U. K. Ambassador martin bell. Martin, thanks so much for coming on. I know youre going on in your own capacity here today. Begins the g. 20 summit. Do you expect yemen to be brought up at the g 20 summit . I certainly do. There are many countries in which the powerful forces arguing against continuing to supply sophisticated systems to the saudi tend to coalition. There is deep concern in many countries, including in the u. K. About the role of the saudi led effort was about attacks on civilians. And i think in the last fight the since the war, theyve been an average of one error, a den reach 10 days, and the targeting seems to be temporary indiscriminate which crucial amine kills a bus, abbas hitch schools and so on. So the concern is the identity of the delegates will be doing their job if they, if they can find that gender of the coronavirus. While Boris Johnson is a minister liz just contended that there are isolated incidents that may have breached international law. Very different from what youre saying. I think its very different from what a lot of people are saying, including observers on the ground and human rights groups. The same still be a accident of indiscriminate attacks, of targeting, going wrong. And i think they, they, this seems to me a forum when this can reasonably be the be raised. Maybe its a good thing that it is happening in saudi arabia because they, they need to, they need to be told and they, i, as i said that the delegates wont be doing their job unless they do raise this issue for the good also. Because, well, morris johnson, when he was foreign secretary said he didnt want independent inquiries into british arms sales to saudi arabia. As regards yemenis and the saudis have a mess, insight into their own procedures and will be able to conduct the most. And vera and conclusive investigations into the kinds of allegations youre making them sick, many people would, would, would agree with that. I think we all have to do what we can look im, im not in politics anymore, but i was for 10 years on the Ethical Oversight Committee of a vicious electronics company. And 18 months ago, i discovered that they were intending to sell what they called stores really, systems to the saudi air force, where theyve been for the contract in the stores being released with weapons. So that point i resigned. I couldnt stay on the board of that company and work for unicef, so we will do what we can and, you know, the house of commons is also going forum to raise these concerns. I havent, i havent heard any convincing defense of these arms sales from distrust from our stance and from, from anybody. Even though there are a must arms sale regimens in place in this country. He even though, has, i said isolated to hinson and i mean, did you do that after you actually visited yemen . As the unicef ambassador, you might have to remind us what you, what you saw when un. Yes, i actually visited. I couldnt go now. Publics, im too old and partly because its too dangerous and its hard to, its hard to get in this with actually 10 years ago that had 6 was in 6 years. And i, so even better, this is before the center is if you gratian of central and requiring this support by the coalition. But i saw the effects even then on these everetts, i held the hand of a 9 year old girl, was suffering from p. T. S. D. , having been bombed in northern yemen. And i, and she didnt know who she was. 00 or where she was. It was, it was a most moving incident for me and it struck me that that will fare happens east the states mostly among civilians. Civilians are often targeted thats certainly often it. And i realize sets the difference between p. T. S. D. In a child and p. T. S. D. In an adult is just that in a child. It lasts longer. Who . Well, britain gives aid for those children. And regardless of the fact oxfam is alleging that the g 20 sales dwarfs the actual aid being given. I think the oxfam report says of the g 20 arms sales to saudia 3 times the humanitarian aid money. Surely you can criticize the British Government for its response to the yemen, humanitarian catastrophe, because it gives so much aid. Oh, absolutely, absolutely im. Im very much on the, on, on the side of the, of the people and it gives of aid and the agencies of course, legislators give more aid, but let us be very careful about south our military exports. They had to be, they have, i think they should be, they should be stopped spending an international inquiry, which i think the United Nations might might well carry out this. Im not for a moment criticising the amount of aid that we give. I am criticising our arms exports and the damage that they do the youve covered more as in your history of war reporting with the r. A. F. I mean, how, how is it possible that if they are half a training these pilots that the pilots could be accidentally, or is it deliberately killing men, women, and children in yemen . And so there is not only the saudis, of course, are they the other countries simply in the coalition. Im not going to criticise a r f, but there would appear to be something wrong with the training if or something defect about it. If they, the, if the targeting goes goes wrong so regularly in time making these appear not to be isolated incidents, but they are parts of any action of wrong targeting. And it just couldnt talk. And i accept that jane in modern warfare. Theres no real distinction. Soldiers have submitted because the war was fought among the civilians and it spread. Now, since i was thats the port city of high data and widely across the country. But i think that we cannot we cannot carry on as we have tonight. I only wish i was still a member of parliament, but i, i know there are plenty of m. P. s waiting to raise. Thats what the world talking about tempered Jeremy Coleman was one who raised it quite a lot. Hes in the news breaks. Its in the news cove, it is in the news. Can you understand why despite unicef and n. G. O. S trying to get this further up, the Mainstream Media news agenda it is failing to make the news in this country. Yes, i do understand that. I watch news broadcasts still quite compulsively, at least one a day. And theres very little in the dating foreign news in the very little about yemen. The wars of africa, the number of countries threatened now by famine you and used to call it food insecurity. And now its now its famine. So the country can the yemenis speak in a context of international dockings. And i do understand how the, i think an agenda of the use of gender is taken into a caption if you like by. They can run a virus. But doesnt stop these humanitarian crises. In fact, the crisis is whistling in, in yemen because if they coronavirus these things, these things interact. Yeah, the London School of hygiene and tropical medicine saying the deaths have doubled in aden because of covidien. Tell me about the scale of the famine because i know you saw famine when you were in yemen, but the figure is now a 24000000 needing Food Assistance out of a population of what 30000000. I think that creates things are getting, getting much worse. The infrastructure has, as has collapsed. You cant have normal agriculture in the middle of a war. Millions of people threatened with death by, by starvation. I think signs and they have died because already its very hard to get the figures because of the crisis on the ground. And even the, even the aid agencies dont have the access to show that satellite imagery is really worrying a freshly dug and dug graves of the, of the victims of the coronavirus. You know, everything. Sometimes i felt when i was in yemen that anything that could go wrong was, was going wrong. And to that know the plague of coronavirus and the famine. And its about as pat is it, as, as he can get. But how can we help . We help by, by foreign aid, of course, we help by helping the aid agencies, unicef, and the others looking after the children. And we will help, i think, by stopping the supply of lethal weapons to the saudi led coalition. However much it costs them are all costs to the xoom. What is the nature of the disconnect . Some might have thought you had become in sensitized desensitized by all the wars youve covered. But it is a fact that Boris Johnson, as foreign secretary, signed off as the sending of munition parts to saudi and saudi arabia, days after civilian deaths were being reported of civilians. So why is it your perspective seems so different . He, you think its so important the home sales, as opposed to the important aid to britain is giving in the same time. I think the onset of us has set over half a century. Ive been caught up in being a witness told or at the fringes of all 19 woes and all respects, same as and havent seen it. Neither has, has his chance. I think i sometimes describe myself as a battle, softened veteran. Im not actually a pacifist, so im some of the way there. But i have seen at 1st hand the misery and the destruction and, and the end it took close damage that will cause you and i find it just fishy trust rating. No, its very difficult to get the attention of the world for anything else other than discrete pestilence, sweeping it and the pestilence. His wessling, the plight of the yemeni. And we have to call hold. We have to, and somehow we got to draw attention to this. Is it not only that they havent seen . The kind of things youve seen is, is money in the, in quaid equation because britain and the British Government apparently are fighting the judicial review after the, after the resumption of a weapon sales that fuel the conflict. There is a judicial review that the campaign is hoping for about weapon sales, because money is part of the equation. Economy is quite significantly sustained by arms exports, not just of course, to saudi arabia but, but, but, but all that was the world and its done by its done by a special license. But again, i think the moral imperative is so great that if there is a cost to the economy, i think it has to be borne. We claim to be as a civilized people. Why are we arming it . Can i put it crudely, the gang that cant shoot straight . If i mean, im still haunted by what i saw in yemen. That was i do that for a few days. You know, i still children, i saw a child dying before my before my eyes to a lack of medical attention. The death toll is, its unsustainable. And if theres a, if theres a hit to the economy as a result, well is a hit to the economy be claimed to be a civilized nation. Civilized nation should not be doing what were doing and were not the only run others are doing it as well. Martin bell, thank you. After the break, after a putin brokered cease fire, we go to the heart of the frozen conflict that were taught. Theyre going to cairo back with Award Winning journalist peter oborne. All the more coming up about 2 of going on the ground its been decades since the fall of spains fascist regime, but old wounds still havent healed in the evenings in the past at the source mean older than just the same cause which we know sells and of newborn babies were torn from their mothers and given away and forced adoption. That only leaves the feaster to this day mothers still search for grown children looking in hope for their birth parents. New gold rush is underway in ghana. Thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields, hoping to strike it. Rich, as children are torn between galled was very poor. I thought i was doing my best to get back to school. Which side will have the strongest appeal so what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have. Its crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race in this period. Dramatic development. The only time you sit down and talk. Welcome back. In part one, we have from iconic war correspondent martin bell about the worlds worst humanitarian crisis. But lets now look to another persistent cough, exeunt nagornokarabakh, where a russian brokered cease fire has ended a 6 week long war in a 3 decades old battlefield between azerbaijan and armenia. The great peter oborne was just returned from reporting from the center of the conflict, joins me now from wiltshire in the u. K. Peter, thanks for coming on before we get to know bono karabakh. We heard from one of the most celebrated war correspondents, martin bell, just now yemen. In part one. You were there, i understand. Do you understand why other news is pushed yemen out of the headlines . Well, its not near is it that the yen conflict, which is described by the United Nations as the worst humanitarian crisis of the 21st century has been disgracefully fully underreported. And that has been some very good reporting, but very not nearly enough of know what a mcguffey of the n. B. A. Say, by the way, thats an antacid report, but its totally overlooked. And he can see why there are there are in britain, and you sense a worry whether its because of the british interests in saudi arabia, which has prevented us from really looking at the exposing the, its difficult to get to by the way, i mean, you have to get a society possible, i, you know, youve got to be, youve got base very hard to gain. And when youre in, its not very easy to get around. And there are a putting of it. I mean, the british, the finish hasnt been reported nearly enough, is that shameful kurdish role in aiding and abetting the saudis in the bombing raids in, in yemen which are targeted 70 schools, hospitals, markets, and so forth. And of course, our role in the british role in blocking the and independent war crimes investigation. Well, obviously the prime minister, your old colleague, Boris Johnson, denies that as does the British Government. It says there have been isolated incidents. I do want to actually, before i cant to the way youve just been by john. Another story knocking yemen out, arguably, and saudi which has hosting the g 20 summit is Jeremy Corbin because he wrote that tearing the labor party apart in middle east. What have you made of the guest . Basically throwing him out of the parliamentary labor party. Havent you just got back looking from the looking as it said the outside. The problem with much of the reporting of this case is simply that hes totally one sided and the minute may very organizations and writers who write about it. So you know the facts. And i think this journalism what really speak about training troops is a very great issues. But i do think there are bigger aussie tragedy. And thats the argument that making well, corbin, of course, always an ethical Foreign Policy was central to his leadership of the labor party wiley, while he led it. Why should people be interested in armenia and azerbaijan, having a conflict and interested you so much that you went there during a covert pandemic . And of only just got back . Yes, by the way, the code was raging. You know, it was, i was free for afraid that i would get stuck. I catch it and then happy stuff that i mean people, you know, war, people forget about, you know, educated at least that becomes less important. And therefore, its important to go to the magic crowds and i was very concerned about that the, this, this war is, i think, a particularly brutal war. I mean, it was a tweet and it said really reengagement that this conflict which brings in so many global power and russia, turkey, israel, through the drones and then the kind of the west stepping back and the plight of the armenians. I mean when i was there, i went to the genocide memorial in if i say arafat and its very somber. And as far as the one of the fat says, which is you going to be very careful about talking about it. But is that the that the armenians do see themselves not only flightsim be obeyed, john, but as fighting that its, and of course, the long history of the you know, its more than 100 years since the media genocide, which of course, is not recognized by turkey at all tonight by turkey and of course not recognize, i think its very profound this not recognized by the United States or britain because quite simply because they dont want to offend that even though so much more information is coming out. And so here you have a battle going on in a nickel, no care about, except that its legal status, its very complex studies. Its mainly armenian in terms of people who live there and i to talking to them as they will be driven out of their homes. And to think out of religious places. I mean, it was like a, you were, it was like to a funeral actually. Well, i mean, turkey obviously is a nato ally. So perhaps 1 may detect some level of bias, had not read media on the side of azerbaijan. Have you detected that, and what did you actually see as regards who are committing the most crimes . I suppose, i mean there was the, it is a war i think its more that theres a limit to myself and this, and so i went that yes, its very limited understanding of what is actually going on. And its also important to say i was only on the armenian side, so i got one side of the story and, and i, but i did talk to a lot of soldiers who come back from the front. I talked to their families, talked to widows or took suit and the story was very consistent. So its a civilian army. So in a way i hadnt really appreciated that its an extraordinary year 98 place. I had an amazing, very moving profound conversation with a doctor whod worked in one of the hospital surgeon who works in the house to a year of that. And he said on the 27th of september that they fight the, the bombing started. His son was a conscripts in a circus, they called the border koroma and he just going to his car and drove to find the sun. And they go right at that. And already the shelling had started and he was there one and he spent the next. He would not be separated from me some for the next 44. 00 days until the conflict ended. I dont incredibly moving and then hes a kind of what it was like permanent shadow and then drove us drones apart all the time. He should use ready drones and he acts and the feeling i mean as faces as this is mean, you know that youre not really can see or enemy and the drones sort of holler above you and they may be punished for kind of cause he drones. It was an incredibly brave man. I mean, he said that the one he wouldnt be separated would be somebody didnt want him solely to be redeployed amun, but one occasion in the middle of the battlefield. There were 4 wounded. And you know, if you went in a back in a car in the middle of the night and obviously as lights off, picked up the full into soldiers and went back in then i think which hes a doctor. He would appreciate them and 1st and he does is say no matter of fact and actually worry to you that if he was why did was not the fact the u. K. Into the range of the as a very foresees, what worried it was that he was separated from his son and there were cases of grandfathers, fathers and sons, all fighting gather. He said its quite moved. And the grace of attrition was enormously, as they said, there was a platoon of summers in a platoon of about 22 open forward kills 2. Missing and about 11 or 12 including his son have been willing to eat so that hes in a 44 day war. Thats a very high rate of attrition. Who invite the turkish and, and israeli ambassadors on to try and refute any allegations that are going to disappear. War crimes, being conducted by my generation, gesture that the use of drone warfare against troops. This is a war crime. I made him and the next there are war crimes. There are allegations about the killing of civilians on both sides. It should be sad. I spent a long time with a remarkable man. Actually i was a human rights on but its moment in our blind man. He gave me the face said about 50 civilians to show had been killed by sharing and thats a war crime targeting of civilians. And he also said that up in sushi, the bay city which fell on the eve of the ceasefire. He said there are about 30 civilians missing that he felt they were probably dead. Many of them he said back. He thought if you have a behavior that worked there, would you have any groups operating on the villages get to those. Yanni group halla geishas, because i know britain notoriously supported the overthrow of president assad in syria. Did you see any evidence there that perhaps alqaeda linked isis linked people from the syrian conflict to a de facto mak by turkey. And of course, nato nations that they were being used as kind of mercenary troops by azerbaijan, against armenia. Well, again, i am going to repeat, i was only on the with the armenian side, i didnt, i did not get a shot, but they were clear that mercenary or jihadi groups gone from syria so that syria, bashar and were fighting. And they had really quite upset a film they show. This is not, this is i cant check natural, terribly upset, film out of jihadi operates. They actually say we should be put out except by the jihadists themselves of horrible are terrorists, mistreatment, including the headings. But between and the reports are between about 2 to 4000 of these groups were operating. Well, obviously we can vary by and he claims that he got there. I dont recall if they came from syria and of course, similar groups do seem to be deployed in libya. Of course were expecting of course. Now people are talking about a my presidency. Perhaps some talk of the people around him, the old obama, people who obviously supported those rebels against the syrian government. I really just got time to ask you about someone who didnt eliminate struggles in armenia as a page on hand all around the world. Julian, a songe. What would you say about british conduct of the case very briefly, and what have you made of these reports that coronaviruses was to lock down at the prison. He, according to the un special rapporteur on his welter, is being tortured in well, i only had the same reports you have, that there are the areas in belmarsh. I think im right in saying in isolation, the tribe it is in the aspiring to the present as we should not be surprising there. Or we had very serious testimony about race baiters health in the, in the hearing which finished in september. And i think there is a reason for grave concern about the health of jewry, an assumption. And i, i think ladies, i dont see being in belmarsh now is more than a year. I was in there are i, im what i think you should be. I think thats great. I think he should be concerned about his health and the way hes being treated because i want thank you. The show will be back on monday, 39 years to the day. U. S. President Reagan National security decision director 17, which gave the cia authority to recruit militarily, support contra death squads against nicaragua, leading to 30000 dead until then join the underground. When you troops on pattinson on facebook and twitter, a new gold rush is underway and workers are flocking to the gold fields, hoping to strike it rich. As children, a tool in between gold. My family was very poor. I thought i was doing my best to get back to school, which side will have the strongest appeal many, many times countries will need to strategically, politically get into this is whats happening in the United States right now. Clashes break out in central paris over a security bill criminalizing the filming of French Police officers say it will fuel Police Brutality and violate press freedoms. A lawsuit by u. S. Republicans. Democrats encouraged to native americans in nevada to vote in exchange for gift cards. Helping joe biden win the state and experts question whether a new u. S. With german vaccine will be viable saying it would need to store it at minus 70 degrees celsius is