Plans to make russias a covert vaccine the countrys foreign minister exclusively tells r t why in tehran is supporting sputnik the. Russian the russian vaccine you have a very bad experience with another question countries that i do not want to name. My colleague kevin allen brings you the latest next hour of next no its cost stay with us. A little we welcome to all Things Considered. The newly inaugurated american President Joe Biden calls for you to. He in a country sharply divided at the same time big tech continues to be platform individuals and even cancel their competition and still others are calling for Trump Supporters to be deprogrammed so much for unity. To discuss these issues and more im joined by my guest in baltimore we have and shopmen he is a political activist and in beirut crossing george ion he is a republican analyst and an International Political strategists to make bus stop rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciate it who is going to be and 1st here again joe biden during his inaugural address asked for unity and but at the same time as i said in my introduction here that unity. Hope is not kind of universal i mean in many ways it looks like the democrats are really so were winners ok i mean where is the embrace of the the defeated the bankwest year because i think that that would be a good step in the right direction because it seems like there may be a call for unity as kind of hollow at this point here your thoughts. Sure and yeah well i definitely think there is a call for unity but the call for unity is mostly around moderates like the moderate democrats that are leading this call for unity so i think what the democrats are trying to do is create a powerful large and. Unfavorable bloc in the congress of moderate republicans democrats you look at people like Susan Collins senator collins or. Romney these are the folks that are being rewarded by the biden now palosi and schumer hand in hand coming congressional block these are the folks who are going to be basically forming a a large centrist establishment agenda in the next coming 2 years so youre going to see critics on the left who have completely vanished in the Democratic Party say that way theyre not going to become critic theyre not going to rally around a left flank its not going to happen and i can tell you why but i think more troubling is that the republicans are going to become what they are leaderless theyre completely leaderless right now and theyre just going to let the moderate republicans have their day within that block and youre going to see a unity and healing process and its going to be more establishment business as usual youre not going to actually address the crises that our country faced its not going to address the housing crisis were not going to get universal health care were not going to actually deal with growing inequality were not going to deal with money and politics instead its going to be a lot of pomp and circumstance and evidently no real actually and you know i agree with you i dont think theres going to be Much Movement in policy but what im worried about is that instead of dealing seriously with policy issues is that you know you continue to demonize Trump Supporters thats a substitute for doing Something Else and i think thats really dangerous because i mean lets face it the 1st things they did joe biden did just not very popular in the country i mean these are not things that are you know like 9010 you know one in Public Opinion polls are very very divisive and he went down the road of culture wars which you know. George i can go to you you know ive been an advisor who would have said get those checks out ok i mean everybody wants that ok Immigration Reform and reversing what trump did we can argue those were good or bad but and then you know its saying that Sexual Identity is. Equivalent to gender which again that is a very very divisive thing for a lot of people here so you know it seems to me that if these are on the wrong track and when you cant have a majority majority carry an agenda youre going to go both divisive and thats what a lot of democrats have done im going to talk about deprogramming later your own it well i would say where i disagree with ian is that the idea that the far left flank and Democratic Party will vanish i dont agree with that at all i think i think theyll be emboldened because we still have midterm elections coming they will be primary challenges to moderates kind of establishment consensus democrats that said that even mentioned because that trend has been happening and its been successful and that will continue and thats kind of normal and its a party system just as there will be a fight for the as as the invention for the hard sell the Republican Party as well as far as deep for oh well get to that later to deprogram me but as far as the staying with the trouble or isnt the democrats being sore winners i mean if you decide to be fair to some extent theres this kind of nothing that biden do right when it comes to that people are still are its a breakup that just happened they lost nothing is going to satisfy a lot of them are the 74000000 people that voted for trump and not all of those people agree with what happened at the capitol weeks altering and they react so so you know those people not a lot of them not a lot of friends and family among them that and rare very normal you know otherwise sensible americans who are just hurt because their guy lost and it doesnt feel good to lose especially when you know something your chest that youre the greatest for 4 years and so those people are stung from that and it will take them time to get over it but we will see him mention we will go back to business as usual in washington where he ate like i think im a disagree with me for a lot. A lot of republicans term still is their leader ok i mean for better or worse im not going to im not going to make a judgment here but also its also very clear that a lot of democrats are a lot of republicans in congress are not particularly popular or even interesting people i mean and its really if you really look at the diff seriously if you look at the defendant lets we can take fox ok over the last over during the time he was in office your job and i mean really republicans came out night after night and backed the rich and the president speaking and its like maybe half a dozen ok i mean most people most republicans cannot name more than 2 or 3 people in congress. And the Republican Party is so i mean i think it is leaderless right now but for a lot of republicans trump is still their leader and its going to be difficult for the Republican Party to resolve this go ahead here well this is why this is why this upcoming. Thank you actually i think that there is a larger point to what you just said peter which is the fact that i dont think that the platforming of trump was the beginning of the end i think that was the end of the end i think at the beginning of the end was when fox news turned on him and completely dialed down the trump rhetoric and the Trump Supporters of the right on your show i think that big media in general has been just throttling back trump completely and now if you want to get back into the limelight hes really got a comp with either his own Media Network and his own social Media Network and hes been completely wiped away before its well i mean it may happen it may not but i think that this is i think that the democrats have are seen the lesson here i think the lesson of the democrats are learning if you agree with Speaker Pelosi even when Speaker Pelosi insults the Green New Deal and insults congresswoman cortez she still went back and said oh no shes calling it a dream in a good way shes not into. Soaping me and because of that because of that willingness to embrace Speaker Pelosi and the democratic establishment a socialist like congressman cortez has gotten far more Media Attention than the other socialist in the Senate Bernie sanders who has been there for decades who got no Media Attention until he was able to pull it up himself and then got squashed by the Democratic Party i think that the quote of quote squad their goal is to become the norm in the Democratic Party i agree with you there george but i think that they are playing a really really long game which really means or incremental absolutely we truly mean that theyre generally were just taking her word and spirit ok will it do this in the 100 years love its a look its only a matter of time its only a matter of time until we have a president a o c a o d a o e a o f i mean thats going to happen one day well i think it will and let george lets kind of discuss that i mean they took it away from bernie twice why would they take that away block and i dont as the in saying i mean but bernie is like you know the dyed in the wall socialist has been has been there forever even have any. Any media savvy and the way that this socalled squad does i mean the face is changing this young you know sort of a cultural face of the party is going to force to be reckoned with and if you join the republicans going to have to figure out how to deal without without just trying to raise money to fight against i mean alexandria ok so cortez has been the greatest fundraising gift to these republicans that you could ever ask for much more than senators for example but it is a sure bet at the same time the goods remember recent history here is that you know. There was this movement in the comedian jimmy door and other progress progress here pushing force the vote and you know it was you know you know a razor thin margins you know put pressure on palosi and they all caved like a house of cards ok i mean it was so much smoke but mitt and no he. Ok yeah and so it seems to me that the corporate a lock hold on the Democratic Party its the its there i mean this is one of the things i find very hilarious you know because it took the lurch to socialism no its the continuation of neo liberalism on steroids because they have a jew year window and thats what they want to push right here we want to jump into you both agreeing or get well i mean. Right. I mean this whole i frankly i find the whole socialism talking point comical i mean when when i did you know logic unfortunately about you know a budget is 10100 years late to the party my got my friends you know you talk about a budget a fortune in dollars of which half of which is spent of which half is spent on medicare and on Social Security essentially you know thats 2 trillion dollars a year spent on programs and you still the private insurance to cover it i mean thats like socialism but just done really really badly so this is just you know its just the word being used for political entity that not just for her its another word for her because im on my side i think i agree with your sentiment is going to make sure that that im clear on my position on this which is that this is absolutely not socialism and the Republican Party has gone on and the mainstream establishment right with them from talking about Mainstream Media in calling basic keynesian economics socialism its absolutely not socialism it is capitalism i think that if you actually saw a socialist solution to the it due to our problems such as what youre talking about peter like a universal health care or which would be even be a real social solution at this point it would just upgrade the u. S. To 1st world status like every other country in the world and its not really that socialist but in the middle of a pandemic were still not getting basic progressive proposals like canceling rent but that has to be done during the pandemic in some if its a matter because people are going to have battery to do and theyll be massive. Actions are has to be a policy in place for that i dont think theyre going to have one or stupid one on what i think is really our sort of agenda that were just not seeing. This should be a bipartisan thing you know a 12 month 18 month you know National Unity got to get through this year because if you dont have an economy that is not going to have been tax base did not have a tax base then all of the goodies that everybody wants is not going to be there i mean that but that peter thats a debt of National Unity 12 to 18 month nationally and thats a dead letter with the state of the country right now i agree its just so completely divided and not ready to the point that people dont i dont want to watch the inauguration and i thought i didnt think lady gaga sang the song well because biden is the president i mean you know its to this level its so petty its really its you know as i keep saying to people its like you know baseball doesnt care who wins the world series only fans of the carowinds the world series so its business as usual. Oh well you know its because of this kind of false consciousness about politics you know and you know it you know trump resides in everyones brain free of charge ok in the end this is whats kind of what weve gotten down to i mean im sick and tired of talking about donald trump i think weve got to get back to talking about whats his name who were talking about whats his name what id expect that exactly thats how frankly though thats how people should be behaving right now hes i forgot i said as a republican i said that a good hour a day was why did no harm great i did that on your discussion on joe bidens call for unity state with r. T. Just on the issue of who is in in the white house which is to the issue for us is what do you do if you look at the j c. P. O. A its not just a signature that counts in the case of people in the new cutey but in fact the impact of that particular should take effect of that signature and were waiting to be making to. If they have if they return to duty with full effect benefiting to iranian people knowing that their policy or backs him on pressure has already failed then we are willing to go back to the full terms of the. Secret prisons are not usually what comes to mind when thinking about europe however he even the most prosperous can be deceived within this 0 song there were 2 view houses were. Preserved was located and the only people had access to the story for investigators sure hell they uncovered the darkest dealings of the secret services but i mean. The great of nor in. D. C. Maybe a sore knee before. Trying for justice on oxy. Welcome at the crossed up for all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were talking about bidens call for unity. Very again let me go back to you you know lets talk about the trump supporter ok now again you know the Mainstream Media is not its not prone to its actually programmed to go hyperbole ok and weve had over the last couple of days since the tragic events of january 6 of you know what to do with the trump supporter and deprogramming and all this and i find that to be pathetic and obviously counterproductive one of the things i truly lament gentlemen is that after the election all the way up to the certification of the electors even up to the inauguration i think the biden orbit and i think the Democratic Party should have said you know. We should have had a organized effort to explain to discredit will trump voters what happened in this election ok i dont know what happened in this election gentlemen one thing i know for sure there were a lot of ballots out there and that is a problem here and so i think that you know coming up to the events of the 6 of 6 anyway you know should have explained to people there were disappointed now is there precedent for that i dont really think so but it was too important because now we have a very a country that is so divided and said im just saying you know you know banning any one person talking about you know stop this deal stop to see i will explain why was it not stone ill give you ask me a question i will give you evidence that should have been done that could have created some unity here is that reasonable go ahead. Well. I im not sure about that but i do know that the way that big tech in particular and the Mainstream MediaCompanies Went after this is by simply deep battering people canceling then censoring then making so they dont have a platform at all i mean that to me is very problematic because you have people that are already worried that maybe their guy was screwed over and then theyre just off social media completely i mean the conspiracy theories had a field day and theres only january 6 right but i think whats really important to understand is from the left and im an independent leftist on the socialist and im certainly not of the Democratic Party we are being canceled and censored in deep platforms as well my organization in baltimore a Peoples Power Assembly was just the platform last week along with socialist Workers Party very left leaning party and in u. K. And now were seeing members of the socialist Equality Party here in the u. S. Also being the platform so i think there is a reprogramming going on but i think its to center everyones attention on that mainstream centrist agenda and engine really really really annoying because in the Peoples Power Assembly we were throwing very large black lives matter rallies peaceful into the streets and marching on the streets in the thousands and now because facebook is censored us most of those people that saw on facebook saw that so a calendar event will not be able to see anything that happened all summer long so i think theres an agenda here the agenda is that there is one voice and if the establishment ways if you go outside of that mainstream on the left or the right you know youre off your ticked off it that they dont want to hear about it i think its so i mean for me to see if youre a neo nazi or a holocaust denier i mean personally i would like to see laws about Holocaust Denial in this country you know my grandparents what role were to one of jewish descent that makes perfect sense to me but then we need police to enforce those laws we dont need social media or big check in forcing those laws theres. Plenty of. The 2nd to mentors out there you know who are championing or cheering not a race war and stopping arsenals in their basements right now who actually i thought were going to emerge on january 6th i dont understand where they were to be frank with you but they didnt hear anything that really supports no while they did yeah i mean we should all be lucky because i think it could have been a lot worse but the biggest problem is that then congress and the general government you know the federal in general has just said were just going to let facebook deal with this which is going to twitter deal with this which is going to yell at them until they get back from people there was no actual work done at the federal level around actually going after writing ill be honest and you know i dont want i dont you know i dont think the constitution should be replaced with the terms and services. As a stablished by twitter and facebook ok their terms of service has not a substitute for the constitution and thats what is happening here i dont trust you know you know if they spoke in twitter i mean. They dont strike me as being particularly intelligent people ok i know theyre they they want power and they want money ok i dont want and i dont think they should be given the keys to make the decisions ok i find that really problematic you know george and the thing is the you know this deep platforming oh it does is it creates a a a tribal mentality and i agree its very upbeat and it reinforces their coming for me there could be one day out i agree with that but a couple things 1st ill take your point about the ocean they just explain i mean peter thats like my parents trying to explain to my 11 year old self that nintendo doesnt she im people just made up this narrative that was cheating in the election and ill be holding that but theyre also fortini trump but do you doubt that youre demeaning 70000000 people by saying that its what my point is george well because not all the wealth you will get people to get outside italy to get over or its too important ok in the end effort should have been made because its too important he go you know the institution survived to date i think thats thats. The most the thing the thing that we should be most grateful for is that even judges appointed by trump you know struck down clearly without without without even breaking a sweat to say you know these these cases dont have any merit and im sure that if if he ends up getting impeached and he ends up getting barred from running for office again he appealed to the Supreme Court im sure even the 3 judges he put on the core will say sorry bub but you know these are the rules and you know it will work for another is going to work against you so you know that needs to be kept in mind the question here is for the republicans and what i think is a huge missed opportunity from day one if you look at everything in the context the 2024 primaries ok. There was no moderate republican who would not talk about mitt romney or Susan Collins who have always been kind of squishy im talking about you know a governor of a state who fancies himself a contender for the for the presidency in 2024 to have come out and held the flag to say sorry guys we lost and to take it like real men and women and move on ok biden won the election were going to fight him to make sure that we dont have a complete democratic over washington we need to fight for those 2 Georgia Senate seats in georgia of course that didnt happen i think thats you we can argue that all day long whether that whether trumps you would have been like to do a little bit more and expand it it doesnt make any way anyway theres a huge there was a huge missed opportunity for somebody to pick up and carry that flag to say guys sometimes you win sometimes you lose this guy unfortunately the biggest loser in a generation is the 1st president 28 years that lost reelection its really crappy that he was our flag bearer were going to do better next time and in heres what heres my vision for the Party Going Forward now if you look at that in the context of the upcoming impeachment trial which is going to be really interesting because you basically need 17 republicans to vote there to impeach him now frankly if theyre smart they will do that because even the likes of ted cruz and josh holly they dont want trump running in the propulsion primary and they certainly dont want trump running as a 3rd Party Candidate they want the field clear for them to pick up this whole trump ism thing and take the head of it if thats possible to be done so its in their interest to get trump out of politics altogether i just i just cant see that is the scenario here right now i think this this 2nd impeachment is such a farce and i mean if the chief justices and essentially this is what the Supreme Court speak those folks persons have already sent advantage just as robert shows up in the senate you would be if his reading of the constitution would be you want me to preside over the impeachment of biden because he is the president if you look at the constitution it is present tense the current president not a past president here this is our son and i you know what i think. I think its i dont disagree that they dont have a way where in a ng on here if we want unity what is the point of going your political logic is Crystal Clear and i agree with that completely but its not up to just the 17 republicans theres 70000000. 00 plus voters out there that feel differently and that is you know that whatever that theres so many different scenarios that could be played out here but the Republican Party is playing with huge fire in a really big way and they may lose both ways to its very very interesting but i think that if you want unity you need to back up this thing here ok hes down hes out ok why and so what are we to do talk about donald trump for another year and a half until we get to the midterms is that really thing we want to do i got it i got to say i actually disagree with george and i i didnt think id be coming on the show to talk about republican politics but here we are and this is what you call oddball the display of what if i cannot be there because the Governor Hogan here in maryland has certainly been trying to fill that gap for quite some time he was very critical of trump throughout the. End of the election and beyond saying that you know the vote was fair you know he was trying to take that role i think youre seeing governor christie a former governor christie may turn on him in the middle of the of the after election math and he could take that role and he was getting a lot of air time because of that he was getting your time before that too in a very interesting way and i now youre going to see. How could he see enders running for arkansas so thats another avenue for trump is all that its going to be really interesting to see if they how far the agenda goes i think holly for example and maybe cruz have step too far for the establishment they just step one step out of bounds ali taste it a couple steps at a bounce cruise cruises cruise i think they want to come back i mean who cares if you get there and theyre going to raise a lot of money theyre going. Raise a ton of money for their own their own objectives so they dont play trump is raising money for himself trump is raising thats the thing is what im saying if this is what im saying i get what peter saying that the whole thing is a farce but farce or not its in their interest to get him out of the way for everybody in the markets. Though because this is this is this is really important to say trump is the right wing populist that people have been asking for for a long populism is something thats strong in his country something if you want for a long time so your both parties have resisted trump became the right wing populist voice because he will buck the party and on top of that hes now c f the party to be frank with you ill make my own party if you guys dont give me back my microphone and hes going as far as he possibly can to screw the party on the way out the door there is no one in the Democratic Party thats willing to do that thats why theres no populist left wing agenda in the Democratic Party theres no that that that that that supposedly left wing is all about culture its not about economics you dont need that populist agenda in the left in our on the left or in the Democratic Party because theres no one willing to say this was not willing to say give Us Universal Health Care and up and down the door or any of your you are not going to say that last 30 seconds george. Again we have to look at all of this in the context of whats going to happen midterm elections and the next president ial elections you know you have you have a president its not clear that hes going to run again its not clear that said theyre going to clear the field for a couple hours i disagree with ian that those theyre going to lie down like a good little good little pussycats this whole squad this left wing i think thats going to continue to emerge in the more and more vocal and i think the republicans there needs to be a moderate voice and i think its in their interest to get trunk up lately out of the way ok and i think youll recover from that actually stronger called and i dont reckon theres a lot of scenarios that could be played out i hope to talk to both of you again on one of those scenarios could be where you want to thank my guests and i want to linger to peters watching us here are you see next time remember across the rules. Lets imagine that everything that we learn about the world fits not right so as we learn more and more because we are learning more and more design and grows now as any good eyes on the island is surrounded by an ocean in this case is the ocean off the unknown of stuff we do not know the right and a paradox of learning and this is why the point is that as the island grows devalues between what hes known and what is not known is also growing