mexico to the orlando, california. And you will hear people complaining about Border Patrol, set points. Youll hear people talking about the home invasions of the people in the Border Patrol coming into their homes. Yeah, i want i want to get into it, particularly as all episode in south arizona. I know you are in arizona or in a moment and i wanna get to uh, some denials of that from the Us Administration from joe biden. And the, from the administrators that i have to see is saying this. Im going on the run quite a bit lately. Given the 10s of billions of dollars of us public money is going to fund the weapon sent to ukraine. And were not giving Investment Advice here. But if anyone would read your many books on the border, a tele there, a particular come companies, Defense Companies, arms companies, making masses of money out of this border in inverted commas. Border crisis, which companies are the ones the people should invest in, you know, which are obviously making a lot of money out of this. And what they say ill give me is echoed through mainstream media. Think tanks, policy makers and academic institutions. Yeah, this is i think i could get some Investment Advice right here because of the border industry as a growing industry has been a growing industry, particularly since 9 a lot and particularly since 2001. And i have great hop right reports looking at the Different Companies that have been that are the top product tiers of, of the top contractors. We should say that are getting on the, on the, on the Us Mexico Border particularly. But i want to stress that these contractors are, you know, not only unders on the Us Mexico Border, but around the world in different border areas. Most of them are our names that probably your viewers little find familiar like Lockheed Martin as one of a very big contract working with a fixed wing aircraft to the us Border Patrol. You have northrop grumman, which is another big military contractor who this company has gotten contracts around biometrics or theyre developing a new biometric system known as hearts. And thats the future when youre looking at that sort of thing. Youre looking at Iris Recognition based so recognition. So, you know, those sort of advanced data bases that, you know, store peoples information, that sort of thing. And, and those are just 2 companies. Theres a lot of Different Company in their company. Theyre smaller companies. And i mean, obviously the, obviously they, they will say they abide by the 4th amendment of the us constitution. And all of them would say theyre merely trying to make things a safer to enforce u. S. Law and the u. S. Customs and Border Protection says, guided by the highest, ethical and moral principles and exhibiting the highest level of professional responsibility. C, b cbp, the costs of the board of protection of whats employees drive every day to maintain the public trust and then still the confidence of the communities we serve and put checked. Thats what they say. Thats a great public. Thats a great Public Relations line. Im sure that you know that thats exactly what you would expect to hear from customs and Border Protection. You wouldnt expect them to talk about, you know, the different sorts of things that go on the part of the people dying coming across the border. But those that, of course, thats, thats, thats the, the line that, that we often receive directly from the Customer Support or jackson. But i want to say that, that sort of line goes way beyond that. Its in washington as well. I like you can see it in by that and terminology used around the bar like Border Security. Border security is a term thats used a very often. Yeah, its a word that if you start to unpack it and see what it really means and see does, does this border florida vacation tremendous border part of the case and create security for p . No, definitely. Yeah. For people crossing the border. So instead of insurance policy is about people being but its a more insecure or even more all situations and definitely not necessarily secure for People Living along the border to who are complaining more and more of the resorted federal events. So what is the word security . What is this Border Security . I think there were there questions that, that needs to be asked about how this sort of Public Relations line is the sort of terminology that goes on question and unpacked. And then subsequently they need to then unpack that terminology. Lets see what this Border Security thing is. Lets see what kind of impacts it has on people. Lets look at the money like the, the knowledge of the money thats put into the borrower is no. Like what i talked about this for years and years and years around the you guys, it is amazing. How do people actually know the, the, the, the, the dramatic increases of the budget spent towards the board. Okay. Well, its not, its not a to trillion level that fast. Can this done so the war and ive kind of style. Yeah. But i suppose what and perhaps staff can this individual meant that some cooperation sort. This was a way of, uh, importing prophets back to the homeland after the defeat of the United States in afghanistan. But given immigrants disproportionately want to work, why would corporations be a little being on case street against more immigrants and maintaining the defense contract as have a interest in this border miss . I suppose you might put it up and use that to be able to profit tier by all this border infrastructure. But generally, surely corporations will be saying, we want more immigrants because they need desperately workers to fill all the vacant, to add jobs in the United States. Yes, sir, yeah, so yours, so you will find, well on one hand, the lobbying like when a Homeland Security budget comes up, you will see all these contractors, theyll go in behind closed doors, there, lobby, you know, all the, keep all the appropriations committees and that sort of thing and you know, just see like you literally us chamber of commerce or you look at other, you know, sectors with interest. You know, youll, youll, youll see lobbying for more of the comprehensive integration reform that would include, you know, bringing in more people. Corporation depends on Legal Immigration right now. Right . Us right raise. Yeah. So you read some of them might be what might go under if they went to the legal immigrate a that could very well happen on the state of alabama when they got that law. Maybe it was 10 years ago, it was a sort of, you know, papers please law on which they were going to go after all and documented people in there in the state. I know, and theres some really good reporting of what happened after everyone left like lots of undocumented workers left to say, of alabama and the sort of stayed at last, the adverb business. An adver industry in alabama during that time. I mean, is joe biden being was 25000000000. 00 give away a public funds to enforce the border as a, as they call it the largest the ever versus trump, whos still every i mean, if hes allowed to run a given the us authorities attacking your leading Opposition Leader in the United States. The will is biting worse than trump as regards the treatment of those seeking a better life than seeking asylum was. Is there any the, the budget for 2023 . It was actually 29000000000. 29000000000. If you look at customs and Border Protection and immigration and customs enforcement, which this is the jump from approximately 25 is 16000000000. So 229000000000 was almost the amount that from spent in this thoughtful though the increase during the full 4 years and the trump administration. So looking at budget slight you look at, right, right. But i like to as a journalist, i like to look at theres rhetoric and then theres no hard numbers and budgets it was really happening. And if you look at whats been going on with the ministers in the budgets are increasing, theyre not taping down. If theyre not taking down even with all the critique of the, the big wall, the trunk was building during his administration. Theyre not taking down that wall. Is that they, they, we, i, i work for on, i look on the border kind of a, we put out a piece, looking at how divided into section is actually quote unquote, filling in the gaps of the law. In other words, continuing to the law, but not only that they, they, they but um they are looking at more putting more testing technology, Surveillance Technology on the border. And you can see that kind of increases a budget. And this kind of creation of a virtual or technological border thats happening under bite. And so its, its instead of the heavy rider at the, were going to stop people from crossing the border. That sort of thing that you got under some with, with disability of this law with bite and you have a lot less of that sort of rhetoric and i entered then rather it much more, theyre much more quiet about it. Theres much more of a humanitarian language in which its narrative, yet at the same time, the same exact border enforcement apparatus is in place. In fact, its getting bolstered and they are in the same sort of impacts are happening on people crossing the border and People Living in the borderlands. So what is the difference, right . Well, dog miller, ill tell you, well, biden says and brought to ill stop you that more from the co hosts of the board to chronicle broadcast and author of bill bridges, nobles. After this break, the museums are important for preserving our history so that it is a loss to future generations. But our physical museums, places themselves a relic of the past. This is one of the best museums in the world that come in touch in st. Petersburg, to help process the dresser here and i said he has met the 1950 to us so so i was returning to peaceful life with the newspapers didnt report ongoing mexicos and the ukranian saw, according to intelligence ukrainian nationalists, and the ukrainian intelligent ami said by romano, shell give each of which way to these atrocities for future was the best hold at the old school and what, but i senior to sell school. The way to do it would be like this, but it wont cause to do as a new one. Obviously the plaintiff was the head of the n, k v d, sabotage departments of the time. He was tasked with stopping the atrocities in ukraine for a good reason, general sort of blonde. It was very familiar with the situation. Pete had experience finding the nationalist before the war named, loveless to con, get a z, a do it to me or send me know, could i e, but it was, well thats funny. So give me the task. Was tremendously difficult, but suit up a lot. That was determined to complete his, he had personal accounts to settle with the ukrainian nationalist the welcome back to going underground. Im still here with the co host of the board, a chronicle of pulse costs and order of build bridges. Not was a journey to a World Without food is taught. Miller, i told you was saying i about one that the bible is a maybe worse drum when it comes to the pain and misery of the immigration situation on your southern board is biting, said the in january of this year i said congress, a comprehensive piece of legislation that would complete the oval. What is being a broken immigration system for a long time cracking down on ilLegal Immigration, strengthening, Legal Immigration, and then a slag off the g o. P for not helping him out on his big plans. I mean, thats what, thats what he says. And, you know, even says people come to america for a whole lot of reasons to seek new opportunity. And what is the strongest economy in the world . Cant blame them. One thing to do it. They flee oppression. Theres. Theres a great job im running for 2024 is normally nation. Thats a primaries. Well thats good. Can pay something. Right. Thats what it sounds like to me. How do you square . So . Yeah, you dont. I mean theres, you probably could go back and i have to go back to state as ive seen in here. Hillary clinton said the same thing once he was running a rock, obama saying, i mean, not exactly the same thing, but its, but its very similar things like we are going to bolster Legal Immigration and, and cut down on a Legal Immigration. And you know, those, those sorts of really does the same thing that just spends are the same sort of sentences that spin around and in a circle. And they just keep being repeated and repeated as, as, as i get again, in the budgets just keep going, getting higher and higher and higher and, and, and uh, it, it helps abide and how, you know, considerably that trump was right beforehand. Because the kind of media scrutiny that hes going to get on the border is considerably less. And given that it scrutiny that trunk got. But nothing really fun mentally has changed except for. I do want to say one thing that differentiates, i buy it from a trunk and im in a fairly major ways of rhetoric and the way that the rhetoric hands on and flames those, you know, different sort of groups are different constituencies. And particularly, were on the Us Mexico Border. We have a problem with melissa groups that will go down and control the border on their own. So in other words, we can expect far, right . Village is to increase. If trump is re elected the president and but loses arguably, but then given the did the media representations well effect corporate own and obviously they, they get their funds the perhaps through a network that involves some of these military companies. But given that connection then, between the sources of the immigration, as he said, does by and said they free oppression. And we know he was biden, was Vice President during the interventions and hazy libya so on under obama. Do you think it should be priced in when they do the interventions . I mean, the media should say as a lead the was, should say, obviously there will be this extra cost given the immigrants that will then come from afghanistan, libya, iraq, syria, i mean, going back further, rather than haiti, and venezuela to el salvador, nicaragua, you name it as well they, they dont match it. Its interesting to us look at how the media depicts people coming to the border and im talking mainly, you know, the corporate media. I guess its almost as if people come out of a complete vacuum, like nothing has happened before that for them to arrive at the United States border. And um, and it just, they getting out of just what you are mentioning. You know that the, unless interventions, i have the United States has had military interventions throughout latin america over the centuries, military interventions. And i would argue economic loans as well as sort of at the nomic um, neo liberal economic model that stand, strangle hold it, or clamped decline on places like water mol, on el salvador, in dominican republic. And you name it. And where us companies that will go and get used to labor in different places around latin america and the caribbean. Those sorts of that sort of quote unquote invasion, right . This, this sort of all companies can cross borders, how military is also can cross borders. And star wars see people go and pay people miserable. Re wages, take over, lands take over peoples water sources. Um, not to mention the climate aspects which we could talk about as well right here, joe. Less and then use room covering the border crisis as as its cooled. Hi, its a little note out as we approach the 2024 election. As we get closer to it, were going to hear more more about the border. I mean, strongly, they know that the journalists know, i mean, i know that a lot of them just go, its a dictator in latin america, thats why theyre playing them. But they also know all of these other ideas and the historical ideas behind it. Dont say as to why there are hundreds of thousands of people going across. Oh, theres exit, go border there, song every day. Certainly every lazy how to how i feel like theres a certain amount of talking ways that are regards it dated on lace in Central America. Its violence, right . You just say, oh, there is violence in Central America of the game problem. And thats, it is left at that. And then that leaves no sort of ability to, to analyze the situation from the perspective of us foreign policy, which is why you needs to happen. So its a win win for these Defense Companies because they can involve themselves and interventions in a setting up governments in latin america. And then they wind profits from the refugees fleeing the misery and violence at the other end. I tell me about as to who node um try because its as arizona, this is terrific. Good buddy. Confident you with shawn re me at matthew, you short on the 18th of may, a tribal member of the toner who no doubt try shot by the customs and Border Protection. Police. I mean away from that actual case. What, how emblematic is it of, uh, the whole idea of the idea of a border, in any case, the fact that tribal native americans are being shot by Border Police freely in their own country in the United States. Yeah. What is it . I mean, there are nice a, emilio rese jones is that the honor hers, but call by on borders where he is. The book is about how borders implicit and borders are violence. And thats the case of raymond, my ts on that awesome nation. And in that is located actually a Southern Arizona is the size of the state of connecticut. Anyone is wondering how big it was and it borders on mexico that you should keep in mind that the ancestral and its not on go deep into mexico. So its of the border, crossed them and, and was imposed upon awesome this. So the what happened . It was really my g s. Is one of the worst cases that, that because we have the Body Counseling has to be able to see it. Right. And you know, what we hear about internationally is a wonderful multi cultural consciousness is in the United States under the joe biden administration, celebrating diversity, all of these native americans and, you know, completely separate what anyone would say as regards emblematic killings, uh, by the board of forces, how does the military cultural Industrial Complex play into all of this . Whether it be hollywood and cultural ideas that are exported into naturally saying come here because look, everyones free and wonderful with wonderful standards of living in the United States. Versus also this, this, the United States that has these tribes because they do, you know, people one have heard of to own or them tribe. And so there was, there are, no, would you say so big and those are what land they last. Yeah, its, its, its the because the, the way the border is the big data culturally often away from the border is almost as, as, as if its empty space or then nobody lives there. Or its just a place where people are crossing or its a place where there is violence happening just because there and the fact that you know, Indigenous People live along the border. Of course they do like the, the, the board, the border itself was a call. You know, process the, the in position of the border was a prost many indigenous territories including the awesome. But basically this will be in the run up to 2024 election. Whats be being discussed, the issue of the concept of the us southern border. It will be hard to keep immigrants out presumably. So thats a, i mean thats what its trending towards. It doesnt seem like the ministration rhetorically. When they 1st took office, they were very much about over. Im going to stop this, were going to do this. Were going to stop the one more for a while and was like, some different, different little pilot policies have been shifted. Its almost the same and, and the rhetoric has now shifted to were going to a band and thats what trump was doing. Some more of it seems like the by a ministration is responding to this idea that, that they think that the Public Storage want more border florida vacation and will probably take, you know, that sort of line which, which will imply that kind of status quo of the border on, which means we keep bolstering it, which means the same companies are talking about will still be getting their contracts, which means well be heading towards even more technological borders. Whizzer bandwidths, cameras and drones, and theyre talking about usually these which are on man ground vehicles on the biometric systems that those sorts of the neck like having facial recognition cameras attached to drones are im and aerial vehicles. The ones that black are in the works or at least theyre, theyre experimenting with them. And so i can just see that, you know, as we go into 2024, i dont see any sort of radical home shift of like by the administration saying were going to do something drastically different on the border. I hope im wrong about that. I hope theres more pressure for them to reconsider some of their positions, but practically speaking. Thats but i think thats where i think they will go. John miller, thank you. And thats it for the show. Remember, were bringing you new episodes every saturday and monday until then. You can keep in touch 5 or less social media. If its not sense that in your country and that to a channel going on the ground serial number, theyll come to watch new and old episodes of going underground. So you said the more expensive. And im here to plan with you whatever you do. Do not watch my new show. Seriously. Why watch something thats so different. Several opinions that he wont get anywhere else. Welcome to please or do you have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. Choose your fax for you. Go ahead. I changed and whatever you do, dont want my show state main street because im probably going to make you uncomfortable. My show is called stretching time. But again, you probably dont wanna watch it because it might just change the way the of the 1960, the war had been over for some time. And the country was returning to a peaceful life, new factories and plans, a search and the best rates. But most of the citizens were on the com gangs wisdom, killing people in the ukrainian s. S. A big went unreported in the newspapers and on the radio, they were only rumors, according to investigative reports. These crimes were being committed by the o u. N. N g u p a people be nice ation that ukrainian nationalist on the ukrainian in search of tommy respectively for the future. So thats hold that, that was still a little bit of senior yourself store. The way it would be wise would be like this is all post to do at the menu on the various mobile a and the video will be on by