Im action or down. See and welcome back to going underground, broke out to go around the world from dubai in the u. A millions of ukrainians, a flight donasia and nations because of the nature of proxy. What was russia . Well, what about the millions displace . Because of us legend visions and countries like afghanistan, there are going to be in syria or interventions in central invest in america, im going underground recently, a former advisor to us authorities argued from old militarization of the board. And characterizing the frontier between mexico and the usa is the greatest board of crisis and us history. But told miller takes a different approach following the money. The all of the of build bridges dont, was a journey to a World Without board is joined to be not from tucson, arizona, to, thanks so much for coming on. As i was saying, it was taught benjamin, he came on the show and i did try that. Hes testified in congress about immigration, e claim, the us doesnt need that many more immigrants saw us off, but he certainly said, look, uh, you know, if it is full, thats what, thats what those one less immigration, natural thing about. Its just the law and the fact we, the United States needs more or fewer immigrants is by the, by all these are the limitations are coming and this is the biggest crisis. What do you think when i hear those, those sources sense of minutes and statements . I, i really think to, you know, theres any United States, theres pretty powerful forces that are still are a more of the certification, more and very as you know, i guess the, the term to use an anti immigrant. Right. But the, the, or against the idea of the people crossing in the United States and those, those sorts of arguments. The argument that you just laid out is, is definitely say coming straight from that. Thats what i nearly think of when i, when i hear those sorts of writing. So youd agree with them in saying that it is the was born of christ and you as well. And the crisis in us history just from a different perspective that though i hesitate to use the word crisis, the lower price is used quite a bit with a bar has almost become a little that cliche. This is a to say the least, the way that the, the word crisis is use a slap in years. Oh, theres people just coming over the border and its a k. I can add in and uh, we have to put the this down. But if i were to argue it was a crisis my, the, the perspective that i would take would be of that, of looking at it from another angle. Its more of a crisis. You could say a military is ation of crisis of the place that looks unrecognizable really from what it did 25 years ago or 30 years ago. If youre to follow the last 3 decades and how extensively the border is in florida by the militarized in that and really focusing on different cities and towns that are on the border. And some of the walls and plenty of towers, including the Border Patrol stations and theres some places on the border where do you see more of Border Patrol than you do . Local residents, right . And then the kind of consequences you see, and the consequences are there are many consequences that could be 2 really important ones. Wants is the, the kind of strategy that the, the, the, the border, the militarization, the border, how its been deployed. The strategies been through whats called prevention through the insurance and not to go into this too long. But the whole idea simply is to florida by certain areas of the border with that of course, people to circumvent and go through places like the arizona desert and i live in arizona and every year and this year is no exception. People crossing the border guy because they cant carry not water or not food. And the other part of it is local residency going to talk to local residents in arizona. And ill go to el paso, that is a barto at the new mexico to that orlando california. And you will hear people complaining about Border Patrol, set points. Youll hear people talking about um home invasions, uh, people at the Border Patrol coming into their homes. Yeah, i want to, i want to get into in particular, we also offer oh episode in south arizona. I know you are in arizona and a moment and i wanna get to uh, some denials of that from the Us Administration from joe biden. And the from the administrators that i have to see, youre saying this, im going to run quite a bit later. Youve given the 10s of billions of dollars of us public money is going to fund the weapons sent to ukraine. And were not giving Investment Advice here. But if anyone would you read your many books on the border . A tele, there, a particular come companies, Defense Companies, Arms Companies making masses of money out of this border in inverted commas. Border crisis, which companies are the ones the people should invest in . No, which are obviously making a lot of money out of this and what they say ill give me is echoed through mainstream media. Think tags, policy makers and academic institutions. Yeah, this is i think i could get some Investment Advice right here because of the border industry as a growing industry has been a growing industry, particularly since 9 elevens, particularly since 2001. And i have great hop right reports looking at the Different Companies that then that are the top product tiers of, of the top contractors we should say theyre getting but on the, on the Us Mexico Border particularly. But i want to stress that these contractors are, you know, not only unders um, Us Mexico Border, but around the world in different order areas. Most of them are our names that probably your viewers little find familiar like Lockheed Martin as one of a very big contract working with a fixed wing aircraft to the us Border Patrol. You have northrop grumman, which is another big military contractor who this company has died in contracts around biometrics or theyre developing a new biometric system known as hearts. And thats the future when youre looking at that sort of thing. Youre looking at Iris Recognition based. So recognition, so, you know, the sort of advanced database is that, you know, store peoples information, that sort of thing. And those are just 2 companies. Theres a lot of Different Company in their company. Theyre Smaller Companies of that. Okay. I mean, obviously the, obviously they, they will say they abide by the 4th amendment of the us constitution. And all of them would say theyre merely trying to make things a safer to enforce us law and u. S. Customs and Border Protection says, guided by the highest ethical and moral principles and exhibiting the highest level of professional responsibility. C. B, cbp. The costs of the board of protection for its employees drive every day to maintain the public trust and then still the confidence of the communities we serve and put checked. Thats what they say, thats a great public. Thats a great Public Relations line. Im sure thats, you know, that thats exactly what you would expect to hear from customs and Border Protection. You wouldnt expect them to talk about, you know, the different sorts of things that go on the part of the people dying coming across the border. But those that, of course, thats, thats, thats the, the line that, that we often receive directly through the causes of birth or attraction. But i want to say that, that sort of line goes way beyond that. Its in washington as well. I like you can see it embedded in terminology used around the bar like Border Security. Border security is a term thats used a very often. Yeah, its a word that if you start to unpack it and see what it really means and see does, does this border florida vacation, tremendous board or part of the case and create security for pete . No, definitely. After people crossing the border, subst insurance policy is about people being but its a more insecure or even more all situations. And definitely not necessarily secure for People Living along the border to who are complaining more and more of the resorted federal events. So what is the word security . What is this Border Security . I think there were there questions that, that needs to be asked about how the sort of relations line is. This are a terminology that goes on question and unpacked, and then subsequently they need to then unpack that terminology. Lets see what this Border Security thing is. Lets see what kind of impacts it has on people. Lets look at the money like the knowledge of the money thats put into the bar is neil. Like when i talked about this for years and years and years around the you guys, it is amazing. How do people actually know the, the, the, the, the dramatic increases the budgets but towards the board. Okay. Well, its not, its not a to trillion level that fast. Can this done to the war . And ive kind of styles yet, but i suppose what and perhaps staff can. This individual meant that some corporations thought this was a way of importing prophets back to the homeland after the defeat of the United States in afghanistan. But given immigrants disproportionately want to work, why would corporations be a little being on case street against more immigrants and maintaining the defense contract as have a interest in this border miss side . Suppose you might put it up and use that to be able to profit tier by all this border infrastructure. But generally, surely, corporations will be saying we want more immigrants because they need desperately workers to fill all the vacant to the jobs in the United States. Yes, sir. Yeah. So youll, so you will find, well, i wouldnt handle lobbying like when a Homeland Security budget comes up. You will see all these contractors, theyll go in behind closed doors or lobby, you know, all the key people, the appropriations committees and that sort of thing. And, you know, just see like if you look at the us chamber of commerce or you look at other, you know, sectors where the interest, you know, youll, youll, youll see lobbying for more of the comprehensive integration reform that would include, you know, bringing in more people corporation, it depends on Legal Immigration right now. Right . Us right raise. Yeah. So you read some of them might be what might go under if they went to the legal immigrate a that could very well happen on the state of alabama when it, without that law. Maybe it was 10 years ago. There was a sort of, you know, papers please law on which they were going to go after all and document if you go in there in the state and know, and theres some really good reporting of what happened after everyone left. Like lots of undocumented workers left to say of alabama and the sort of stayed at last, the adverb business, an adver industry in alabama, during that time. I mean, his job item being was 25000000000 dollar give away a public funds to enforce the border as a, as they call it the largest the ever versus trump, whos still every uh, i mean, if hes allowed to run a given the us authorities attacking your leading Opposition Leader in the United States, which is biting worse than trump as regards the treatment of those seeking a better life and seeking asylum was. Is there any the budget for 2023 . It was actually 29000000000. 29000000000. If you look at customs and Border Protection and immigration and customs enforcement, which this is the jump from approximately 2526000000000. So 229000000000 was almost the amount that trump spent in his thoughtful though the increase during the full 4 years. And the trump administration. So looking at budget slight you look at right, right. What i like to as a journalist, i like to look at theres rhetoric and then theres no hard numbers and budgets it was really happening. And if you look at whats been going on with the ministers in the budgets are increasing, theyre not taking down it, theyre not taking down even with all the critique of the, the big wall that from was building during his administration. Theyre not taking down that law, is that they, they, we, i, i work for on, i look on the border kind of a, we cut out a piece, looking at how to buy a new section is actually quote unquote, filling in the gaps of the law. In other words, continuing to the law, but not only that they, they, they but um they are looking at more putting more type of technology, Surveillance Technology on the border. And you can see that kind of increases a budget. And this kind of creation of a virtual or technological border thats happening under biden. So its, its instead of the heavy writer at the, were going to stop people from crossing the border. That sort of thing that you got under some with, with disability of this law with bite and you have a lot less of that sort of rhetoric, anti immigrant. Right. Or at much more, theyre much more quiet about it. Theres much more of a humanitarian language in which its narrated, yet at the same time, the same exact border enforcement apparatus is in place. In fact, its getting bolstered and they are in the same sort of impacts are happening on people crossing the border and People Living in the borderlands. So what is the difference, right . Well, dog miller, ill tell you, well, biden says and brought to ill stop you that more from the co hosts of the board to chronicle broadcast and author of bill bridges nobles. After this break, the, the 1950 to us as i was returning to peaceful life with the newspapers didnt report on going massacres and the ukrainian ssl, according to intelligence ukrainian nationalist and the ukranian in surgeon ami, said by romano, shall give each the joy to these atrocities for future the best sold at the senior to sell school knew which would be why it would be like this is of course well do a new one. Through the plaintiff was the head of the n t. V. The sabotage department at the time he was thomas was stopping the atrocities in ukraine for good reason, general sort of blonde. It was very familiar with the situation. Weve had experience finding the nationalist before the war, loveless to con, get a z, a do it to me and so didnt know, could i e, but it was, well thats funny. So give me the task was tremendously difficult, but suit up a lot that was determined to complete as you had personal accounts to settle with the ukrainian nationalist the welcome back to going under. Great. And im still here with the co host of the board. A chronicle of pulse costs got an order of build bridges. Not was a do i need to a World Without food is taught. Miller told us, saying i about one that the bible is a maybe worse drum when it comes to the pain and misery of the immigration situation on your southern board is biting, said the in january of this year, i said congress, a comprehensive piece of legislation that were completely oval. What is being a broken immigration system for a long time cracking down on the Legal Immigration, strengthening, Legal Immigration. And then ex, flagged off the g o. P for not helping him out on his big plans. I mean, thats what, thats what he says and, you know, even says the people come to america for a whole lot of reasons to seek new opportunity. And what is the strongest economy in the world . Cant blame them. One thing to do is they flee oppression. Theres, theres a great job im running for 20. 24 is normally nation. Thats a primaries. Well, thats good. Can base something, right. Thats what it sounds like to me. How do you square . So yeah, you dont. I mean, as you probably could go back and i have to go back to steve, as ive seen in here, Hillary Clinton said the same thing once he was running a rock, obama saying, i mean, not exactly the same thing, but its very similar things like we are going to bolster Legal Immigration and, and cut down on a Legal Immigration and, you know, those, those sorts of really does the same thing. That just stands are the same sort of sentences that spin around and in a circle. And they just keep being repeated and repeated as, as, as i get again and the budgets just keep going and getting higher and higher and higher and, and, uh it, it house abide and how, you know, considerably that trump was right beforehand. Because the kind of media scrutiny that hes going to get on the border is considerably less given that it scrutiny that top got. But nothing really fundamentally has changed except for. I do want to say one thing that differentiates i buy them from a trunk and im in a fairly major way is the rhetoric and the way that the rhetoric hands on and flames of, you know, different sort of groups or different constituencies. And particularly, were on the Us Mexico Border. We have a problem with that, melissa groups that will go down and control the border on their own. So in other words, we can expect far right . Villages to increase if trump is re elected the president and but news is arguably but then given the dead, the media representations well if that corporate own and obviously they, they get their funds that perhaps through a network that involves some of these military companies. But given the connection then between the sources of the immigration, as he said, as by and said, they free oppression. And we know he was biden, was Vice President during the dimensions and hazy libya. So on the under a bama, do you think it should be priced in when they do the interventions . I mean, the media should say, as a g lead the was, should say, obviously there will be this extra cost given the immigrants that will then come from afghanistan, libya, iraq, syria. I mean, going back further, rather than haiti that is way led to el salvador, nicaragua, you name it as well. They, they dont match it. Its interesting to us look at how the media depicts people coming to the border. And im talking mainly, you know, the Corporate Media is, its almost as a people come out of a complete vacuum like nothing has happened before that for them to arrive at the United States border. And um, and it just, they getting out of just what you are mentioning, you know that the, unless interventions, i have the United States has had military interventions throughout latin america, over centuries, military interventions. And i would argue economic loans as well as sort of after nomic um, neo liberal economic model that stand, strangle hold it or clamped upon on places like water mol, on el salvador, in dominican republic. And you name it. And where us companies that will go and get used to labor in different places around latin america and the caribbean. Those sorts of that sort of quote unquote invasion, right . This, this sort of, all companies can cross borders. How militarys also can cross borders. And star wars see people go and pay people miserable. Re wages, take over lands take over peoples water sources. Um, not so much as climate aspects which we could talk about as well right here, joe. Less and then use room covering the border crisis as, as its cold. High, its a little note out as we approach the 2024 election. Uh. As we get closer to it, were going to hear more more about the border. I mean, strongly, they know that the journalists know, i mean, i know that a lot of them just go, its a dictator in latin america, thats why theyre playing them. But they also know all of these other ideas and the historical ideas behind it. Dont say as to why there are hundreds of thousands of people going across. Oh, theres exit, go to their song every day. Actually, every lazy how and how i feel like theres a certain amount of talking ways that are regards it dated lace in Central America. Its violence, right . You just say, oh, there is violence in Central America or the game problem. And thats, it is left at that. And then that leaves no sort of ability to live, to analyze the situation from a perspective of us foreign policy, which in my view needs to happen. So its a win win for these Defense Companies because they can involve themselves and interventions and setting up governments in latin america. And then they wind profits from the refugees fleeing the misery and violence at the other end. I tell me about this to whom no doubt tried because it south arizona, this is terrific good, but he can for that he was shot re, me at math here. Short on the 18th of may, a tribal member of the toner, ohio down tribe. Shocked by the customs and Border Protection, police, i mean away from that actual case. What, how emblematic is it of, uh, the whole idea of the idea of a border. In any case, the fact that tribal native americans are being shot by Border Police really in their own country in the United States. Yeah. What is it . I mean, everybodys a, emilio rese jones. Is that the honor hers, but call by one borders where he is the book is about how borders implicit and borders are violence. And that the case of rain in my, to us on the bottom nation and in that is located actually a Southern Arizona is the size of the state of connecticut. Anyone is wondering how big it was and it borders on mexico that you should keep in mind that the ancestor landed. Its not on go deep and in mexico. So its a border cross them and, and was imposed upon awesome the. So the what happened . It was really my g s is one of the worst cases that, that because we have the Body Counseling has to be able to see it. Right. And you know, what we hear about internationally is that wonderful multi cultural countries. This is in the United States, under the job, i do ministration, celebrating diversity, all of these native americans and you know, completely separate to what anyone would say as regards emblematic killings, uh, by the board of forces. How does the military cultural Industrial Complex play into all of this . Whether it be hollywood and cultural ideas that are exported into naturally saying come here because look, everyones free and wonderful with wonderful standards of living in the United States versus also this. This is United States that has these tribes because they do, you know, people and have heard of to own or them tribe inside their zone, which you say is so big and goes of what land they last or yeah its, its, its the because the, the way the borders, the big data, culturally off in a weight in the order is almost as, as, as its empty space or that nobody lives there. Or its just a place where people are crossing or its a place where theres is violence happening just because there and the fact that, you know, Indigenous People live along the border. Of course they do like the, the, the board, the border itself was aconia and process the, the in position of the border was a prost many indigenous territories including the awesome. But basically this will be in the run up to 2024 election. Whats be being discussed, the issue of the concept of the us southern border. It will be hard to keep immigrants out presumably. So thats a, i mean thats what its trending towards. It doesnt seem like the ministration rhetorically, when its but 1st a got this, they were very much about or were going to stop this. Were going to do this. Were going to stop. Bill wont build one more for a while and was like, some different, different little pilot policies have been shifted. Its almost the same and, and the rhetoric has now shifted to were going to a band and thats what trump was doing. Some more of it seems like the by a ministration is responding to this idea that, that they think that the Public Storage want more border florida vacation and will probably take, you know, that sort of line which, which will imply that kind of status quote of the border on which means receipt, bolstering it, which means the same companies that are talking about will still be getting their contracts, which means well be heading towards even more technological borders with surveillance cameras and drones. And theyre talking about usually these lights are on man ground vehicles um and the biometric systems that those sorts of the, like having states are recognizing cameras attached to drones. On our im and aerial vehicles, the ones that black are in the works or at least theyre, theyre experimenting with them. And so i can just see that, you know, as we go into 2024, i dont see any sort of radical shift of like by the administration saying were going to do something drastically different on the border. I hope im wrong about that. I hope theres more pressure for them to reconsider some of their positions, but as we speaking thats but i think thats where i think they will go. John miller, thank you. And thats it for the show. Remember, were bringing you new episodes every saturday and monday until then you can give you touch 5 or less social media. If its not sense that in your country and add to our channel going on the go and see if you remember, theyll come to watch new and old episodes of going underground. So you said the, the, by the administration, a nature world are fascinated with soft power and rhetorical ships. Remember, ukraine when, when and ukraine is winning, now we hear russia is losing, and even brushes is last. Narrative manipulations do not change hard 3 hours. 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