a special edition of going underground 54 years since the tet offensive. a turning point against us was in the vietnam region that killed $6000000.00 as american forces fought that towards or make the world safer capitalism. in america, the youngest mayor of a major u. s. city was waging his own war against unrestrained corporate power targeting his city of cleveland. his stand against the privatization of the publicly owned mooney light company echoes fights all around the world against neoliberalism. joining me now from cleveland is that mad dennis goosenich, former democratic nominee for the u. s. presidency in author of the division of light and power. dennis, thanks so much for finally being on going under ground dam. i should just start there by the fact that we're being warned here in london that vladimir putin might turn the light and power off in that your view, your thoughts on the fact that the nature briefing we are on the brink of war in europe and the biden is preparing thousands of troops to fight towards russia. i can tell you, here from our american shide, i'm talking you from a neighborhood including an ohio and no one around here. it's thinking or talking about war. people are just trying to live their own lives and get through the pan derek of find a way to survive initial economy. and i think that people are going to pretty typical of most americans. i think our country needs to finally come to a on time with, with russia, resolve the underlying issues are truly, really energy. what's interesting is that my book arises at a time that there's a context for control of energy market, oil, liquid, natural gas. and any time you have that kind of a struggle, there's always the possibility that people will do whatever they can in order to dominant. and so we have to be very careful here in this stage about overreaching and we get the world really is seeking for a way to come to pace and the saber rattling right now. that's going on. i don't think church or any country. well, particularly those in your and i think the united states, mr. vine your support and need to be in constant contact and lower the temperature right now, because i don't think anybody really wants more. i, i can't imagine that anyone thinks that a, they're anywhere in such a conflict. i mean, there's literally talk of comparison to the cuban missile crisis. well, you know, it has kept in mind, it rushes troop movements are happening within the russian borders. i think get really needs to be understood and russia just as any sharon nation as the right to defended some borders. i think the hysteria that's being worked up needs to be discounted mightily. and in light of the fact that there are, are various agendas that are seeking to be advanced in the name of security, which actually when they're unmasked, you can see that in a way, it's kind of a naked attempt to grab energy markets. and we have to be very careful about that. i think that there's a there needs to be a genuine effort to repair the united states relationship with russia. but one of those agendas is privatization, and i'm not sure about cleveland, but here in london where i'm speaking to you from, often it's being talked about, the people at face a choice between eating or heating. just how did you fight and the u. s. as the youngest man, i did the fight against privatization nearly cost your life as you describe in the division of liking power. it's really important to, to remember that any time any organization corporation has the ability to control and energy market, whether it's for electricity and what use to make electricity, oil, natural gas. you can basically to control the market. you can name your price and get it. and what people pay for the basic essentials of life, including energy, is no small matter. i mean, i remember growing up in cleveland as my family moved around a lot throughout the city. i remember my parents counting entities to pay a utility bill. there are people everywhere who are trying to make ends meet and what we pay for for electricity, for energy, for oil, for natural gas is no small matter and show when i was the mayor of cleveland. and i took this book, the division of light and power is all about. i had to make a choice about who did i represent, did i represent the company that was attempting to grab a monopoly so they could increase the price of electricity or did i represent the people in the city who have a competitive electric system that exist extensively to be able to keep right slow . and so you know, this was what it was all about and there were billions of dollars each day. i mean, i asked the former british energy secretary of state about the need is some see it to keep energy resources, energy supplies on the democratic control, otherwise known as nationalized or under the control of local government. he appeared to be saying that's where the dinosaurs who haven't caught up with the great new economics pioneered, of course, by reagan adventure. well, now natalie is the media the dinosaur. okay. we have to keep in mind that public utilities, unless the people controller, unless they control basic public services, they're always going to be subjected to increases. i mean, this is basically, it's an economic issue. it's an issue of ultimately record our freedom. so if, if you know wherever you're at in the world, if i was shocking a service that previously was provided to the public at a, at a, at a reasonable and a low price gets privatize. it is actually erratic that you're going to pay more because the only reason why anyone would privatizing this is in order to to have a monopoly and then you increase the cost and leave the public. that's what happens . on the other hand, if you have a, if you have a monopoly that exists in the private sector over a, what should be a public service? the idea municipal is ation is one that should only be taken if you can prove that people can save money because it's all about trying to help people make it through their own lives. so that the most important thing in their lives does not become having to pay utility bill. but look when your facial monthly bill, you have to pay it or whether it's coming from government or from the private sector. and i don't hold the belief that government can do everything it can. i don't want to government, you know, i'm, i'm not a fan of socialism. communism capitalism. hey, i, you know, i'll ask you, i can be rheumatism. but i also say that we need to be mindful of what public policy does to the people when you permit for private monopolies to control the price. if the public controls are, they can always go somebody out office if the price goes too hot. but if it's controlled by the private sector, they have no action whatsoever. the who is, be mindful, that's quite a undistinguished for anyone having read this book because the fact that obviously what you just said that is not part of the public discourse. here's why i wrote the book, and if you find to be you for it and look what happened to you. just describe what have, i mean, also describe the levels of corruption that you see as being booked by the idea of any privatized defacto public monopoly. well, if you can, if you have an awfully and something a large and a public, whether it's electricity, water, natural gas, or transportation education on and on and on. health care, i wrote the bill in the stage to provide for medicare for all single payer. now where you can get a monopoly nigger price and, and, and get it. so what happened and what happened clever is that the private utility subverted the city government you know, gave contributions to politicians so that they would vote their way. but there went beyond that. they supported the media, they use their advertising dollars to be able to get the media to say whatever they want to say with respect to the cities public utility. so the media fell in line. do the person i refers and attack the cities utility of the cities ability to run a utility. even though the cities utility was making a profit, were serving the people and behind the sage. and this is documented by the atomic safety licensing commission of the nuclear regulatory commission. behind the scenes, the private power company was working to stop city council from approved from improving any kind of improvements to the cities electric system. and it was determined later on they were creating outages. honda municipal system, is there a black house that we created directly during holiday seasons and then the media which a she you have an electric system doesn't work. no, we had one that was being sabotaged. and this book is a story of corporate espionage, of corporate, sharon, tired of the, of creating blackouts in the city, or with the intention of grabbing a natalie on electric power and wiping out the city system. in cleveland, we have competitive systems, we have a private system serving part of the city and a publisher in serving part of the city. but the private power company wanted it all. i'll get to media collusion and why had to carry a starter pistol on una in a 2nd. but of course, what you just said that britain has a universal health care system which is funded with the half of the percentage of public money per capita that they do in the united states. still, it is a universal system. some people say there's a deliberate running down of nationalized systems just the way you put it there. so that people, certainly the elite of a middle class has got to stop using these public systems and opt for private. and also it then allows people to say, see, it doesn't work when it's a democratically accountable, is this something that the people around the world should be aware of? absolutely. the private interest, if they can gain control over, was essentially a public service such as health care. again, you know, your price and you get it. now just think for a moment, the consequences of this were in a pandemic right now. it's affecting a whole world. you know, in, in a, in a country like america, which is really been hit very hard by cogan, how much better we would be if for last few decades. we would have a public council some more people would check in regularly and be able to monitor their health and make health care a not just a service, but make it a consciousness that people have so that we take responsibility for only how government can give a shout when we take responsibility for our own house, and we start to do things, improve our immune system, our ability to respond to diseases. you know that children done years ago. what about why hasn't been done, and why is joe biden have no, absolutely no intention, no avowed intention of doing anything like that. well, i think, you know, political parties are controlled by corporate interests. and the democrats, unfortunately, went that way, decades ago, and decided the only way they could get enough money to win elections was to do republicans or during those get the money from corporations and the private healthcare interest. the private insures can contribute mild to yours campaigns. that basically it's a pay to play system. it's almost an auction and they policy goes to the highest bidder. you know, it's pretty, pretty simple in that regard. i mean, even know, the great mass of american people would prefer to have access to health care to, to pay less and have a broader range of services. it's not happening and you know, i, i carry that flight forward in the united states congress for many years and there's the need. it is still very great in our country. i really feel sorry for so many people suffering because this system doesn't serve the people. it serves interest groups, dennis, because the child stop you that more from the twice us to have a great presidential contender after this break. when i would think wrong, when i just don't with to see how it comes to an engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, welcome back. i'm still here with former us congressman dennis considers 53rd mayor of cleveland and twice democrat presidential contender has been a corruption scandal here in britain about cash for questions in the british parliament. what would you say to politicians around the world watching about why the corruption goes from my taking a few tickets for a ball game right up to a having questions asked in the legislature? well, systems are, our systems are corrupted. and i think many people go into public service with the intention of actually sherman because they, they care and people even knows of integrity can find themselves in compromising situations. if there are political patrons asked for specific travers as the consequences of dispensing those figures are not carefully considered. so i really look at it as the changes have to be made systemically, in order to make it possible for politicians to avoid the narrow occasions of being compromised as a worker. then what does it mean if you're in public office? what it means is, take any money from anybody who's bound to ask you to do anything, not how you know that might cause some whiplash. when you think about it, but the actual what it comes down to, don't take any money from anyone who may ask you to do anything. well, i think by the president of the united states as bankrolled, arguably in the senate by the credit card industry we have is on google. boeing to up to you is gave money to his campaign. we you ever attempted to take even a ticket for a ball game by a financial corporate interests that you suspected of having ail, terry? how much, if not, not a chance. let me say, i don't want anything if you go into public life looking to fill a hole in your soul. yes, he's going to show that. oh, no blandishments, no contributions, nothing of the way i look where it got you. in this book, there is a transcript from w k y c news of a hitman. i wanted to kill you quotes, we can to make a finish. that's what i was told. we come by can finish. he was cut from a different cloth. wow. did you find yourself wanting to keep a pistol and the officer assess it as a police learned of a math? you hit them? well i, i never, i never are myself. everybody was i, you know, they're still there. that story was a gun rights, i think was a scott to pistol. well i, i'm no, no, and i that that was another story from another era that was i'll call it apocryphal . but i to speaking of the challenge that i faced when i was mayor. but it was made very clear to me by police intelligent the connection between the assassination plot and my position in refusing to sell our municipal electric system to this private utility. you have to keep in mind that during this time, cleveland was the bombing capital of america because of war between various factions, of organized crime and organized crime, had penetrated in the city government into the banking community. and you know, unfortunately, that the power that was exercise was such that yeah, you could pay, i hit man, $80.00 grand to kill a mayor. you know, the fact that i survived that i was just lucky. i mean, it was want to town for a high powered rifle shot. came to my house and i'm in right now. and i missed my head by fraction of a fraction period. and you know, i, i, i like you to be right now, but i was lucky to get through that period without getting hurt. that obviously would event know, moving arguably of the entire democratic party. animal progressive line in your presidential attempt 24 and 20. 08 i just quickly on the media, you do talk about the u. s. corporate media being the handmaiden of the corruption involved in privatization. well, from my experience and clearly it was early in my political career as a city councilman, that i came into contact with an internal document of the cleaning, electric aluminum company where they basically were bragging how they were using and manipulating the media in order to get positive coverage of the clean electric illuminated company and negative coverage of the municipal electric system owned by the people. so much so that they were directly delivering editorials to read to, to newspapers, and to television stations. and having them published verbatim, in order to be able to get their point of view across which total propaganda, that was corporate propaganda. and they were using it to undermine the public's right to be able to own their own electric system to keep electric rates low. so we can go over that little local paper there, arguably internationally. i have to ask about the fact that, given that this kind of thing is reported again and again in countries with the number to them, let alone in the united states. and the effect of privatization neoliberalism. do you think ironically that and the impact of privatization was something that steve bannon tapped into in that speech with donald trump, american carnage. and actually had the despair of the midwest of the united states that came from this kind of these kinds of actions you talk about in the book well elected from, you know, let's talk about the at westerman the midwest. was d industrialized one of the reasons why we lost so many industry was the high cost of electricity, particularly because of these private utilities raising a cost of energy to the rough. ok. now the over arching issue is a philosophical one. the mayor of cleveland, who founded our municipal electric system at the turn of the 20th century, tommy johnson. he said they should, i, i think that, you know, his words are, were very eloquent. i want to repeat them. i believe in public ownership of public service, monopolies of water systems, of schools, electric systems, of parks and on. because if you do not own them, they won't chime on, you, dell, corrupt your politics, role your institutions, and finally destroy your livers. now that was over a 100 years ago, there's nothing short of of frame involved here. and when people end up paying more and businesses end up paying more in industries out of paying more, it create to destruct a destructive economic undermining of people's lives period. could that quote from that predecessor of you has a matter of cleveland, cleveland be used as a extended to the military industrial complex. it owns you when it comes to the white us, one of my, one of my books in my library, it is about the life of david eisenhower who was president of the united states when he, when he left the office in his valedictory stage, he warned about the influence of what he called the military industrial complex on the everyday life of americans is warning, you know, should be put in stone outside of public buildings across the country. because a, what's happened is this, that a larger and larger percentage of the budget of the united states goes for the military contracting. and in a way behind the scenes, it helps inspire wars and to keep us out war. it is a, it is a corrupt system that i, that will take the money that should be used for education, for health care, for feeding people and, and just give it to a military contractors who will make sophisticated hardware that's trying to find a way to years you know, i, i, i was right in the middle of that for 16 years. and i, and i refused to vote for budget, which ended up a site getting money from the american people and giving it to, to this big war machine. which just looks for wasting keeps, it stirred up so they can find a way to use their products. i mean, you know, is there, is there a connection? look, any time, any large corporate interest have great influence over a government. it cannot be to the benefit of the people that nation, but even the lobby, a sun k street, arguably didn't us the pen to good to us for $770.00 a $1000000000.00. this year for the military budget, you think joe biden thinks that giving them extra is of price worth paying the same office? i mean, i know, you know, i, because i will tell you, i think, you know, we made a mistake in personalizing this. i know because i know i know joe by the loaner for more than 50 years. i don't. i don't think that he thinks in terms of use express. but i do the fact that he has spent a fairly loyal servant of a system that supports that approach. and that, that's a problem which a bipartisan problem, it's the reason why party politics doesn't work. the reason why the system is not serving the american people. well, that last national defense authorization appropriation that you mention congress plus that up about $27000000000.00. more than was even asked for and show we wonder what is going on here with, with all the need that exists. now people are going to say, why don't we just keep printing money? well, we've got to look at our monetary system and if we're going to do that, because within the context of the present monetary system, the way that the governments being rod is highly inflationary. the basic needs of people still are, are being met. and i will tell you that we have a crisis which involved so public confidence in government and in government leaders and, and the root of it is the corporate interest. i have infiltrated the government and are actually calling the shots for policy. and just about every area of american life. well, somebody will go to very rich. obviously, during the pandemic, we often say on this program, 40000000, maybe more need food stamps to eat tonight in your country. if anyone reads this book, one is going to have to ask the question, can change in your country be achieved peacefully, you sacrifice your health, you nearly died in the hospital. there was that mafia here to attempted. the levels of corruption, defamation can change in your country be achieved peacefully. of course, i don't believe in revolution, i believe in spiritual evolution. cultures evolve if you get a chance to. yeah, i was american system was set up so so that we could try to help a country adapt to an agreement, a future. but it would help if we had public financial campaigns to take away the great influence that has existed by and from corporate interest. that would be a good start, but you know, our system is weakened by corporate influence. there's no question about it. now, is there a way to break it? of course there is and then involves electing. people are determined to do that. and that involves people actually getting involved, at least on a level their book, and becoming more aware. you know, it's going to happen overnight. now. can it happen? of course, a chance. you know, the countries always had this capacity to break through. got it all depends on, on who's and who's elected that set for what are your favorite shows of the season, the team and i will be back soon with a brand new look. but until then, you can keep in touch viral on social media if it's available in your country and remember, you can continue to watch all going on the ground episodes on auto. see that auto come see very soon ah ah, ah ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk a ah, with