International law. Very different from what youre saying. I think its very different from what a lot of people are saying, including observers on the ground and human rights groups. The same still be a accident of indiscriminate attacks, of targeting, going wrong. And i think they, they, this seems to me a forum when this can reasonably be the be raised. Maybe its a good thing that it is happening in saudi arabia because they, they need to, they need to be told and they, i, as i said that the delegates from be doing their job unless they do raise this issue for the good also. Because, well, morris johnson, when he was foreign secretary said he didnt want independent inquiries into british arms sales to saudi arabia. As regards yemenis and the saudis have a mess, insight into their own procedures and will be able to conduct the most. And vera and conclusive investigations into the kinds of allegations youre making i think dont think many people would, would, would agree with that. I think we all have to do what we can look im, im not in politics anymore, but i was for 10 years on the Ethical Oversight Committee of a vicious electronics company. And an 18 months ago, i discovered that they were intending to sell what they called stores from the systems to the saudi air force. Well, theyve been leaked to the contract and still is being released with weapons. So that point i resigned. I couldnt stay on the board of that company and work for unicef, so we will do what we can and you know, the house of commons is also going for him to raise these concerns. I havent, i havent heard any convincing defense of these arms sales from distrust from barstow incent from, from anybody, even though their robust arm sale regimen is in place in this country. He even though, has, i said isolated to hinson and i mean, did you do that after you actually visited yemen . As the unicef ambassador, you might have to remind us what you, what you saw when un yes, i actually visited. I couldnt go now. Publics, im too old and found because its, its too dangerous and its hard to, its hard to get in this with actually 10 years ago that had 6 was in 6 years. And i, so even been this is before the center is if you gratian of Central Government requiring this support by the coalition. But i saw the effects even then on these everetts, i held the hand of a 9 year old. Was suffering from p. T. S. D. , having been bombed in northern yemen. And i, and she didnt know who she was, 000 or where she was. It was, it was a most moving incident from me and it told me that that will fare happens east the states mostly among civilian civilians, are often targeted to set and they often it, and i ran, i set the difference between p. T. S. D. And a child and p. T. S. D. In an adult is just that in a child, it lasts longer. Well, britain gives aid for those children. And regardless of the fact oxfam is alleging that the g 20 sales dwarf the actual aid being given. I think the oxfam report says of the g 20 arms sales to saudia 3 times the humanitarian aid money. Surely you can criticize the British Government for its response to the yemen, humanitarian catastrophe, because it gives so much aid. Oh, absolutely, absolutely im. Im very much on the, on, on the side of the, of the people and it gives of aid. And the agencies, of course, by legislators give more aid. But let us be very careful about south of military exports. They have to be, they have, i think they should be, they should be stopped and to get international inquiry, which i think the United Nations might might well carry out. This. Im not for a moment criticising the amount of aid that we give. I am criticising our arms exports and the damage that they do the youve covered more as in your history of war reporting with the r. A. F. I mean, how, how is it possible that if they are half a training these pilots that the pilots could be accidentally, or is it deliberately killing men, women, and children in yemen . And so there is not only the saudis, of course, are they the other countries simply in the coalition. Im not going to criticise a r f, but there would appear to be something wrong with the training if or something defective about it. If they, the, if the targeting goes goes wrong. So regularly point im making these appear not to be isolated incidents, but they are parts of any action of wrong targeting. And it is couldnt talk of change. And i accept that when in modern warfare, theres no real distinction. Soldiers have submitted because the war was fought among the civilians and it spread. Now, since i was thats the port city of high data and widely across the country. But i think that we cannot we cannot carry on as we have tonight. I only wish i was still a member of parliament, but i, i know there are plenty of m. P. s waiting to raise. Thats what the world talking about them. But Jeremy Coleman was one who raised it quite a lot. Hes in the news breaks. Its in the news cove. It is in the news. Can you understand why despite unicef and n. G. O. S trying to get this further up, the Mainstream Media news agenda it is failing to make the news in this country . Yes, i do understand that. I watch news broadcasts still quite compulsively, at least one a day. And theres very little in the dating foreign news in the very little about yemen. The wars of africa, the number of countries threatened now by famine you and used to call it food insecurity. And now its now its famine. So the country can be yemen to speak in a context of international dockings. And i do understand how the, i think an agenda of the use of gender is taken into a caption if you like, by. They can run a virus, but doesnt stop these humanitarian crises. In fact, the crisis is whistling in, in yemen because if they coronavirus these things, these things interact. Yeah, the London School of hygiene and tropical medicine saying the deaths have doubled in aden because of covidien. Tell me about the scale of the famine, because i know you saw famine when you were in yemen, but the figure is now a 24000000 needing Food Assistance out of a population of what 30000000. I think thats a clip, things are getting, getting much worse. The infrastructure has, as has collapsed. You cant have a normal agriculture in the middle of a war. Millions of people threatened with death by, by starvation. I think sounds and they have died because already its very hard to get the figures because of the crisis on the ground. And even the, even the aid agencies dont have the access to the show. But satellite imagery is really worrying a freshly dug and dug graves of the, of the victims of the coronavirus. You know, everything. Sometimes i felt when i was in yemen that anything that could go wrong was, was going wrong. And to that know the plague of coronavirus and the famine, and its about as pat is it, as, as he can get. But how can we help . We help by, by foreign aid. Of course, we help by helping the aid agencies, unicef, and the others looking after the children. And we will help, i think, by stopping the supply of lethal weapons to the saudi led coalition. However much it costs them are all costs to the xoom. What is the nature of the disconnect . Some might have thought you had become in sensitized desensitized by all the wars youve covered. But it is a fact that boris johnson, as foreign secretary, signed off as the sending of munition parts to saudi and saudi arabia, days after civilian deaths were being reported of civilians. So why is it your perspective seems so different . He, you think its so important to be arm sales, as opposed to the important aid to britain is giving in the same time. I think the onset of us has sort of a half a century. Ive been caught up in being a witness told or at the fringes of all 19 moves and all respects, same as and i havent seen it. Neither has said has his chance. I think i sometimes describe myself as a battle softened veteran. Im not actually a pacifist, im some of the way there, but i have seen at 1st hand the misery and the destruction and, and the end it took long time and that will cause you and i find it just specially trust rating. No, its very difficult to get the attention of the world for anything else other than discrete pestilence, sweeping it. But the pestilences wessling the plight of the yemeni and, and we have to call a hold, we have to, and somehow we got to draw attention to this. Is it not only that they havent seen . The kind of things youve seen is, is money in the, in quaid equation because britain and the British Government apparently are fighting the judicial review after the, for the resumption of weapon sales that fuel the conflict. There is a judicial review that the campaign is a hoping for about weapons out there. Of course, money is part of the equation because you see economy as quite significantly sustained by arms exports not just of course to saudi arabia but, but, but, but all over the world and its done by its done by a special license. But again, i think the moral imperative is so great that if there is a cost to the economy, i think it has to be borne. We claim to be as a civilized people. Why are we arming it . Can i put it crudely, the gang, the conscious straight . If i mean, im still haunted by what i saw in yemen. I was only there for a few days. You know, i still children, i saw a child dying before my before my eyes for lack of medical attention. The death toll is, its unsustainable. And if theres a, if theres a hit to the economy as a result, well is a hit to the economy be claimed to be a civilized nation. Civilized nation should not be doing what were doing. And were not the only one other the doing it as well. Martin bell. Thank you. After the break, after a putin brokered cease fire, we go to the heart of the frozen conflicts that were taught. Theyre going to cairo back with Award Winning journalist peter oborne. All the same or going up about 2 of going underground. L. Look forward to talking to that technology should work for people. I robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such orders to conflict with the 1st law show your identification for should be very careful about Artificial Intelligence. And the point is to create conflict on various chozen with Artificial Intelligence where some of the must protect its own existence. Lets go. Next. New gold rush is underway. In thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields, hoping to strike it. Rich as children are torn between gold, my family was very poor. I thought i was doing my best to get back to school. Which side will have the strongest appeal during the vietnam war, us forces also bomb to neighboring laos. It was a secret war. And for years the American People did not know until our fellow, my skin is officially the mouth, heavily bombed country per capita. Human history, millions of unexploded bombs still. Indeed. It was in this Small Agricultural country. Even today, kids in laos full victim to bombs dropped decades ago. Is the us making amends for their tragedy and help to the people need in the too little land of mines. Newly elected u. S. President s invariably vell to steer the country in a fresh, bold direction. This time, those things may be a bit different, at least on Foreign Policy. Joe biden has promised to reengage with allies and restore the us his position as leader of the democratic world, the Biden Administration before on the global stage. Will we see a new approach or a return to the old ways . Welcome back. In part one, we heard from iconic war correspondent martin bell about the worlds worst humanitarian crisis. But lets now look to another persistent cough exert on nagornokarabakh, where a russian brokered cease fire has ended a 6 week long war in a 3 decades old battlefield between azerbaijan and armenia. The great peter oborne was just returned from reporting from the center of the conflict, joins me now from wiltshire in the u. K. Peter, thanks for coming on before we get to know bono karabakh. We heard from one of the most celebrated war correspondents, martin bell, just now yemen in one you were there. I understand. You understand why other news is pushed yemen out of the headlines . Well, its not near is it that the young and conflict which is described by the United Nations as the worst humanitarian crisis of the 21st century has been disgracefully fully underreported. And that has been some very good reporting, but very not nearly enough of know what a mcguffey of the n. B. A. Say about the late and some fantastic reports. But its totally overlooked. And he can see why there are embraced. And you tend to worry whether its because of the british interests in saudi arabia, which has prevented us from really looking at the explosion of its difficult to get it by the way. I mean, you have to get a society possible. I, you know, youve got to be, youve got these very hard to gain and when youre in, its not very easy to get around. And there are a putting of it. I mean, the british, the finnish hasnt been reported nearly enough. Is that shameful kurdish role in aiding and abetting the saudis in the bombing raids in, in yemen, which he said many schools, hospitals, markets and so forth. And of course, our role in the british role in blocking the and independent war crimes investigation. Well, obviously the prime minister, your old colleague, boris johnson, denies that as does the British Government. It says there have been isolated incidents. I do want to actually, before i get to the way youve just been by john. Another story knocking yemen out, arguably, and saudi which has hosting the g 20 summit is jeremy corbyn, does erode that suggest armor is tearing the labor party apart in middle east. What have you made of severe stammerer . Basically throwing out of the Parliamentary Labor Party have only just got back looking from the looking as it said the outside. The problem with much of the reporting of this case is simply that hes totally one sided and the minute may very organizations and writers who write about it. If you know the facts and i think thats journalism, not really speak about training troops. And its a very great issues, but i dont think theyre bigger or tragedy and thats the arguments are making. Well, corbin, of course, always said ethical Foreign Policy was central to his leadership of the labor party wiley, while he led it. Why should people be interested in armenia and azerbaijan, having a conflict and interested you so much that you went there during a covert pandemic . And ive only just got back . Yes, by the way, the code was raging. You know, it was. I was reef fish. Afraid that i would get stuck, i catch it and then happy stuff that i mean people, you know, war people forget about, you know, it kind of, it at least becomes less important. And therefore, its important to go to the major crowds and i was very concerned about that the, this, this war is, i think, a particularly brutal war. I mean, it was a tweet and it said really reengagement of this country, which brings in so many global powers and russia, turkey, israel for the drones, and then the kind of the west stepping back and the plight of the armenians. I mean, when i was there, i went to the genocide memorial in if i say youre a fan and its very somber. And as far as the one of the fat says, which is you going to be very careful about talking about it. But is that the that the armenians do see themselves not only fighting the, obey john, but as fighting that its, and of course, the long history of the, you know, its more than 100 years since sian median genocide, which of course, is not recognized by turkey at all tonight by turkey and of course not recognize, i think its very profound this not recognized by the United States or britain because quite simply because they dont want to offend that even though so much more information is coming out. And so here you have a battle going on in a nickel, no care about, except that its legal status, its very complex, but its, its mainly armenian in terms of people who live there and i to talking to them as they will be driven out of their hands and out of their and out of religious places. I mean, it was like a you were, it was like to a funeral actually. Well, i mean, turkey, obviously he is a nato ally. So perhaps 1 may detect some level of bias in our media on the side of azerbaijan. Have you detected that, and what did you actually see as regards who are committing the most crimes . I suppose, i mean there was the, is a war i think its more that this very limit and to myself and this, and so i went that yes, its very limited understanding of what is actually going on. And its also important to say that i was only on the armenian side. So i got one side of the story and, and i, but i did talk to a lot of soldiers who come back from the front. I talk to their families, talk to widows or talk soup. And the story was very consistent. Its a civilian army. So in a way i hadnt really appreciated that its an extraordinary year 98 place. I had an amazing, very moving profound conversation with a doctor whod worked in one of the hospital surgeon who works in a hospital. He arafat. And he said on the 27th of september that they fight the, the bombing started. His son was a conscripts in a circus. They called the border koroma. And he just going to his car and drove to find the son. And they, you know, right that already the shelling had started and he was there one and he spent the next. He would not be separated from me some for the next 44. 00 days until the conflict ended on an incredibly moving end and his account of what it was like permanent sharing and then drove us drones apart all the time. He should do is ready drives and he acts and the feeling i mean as faces as this is mean, you know that youre not really can see or enemy and the drones sort of hover above you and they may be punished for kind of cause he drones it was an incredibly brave matter. I mean he said that the one he wouldnt be separated would be somebody, he didnt want him solely to be redeployed amun, but one occasion in the middle of the battlefield. There were 4 wounded. And you know, if you went in a back in a car in the middle of the night and obviously at lax of picked up the full into soldiers and went back in then i think well see the doctor. He would appreciate them and fish. And he does it say no matter of fact, and it actually worried you that if he was, why did was not the fact the u. K. Into the range of the air as ariel sees what worried it was that he was separated from his son. And there were cases of grandfathers, fathers and sons, all fighting or gather, he said its quite moved. And the grace of attrition was enormously, as they said, there was a platoon of some in a platoon of about 22 of whom forward kills 2. Missing. And about 11 or 12 including his son have been willing to eat so that hes in a 44 day war. Thats a very high rate of attrition. Who invite the turkish and, and israeli ambassadors on to try and refute any allegations that are going to disappear. War crimes being conducted by the, by john mason gesture that the use of drone warfare against troops. This is a war crime. I made him and the next go to war crimes. There are allegations about the killing of civilians on both sides. It should be sad. I spent a long time with a remarkable man, actually i was a human rights on but its been in our blind man. He gave me the face said about 50 civilians to show had been killed by sharing and thats a war crime targeting of of civilians. And he also said that up in sushi, the base city which fell on the eve of the ceasefire. He said that about 30 civilians missing that he thought they were probably dead. Many of them he said back. He thought if you have a behavior that worked there, would you have any groups operating on the villages get to those. Yanni, Group Allegations because i know britain, a tory, a sleaze, avoided the overthrow of president assad in syria. Did you see any evidence that that perhaps alqaeda linked isis linked people from the syrian conflict to a de facto mac, my turkey, and of course, nato nations that they were being used as kind of mercenary troops by azerbaijan, against armenia. Well, again, i going to repeat, i was only on the with the armenian side, i did, i did not go by shuttle, they were clear that nursery or jihadi groups gone from syria, turkey syria, bashar, and were fighting. And they had really quite abscessing film. They show this now, this is, i cant check natural, terribly upsetting, film out of jihadi operates. They actually say we should be put out. They said by the jihadists themselves of horrible authoress mistreatment including beheadings. But i dont between and the reports are between about 2 to 4000 of these groups were operating while i was here, we come very vague and he claims that you cant there. I know through holes they came from syria and of course, similar groups do seem to be deployed in libya. Of course were expecting, of course, now people adore him out of my presidency. Perhaps some talk of the people around him, the old obama, people who obviously supported those rebels against the syrian government. Im really just going time to ask you about someone who didnt eliminate the struggles in armenia as a page on hand all around the world. Julian, a songe. What would you say about british conduct of the case very briefly, and what have you made of these reports that coronaviruses was to lock down at the prison. He, according to the un, special rapporteur on his welter, is being tortured and well, i only have the same reports you have, that there are areas in belmarsh. I think im right in saying in isolation. David is certainly starting to present as we should not be surprising. All right, we had very serious testimony about race baiters health in the, in the hearing which finished in september. And i think there is a reason for grave concern about the health of the innocent and i, i think that hes had only been in belmarsh no more than a year. I was in there are i, i know i think he should be. I think thats great. I think he should be concerned about his health and the way hes being treated here. I want thank you. Thats a show will be back on monday, 39 years to the day u. S. President Ronald Reagan signed National Security decision directive 17, which gave the cia authority to recruit militarily, support contra death squads against nicaragua, leading 230000 dead until then give it a try, social media and join the underground on you tube soundgarden. If you have facebook and twitter, guys are part many, many times because game theory or jump to the star wars countries will need to strategically geo politically get into big oil. And this is whats happening in the United States right now. During the vietnam war, u. S. Forces also bomb to neighboring laos. It was a secret war. And for years the American People did not know until our fellow, my skin is officially the mouth of rebound country per capita. All human history, millions of unexploded bombs still in danger, lives in this Small Agricultural country. Jordyn we have been going to continue to happen. Even today, kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for the tragedy in laos. What helped to the people need in that little land of mines . A new gold rush is underway in ghana. Thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields, hoping to strike it. Rich is a good. As children are torn between gold, my family was very poor. I thought i was doing my best to get back to school, which side will have the strongest appeal. Join me every thursday on the alex, im, im sure. And ill be speaking to guest of the world of politics. Im sure. Ill see you. Then clashes break out in central paris over a security bill criminalizing the filming of French Police offices. Opponents say it will fuel and these were targets and im fine, they press freedom. We know that there are attempts to cast the karabakh agreements. We will strongly resist such attempts and concentrate on fulfilling the agreements russians foreign minister visits armenia and azerbaijan and the 2 countries need to us in a bid to promote peace stuff