A belligerent spain holland . Its only britain, the novice grabbing grain and what are the real mechanisms of play when it comes to the neo liberal global food system . Well, this is the un secretary general in nature. The nation lead is so silent on us ok. Patient of syria is which fields claim the black Sea Green Initiative was crucial to saving the poor of africa and around them. Its always the founder and executive director of the Oakland Institute, which is just reported on i m. F. World Bank Collusion in the coming up of ukraines global food supply system. Shes previously testified before, but the us congress and the u. N. G joins me now from nairobi. Can you thank you so much for coming on. I mean, there wasnt much coverage of the advert. Good russia summit to last week. So perhaps it was easier to understand the nature of nations from big Corporate Media that the black Sea Green Initiative killed by pollutant is going to stop africa. Why is that . That was your policy director, claiming its deceitful into the un is become a business, broke over agribusiness at corporations in violation of its violent use as regards this black Sea Green Initiative. Well, 1st of all, thank you for having me out. If you will, listening to the hype in the west and media, one would think that the black Sea Green Initiative is were going to prevent famines and to solve the global foot crisis by enabling experts of fluid from ukraine to developing countries, food and secure countries, especially in the africa, the to those that the United Nation state is itself point out that less than 3 percent of the commodities with commodities export from ukraine have actually gone to a food and secure countries. Most of the exports are headed to the european union. Spain is the largest recipient and the 2nd is china. So this has nothing to do with feeding the floor and showing Food Security or preventing silence. This is really about ensuring that the prophets of those who control land in ukraine and what controlling these food explodes continue to solar. Well, hes a old, a journalist, cnn, bbc, all the usual suspect theyre idiots. I mean, theyre literally being saying, its this initiative to help the board of africa. Well, the question is really the figures from the United Nations, this is not about they would against always, this is really about the United Nation speakers, which are clearly demonstrating that as off just last week or so, only 3 percent of the food commodities exported from ukraine. Under this initiative have gone to low income countries. So i dont know if the gentlemen still being idiotic or just being callous and being lazy at the at best or perhaps now, how do you characterize the ukraines farm land and how the Food Industry works in ukraine . Because the, your recent report seems to suggest a over many years, really, the high american will bank to, in the institutions along with profit tearing Big Companies have carved the whole of your bread box basket up, especially after the 2 in 2014, when a parent visa lensky was elected in a way to say that were going to stop privatization. The privatization is, is the process now . Well, thats a very important point that you just made. Most of the work as not realize that under the foreign debt, ukraine has gone to see the structural adjustment programs which have been dictated by the rest and Financial Institutions such as e b r. Do you think itll be in band for Reconstruction Development needing to privatization and liberalization . And one of the big changes that have been implemented much against the will of the ukraine and people protest of academic, civil society. And farmers is the land reform which was implemented in 2020, which creates a land back, basically allows the sale of agricultural labs. So a new report that you refer to water in test is really about the take over of that you create in Agricultural Land. And it exposed at the producers were exporting commodities from ukraine today. Naturally, a large agribusinesses visa or the gods who are associated with europe and, and not the american Financial Institutions, in particular, the european back for reconstruction and development as well as the word back. Yeah, but i mean, van god, bn b, goldman sachs, noise over in wealth fund. The im sure they will deny any wrong doing as theyre activated by the id and, and will bank their, their unit to feed the world as they presented. Well, when you look, when you look at our research, its actually demonstrates that nearly 20 percent of your grants arable land. Were talking book 99000000 heck, days of land after the controller, but all the gods and the west and financial interest. These up, the dominantly north american and european and these are the people who are not controlling the line. The largest land holder is the only gods are getting financial loans from best and financial in trust. How youre talking about us pension funds, youre talking about foundation endowments, being invested in the sun investing, and advocates for land in ukraine through private equity funds. So just be etc. Okay, still which the well bank and say look, we gave 5540000. 00 to support small farm is in ukraine. I know thats the thats the price of a sort of house in central london. Maybe. But they did give money to Small Farmers and ukraine when you look at the kind of slow instead of being made, but more important, the policies that have been generated. So you already had a detriment in your crane, which has gone through structural adjustment loans, which has led to the privatization which has led to uh, further liberalization. And now we do plan being more under depth as the reconstruction starts, whenever the war ends before the liberalization. So it will be the word back. It will be the i a see the probably with a lending off the world bank. It will be id dictating policies, which will be further liberalize is liberalizing different sectors, especially the agricultural sector. What we dont recognize that one did talking about Food Security. Im, its russian invasion of ukraine. It is not really about Food Security of the rest of the work because the exports, even though that id be allowed from the train that have to do with profiteering the lodge agribusinesses, which are really in the control of north american and europe in financial interest of course crystelina georgie ever they had a v i m f. We took over from christine the god who was found guilty of negligence in france and didnt have to serve a year sentence, a general sentence. She says, the priority of the i m f will be to help minimize the risk of crisis and build a stronger building, a stronger economies across the globe. The globe best from the world bank age. A bank of the form of mascot seo said to create a world free from poverty on a livable planet. How does that square of youve just said about the im, if it will bank the to washington base institutions . Well, whats happening right now is that you have further consolidation of man which is controlled about on the gods, which is controlled by western financial interest. The loans, the support is not going through the Small Farmers and ukraine and a mix. This economic distress, we will see more and more consolidation as these farmers are not being supported. We have to understand that the protests that happened against the 2020 land reform and the law was implemented. Im at school with when people could not protest the civil society, the academics, the farm was in, you print a basically demanding and calling for a different agricultural model which instead of further consolidation of land but only got san lodge. Agribusinesses is really about creating an Agricultural Policy which would work in favor of the Small Farmers, a new printer. Now that is not in the interest of the i a mass of the world bank or the i of see it is really about supporting private equity funds such as n c h in the United States, where uh, foundations. And as i said before, university and other endowments investing in so theres basically a circus going on last week for you and fluid system, some and sponsored by nestle, rockefeller bear bill gates will the can on the floor and you think they probably did. They discuss with they have discussed the kinds of issues raised in your reports or from a different angle. Well, i think we have to see who was at the conference. As you say it is, there it is nestle, theyre not in the business of statesmanship. Theyre not in the business of solving what is kind of been the business of increasing the profits they pay and the Auto Real Estate shareholders and increasing the profits. And this is why its important to understand when we talk about food crisis, because of the invasion of few pre whos really benefiting the food prices went up because of the speculation of the green markets. So even among the, you know, im, its the war, the kind of exports we have seen from your brain a pretty high. So its a mit, its a lie which has been taught to do the work. As those who are in the business of active business continue to get rich at the expense of the poor. This is a double whammy for the ukrainian farmers while they are fighting for they from then while they are fighting for the land. The land has been stolen away and taken away by possible all the gods and rest and financial interest. Many of said the lensky is a puppet of all the gods and, and western capital, with the fact that he reinstated the structural adjustment privatization, austerity against the opposition, which it goes now is banned in in ukraine elections or may well be banned. For next year, i mean is this evidence that zalinski is a pop up that he has re introduced the structural adjustment . Or is it that the, you know, culturally the way they persuade the countries to about you . Integration is, look, you need to reform your processes and this is the way forward and then youll be all happy. Like with the newer, i think its very important to look at the history of the institution such as a low band and the i m. S. Theres nothing global about them. The state of claim is 2 and paul, at the very often they paul policies work against the poor and they really didnt come about ending the poor and not ending the apology. You look at the continent of africa, which went through structural adjustment programs. So you look at asian and latin american countries. Structure adjustment programs has been about decimating the livelihoods of the poor decimating social services when both string, the interest of the corporations. This is what the liberalization agenda looks like. So i think we have to learn from history and see what the check a cost of these Financial Institutions as being. So they are in the business of carving of countries like estimating livelihoods and creating for the fall ships for the pool in case of your brain, we have seen already what the structure and adjustment programs are doing. The increasing fall with the, the taking of his social services. So youre going to see more liberalization, more privatization, which is not going to look in the favor of people. It is really about working in the favor of corporations. And as wisdom corporations control more and more of Agricultural Land agribusinesses, we know what these policies are about. I mean clearly its uh the one uh raja through ukraine is a place to make masses of money for companies. But uh the, the food money system. Dimension of this doesnt seem to really be talked about. So in parts ukraine is a fight for these big Agribusiness Companies as well. I mean, is it corruption the way to actually see as part of the war, what ukraine is called, the bread foster, c r a. So who controls the Agricultural Land and ukraine uh, does become a major player in the food markets. This again is no different from the kind of land rush and the land grabs. We have seen across the world, especially since 2008, 2009. Im. Its the high foot price crisis. Im, its the financial crisis. So in terms of ukraine, as we see, the landing consolidated and controlled by ukrainian only got what do they indebted to west and Financial Institutions . We see the wisdom actors coming into the play in terms of controlling agriculture. And then we see the 2020 land reform act get into play and creating land bands. We agriculture land is available for same way. We see no support for the Small Farmers and ukraine. We seek nomic distress going. We know how things were kept. Small farmers would be driven out and you will see consolidation of that. Weve seen this happen in the United States of america. We have seen this around the was a small pharmacy to a crucial for food, secure to be of countries are being driven away. And the culture of agriculture is lost and this is really about who controls the food supply under control is agriculture, land to make money, and not to see the what i dont know how to tell. Ill stop you. The more from the founder and executive director of the Oakland Institute after this break, the or the cranes much more over 5 to count her offensive stalls. Western leaders have made a remarkable rhetorical tipton binding says, proof of his already lost board. The secretary of state lincoln says russia has lost their narrative because the form of pseudo reality because making the claim ukraine is windy is untenable. The the welcome back to going underground. Im still here with im around the middle founder and executive director of the Oakland Institute on board chair of ben. Jerrys underwater, we were talking about this continuing structural adjustment, ideological basis of life being pushed from the United States. I thought there was a pause in it after the global financial, or has the Chinese School at western economic crisis. Was it suddenly come back again on the agenda, the idea of privatization a defacto help, a few oligarchs in the United States anyway, as well. I think in terms of capitalism and in terms of both string, the profit off of the rich, that model has never gone away because showed up in different ways whether it was to economic globalization. Whether we have seen it through structural adjustment programs, which was about increasing the profits of corporations, even if it causes cd, a hardship to the majority of the people we have seen into the World Bank Policies of doing business rankings, which was about ranking countries. And what they like to do business with uh, you know, a country which was implementing labor laws, environmental regulations would get a, you know, bad business ranking. Whereas a country that was opening itself and offering all kind of incentives to corporations, get a good ranking. So its, if you look at the history, this has simply a place for increasing the profits of corporations. And after structural adjustment programs, we started doing business rankings. After doing business rankings were ended and all we are seeing be ready business project of the world bank. So to out there, these policies and programs and projects be put in place by wisdom, capitalist, really, to support wisdom corporations and foreign corporations, even at the lice and livelihoods of to put in developing countries. People can read that report on the bizarre ranking system. One which country to do business on your uh website. But uh for those that i thought they were going to make a load of cash out of a Great Initiative booting this thing. Rush is just gonna send the grain separately outside of their, their systems will, can be done. Then to destroy the i, m f, and well back because the for you is a groups like yours and, and institutions and, and g os that and what i lied to the military Industrial Complex of said they all guilty of starving millions, hundreds of millions of men women and children, what can be done, there doesnt seem to be any democratic accountability available. It is thats an excellent questions for almost 2025 years ago. There was a very popular call from the developing world, especially from africa saying 50 is in the International Monetary fund, world bank, which will create it at the end of the 2nd world war us. 3rd, rebuilding walked on economies of the west. Theres nothing global about them. You have a method that head comes from europe. You have uh, was back with a head comes from the United States. You have these countries in the west that have on equal control over policies that come out of these institutions. And to continue to take over the economies of the tug was and basically implement extractive policies which are about steaming and pillaging the nature of the environment in the communities and implementing policies. Which in democracy in these countries, which establishing the lens which are not of the people by the people for the people, but theyre really for the wisdom corporations. So what do we do with these institutions . We need to hold them accountable, or an institution like the was bank, if it was really a bank, human, its boss, and the amount of damage it just because it would no longer be operating. It is failed in a state admission of ending poverty. So i think it is absolutely important that internationally we are asking what these institutions us to doing and we need to hold them accountable. This band should have gone out of business, given the kind of, uh, you know, damage it has caused around the world. It has given bad loans which have led to structural adjustment programs. These bad loans have been given very often to dictators where the poor people are having to pay back for them. So its no real good size as to what should happen to these institutions, as well as to the part of the governments which basically wage wars. So corporations can continue to get rich. Well, as i said, the age a banker, the head of the world bank b was nominated by joe biden. News on, on to biden, was paid by m can a, which is a alliance with mastercard. Is previous employ bite and seems to have confidence in him. Nevertheless, but given that your policy director has said how deceitful the United Nations has become. Because after all, and junior gutierrez is very quick to talk about this grading deal, being important, given Vladimir Putin says, oh, well, were open to a new one. Is it impossible for russia to organize . Im kind of greenville in, during this war, that will not end up being a part of agribusiness corporations in the west, especially maybe if the u. N. Is involved. What, what, what is frederick miss . How your policy director go to against this you and i mean its a paula, is it together with western Bank Financial is usually you and its supporting large food trading companies, all the gods and the lender. Them challenges is a staying export business in grow profits despite the cottage of wor, as well. This is all, its really about being a v as the United Nations, as the policy pink time, we look at the facts and instead of pulling the the c panel. Well, it does appallingly deceitful because if you have United Nation saying that this initiative is important to prevent famines and allow export of food commodities to countries which are food insecure, which are in need. But you have to look at the fact that despite what the United Nation says its own data, not all data but United Nations data says, but only 3 percent of the food commodities that id spoke to from your printer went to food in secure countries, off the countries which had any kind of food shortages, they are going predominantly to european union. And the 2nd one is china and the referred. There are a few institutions like your one like oaks from actually as said similar things. Whats it like running and running your Oakland Institute given the way the world bank and i m f is able to use the funding for n g os to presume the rubbish, everything you say . Well actually what we do is be the issue there lies there. So use to kind of blowing smoke into the eyes of people. It is the work of institutions like the Oakland Institute to basically say that and pro has no new clothes. This is the word by which has consistent ugly, lied deck into some kids. And suddenly we think it isnt the business of protecting the poor and improving for the security. Lets not forget, this is the same institution which dont ask and countries which will fold explore, holding countries into food importing countries. So given its history and the evidence that exist, given the data that comes from the United Nations itself, we have fooling ourselves and choosing to remain ignorant. Yep. Okay. Funding development, Development Economics developments that is the University Educational institutions throughout the world. Theyre, theyre funding people. So that they can proudly talk about wanting to solve world hunger and will be pirating this blacks the green initiative. Nonsense. Where is your voice presumably is not heard on the Mainstream Media . Well, i think this is really whats called tool washing. I mean, i think the burden of proof is on them to demonstrate how do they call it development . Now, how do you call devastating Livelihoods Development . How do you for destroying agriculture and livelihoods of small farm was development . So the burden of proof is really on them, so they can pull wash, they can dream wash, they can lie as much as they want. But when you look at their research and data again, their own data, you look at the research that comes out of the world bank. All you have to do is be slightly intelligent and not lazy and go through this say this, the truth and the evidence is right there. Its a truth that you confront from or hide from in the lights of the amount of black Rock Connections to zalinski. Maybe this is laughable or tragic, given the 10s of thousands that have been killed in this war. Technically presume reason lensky would say, no, you know, boss is off to the us back who in 2014, its illegal for foreigners to own land. So how is agribusiness managing to invade the country . Ill give you more successfully than any other country. What i would strongly urge your view is to read a report warning test, which clearly demonstrates using corporate data bases and private data bases to expose who was actually invested in these lands. Im sorry, earlier i mentioned p h c. I should mention that the funds, which is a us based private equity fund, which is heavily invested. And whether you ascension funds, foundations, University Endowments invested is the n c h capital. So you have private equity funds moving in like welchs. Were investing in land. So im afraid president zaleski, you have to look at our reports and the data that we have secured, which beauty demonstrates who owns the land, is predominantly the on the golf and ukraine. As well as the west and financial interests predominantly north american and european. Obviously they old and i wrong doing and were not an advocate for those funds. And in a case, i presume is a bad betsy. If i may do it, eventually it meets defeat in, in this war. Um, do you ever think that a your, the defect or by mistake advising people to invest in these profiteering agribusiness firms as you explain what you appear to be saying is deep corruption involved in this war as regards food from nato countries . I think everyone can say that the water is corrupt, as you said, if it wasnt so tragic, if it wasnt above the destruction of lives, that b a c, it would be funny and laughable as to how its a chess game thats played. But the reality is, the tragedy. The tragedy of lives being lost, children who are losing their lives, the mine fields, destruction of livelihoods. I know war is about peace. No war in todays world is about really dignity and reward is corrupt. Every war is about taking the sources away and putting it in the military. Industrial complex to introduce civilized world to not have diplomacy to not have talk a fees to see lies being devastated. To see that youre creating and fama as being in the bible. See, instead of having rich livelihoods growing food for themselves, a country in the world. I mean, its a shame that we are off fluids by these lies of dignity and bravery, and democracy, and support and friendship with ukraine. The truth has, is, once again the Corporations Court out to make money and profit, even if, if its the cost of slice and livelihoods of the innocent underwriting the job. Thank you. I think thats over the show. Well be back on saturday with a brand new episode, but until then you can give it to us firewall that social media. If its not sensitive in your country and then to our channel going underground tv on, rumbled up. Com to watching you and all the episodes of going underground c center the, the russian states. Never as one of the most sense be the best english ill send, send up the send, the 50000 speedy one else calls question about this. Even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin move the machine, the state on the rush of putting a split, the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services to the question, did you say steve or twist which is the hello and welcome across stock. Were all things are considered non funeral about as a cranes much over 5 to counter offensive stalls. Western leaders have made a remarkable rhetorical pivot, buying and says poor has already lost the war. The secretary of state blinking says russia has lost their narrative is a form of suit