A your self described humor engineer and you write books on how to master humor make jokes funny and singular how you are in this wonderful hero of 2020 do you see that the demand for humor is actually rising against a backdrop of the complete mass of everything or not really. Know it it absolutely is and i think part of the reason is you know with people being you know more social a distance and going much more things on earth theyre realizing how much humor that they used to have in their life that theyre now missing because you no longer you know always conversation with your coworkers you dont have to meet up with friends and even with strangers if you are wearing a mask you dont see this smiles in the last on their faces and so i think now more than ever isnt it really into how we use humor not just for our own kind of amusement but also to do things like manage stress and dont relationships and you know all the additional good its you are youve sat in. Talk that humor has to be positive and inclusive but heres the thing isnt humor supposed to be just funny 1st and foremost sin is that that like the most important thing in humor and that Everything Else writes a day so thats true for comedy comedy is the goal is to make people laugh but we think is a little bit more broad than comedy and includes things that are funny but it can also be something thats just a little bit different or something thats a little bit silly where the goal is on usenet and our focus at least you know as a humor engineer in my organization is in humor that youre supposed to be funny or interested in humor that is transformation what you are that using urging humor that its. All me in some ways and ultimately humor that works out its not just about me people laugh but its about getting some type of better interest salt which more inclusive forms of humor certainly help with the workplace as opposed to more forms of humor so were ok but if we focus a little on comedy and im saying lake stand and you know theres late night shows and. Even the you know the comedy is that was coming out if if i have a really good joke lets say which is really nasty at the same time should i never let it sit in light of the day just because in my own we really be positive or inclusive at all. Well you can certainly with your stand up comedian then you let it go right tell that on the comedy stage next intention it dont really make it hold the line a little bit make you laugh you can also do it with friends as a way to create a little bit of catharsis or you know they share your similar sense of humor like some groups like emergency 1st responders so Police Officers firefighters except really sometimes tend to have a little bit of a darker sense of humor as a way to manage the kind of difficulties that theyre going through the stuff that they see and deal with every single day which is understandable but if you are a leader of an organization or youre in a company or you want to build a set of relationships with people that are going to change the type of humor that usenet where all alternately comes down to is what is your goal if you are. Your engineer so we dont think of humor just as a thing for fun but how does it help us to solve challenges either at home or in the workplace and depending on the challenge if you want to solve it might change the type of humor that you may use and ellen job how many feminists is it take to change a light finance or is thats not funny and its my impression that humor has waned having a very hard time lately whenever you want to crack a joke you should really think twice. You know should i say this should i not say these im going to hurt anyone is anyone going to be offended by this why has everybody become so sensitive. Or her or what is to blame. Now its a dead ass and a question and i think you know this year is always involving the humor that was popular in the you know fades and sixtys what we own by bill if you murder is more slapstick it was more physical days that all the more kind of jokes like clear kind of set jokes of set up and punch lines that evolved into more storytelling in authenticity with storytelling and i see i think were just seeing it continue evolution where some of the things that we used to joke about old really were saying well maybe its not actually ok to joke about that made that you know what you think of is is something is a lighthearted joke is really difficult for someone whos had experience that for a long period of time and so i think hes just a cultural change will continue to change will continue all that and part of being in a debt humorist or comedian is adapting to the times and still finding the line and understanding when its appropriate d to cross a line when its not and the workplace is a slave usually not appropriate across the line except for a very some specific scenarios but in a comedy club thats a little bit you know different so getting those back to where youre using next year and what you want to achieve with well ive been talking a lot to comedians a lot especially standup comedians because im writing a book about humor 2020. And i mean humor really if were honest with each other especially in standup comedy with late night shows it gets really funny when making fun of something serious right whether its politics or sometimes in some kind of das or tragedy how does comedy survive if its become too dangerous to be dangers in your jokes i mean a situation where you cant laugh at religion gender skin color Sexual Orientation what is there left to laugh at. Well i think that i am a completed regime especially in the context of comedy that nothing is off limits i dont even say you cant joke about it because they use it as a gift to be the decider but i think out a joke about it is is changing because you know the fundamental kind of concept youre structure with and specifically and stand up is set up and so a set of raising expectations analysts nervous brain and any punch line is that expectation in some way part of the reason for evolution in comedy is that for many years honestly your set up was maybe aggressive towards this particular group and then the punch line changes but you can see you are going this very well i would say even Dave Chappelle continues to kind of gross that line because of how he does a set of the punch line through that are you know the joke is when you really kind of carson and look at it break it down youre realizing that are he has changed where is he talking about asserts like a specific group a lot of times its our it isnt actually next root its societys perspective around it and so becomes how you joke about that particular subject i completely agree with you that i dont think any subject should be off limits and i still like this whole thing with humor has taken unprecedented scale because if you look at what happened with shirley of bill and then just recently a schoolteacher was beheaded in france for referring to shall have the cartoons which you cant get over the top on purpose i mean that no doubt about that i mean i grew up in paris and you know there irreverence in humor would annoy me a lot because im not used to that but at this point like its unclear whether its a cartoonist on our side satirist and humor in general that has sort of protected in a full station like this or do we have to set certain boundaries for humor so that it doesnt provoke outrage that weve seen and seen my reaction have. Swop because last year it was like yeah it was like over the top and then this is here when im saying continuation of days in the beheading even though i dont like that humor i feel like the menu and michael i feel like we should send out for humor to you know what i mean some having let us know cognitive dissonance inside of me when i write i agree with that radio that that best lines between it to be because you know things like. This idea of freedom of speech or freedom of expression doesnt mean freedom from consequences but at the same time someone making a joke you know in your results should not be them losing their legs and so i think theres probably islands of both and i would say its probably more on the scale of peoples reaction because you know it has a as a communicator you have to decide if someone is offended by something thats data for you kind of take in to mine you may not have made to stand by what you said but i understand why might this have been offensive and is that what i want to give you is ok with me so i think the answer is a little bit on both sides and people being willing to take responsibility and recognize that whatever your individual to use are might not be the same as someone elses and where is that kind of Common Ground that we can meet a great difference doubt you murk can help us get there and so thats the other understanding is that you know theres a difference again between a set and punchline of a specific thing and others you hear that we might use and depending on the situation which forms the most appropriate obvious get to what we want to get too long or cases like a more general question but outweighs wonder about it lately what is too much for humor exactly i mean here decides to boundaries of what one can joke about and how. Well its as if its a very difficult question to do the interesting thing about comedy is that it is both very simple and very hard and the question of rock is something funny the answer is it makes someone laugh and so its funny to one person to me very different than what is funny to another person and so each individual person is kind of deciding that and then what youre noticing in this is a particular challenge and i think hey we can all maybe take a step back on is cancel art culture where its like some people are then starting to get upset about jokes or things that they never even actually heard or ever experience are even really offended by but suddenly theyre the homes its kind of mob mentality where its like oh everyones kind of jumping on board with this one person so less like completely like ruin everything that they have into like the i think thats too extreme a certainly how people respond to it so you had this in the u. S. Where someone was written you know and a writer was fired for it s n l he came out some of his old jokes were actually very culturally appropriate and his reaction wasnt about apology it wasnt about like hey you know i didnt mean to offend as more like but im a comedian this is what im supposed to do and the problem is you know sometimes people use a joke as an excuse as you say if its a phase and its not really actually a joke and so you know that satisfying lynette balloting its a case by case basis but it is what you as an individual do and i think we all use that hello or should we cry you know a little bit earlier but its those individual decisions that people are may. Going to take a short break right now when were balco continue talking to. Them or engineer and best selling author talking about how humor is transformed this day stay with us. Seemed wrong. Just told. Me to get to shape out just to get the ticket and engagement because betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for Common Ground. Continuity or change this is what. Considering a potential. Point. Will be the same. Is this all or continuity. In the. Well were back with andrew tara vinge humor engineer bestselling writer were talking about whats happening to humor in 2020 and its really fun its a nominee when i look at the United States because i see all these late night show hosts which i adore and theyre like vibrant smart. Intelligent really funny hilarious guys and for the past year and a half or so i just see how theyre stuck because they really can joke about anything and they think people in america are even more sensitive than anywhere else in the world on the topics that are like you know feminism matters and all of that thats going on like the whole new ass fix rate that is our reality becoming our reality and so what they were left with is trump if you joke about anything else you get you know youre fired or taken off air and but you can joke about trump because thats ok and that helps the country well its for trump because he has become so popular because of that degree. Weiser a very common use perspective as well as just the sheer amount of. Wrong has you know not. Just for us and what people talk about it something that constantly like at least rank for me in the u. S. I didnt think about the president our country and all that often like it would certainly come up but you know over the last 40 years there probably went for us every single day has come up in some shape or form whether thats a news story or eos a comedienne saying a certain day or that you know perspective and so it is interesting that it is creating a lot more awareness and you know just that person being advised i think or at least by me and are talking about it is because when everyone elses song so its kind of an insecurity a challenge i think youre seeing an interesting creative evolution of comedy both through because of subject matter because of things like politics and her technology might be part of sarah who wears rise misbehave some day and do things a little bit differently right he has gained kind of that lindsay again bang where tight and if thats whats interesting about winning games become more restrained and when she used to right when this is breaking norms not necessarily in a good way it becomes hard for a satire he says the national sas you write isnt as extraneous like the reality is and so scary humor and add to that by just saying im going to change any word on im going to pretend like this person is saying Something Else and is going to say it word for word it has a different kind of performance to it and so you are seeing kind of unique case and that has rightness rating a different set of different expectations and rating next and i think bad the evolution that were same but i completely agree that there is tremendous as you can say ok lets talk about Something Else we is comediennes or commentators or entertainers etc get help to shape what it is what are people so is saying on and at 8. Pm on allowing them to kind of giving them that platform going to be very it alls. I want to elaborate a bit about what ive just sat i was talking recently to frederick back better than the novelist and his last novel is actually about the humor and he told me that the importance of comedy these days can be explained by the side of the politicians cannot really handle the situation well enough also looking like clowns themselves and its to comedians who are becoming the voice of Public Opinion who are influencing this opinion just as well do you agree. Really i mean there is there is certainly even for the past 1020 years or so people kind of considered comedians as the philosophers of our time they are the people who are spending and inordinate amount of faking about a subject and i mean whats a way to communicate is that people actually listen and i think thats true because and you see this and other places around the world it sure can be a great way to speak roots of power where you can take a little bit of the edge off of something thats actually true that you want to say by adding a little bit of a humor component and a lot of truth is said in jest where its like you say a little bit of joke but people are like oh ashley. Why is that why is that what i hate youre also seeing it so youre seeing them by a couple of individuals but youre also seeing have almost this. Is all its use of humor that i dont think that weve always seen through things like mena culture mediated now is arising and they used by you know people on the left and the right center gone back all it takes it was used by Bloomberg Campaign in the United States isnt necessarily were right it was like were going to hire a bunch of white young 20 somethings to be created by new means to try to create and get this message out there and so you are seeing this change in terms of how some of that humor is executed but in general comedians yes i think are theyre great philosophers and youre seeing it like you said in the news programs a lot of people arent getting their news necessarily at least younger people arent getting any yet and theyre getting it from aaron ellen that early show theyre getting it from these mediums to enjoy more comedic shows in brainy on an active you know continuing my conversation with bag but theyre here also compare the Current Situation and the role comedians playing are alive today with the orchestra of titanic which continues to play while the ship is sinking. Ship going down as well and since to comedians cannot really stop it from going under is laughing about it they only way to accept the united will. Or i dont i big laughter laughing about something is a great way to make it so that it doesnt have control over you and it is actually one of the you know the disadvantage is to strictly how many human humor and some sense is that youre relieved tension and so that can be a great thing when youre very stressed but it can also lead to a lack of. Wind not kind of kept in check and if you think about it if you think back to kind of the traditional days of being monarchy that kind of thing they intentionally it has gotten jester court jester because that was someone who could. Make everyone laugh relieve some of that tension so that they didnt rebel you see the same thing initially the initial reason for karbala and some countries was to say ok hey randy. And crack down on people for a war 11 months of the year or if you this one month of celebration so you get out all that asian innings i mean everything that in that moment so they dont rise to power and so i think thats the disadvantage and so you have to understand that again goes back to being an older more player not the purpose of her humor not just allowing it to be me and going down with the ship and like youre going to laugh all this is off to you but i believe they have that next step and thats why we focus on humor is that it doesnt stop at hey you made you laugh and now that youre laughing youre listening and what do we do with your attention it is often to say hey we made you laugh can buy or can we implant kind of the idea of a cd maybe we can all be a little bit better maybe we could all be a little bit more compassionate about each other or you see this also with the last week tonight and john oliver is that every episode ends with some type of small part of you know go to the u. R. L. Donate to this saying or whatever so youre starting to see his evolution where people are saying ok now that what you do is its his night when hes trying to transport that to some type of change. You know since it is much easier to lothar about your president or environment and kind of shrug it off behind a good joke than actually to get up and do something about it can humor and joking about everything actually to complacency satele isnt exactly and so thats thats a component of complacency is a great way to put it right if you really are too much of that tension and thats where the purpose of that humor right to go then additional next step if you want to create change youve seen that in his own death rainbird so theres a believe. The story comes from serbia but its a situation where the group cut off or and maybe is usually use humor not as a way to kind of just say lets for at least 10 as a gamer who are getting people to comment you kind of this 90 ill standing up to it and they use humor to kind of hold on to the danger but they made it sometimes that more people would be wanting to get involved because they had it where its like ok yes if youre going to you know protest against something or to just kind of out there standing but instead if you had a humor component to it and you say we know this is is not to say that the situation isnt serious well that with a little bit of fun we can make it is actually more meaningful more impactful because well get more people involved because. Entertainment. You know i think were going through the worst crisis might experience during our lifetime like saying how this pandemic is transforming actually everything from the way we communicate war or our values does it i guess since forming dhume or as well i mean will it be different from what it was before 2020 and if yes how. And i think that it will i mean it humor is just like so many things is always a ball game and i think culturally its a logging and i think the the overlying rights and optimist i think by my grandmother is like the most optimistic person that ive ever met and i think that kind of like holds true for me some always kind of thinking about what is a Silver Lining in this nation a part of it is the elevation of the status of humor i think like i said earlier because were not having the same forms of release that we used to have if you think about you know weve got more stress than ever people are working harder than they probably used to or theyre unemployed but theyre going in a virtual space a lot of times if theyre working from home they dont have that work life kind of separation it feels more like work life survival and you know youre constantly working barely ever turning it off except to see have this increase in stress not made in greeting with a pen and Everything Else flying on but normal loads are leaving that stress are gone and you know you cant go to sporting events at least like you used to even going out to get a drink with friends is now either a lot more stressful or actually impossible to do everything that you used to do is harder even if you want to do in 18 hours thousands of people out on the hiking trails that is the one thing that you can kind of do you and so people are recognizing oh the day that im missing i dont think that theyre quite there yet but i think the long term untapped people seek. Me or if you are my life i need more levity and how do i use it and it basically youll continue to see this kind of democratization of individuals using humor will be less of a focus of oh youre and theres still going to be entertainers and comediennes but i think more people say. You know or the like when they used to say like oh i can never do that or im not funny my hope my goal is that more and more people recognize that oh you know this is a skill it is gillet i can and should learn. And here is how im going to bring in my own personal style im not going to necessarily be a stand up comedian but maybe im going to share more stories maybe im going to do some maybe i did use some dames just a day for myself so that i am able to deal with the challenges that we have every single day andrew thank you so much for this wonderful insight about. Humor 20 twentieths transforming. Its been really interesting talking to you know michel the good luck when they were thing. Well it was fantastic talking to you and love clearly done your research and have a lot of great insight of where it is a life i will say that you know for me i get our focus is out of we as individuals. Ownership kind of our own situation and use humor to help improve it but i also love this conversation on the macro view of where its going so i appreciate it the chance to have a conversation thank you so much and you stay safe. Maybe you kate. Is your media a reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe. Isolation full community. Are you going the right way or are you being led so. Direct. What is true what is faith. In the world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Or a maybe in the shallows. Be a doozy say. A few there on the cheap. And then through and through all that come true so lets ideas the right to go through us come he said if we give them everything slipped into fast. This country. This is what we dont understand how we are in such a country. Let us into the ones that are sometimes. Noticing how come into. The saloon to run up or lose similar. John a good one. Because if you feel if the minutes of kong were not that god can we believe again with the phone about the food without the flame. Would come back to the place story. You have to see. That he. Is going. To. Move you. Must go slams the quote fabricated occupations against journalists of true russian affiliated news websites charged with violating e. U. Sanctions. From supporters rally against what they call rick to results and witnesses testify they may have a very. Bad as the ballots being ran through the tabulating machines numerous times that being counted 8 to 10 times i know it was a return address. On transponder further riled by claims of massive Mainstream Media bias as tapes of c. N. N. Briefings are leaked by a conservative group. Ive been on these calls