population and a lot of the patients that we're seeing tonight you know we saw are not you in a 2nd why we're actually in those categories which are often majority of cases are soaring aren't you around the age of 45 to 65 so we know a lot of those patients are being vaccinated but alarm but i'm not holding my breath in anticipation of things that being a small decline in pandemic working off the date the barcode that we've seen from from the u.k. government in the last year i mean are you know as a health. still with the amount of death and suffering we've seen over the last year and a lot of a huge amount of very avoidable because of the why the pandemic was handled by the government is heartbreaking the government of course would deny that and boris johnson who's who is actually in the hospital where you work your your staff saved his life arguably he says what we have done is try to give them and he's referring to you and your colleagues as much as we can at the present time leaving aside the alleged incompetence of the government he's referring of course to this one percent pay rise for you and your colleagues and of course you had claps every week promoted on the b.b.c. as a gratitude for all the amazing work you've done. i think the 1st thing i'm going to say about the clapping is the tractor we got from the u.k. public was i think instrumental in keeping them around and i thank the british public for coming out and clapping us it might ignite a huge difference so i'm around here in that 1st wife detracting from the prime minister and my hank up and richie soon act we found some extremely hypocritical i think johnson's stewardship of the whole pandemic has been shot in my hank uk who is students the n.h.s. i think i've said before i think if i like he handled the pandemic i would but i wouldn't be now the job a long time ago about riches a knack i think is the one i would reserve most in from for the moment because i think it spain d y that the government has played off the economy is going to the health of the nation has created the huge mess that we say in in the country at the moment status or sit by was an increase spicing ach it was you know people were paid twice alights and the disastrous policies out so help our you know that policy now research has shown in a 6 of a covert clusters in the 2nd in a 2nd life kind directly from the ad to help out policy getting people back to arc too quickly schools back at the same time as people were encouraged to go back to work advise in the u.k. government not to go in search of the 2nd look down because it would affect the economy so we went into a lockdown lite that's cost lives and it shocks at the economy sure they'll say that as of an inquiry we'll thought all of that the former goldman sachs chance or use me call of would say test track and isolate has been given billions 22000000000 and then in the budget in the small print 15000000000 pounds i mean do you really think that there is an i. ideological leveraging off coronavirus by this government to use it to further privatizing the national health service i would be staggered if i don't carry on with it with business as usual and used this as a as a crime to show you know a way of pushing things through off the b. that lead to crises that we just were just bikes you look at public health service which couldn't handle test prices nice like itself best might see it in the last 10 years since since the land's lancet reforms if you look at the die die hard incest rights an isolated system of the government 22000000000 it did not work it did not do it was sad to be testing people's fine you can test people you can find out whether or not they're positive but you need to be able to isolate and attract triste noise like part of that system wasn't put into place the prime minister says it is working so it's out of my ankle i'm just going to finish about this possibility of strike action i'm not sure whether some people will think civil disobedience may be better because strike action a month health workers always tough 12 and a half percent they are c.n.n. royal college of nurses increase recommendation what would that put a stop to strike action and and what the mental health of your colleagues now oh i'll tell you we are shattered we're exhausted but are also insulted and we feel undermined a lot of our law my colleagues are talking about leaving the service a lot of my colleagues have seen stuff that they shouldn't have done and you know some my colleagues not insubstantial numbers of diet of coded whilst working in the front line with inadequate p.p. in some cases that wasn't supplied to me going by the u.k. government people at my hancock we have to ask ourselves what kind of well do we want to live in do we want to live in a world well you know health isn't valued the community is in value you know our elderly are valued our sick our vulnerable i'm finally doing the people that deliver that can often see all of one's you know. in their final stages of their life if they're not valued then what kind of a society we live in what what what what what i really can't understand why we've been insulted like this by the government i think is absolutely disgraceful and that's why we will strike we've got people going to food banks you know i've got i know health workers that are using the night bus to get into scenario early morning shift because they can't afford to chub we've got still hold them to account for the damage that they've done to the n.h.s. for the damage that i've done see them around and the wellbeing of health workers and city countless deaths that are on the hands of richie singh nightmare hancock and boris johnson you know they really do have blood on their hands just very briefly i know you've calculated he'll be just pennies better off a day with the one percent rise when would a strike start what we're looking at mary's we're looking at ballots and becoming ballot ready so i think we're looking at a few months before we start that process this one percent which is a couch insults for me it's works out to around 90 p. a dice 313 pounds a year for other nurses and health workers who say even less than once they've caught thank you well while n.h.s. stuff as of us will pay cut tens of millions continue to be doled out to britain's royal family that has straight to act and say oh mine poured out of political before his in london can actually thanks for coming on the show people of color enjoy racism in this country every every single day and the poor people and your prejudice why should we feel sorry for a princess in california it's not necessarily a case of us feeling sorry for and princess from california but it's understanding that if a very very light skinned biracial woman from america can marry into the highest echelon in our british society and face that sort of racism that sort of discrimination. then what do we think is happening to the people who are darker than her who are very much you know british who are very much who have very different socio economic positions so what she has while the palace or the firm is making marco cause it very quick to anonymously source stories in the so-called mainstream press saying that the firm is not institutionally racist it's like a piece of wood saying that it's not so surely. i don't i don't understand what that statement could possibly mean of course by design there is no way that the money key cannot be institutionally racist because the institution is built upon the oppression of black and brown people the greats that we see in britain would not exist if it were not for other countries being made not so great and those countries are still trying to crawl their way back to some kind of economical and integrity now you know i look at the very real history of the monarchy is cologne your representation and the present day impact it's having on us we still have something called the commonwealth what is common about the wealth when it's only kept kept by particular country and a particular family it makes no sense whatsoever we are still seeing the impact of colonialism in this very day more parishioners are still very much you know keeping their claws into the country of nigeria and the continent of africa as well as south and east asia we can still see that the monarchy hasn't gone anywhere colonialism hasn't really gone anywhere so by design the monarchy can claim to not be institutionally racist when that is what actually gave it its relevance. well the u.k. prime minister barak johnson refused to confirm or deny whether they were racist no doubt the queen would deny she's a racist but what do you think that on the eve of the meghan markle oprah winfrey interview it was a cynical ploy to have a commonwealth broadcast on the state mandated b.b.c. if i were to look at it as somebody who knows nothing it all seems rather suspect to me but if nothing else that celebration of commonwealth just goes to show the way that we are in a deep denial in britain about the very violent nature of colonialism and the bethel of the monarchy why would anybody care what your strengths and has to say about whether you know britain is racist or not or whether he in fact is racist in south we're talking about somebody who referred to black people having you know been pickaninny says he wrote it with watermelon smiles those troops actually there damaging in the dates the date runs and certainly deny he's any kind of racist already there are a remarks in australia about the need to re-evaluate the commonwealth do you think that the center view could help catalyze events that would lead to the queen no longer being the titular head of state of all his former colonies it shirt we really need to have a conversation about why these why we need this representation why do we need the queen necessary to be the head of state and i love that you know people try to kind of extrapolate the woman from the from the monarch you know and they say you know she's like a grandmother to ask why should we want a grandmother took to look over us and you know watch over us no no because these are the same kinds of rhetoric that we saw that brought the winds russian aeration over here are only for them to not be treated with the respect that they deserve a landing papers were lost all because they believe that they will come into that quote unquote mother's life and to help rebuild it we have to get rid of this romance of seismic shock or sort of. perception where we are talking about the very very real white supremacist violence of this institution. ok well late that the winter scandal is one that continues to reverberate there were resignations. over the deportation of people of color from the former colonies the thing is that very soon we may be hearing much more about the bullying allegations and inquiry into megan marco's character far from the idea of britain becoming a republic or sent me a republican as its former colonies here anything to distract from the conversation that needs to be had between a bullying or serious. but it's very serious bullying is very serious but also what would we call the commonwealth and if by any chance make it happens the it would be and i do believe has to be so but if she was to be a bully surely she would end it into the dynamic of this institution because they have gone on to. its high confidence all centuries there are some remarks by former prime minister malcolm turnbull in australia anywhere else we should be looking for as to where possible take downs of the queen because of the make them are going to be. i mean i'm hearing conversations about you know pop a dose and says you got them it's really considering within the caribbean we're moving the queen is the head of states and i think that these are very real conversations that need to be had i do you think we need to look at why we need this figurehead this specific figurehead when they are media representation oh. for thank you after the break we return to the pandemic in the us where the myth that all countries are treating coronavirus in the same way actually came from. joe biden famously said nothing will fundamentally change just appears to be the case when it comes to u.s. policy regarding the middle east coast we asked the question what is the strategic value of the middle east who benefits from all these forever wars. tax ties or financial survival go stacy let's learn a salad fill out let's say i'm not so i get. angry some thanks have to fight street spot thank you for taking. on the story that's right. that's slavery. some control from middle class to homeless overnight most some are very hardworking people who want to get ahead that have either have some some health issues or have some of it out of strict about luck a full time job won't always pay for a place to live and missing just a month's rent can get you a victim to gunpoint if anything bad happens to any thing that just throws your budget off slightly. you better catch up real quick or you're going to have a judgment of possession against you and get addicted. why anyone is homeless in history like garbage people look at you like a monster or someone batter you chose to be there most of the time it's not the case see how it is to be pawns in the world's richest country. welcome back one year ago today she jinping general secretary of the chinese communist party made his 1st visit to hand since the emergence of covert millions of nabbing killed by the effects of coronavirus around the world but you could be forgiven for thinking every country is dealing with a pandemic in the same way even though it is hit politically neo liberal nations are just joining me now from sussex in the u.k. peter baldwin well they're fighting the 1st wave where the coronavirus was tackled so differently across the globe peter welcome to going underground if you watched u.k. so-called mainstream media might be forgiven for thinking that all countries in the world responded to the coronavirus pandemic pretty similarly tell me about how your book seems to demolish that myth it seems to be quite obvious that they didn't. missions very quite dramatically given that it's basically the same problem the president sort of each each one of them i suppose the british government would say yeah actually we we didn't all respond worldwide to coronavirus the same way because britain was well beating it is well beating now because of vaccination for instance in your book you say that there was a degree of crude populism that one can use to. miss test different countries ability to respond to the virus certainly those nations are ruled boy populist leaders took different approaches and those that are not i soon since we're talking populism we're talking democracy and so there aren't democratic regimes around all very well in the democratic regimes that handle them less well just one more year sarkozy is a recording star no response is well it's true the brits aren't little chick about world getting various things that they were going to introduce. drunken traces don't lose them. there is a missing so they did not do things especially grow up until the actually brawler which they seem to have done. a great example among i mean specifically you are saying in this book that any idea that we might have that talk receive is where the main determinant of coronavirus response that's not true i mean of course he's worried by it just as much as other forms regimes do they have really you know the internet or the line people say china or vietnam these communist party led countries they did better because they can control society your book says no it is not. that it's not different types of government necessarily that determine the outcome of coronavirus casualties wrote trying to vietnam did reasonably well but so do you during democratic regimes because you and australia or. south korea and only dimensional populism i mean in a sense where again he made some sort of political or philosophical dimension because vaccination policy or to become a subject of discussion in britain which feeds into politics the idea of individual as an individual freedom i do think this idea of works in process works is going to be nearly the issue looks like people are thinking about this moment i mean we're all expert you know we need to driver's licenses and shooting in washington some licenses to be a plumber america restroom you know just about everything else martin march for you why do you think therefore the prime minister morris johnson is a reluctant. he will come around very quickly he might. know surely be obvious that countries like cuba are would have has historically had far better health outcomes than say it's neighboring the united states should be obvious that countries like cuba would do better when it comes to responding to the virus. ok a country like cuba is in a very peculiar position. it's small it's insular it can regulate travel in and out it has its population in a fairly under control it also has invested the enormous the high fraction of its g.d.p. in medical outcomes so it is does medically very roic compared to its neighboring us but in comparison to all its neighbors and indeed in comparison to most countries in the world so. yes the cubans do well on medical issues they do especially well on issues that require clamping down on free movement. during the aids crisis you know only through it trying to positive people basically into camps to make sure they didn't have contact with others and in this in this kind of as well you know they've come to our store with tens of thousands of medical instructors to make sure the people who stay nice they say so do so your opinion is that a talker autocratic rule has been a big factor i thought the whole point of the book was that it was. populism that was the enemy of coronavirus response and of the good outcomes and it didn't matter what type of government you had other words in that the point of the book. only obliquely. if you have a well equipped toolkit as most authorities do then obviously you have certain advantages respond to that doesn't mean that you can muster no i mean there were obviously intercourse is a did look to iran venezuela. i suppose one can argue about russia where iran and venezuela have done far better than britain or the united states so in a program hasn't. one deaths per capita britain is double yes yes overall not sure along with a bunch of a whale is not in the top 10 nor is iran a capital i don't know what about deliberate lies you say the u.k. fudged to to sticks with it $300.00 stuff to track the pandemic obviously tracking trace as the world health organization says as essential for urban we have . the effect of the pandemic do you believe there were deliberate lies here in britain. i don't say were deliberate lies i think most countries and look for injuring or at least not having accuracy just expressed in the beginning why would they fudge the statistics that as you allege here in britain well obviously the british government denies it's fudging any statistics every crumb every nation i think find you statistics at one point or another and you do say the islands. apart from perhaps britain they they have tended to do better i mean imagine new zealand an island nation is britain an outlier. yes. i mean look if you look at the countries that did best among democracies your small distant past would be a marginal politically consensual. but terribly densely populated. and islands and you know if you have 4 of those 6 characteristics you're probably you know ahead of the game islands are easier to control the pacific i mean the small nations in the pacific ocean all shot down almost immediately and almost uniformly have had none or very few cases essent past a populated bit in the book you say population density doesn't really correlate with outcome in the year versus wade in or instance that alone of course the big megacities of china where a coronavirus outcomes are so much better than in. major countries like britain you you keep on putting words in my mouth i don't think i said the density is not related i said it's not one of the primary outcomes but obviously more densely populated places tended to have it spread more quickly new york city being an obvious example i mean the difference between new york and south dakota you know had political implications in terms of how leaders thought the problem was either serious or not and how they responded so i wouldn't say don't cities certainly material may not be equally material everywhere obviously if you're a country like china where you manage to get it under control and yes then the density of your other cities is going to be irrelevant but that doesn't mean the density as such as i think i think is a that they it has no little correlation in the book i mean if you look at india most notably obviously mumbai and the mega-cities in rwanda and they've done far better than india has an enormous really interesting question i suspect we're going to be studying india for years if not decades to come and i suspect the possible answer to the indian outcome is going to be our dreamlike offices that there is something about don't see the microbial challenge and the robustness of human immune responses that help explain why the indians have been summit. to start to go both becoming in fact open to dying. and african countries infamous for the i.m.f. loans and dense. relatively poor populations a human gene in the book the china use alternative medicines as well i'm not sure whether you. you mean in the book that almonds and ginger are. something to take in parallel with the vaccine or i have no opinion on the matter i'm not a medical person all i say in the book is that the chinese put forth t.c.m. traditional chinese medicine as a way of approaching the disease and in fact the t.c.m. doctors were encouraged and facilitated in treating so yes the chinese made use of the current chinese ministration sees used t.c.m. very favorably it doesn't view it as something you know non trying to fix or. not legitimize boy current scientific principles it sees it as a part of trying to culture that should be regulated and it will only do what it could. for you don't really have much of an anti vax as in china how do you see the intending concern here and in other european nations about. doubt about that accident as part of a conspiracy theory conspiracy anti vaccinations one small part of anti vaccinations more generally mean people can be anti virus leaders or cons reeses and i think europe's the right is going to be a major problem as well actually rolls out there are no countries that are more skeptical of axioms in general not just the one for coding than western europe given all the work you've done in this book if there are new variant as there are reportedly you think the countries will be better prepared or are there some countries that haven't the lessons or mistakes made in the past where. a couple of things that are. if new variants now will lead to yet another major wave i think copulations as a whole in most countries are so tired of locked on the governments are going to find it very difficult true pose yet another series of locked out that's one aspect to it the other is that now that we have vaccines that we know who work for the original variant the very easy and quick to tweak and so i think it is highly likely that we're going to have effect to our medical responses to these variants and now that we know how to produce them and we've learned a great deal about how to administer them we probably will be better able to roll out a vaccine booster or a new vaccine whatever it is it's going to take 2 to counter the variance the problem is you know you get more variants of spread more quickly than we could have those 2 a vaccine that that's the real issue some combination of lockdown distancing separation the behavioral management aspects of public health from $100.00 accidents on the other are going to be the only way out. thank you that if the show will be back on 7 days either. this is critical. to the heat actually physically. he would have well well. there's a lot of money with your deal and with that comes. a lot of a lot of people from all over the country. you don't make a $100000.00 a year. there's an issue. here in the. they were close to a hard work will work is not easy. and so they want to relieve their stress of how do they relieve their stress these may move that outweigh that comfort that. you have a boom you have everything else that comes along with money. the headlines when i see international the european council president accuses britain of vaccine nationalism through imposing an outright ban on the export of facts seems it's something that sparked fury from the u.k. government. also in the headlines on this wednesday coverups failure and delay lawyers on people's covert inquiry often blasting the government for a fatal error of some of the pandemic. many of the families do believe that their loved ones did. not everyone know the lowest number. of german newspapers claiming it was spying on the russian opposition figure.

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