Transcripts For RT Going Underground 20240711

Hostility toward russia per chance. They see company stay with r t a day said half an hour. Im after a time they were going underground as britains code recovered pm Boris Johnson flies to brussels to try to negotiate with the largest trading block in the world and as this country tries desperately to stem a worse coronavirus death for capita rate than trumps usa or both are now as brazil coming out of the show 42 years since the communist party of china voted Deng Xiaoping paramount leader of the peoples republic paving the way for lifting 800000000 people out of poverty we speak to the britain who introduced foster care to the global superpower of the 21st century it is routinely defamed in the west for terminating us. And is the un predicts coronavirus may push of a 200000000 more people into extreme poverty we speak to a book a long list of novelist about his portrayal of londons underbelly of ultraviolet crime arguably created by upper class political ideology and ask why politicians in the media get Violent Crimes so wrong all this more coming up in todays going underground of 1st as china looks to the stars after a successful moon landing and with its Public Health Vaccine Program looking to be the largest in history on top of lifting 800000000 people out of poverty will nations look to the peoples republic not just for Public Health but for the organization of society itself joining me now is Robert Glover o. B. E. Whose new book as many as the stars a story of change for the children of china charts the openness of china to respond to new methods of development for children he joins me now from norwich a norfolk rubber welcome to going underground china in the news probably more of a coronavirus but people will know that chinas one child policy arguably may have helped it become the superpower of the 21st century people are going to be surprised when reading your new book that there was no fostering program. And for children one of the side effects of that one child policy before you turned up on the scene well thats right thank you very much for having me yes when we landed in china they would point the musea had known no understanding of sources of course most of the children that were either abandoned or found their way into care ended up in institutions and for the very few little younger babies got the opportunity for International Doctrine but there was nothing happening in the message in china now i know you write about your child in oratory speaking to me from now but the book tells of how you were a navy and Royal Navy Submarine a juror in the cold war why is it you didnt seem to have any of the prejudices which are arguably being thrown about now i mean Boris Johnson has just put 6 enough 1000000000 extra into the military budget and says china is an adversary well why did it not affect you that china is an enemy its not some country that you need to go out there and help the hundreds of thousands of children that you felt after all work from an early stage when i was a teenager most teenagers look to hollywood and the United States you know for their attraction are i was just fascinated by this this culture that had gone for centuries very mysterious very interesting their interests and i think once i found i was there you know how we perceive the chinese is not the way the people on the ground are the people i certainly were worked with are are the most humble generous kind hearted and seeing the culturally intricate nature of their Family Networks and how they make up traditionally the community was fascinating because as we said god and football big facets of this story. Take us back to when you arrive in hong kong because you paint a nightmarish picture of british rule dong kong you talk about. Triad gangs and. The kind of crime ridden on kong that was very different we see today when we talk about hong kong being encroached by the chinese authorities but what was ongoing. Well i mean again today hungary is my favorite city in the world amazing it is an amazing city in the sense it has everything it has this infusion of west and east together and high and i expose my fascination really was more about the lady that was working with the triads this sort of area that was Neither China nor hong kong and yet shed sort of given our lives to go and sit alongside each of them are some of the most brutal people in the work on the earth and it was as young girl that went and worked with them and and just could form some of their lines and she was it incredible i think she was a great inspiration to so to me and you know now central to what you and your charity have done arguably maybe this line in the book you talk about something called the more established n. G. O. S and Organizational Group think what do you mean by that when it comes to helping the disadvantaged around the world maybe not even just in china yes our i think its sometimes understanding how we should work when we go into development my message always was when i spoke to the government was look these are your children theyre your responsibility therefore you need to you know step up and well support you willing courage you will help you make the transformations but ultimately to be sustainable mr t. J. There you go to our own this what does it make you feel when you watch socalled Mainstream Media there now in the big accusation certainly on their statement that the b. B. C. Is chinas a genocidal country wiping out some statistics that have been subsequently discredited by other sources say hundreds of thousands of their populations and let alone that somehow things were better under the british in hong kong you say in the line communism if nothing else provided a safety net and youre talking of course theyre about the most vulnerable. Yes and and and i guess this is an area rather a through my 20 years in china that you have to navigate through you know you live in china i remember being in kansas city when they announced that beijing and got their lympics and the current shot of the americans you know coming on the radio as i was driving our smarting in my face i think this is not the china i know im not advocating communism by any means but what i am saying is when i went to india i felt everything that for through the net there was nothing to stop people literally dying on the streets and in the slums of mumbai the difference being in in a nation the size of china and india is if nothing else. Communism acted as a safety net to some of those people that were falling through the net well you know when it comes to our historically socialized ideas of social care in this country since 1905 youre probably aware that here in britain the number of u. K. Children in care is rising 20000 in a decade while in china its decreasing i dont know whether youve taken on a credit for that 1000 what do you make of that disparity well i think it is about the focus unease about the focus of of looking at a system and lord lambing whos my previous boss always said that if this system does not meet the needs that you are then you have to change the system theres no good trying to fit the children in something thats not working and i think that was very much about what we developed in china with the chinese they learned very quickly they say the in the other interesting thing is when i met with them in government. We became quite friendly and sociable and i used to say trouble you lot youre a communist country with 1300000000 catholics and they would laugh and agree and so there is a sense in they can do have attitude in china theyre once they understand something that works they really make it work and they really push forward so i think for the chinese theyre very industrious theyre very entrepreneurial and theyre very quick to make things change right across the nation so i think the shanghai park project was 5 years and the next 15 years transformed the whole nation and that because thats because it came from the top and the people at the bottom were. Industrious enough to make it happen and see children moved out of institutions and into families we go through every an example one capitalist actually came of the criticism on this program because of his concept against the president of venezuela mut Richard Branson. Apparently and you thank so many people for getting cafeteria and to where it is today sell me how not only did it help you Richard Branson money but may have helped Virgin Airlines after 911 well i like to think i mean richard was right enough to take the risk emitted time the project was funded by the British Government Department International development and they put the initial funding into. How the projects the part of project in shanghai and you know we talked to a lot of people but it was Richard Branson that literally flew out to shanghai came and had a look at the project and decided he would support it of course later i find out that you know he wins you know how sneakily present this to the British Airline and windsor route to shanghai which given the fact that we had 911 and most of his routes with america shanghai might have been one of the saving grace so everyone. In a way just finally how many countries is it now that that then geo is working in and you talk about actually going to a north korea and helping children that arrive or even to north korea. The north korean government asked the Chinese Government to go are prepared to go ive been twice chinas a big influence in asia and often ending a work in china picks up the ears of other nations and governments so initially in thailand for instance interesting that the government was quite slow and then we had an audience with the king the king of thailand which was quite inspirational and he decided within half an hour that. We should we should carry ourselves in in thailand and what taken months of negotiation literally was signed the next day and all that came about through our. Iraq patron prince michael of course who has very good links with russia following on from that we were invited by the the enemys government so we just started last year with the vietnamese government theyre very ambitious they want to see half of their children moved out of institutions and this year weve been working with cambodia where were hoping that the British Government Development Overseas development will get behind us because its going to be a big challenge and that were going to im not sure about that a budget right now i understand there is a documentary about charting the creation. Of half a children so as a b. B. C. Producer there but this documentary get us 5 children follows their lives big grills and you know the adventure of ease of one who is their ration and we go back my wife and i go back in 2018 and we meet these farms youre absolutely inspirational comes and thats why you do me thats to do with the families one little girl i remember lying on the floor with an orphanage with Cerebral Palsy they didnt think she could go in the family when i went back they the parents how we would cry fraud on their faces that shed gone to the sydney Paralympic Games and want to go medal i mean water story and as we were there in their little apartment she gets a gold medal and she puts it over my head and just reduce me it is. Amazing actually one story of a 1000000 rubber glove thank you after the break good they was as u. K. Pm Boris Johnson prepares to lengthen prison sentence as we explore the broken systems in the u. K. That have created a world of Youth Violence not shown by any media from the perspective of someone who was at the heart of it and ask why our politicians have got it wrong for so long all of them are going on about him going on the. Welcome back about one we heard have china has revolutionized the way it protects the human rights of children but what about the u. K. Where were broadcasting from who they was a new booker prize long list a tell me autobiographical novel from more of a gabriel craft explores the world of Violent Crime in london in a way that you wont see in socalled Mainstream Media and examines the systemic problems that drive people into a life of crime from austerity and privatization to the ever increasing Class Divisions in the u. K. Going underground have the other to charlie cook caught up with crowd and started by asking him about the novel it was a sin not with us partly based on my own lifes kind of between the ages of 17 and 23 when i was heavily involved in gang culture and criminality in North West London and bias not just about my personal story although the kind of central theme of it is the story of disarray hes from from a family of ownership immigrants in london and of navigating the london town of dan underworld while at the same time doing a degree in university but beyond that its also a novel that kind of opens a window on to the world of gang culture in london which i know far too often is only represent it in a very kind of short brief and constrained kind of reports in the media and as a particularly Violent Crime or as its if you know the continuous series of gang related incidents that stabbings and shootings in the capital and what i really want to achieve with this book was the end of open a window into that world and into the complexities the human complexities of the experiences and the moral challenges faced by People Living in those kind of environments the critical reception of the book seems to often home in on the idea that you were leading a socalled double life that i thought you said there wasnt a double life it was just in your life do you think in a way thats a kind of condescension in that the seeming that youre being very kind of like books and street smart is 2 things that are necessarily go together. Exactly i think i think theres a big problem with that and the sense that kind of reflects the way in which society seeks to kind of keep a distance and of course criminality is d something that causes a lot of problems within society but. Something that has existed in Human Society or you know thousands of years ultimately. I think the idea that for example somebody called go to university in degree or even just the concept that somebody cant be educated and somebody cant be a complex character with lots of conflicting aspects to their personality and at the same time be involved in criminality and education is kind of a reflection on the way in which society would prefer to kind of narrow down the reasons why people get involved in that lifestyle and really and truly theres a huge range of reasons why people get on boats and in that lifestyle and the people involved in those lifestyles are people full of complexity so under saying later you know people in normal life feel a longing loss yearning compassion you know people fall in love that evergreen that happens to gang members and people involved in criminality years well you know so i think that as a kind of issue in terms of how people hone in on the facts they want to you know they seek to kind of analyze their book and i call in the let me being involved in the criminal life and going to university is a double life but the reality is it wasnt a double life that got just simply was my existence and also theres theres another kind of negative aspect that i see in terms of the way in which a lot of people who focus on analysts or at least critics focus and analyze in the book initially and the focus initially is upon me and the lifestyle da da used to live you know which the book is based on i. E. The lifestyle of being involved in criminality in gang culture and actually what ive written is a work of literature and id actually prefer critics to analyze it. From the perspective of being a work of art because a work of art allows people to kind of find the humanity underneath the layers of Human Experience how courses were you when writing the book not to kind of glamorize the lifestyle youre writing about to make it kind of as realistic as it could be but also not glorify or well i think taxi right and describe the realism of that lifestyle automatically doesnt clarify and i think i mean im sure some people think that glorify that i think evil who think that glorify violence or gun culture in the book of people who are largely on comfortable with the moral complexity of it and they dont want to face up to to the kind of moral confrontation because also you know ive referred before in this interview already to the fact that the book is opening a window but in the sense of however in the book im not opening this window and gently inviting the reader into the world opening the window and then grabbing the reader and dragging them into this world and not giving them a choice to kind of walk away from it i mean the only way to walk away from missed put the book down. But i think i dont think that writing about that lifestyle and that well realistically can example i see it because its very unglamorous its full of pain its full of hardships full of self destruction one of the things that returns to again and again seem wise is that people outside this life com possibly really understand and youve already said that the book opens with a robbery and it immediately shows a kind of cost of 5 between the rich and the poor and you say and im a woman those people have never thought about your characters so why should you think about them how important is classed as a theme in your bag i think crosses such an important to some extent because of how British Society works in terms of Class Divisions and the judgment and listen that comes within the context of those cross the visions and times of how people separate themselves socially and have. People judge of was so should the offing for me the biggest division in the context of the book and in terms of discussing that world is the division of understanding and the division of empathy because this issue jack of empathy and of course its not this is not to take anything away from victims of crime of course you know when we talk about victims of crime its easy to end the pfizer the victim of crime but its very difficult and pfizer the perpetrator there is a huge divide i think socially in terms of understanding and empathy and the way in which people who understand the complexity of Human Experiences know its not as well myself in terms of sun and people who criticize the book just for the fact that it reveals a lot of violence and covers a lot of violence and that that reflects the you know the violence in the book is a completely realistic portrayal thats far more violence in his own happened on the streets of london than what is necessary to be portrayed in the book and of course stop causes a lot of problems for people because they dont want to kind of open their eyes theyd rather think that this is something that because of the riff of their existence and toto out that the media already been in the book youre suspicious of any detail how politicians seem to get at identifying grants with these groups are wrong like i did recently the tories tried to knife messaging on the side of chicken boxes or whatever and yeah why do you think that politicians have got to sour on this saying that because i think it is this tendency to think that coming up with kind of catchy slogans and throwing a lot of money at campaigns of posters im going to change something but if youve been in that lifestyle and youve been an active gang member all of puppetry or of Violent Crime then no message is going to disuse from what youre trying to do because its a much deeper kind of psychological emotion in that world than any kind of post the campaign can on do especially in a rich c. E. That london if youre going from it if you feel disadvantaged in your confront. By the extreme wealth of as you mediately feel a sense of alienation and you feel this sense of not belonging in certain contexts and that can create a lot of anger and resentment in people i think when i actually remember as well actually walking down the kings road in chelsea which is you know one of if not the wealthiest area of london and i saw on the side of a phone box a slogan which said its been my save lives and i just thought to myself how ridiculous it was because 1st of all you know the the young people of the kings road in chelsea are not the 10s of of god and culture and theyre not you know walking out of their houses and being surrounded by a millionaire as fresh as an influence is you know theyre living in extreme affluence and privilege and yet you know the government decides so the council decides or whatever to stop this poster in the film looks as if its going to change something the other aspect as well as if somebody has picked up a knife and not just picked up a knife as a scad nervous child about you know pick up a knife and commit it to to actively engaging in gang war and gang conflict will they carry a gun for example you know a post that i suddenly see which says knife saves lives its not going to change their opinion and i think you know i cant really sit here and say that ive put on sr these things because im not trying to portray myself as a moral crusade oh i do think for example exposing people to to the arts and to culture that for example taking people from you know very underprivileged environments and you know painters and mega environments taking them to the fair taking them to our gallery staking them to museums taking them to the countryside taking them to the seaside basically exposing people to things that they dont see on a regular basis in their environments in enabled that have a strong and heavy gun presence that can begin to kind of undo to the sense of that pressure and and that sense that one doesnt have many choices in certain situations which is why a lot of young people off base that is very easy i just have to. That is low that is you know its very easy for adults that pontificate and and to sit within the comfort of having the wisdom of age and time having costs and to kind of look down on young people who get involved in this lifestyle and be very dismissive and seek to criticize them which i think also says some critics of my book in my writing have ive tried to do that because they just find that they find so morally challenging that its easy to kind of criticize and denigrate its very easy to do that but when youre young and youre involved in that lifestyle it can seem like a very enclosed loaded got doesnt have many ways out if any at all i just want to ask you about the by the way that represents prison for you mentioned soccer is something now more famous for kind of protest and trace mass ups but the way that your represents present how hard is it to write about something that as you say in the book is indescribable i think part of why i wanted to convey in my writing when i wrote about prison is the emptiness of the experience and how its kind of like a death of the soul when you go into prison like you know everything that the outside world gradually dies and and i can imagine i mean i was in prison for a long period of time but i can imagine that people spend you know us in prison that outside world starts to die and theres this very weird culture that has existed i think socially especially in this country i think of talking about prisons as being a soft touch because you know for example some prisoners who have privileges and this is something thats often not mentioned in the media are prisoners who have privileges are allowed for example playstation games and they have t. V. s in their cells and everything and no one talks about how when people go into the wing in a prison that theyre constantly in must in an environment of constant threat and you cant imagine the psychological toll that takes some of us and that you constantly feel under threat and constant if you under pressure known lalo talking about. Constant on reported stabbings and extreme violence that takes place in prison i mean you know if you think that its a soft touch to go into a cell which you only allowed out of one hour a day so you inside oh so 23 hours a day sharing it with another man goes to the toilet in front of another man and youve got a playstation in your cell and you think thats some kind of soft touch you know and people are getting stabbed in the showers and everything a psych this is a total element you know a lot of people who go through the prison system and who go through the experience of being involved in gun culture and criminality ultimately traumatized by their experience and again that is not to take anything away from the victims but simply to you know make people understand that theres a lot more to these experiences than what you read in the in grief newspaper articles that often have a kind of political slant to them i just finally want to ask you about what youre working on that says time out on the 2nd on your current iraq now im currently working on a novel to us about transgenerational trauma because im particularly interested in how the traumas that our ancestors or our distant relatives you know went through in their previous lives can affect future generations. For myself personally being from a polish family particularly fascinated by the effects the warsaw uprising and the experience of my family in living in warsaw and in poland through the 2nd world war which is the country which is completely devastated by the 2nd well who you know they lost basically 525 percent of their population so one in 5 people in poland were basically wiped out during the 2nd world war and i think there are countries and groups of people nations russia as well during the 2nd row who for example nations that go through d. C. Extreme extreme historical traumas have new generations of people that are affected by that and often they are infected by unknowingly and so im fascinated about how to some extent with my own personal history i think. That are inherent you know through my family but also in the widest sense of examining for example d the fact of the holocaust on you know modern day people. Modern agees basically in the wild and how that also links to the existence of the state of israel for example in america and the caribbean the descendants of people who were victims of yet im picks a tree sometimes rather novel thats an exploration of a lot of those themes and also how it links to modern culture today a link to the internet and a lot of people as low a lot of young people to some extent having a lack of understanding of history and yet feeling very strong in the about their own sense of identity even when they where they came from which i think is very important carol thank you so much. And gabriel crowd so theyre going to going underground Deputy Editor charlie cook who they was is out now thats after the show will be back on saturday the eve of nanjing memorial day blocking the massacre of hundreds of thousands of chinese men women and children by just until then remember to join the underground before the from you tube Facebook Instagram and. The f. D. A. 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