167000000000. 00 in 2020 and was i was i forgot the story as been from mendez. The country a traded some for point 8000000000 rains with the bricks. Numbers in 2017 last year. That volume was up to a 150000000000 brands, which was a phenomenal increase. And now more than ever before, more countries. C brooks, as the solution to many of the issues that continue to play the global self. Im going to want to try to fly these enjoyments. As the world counts down the days until the brick summit in johannesburg were here at our table, bring you our special coverage of the years biggest political event, which is bringing together numerous leaders of the developing world. And just stay with us and back in just under 30 minutes before the day somebody stories by the public sentence. And im going to plan with you whatever you do. Do not watch my new show search like why watch something thats so different opinions that he wont get anywhere else. Welcome to please do the have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. Choose your fax for you. Go ahead, change and whatever you do, dont want my show state main street because im probably going to make you uncomfortable. My show is called stretching time, but again, you probably dont wanna watch it because it might just change the way in 6. Many of us around the world, know the stories of the most famous whistle blowers. We speak often about the lakes of julian assange, ed snowden, and Daniel Ellsberg to name just a few. But an important thing that we should never forget is that others are blowing the whistle every single day, all around the world, against waste, fraud, abuse, illegality, or threats to the Public Health or public safety. And they do it largely in anonymity that doesnt make it any less important. In fact, i would argue that it is more important to blow the whistle at the local level where we spend most of our life. Our next guest is the perfect example of blowing whistle in relative obscurity, where the authorities treat themselves into thinking that they can get away with clamping down on truth tellers. Im john kerry. Ok. Welcome to the whistle blowers the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 a georgina how ford hall joining the case, royal navy upon graduation from school and worked in Human Resources before leaving to raise a family. She later return to spend 3 years in Financial Services before moving to the department of works and pensions, where she was, the leadership and Performance Management specialist. She became the 1st internal Human Resources leadership and Development Consultant there working for the chief of staff in 2008. She went into the non Profit Sector as the chief executive officer of a charity in early june, 2014. She was surprised at her home when a police van drove up while she was in her kitchen preparing lunch, 7 armed officers wearing stabbed vests and carrying guns, forced their way into her cottage and arrested her. She was charged with handling stolen documents and was taken to a Police Station for questioning. What was the catalyst for this action . Georgina had exposed bullying and systematic abuse that her son school, which was one of the countrys most famous military schools. She and her husband had sent their 11 year old son to the duke of Yorks Royal Military School because it claimed to instill military values and its students. Instead, it was a place of punishment, abuse, and bullying beyond the boundaries of decency. And more was the blowing was the follow that was in the Charity Sector in the n, georgina how for the whole one, her various legal cases. But that has not stopped the struggle. Its the life of a whistle blower. Even one whose work might be for the most part under the radar. Georgina, how for hall . Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for joining us. Absolute pleasure. John. It is lovely to meet you. Id like to start at the beginning. You were a wife and a mother going about your business, like any normal person, you were working in taking care of your family and then one day you were in your kitchen making lunch and your home was rated by the authorities. Tell us about that. Why did that happen, and what was your reaction as well . Its all possible much bigger story. Ive been given some information that i provided to the lord and 1st one in the u. K. And they gave it back to me and told me to look after it. And that information was all about child abuse in the school. And i didnt touch the expect to have my house rated by 7 Police Officers were in the riot gear where the helmets, i suppose thats polite. Perhaps they should have taken off their shoes as well, but they will consent. The ty has been handling the stone and dont humans, the die has been inappropriate with people states. Were not to fight to like try to do is spinning to major in, pass it to the people who have the steps that you powers or 13 will want to do something to stop the abuse of children. And that just really lets me into this journey is just, its about just just isnt it . And they take the wrong movement of the wrong day. I didnt, i didnt know what happened, but i just, so im not putting up with this. And the Police Officers concerned i, i said at the time in the same kind of time im talking to you, this is a korea defining moment for you guys. And it was i ended up sitting, facing them there, and just a general herrings. Im seeing how, i think fundamentally days some people have been missed directed, but theyre gonna pay for it for the hold of the rest of their career and their lives. Probably. In the meantime, none of the people involved in abusing children and covering it up. None of them, its appropriate help to attempt. Its been hushed up. People have been swept away. The x rays are probably being fed sales in some cases. This is mitchell receipt. Its happening to no impact. But im told that the Police Investigation is ongoing. I dont suppose this much alacrity behind it. These are the still appropriate across most countries, that these are just children. Everythings historic. Laughter has happened and weve got biggest things to do. What are the evidence will be easier to obtain, substantiate . And you can ignore for us, but you know how difficult the, you know, how high the bar is, how you have to get your witness to be able to speak. And im children, the notoriously, not listen to. So i, i suppose the me, this whole issue around with the blowing is about access to justice and about ensuring that no matter who you are, how old you are, where you live, what your background is. You are not outside of that system that is open to everybody and that there are people who like actual to ensure that you are listen to. And if youre speaking of, ive asked about other people that you will listen to that off. So everybody is protected. We need a safety that for every citizen, not just in the cape around the world. How long did this drag out . Presumably, the authorities try to intimidate you by charging you with stealing some sort of documents. What was that all about . And how is it finally resolved . You know, lots of time is going by. This will happen for me in 20, in june 2014. Fresh. Just to just stay for the 6th of june, 2014. So you can see that its only 10 years. Its 9 years ago, um and i tend to try and focus on the upside of it. But the action was taken that the particular school this relates to the to give you up for a military school. And in kent, im sure its probably one of the safest schools on in the world now. But it took a parent because the people who, who were working in the school, who had tried refreshed aside. But many of them didnt try because they were too afraid of what was happened to them. I dont think hun brave role than anybody else to be quite honest with you. Just called me perhaps. As a time when i felt i suppose incense enough to want to do something about it. And so as for my journey yet its still, its still going on really because then we will live with the legacies before this happened. But what i would say is it really made me recognize that most people are good. Most people are not or full of many people get caught up in these conspiracies and cover ups and someone know because they set out to do it. But they just, we think its jumped into a system and im sure when you think back to your experience, john, that most of the people around you probably didnt think you were doing the wrong thing. But they, you might have been asked in a different way. And im sure lots of people look at me and say you could have done a different way, which is why now were nice to advise in people. I help them to avoid some of the bad traps that are out there and keep themselves safe. Georgina, after your whistle blowing experience, you went on to found the group whistle blowers, u. K. Tell us about whistle blowers, u k. And the work that youre doing there. What do you focus on . Well, it was founded by groups of peaceful groups of us. Some where was the blows up as a piece of what twist with supplies and then senior positions. And it was about helping to facilitate access to justice. Im wondering if hes a bit public press to just dont people going notes and get digging themselves into holes and getting themselves into trouble. Um, it was all about creasing a community when nobody would have to walk this, letting me road alone. Because we do stay on our website, you know, alone, you know, cuz im sure we, we just dont have enough. So that used to help everybody. But we do try. And its a, in, in our organizations, ideas were around identifying the commonality, developing a consensus about what legislation needs to the site to create a safe and a level playing field. Everybody who speaks up and we do the am attends of perhaps collections, you know, didnt just wake up when, when it goes, thats what were going to do. So it looked like it should have been developed, take prepared, have time, a more know people joined us and you know, i would train now is go hundreds of people on it and some get off and some get back on again, some, some change direction altogether. But some dimensions setting those principles that we, we want to help provide practical supports help and information for whats the blow is to do that weve got a free, confidential reporting platform. So then they even have to speak to anyone if they just want to test the waters. Weve got a great culture of dedicated caseworkers to understand the sexes and also have developed real counseling skills that give people that reassurance. It came back to. They didnt feel the 9 that they feel listen to the still understood and we take you the paste. They want to get to the list of low wants to go out. And we dont judge. Because everyone makes mistakes. No, every list of glory is a good test and lets face it, you know, good people do bad things about people take good things and some, you know, so im just all mixed up in both. But we have developed the most amazing team as lloyd is led by in mitchell, and he was in cool represent you really complex case probe, i know, and its taking him months supported by one of our junior training barristers. All of this is what weve built, the community that respect, some responds to each other. No time we didnt touch. Im sure youve heard about it in the criticisms, but we didnt touch most people. We just ask people to come to the if they come. Because if we didnt, we dont have any fund is we dont have regular funding. The government dont give us money. We all the only not for profit organization. We dont share our c. So we, we struggles the funding and we do the best that we can do is what we thoughts. But we try to prepare with suppliers and, and we try to work with people to keep them. Mentally disappeared, emotionally, strong, unable to go through. The process that can take me is and change is how people think and often changes lives. But well say try and work with the families as well. Keeping everybody together, keeping the support network in place. And being part of it i took about was the basic has Assembly Said people come on, they come off, they get on the golf, but were always there. And we remember the people at times behaving different ways because they distressed. And there was this and you know, when you didnt know what your future is having had to or planned out. This is a massive shops of people. Back to the substitute list of place. She takes really about support information and help and being a family weve got and im going to give him a good shouts out cuz i want you to interview him the amazing night to lieutenant hes just a fabulous guy. And hes a whistle by himself and hes been absolutely to hell and back. But hes now leading up here to pay support and designing a really for the team process. And. And the program that will give all was the blow. Isnt anybody else who wants it . Even more support and confidence in that theyll just speaching up within a group that to their, to their employer or to an Organization Building takes ability building a culture that we want to see from the inside out. Were trying to move the, what we want other people to take can we dont just talk to, to make sense to me, get it wrong. Hands with a f, as you know, updating and trying to improve things, listening to a feedback. And on top of size, youve asked me what we do now is just given me, youve given me the ability to, of all the things i love talking about. So we have ways, we run events, we run conferences, we have month twice, monthly meetings, and we talk about topical things. We get people writing blogs, we get people involved in developing events because this isnt about me. Im really just the math piece for it. But its about all of those pique, them what they the richness of their experience and how thats driving the changes. And as a result of our teaching, the is, you know, i most say the director strategy and policy to the old policy problem at triggers. Whistle blowing. Now theres a huge team of us now working around the phase, calling ontario. But we have written were developed richardson, the bill that they trust is on, and its doing through a problem and reprice. Thats called a protection of wistful blank bill. Its going to transform the way we think about whistle blowing. And on top of that, weve now started to build a global team and globally alliance of people who are equally concerns. They might be in cios. They might be list as low as they might be. You know, the professionals in Different Countries because we have this on vision and another one of our colleagues iris to not just a very in greece, came up with this brilliant tongue a global treaty. But why not . So were trying to develop what that will look like a new site, as many people as possible to get involved and put their voice into this. Georgina, thanks for being with us. Stay with us. We are speaking with british whistleblower georgina how ford hall. After the break, were going to talk about her whistle blowing in the Charity Sector in the u. K. And the group she founded to help countless other whistle blowers. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. A robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. Were so shorter to conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. We should be very careful about our personal intelligence. The point obviously is to trace a truck rather than to the various jobs. I mean with the Artificial Intelligence we have summoning the theme and the robot must protect this phone. Existence was on the the welcome back to the whistle blowers. Im john curiosity. We were speaking with british whistleblower georgina health hall. She has blown the whistle against wrong doing multi full times 1st with regard to bullying and her sons, military school and next in a Non Profit Charity georgina, thanks again for being with us. Its great. Im really excited, almost no whistle blowers sets out to be a whistle blower. Most of us are professionals who are just going about our normal lives. But then you see evidence of waste, fraud abuse or illegality. And you feel compelled to Say Something in the end. Many of us either walk away from our careers and focus on whistle blowing, or were thrown into the life of a whistleblower. Youve embraced whistle blowing and you have helped countless other whistle blowers who have followed you. Tell us about that. Well, im really, again, im really can to i as, as a full right. Tell professional, im upset please evaluation and you know, setting something out and what do we do . So we have, we have a board of directors, we have a associate membership. I wish i looked up the numbers before i talked to you, but over a 100 and we rely on those people to give us all feedback. But in terms of so the more easy, measurable. So we receive over 3000. 00 emails and telephone calls every yeah we, we have at least on average an it guy goes to st. J for, for him doing all the, you know, back room stuff and we get on average 3 inquiries a week that comes through the r n pays on them parliament. All that demonstrates that people trust is we get, we get referrals from a house, which is one of the government bodies that do a lot of attrition. We get recommendations for another law firms. We get recommendations from around the world just before us b. I was speaking to you today. I was doing an interview for the telling government with the terms. Nice a, as i say, what weve done is weve said roses and be a full stitched perfect. Lets keep moving with it because its too easy. Stuck in something and say, this is what were going to do and which is going to do that. But when we recognize its not working, all the landscape is shifted. Weve been at child and weve decided to respond to it and not criticize it. The take towards the best ideas that the best time, and that was, i think, well, its not cool to the table family, it changes people want to be there and theyll say, well, would it be done in 5 years . I suppose we did a lot more than people have done in 15 or 20 or even says he is in 10 going from looking at legislation. We had demonstrating why it doesnt look. Im proposing something it does. Because if you just wrap it, its easy for politicians, they built millions of other things that doing make it easy, make it something they can understand and demonstrate how its going to benefit of the citizens. I think thats been the strength of what were doing. We dont criticize, we always look for solution, take that and then and discuss it. I know that in your role as the founder of whistle blowers, u. K, that you regularly advised businesses, members of parliament and regulatory bodies on whistle blowing legislation. Ive done the same thing through the Excellent Organization blueprint for free speech, which is based in australia. Its been my experience that many countries are very desirous of draft whistleblower protection legislation. But then it becomes very hard to actually get that legislation passed into law. Tell me about your own experience with legislation. Whats the reception been like in the u. K. We are very creative about the things that we do and weve, weve, weve puts in place things like 10 plates to make things easier and we all going to loan tonight. Its very as a, as a to our handbook. But again, that will be free to everybody, to, to give them an idea of how so we supply not just in the paper, globally low, we have put in a section for how the lower the name it works in the u. K. 3, show the people them full into all of those back traps, you know, running out of time using the wrong language. Dont taking the right books is, is those fundamental basics is really hard to do when youre not an expert in the area. And youll say probably very stressed on time constraints. So we, we looked at uh tons, think of all the words, not list my words, which is not like me. We, we look at. Yeah, quite so i know youre locked in for a good reason that so we look at getting people to maps the chronology apps, we get them to be clear. We support them in that process and provide the critical friendship. And then we try and do something beyond that, which is a psychological support and all of our people, it is a trained and it will, they already have it naturally in the bucket aids really. But we say things obsessed about things, things, but tonight treat you wish to bring my could show and show the balance this with your personal life. Maintain your relationships with your partners, your family, your friends. Didnt go into a cell because the one important thing use or the most important thing is that there is a life after with loving. So you need to keep your mental physical, Psychological Health really, really high. And if you, if you dont do that, you will say from the rest, if you end up in quotes or any other form of legal process, it makes you less able to type in more isolated the one. The one thing ive seen in the most successful was the plane cases ive, ive personally been involved in is that theres a really strong ground thing of the west supply in this family, all their relationships and their friendships. And that keeps people going to whatever happens. Youve got to remember that you have a life as to this. Ready is not paid to last breath and i didnt think submit to us, and thats why im able to continue with my life around all of this just so were really hard on it. Im very committed to it by 10, neglect the people that i love in the process of making this life. And i strongly believe having looked at this with colleagues around the world, but there is a slice of abuse which is in british shore. European is Just International because its very unusual as a new pace. The only one pests knows. Usually lots of people know about this. They might know who registered it or recognized where the wrong doing is or with a consent. So when you Start Talking with other people now, is there any way you just saw just the resupply, to actually make it full and blows the whistle that it seems that this like setting up in a long bell in a pulling the ripped court. Im gone for the investigating the, the consent most people know about the county. We investigate you because i think that somewhere in our own consciousness thats about triggering other peoples moral failures. Ringback other save us and we shiny and affect by not doing something themselves with shining lights on that. And i dont know about this on the psychotherapists, but im sure that there are all these other things that go in. And people says, you can investigate this as a list of law. Youre the one who gets put through all these purchases. Youre the one whos but tool, the cost of lawyers and inconvenience and the impacts of family and lifestyle. And then people take that choice that may, i might get a, keep going because i comp cnn to this. So i cant see myself recovering. So they leave the organization is like, rob pulls up the flag again. This is the cycle, but what happens because its a cycle is the next person come as long as the, hey, look at the data, looked into the image of the room and it will stop the game. And you see this happening organizations over and over again, where most of them past 9. Well, the wont pass the spoken out, but its supposed to keep going to find themselves heading towards the exit. And thats what weve got to stop tense on this way of thinking. And it isnt unique 12, i know the in america, they have brilliant organizations, governments accountability pro, a project. And thats the whistle going send to the relevance of them. And i just love working with them because it reinforces that where all right. And if were all right, government to go talk to us and weve been lucky to be able to to was send it to grouse these office over in the states as well. I genuinely think that the landscape has changed, that the me basic is different. A new for whatever reason is it ukraine or the whole rector of things or the levels and codes which of course, what about who is it . You know, all of this is may just realized, the whistle blows, all the 1st line of defense, it gets crime correction and help her up. And if we dont listen to them, were waiting for the next cobit, were waiting for the next to prostitute somewhere else. If we listen, marys, we are going to all suffer georgina how for the hall. Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you to our viewers for watching the great greek philosopher. Plato once said that honesty is for the most part less profitable. Send this honestly for the era for last, for i will bucker corrected that for us millennial later when he said quote, the greatest truth is on is the and the greatest false. It is, dishonesty he was right. Be honest. Do the right thing. Im drawn to reaku and using watching the whistle blowers, thanks for joining us until next time. 2 the neutrality is one of the most flexible concepts and International Relations that you can imagine, which is why its so useful. But why it is so inherently different to the difficult to grasp so that the chances we have is the country subpoenaed with the meaning that is useful to them . And hopefully to, to all this because i do, i think its core. It means im not taking this type of either of the completely, the new share receives fighter jets from nearby partner countries. Malia and regina fall. So defend itself against the potential attacks from other regional powers that wants to reinstate new shares. The opposed to president s locals in virginia also see the hand of former colonial power friends in the escalating tension. We know that it is from that is defined as eco a story and therefore we are fighting to be liberated. In any case case, what is called imperial uganda and authorities slammed the world bank as a whole, all Financial Aid to their country over a controversial anti l. G. B t law. The head of the trains National Security service brags about committing attacks against russia that claims the line