Transcripts For RT Going Underground 20240711

Sanctions on venezuela were set to expire as president obama during a opens up the possibility of dialogue with a country arguably bent on its destruction. The United States coming on the show as britains 2nd chamber rejects Boris Johnsons attempts to violate International Law and break the buy back. Good friday agreement with ireland for britain said one of president obamas top advisers tells us whether the socalled special relationship is dead in the water. And could this be the man soon running, joe bidens intelligence establishment need to beat the russians . Right. The other thing, i mean, you make them pay the price by killing killing russians, and yes, theres rumors abound that biden may pick hawks like mike morrell for the cia. We ask Rolling Stones about the potential for world war 3, whatever ends up becoming u. S. President in january, all this and more coming up in todays going underground 1st. This week, britains 2nd chamber voted down Boris Johnsons attempt to break International Law in the name of brecks that some say, johnsons actions of set him on a collision course with socalled us president elect joe biden. Beyond that, after a president who didnt start any new wars will buy, do follow in obamas footsteps in libya, and launch new conflicts in the global south. Joining me now is one of president obamas top advisers who served on the Clinton Obama Administrations National Security Council director for European Affairs and author of the new book isolationism, a history of americas efforts to shield itself from the world. Professor charles koch joins me now via skype from chevy chase in maryland. Thanks so much charles for coming on before i get to the book. If i may, what do you make of the fears here in britain about joe biden presidency after . , he tweeted that u. K. , violation of the good friday agreement will impact on any trade deal you know, on balance. I think british folks should breathe a sigh of relief with bidens election in the sense that we will have again in the white house, someone who values partnerships abroad, who believes in the transatlantic relationship, who believes in a strong europe has a good partner. Does biden support brecks it know when he was Vice President . Did his boss, barack obama, go to the u. K. And argue against brecks it . Yes, and so there will be some tough conversations between Boris Johnson and joe biden about this issue. But i think, you know, listen, biden is a pragmatist. He will want to maintain a good strong relationship with the u. K. Im guessing his message will be twofold. One, try to keep as close a relationship to the e. U. As possible and to dont do anything that could upset the good friday agreement or somehow undo the peace that has taken hold in northern ireland. Bill johnson has been relatively clear. I know this new book isolationism goes right back into the usa. And, arguably, when the usa was a colony, you can imagine there might be people here in westminster think and resent the idea of telling britain what to do. Well, listen times the times have changed. And i do think that going back in history, one can only believe that the special relationship were in will endure because it really does go back to the 19th century in the u. S. And the u. K. Have been each others best partners for well over a century. I do think that if this special relationship will need some refurbishing, it will need investment because britain has segregated itself, its backing away from europe and europe aggregates. Britains power, that doesnt mean that i say that britain is going to drift off into the shadows. But i think it does mean that the government should come up with a program about projecting power about taking on new commitments about being a player in europe to make sure that it remains as as relevant and partner to the United States Going Forward as it has been in the past, well, as you make clear in the book, fronts a 0 oldest ally, and of course those are both brechts that they say this is segregation. This is making it an International Power when it comes to america 1st, i dont know how youve coped them with the way the Trump Presidency has been chronicled by socalled, Mainstream Media. You make it clear that this is much older than many of these journalists actually understand america. Yeah, i mean, i am not a big fan of donald trump. I think his presidency has been very difficult for those of us who live here very difficult for the rest of the world. Hes in some ways taken a wrecking ball to the world america made in cooperation with its allies after world war 2. But i do think its a mistake to see trump is some kind of bolt from the blue as someone who broke in a fundamental way with american traditions. Because as i discussed in the book, trumps isolationism is unilateralism, is protectionism. His racism, all of those acts of buttes have very strong roots in american history, going back to the founders, going back to the late 17 hundreds. And in some ways, i think trump has demonstrated himself to be a very acute politician because hes been able to tap in to that different narrative that different version of american except exceptionalism, america. And is the city on the hill that stands aloof from the world . Not a country that goes out to change the world. And so right now, i think, as biden prepares to take office, we do see the country going through a searching debate about the nature of its role moving forward. And my own view is its time for the country to find the middle ground between where it was in the pre pearl harbor era, which was doing too little and running away from the world where it has been more recently, which is drawing, trying to do too much particularly in the middle east, to find that stable middle ground to step back, but not to step away. Drove over as he did is, hes a racist, and things may be bad for you in the u. S. And the trump as far as you see it, but surely the rest of the world, a large portions of it have breathed a sigh of relief because trump was having to draw down on troops, he wasnt going to, well miss syria, maybe the way Hillary Clinton would have done in 2016 if she had won. Well, you know, i think that there is agreement here in the United States and in many other parts of the world that the United States did overstep in the middle east. And that the wars in afghanistan, you know, iraq in syria and libya have not gone well. There are a few things. Democrats and republicans agree on today. I think one of them is its time to reduce the u. S. Footprint in the middle east. And so i think that the trend that trump started, which is to, to get out of syria, pull back from afghanistan and pull back from iraq. That will continue where i think youll see a dramatic change is on the diplomatic front. Because the isolationist sentiment that trump demonstrated was coupled with a fierce unilateralism pulling out of pacts, dissing allies. And i think biden will do the opposite. Youll rejoin paris hill, rejoin the World Health Organization to try to renegotiate the iran nuclear deal. Hell breathe new life into nato, so the u. S. Will lead and diplomatically, even as it leans back militarily. And for me, thats exactly the right form. Or is that actually a cover of a covert activity . Because obviously, there obama, there was, well, actually there was over activity when africas resist because of the country was destroyed all but destroyed by obama. And we know the blood in the said he supports one in venezuela, location of the worlds greatest fossil fuel resources. We know, he said he has to pay this, this. He was much tougher than anything trying to say, you know, i think that trumps relationship with russia has been very strange, very difficult to unpack. He has shown some affinity for a lot of mir putin, even in a time when putin has been interfering in, in american elections. And so i think what youll see is a tougher line from mr. Biden, but also a pragmatism, willing to engage a policy. There hasnt really been policy toward anything here in the United States. Theres been a lot of tweeting and i dont think there has been a sustained approach to russia to china or to the other major issues. And you know, going back to being a multilateral player, doesnt in my mind, mean anything covertly. I think it means that the United States will reclaim its, its reputation mantle of being a coalition builder. And it will do so quite openly. And you know, even though there are some countries out there, russia among them that may have supported trumps reelection. I think that in many respects the chaos that trump has created, the sense that the world is on edge doesnt do anybody any good. And that i think the russians and others that supported trump will find the world a more predictable and a more Peaceful Place when there is someone in the white house that people trust. Obviously putin rather than i any interference with foreign elections. So youre saying it will be tougher than him to trump, who was expelled, more Russian Diplomats and the other president in history, who put more troops on russias borders than any in recent times who has built exaggerated the forces and also put more forces in the South China Sea against china is going to be more than trumpeted against china or russia. Yeah, i think on russia there will be what i would call a very frank conversation. And again, i think, i think mr biden is, is a pragmatist and he will be open to a better relationship with russia, but it will take, give from the russians. I think, particularly on ukraine, where mr. Biden is committed to seeing the conflict and on boss and, and that will take concessions by both ukrainians, but russians as well and the kremlin needs to be prepared to do some hard work on that front. I think also on this question of interference in western elections, theyll be tough conversations between mr biden and mr. Putin, it never happened under mr. Trump and china is, well, i think theyll be, and i dialogue that has essentially collapsed during the trump era. Do the underlying issues suddenly disappear. Now there are conflicts of interest over trade over security in the western pacific over human rights. Those arent going to go away. But i do think that there will be an effort to address these issues in a frank way between washington and beijing that really wasnt in place during the Trump Presidency. Joo new book writes about north isolationism, as it were, by the United States, in so many countries that i couldnt even name them all from albania, guatemala, costa rica, syria, egypt, ecuador, have you dont think the term presidency has led many in the global south let alone in moscow and beijing to think what gives the right of the United States to mess around in any, any world issues. Thats all it is a country live is led wars that have killed wounded or displaced tens of millions of people just in the past decade. It has no right to do anything anymore. Well, you know, one of the things i want to expose in the book is that thats relatively new. And that from 1718 9 until the end of the 19th century, the United States was quite expansionist in north america. Right. It pushed right across to the pacific coast, took land from mexico, trampled on native americans, but then it stopped and it went no further. And it really did follow the guidance of the founders, which was we should have commercial connections with everybody. But political and geo political connections with no one that starts to change with the spanishamerican war. And the United States becomes part, particularly interventionist in the western hemisphere. And that really does begin the era that continues after 941. 00 of our robust american engagement has the United States made mistakes in its Foreign Policy. Yes. Was the decision to invade iraq under george w. Bush, a mistake that we will be paying for for quite some time . Yes, and i think americans have realized that those mistakes have been made. And thats one of the reasons that were seeing the pendulum swing back toward a more selective brand. I think casement on the military front, and thats why i think youll see the retrenchment that began under trump continue under mr. Biden, particularly when it comes to commitments in the middle east. Well have to talk about that Defense Budget next time reza telescope. Thank you very much. My pleasure. After the break, how the Progressive Left in the usa, self delusional about pushing biden to the left. When it comes to war in the quality of capitalism, we talked a great drange lindorff, a Rolling Stones about all this of all coming up about 2 of going on the ground thinks we welcome back. Well, we had a glimpse of what is in store for the United States in the world when or if biden assumes the presidency in january. But what does it mean for progressives fearing a return to obama era corporate bailouts and drone warfare . Joining me now from new jerseys Rolling Stones matt taibbi. Matt, thanks so much for coming back on. So im going to us from the top. If the, if biden has won, why is socalled, Mainstream Media and new liberal society in the United States . So angry about litigation just running itself out and getting the most accurate result for their candidate for a long time. Story line that donald trump would not may not willingly leave power has been such an appealing storyline for a lot of people in the news media. You know, his refusal to concede in to go through this legal process, which i think is just going to play itself out and use going to end up leaving. And its not going to result in anything. But you know, its like a lot of bombshell news stories in the last 4 years that they want to milk every bit of sensationalism out of it. The idea that he might not leave as you know, thrilling to horrifying to consider. It wasnt a hollywood men time. You know, we see 40000000, people in the United States will no me able to eat tonight without your snap food stamp program. Does that not concern these people of the country up this through a political thriller on january the 20th. Again, the what leads the news is dictated by, you know, a handful of people in new york, washington and l. A. , who run the biggest news organizations as we saw once again with these results. You know, the press and the Political Class have a bit of a disconnect in terms of understanding where most people are in this country. Yet its not surprising. And when it comes to the existential threat, say, of climate change, all these people celebrating a victory. What do they think is going to happen if hes any fracking under a biden presidency . Well, the, the assumption that you get from democrats, when you ask about that issue is, well, no matter what, hell be better than trump, right . Which is, which is kind of the blanket response to almost any policy issue when you get get right down to it. But, you know, there isnt a whole lot of evidence in the background of this, this type of democrat thats, you know, thats octets, occupy the head of the party since the clinton years, that theyre really very strong on it are myron mental issues and theyre always going to listen to their donors, head of, you know, other people on issues like that. And it just hopelessly naive for any one watching from the Global South Center view. That if biden was an african leader, he might be the i. C. C. For colluding in wars that have killed wounded or displaced tens of millions. And thats, thats, that could be the president of United States in january. I think any american president could be, could be brought up on over issues like that. I think its only the preeminence the United States is a military power around the world that prevents that kind of thing from happening. Bidens role in a lot of those wars that we have had over the last couple of decades. Again to most americans. Its an consequential because the larger, the larger issue is, trump ok. More specifically, the drone strikes that obama biden pioneered and the reports of 90 percent civilian kill rate, but we see a return to the kind of mass drone strikes. I know the trump also is a fan of drone strikes space, specifically in yemen, when obama was supporting the saudi bombardment of in the wild, west humanitarian crisis. Yes, i wrote a couple of features about drones and i didnt really start doing that until the trump years because i was covering finance before that. But the drone strikes did go up under trump if the people who are rumored to be going back into the National Security establishment end up taking those places. I think we can assume that theres going to be some continuity with the obama era policies, which is where the drone program, the, you know, the Lethal Action programs as i like to call them. I think theyre probably going to continue. We just want hear about them very much because the present not likely to pay a lot of attention. Chum clearly thinks hes won. Hes reshuffling things at the pentagon with one adviser who once said troops out from afghanistan from syria. One say maybe cooperation now be sainted lee with iran into being room. And do you think say fred, julien the son shares in prison just a few miles from this studio . His best shot is trump to release him before january, because biden called him a high tech terrorist. Yes, i dont know again why trump wouldnt have done that before the election is kind of a mystery to me. Trump, unlike his predecessor barack obama, who used the espionage act to go after i think it was 10 different leakers during his presidency. He really are only on holstered with, with julian and songe. And though he publicly flirted with the idea of pardoning and me, he never did it. I doubt the songes going to get a better deal under biden. Although it has to be said that the Obama Administration hesitated to prosecute a songe formally when, when obama was in office. And it was only only trumpet, took that step manning was being tortured under obama. Right. Of course. Yes. What is this Progressive Left that is pushing biden, that we suddenly on right wing talking points. Michael moore, the great filmmaker has been tweeting about, kemal harris. Can we assume that Vice President , a Vice President harris will not now be advocating the locking up of innocent people for prison labor like he did in california . Well, if you remember who the president is, i mean, joe biden was one of the primary authors of the 1904 crime bill, which was a you know, a kind of signature moment in the history of mass incarceration in this country. He certainly didnt have the reputation of being any kind of advocate for criminal justice reform. Heading into this election cycle, the political winds of change somewhat, and both harris and biden have adopted the pose of people who are, are going to be on the side of criminal justice reform. But i, again, i think looking back at their history, it would be unwise to expect that to happen. Well, thatll depress a lot of progressives here in the pit of america. What do you take thing from faith . People like kaohsiung sond as shots across the bow. As warning shots, biden harris first, there was just a mordant in defense of new jersey. I dont think were the armpit of america. I love this place, but. But, you know, look the major, some plot of what happened in the last election cycle was you know, the kind of dismantling and neutering of the sanders opposition. They were in position to win the nomination. Sanders was the leading fundraiser, which was a tremendous Political Development because it was a proof of a concept that nobody thought was possible competing without corporate money. And yet sanders in the end was beaten rather badly, and he performed worse than he did. And you 1016, which is taken a lot of the sails out of that movement. So, you know, i dont, i dont, we dont see a whole lot of evidence of that Coalition Putting pressure on biden, yet, they might but, but so far, were not seeing a whole lot of that. I should just, i meant competent. Pejoratively, i was thinking of industrialized labor, the passage until the strike year i had to breathe, and of course, black eyes. Matta began with the atrocities against people of color, and by can today use the movement to get power. Will we see the funding of the police . I dont know. I dont think that joe biden is particularly offended. Defunding the police. I actually dont think most americans, frankly, are fans of defunding the police. I think, i think almost everybody agrees that there has to be significant reform of police. Are we going to see a whole lot of that . Its hard to say, but a lot of those issues are at the state level and not federal. So itll be difficult to enact it, you know, from, from the white house to the no, going to constitutionally change that you mentioned. I mean, i suppose when i only know about it from, from the journalists that are good enough to cover it. And im going to be the journalists have been good at covering the human rights abuses by the trumpet, ministration, when it came to immigration and so forth. How can we be that these elite china lissa going to be covering lation is of the un charter that are enacted by biden harris . I mean, i think its certainly that my primary worry about what, what took place in the last 4 years. And what we have to think about Going Forward is that the press has changed radically in the United States during the trump era. Weve seen a shift towards most Corporate News organizations essentially being proxies for the Democratic Party. And they justified on the grounds of we have to opposed all trump, but now the democrats are going to be assuming the white house. How do you go back to being oppressed . The challenge is people in power. I think its very, very difficult to take that step once youve taken, you know, the step backwards. Its a be in to a more politicized media. Netanyahu trumps a best friend has a congratulated his other best friend, arguably, joe biden, on winning the election. What is going to be u. S. Policy viz of me, israel and how will that impact on any possible biden policies on iran, on afghanistan, on syria . Crucially, again, i just dont think that theres going to be a significant change or deviation from the kind of standard neoliberal policy of democracy promotion, foreign based, Foreign Policy. So itll be different in terms because obviously this company wiser is saying we should get out of syria. Well, the syria hawks are probably going to be much more empowered under a biden administration. I think the relationship with israel is going to remain preeminent there, although there is a movement, a Progressive Movement to you know, stand behind the palestinians. Somewhat in the democratic side. Its not enough to, i dont think to tilt the policy, the Democratic Party, not yet. So i just wouldnt expect a major change there. I do think that syria, theres going to be a more aggressive posture toward syria than there was under trial. And trump, of course, we expelled Russian Diplomats. He destroyed the Stock Nuclear proliferation nonproliferation treaties. He put troops on russias, boy, it is, and biden still said putin has to pay. So another existential question, arguably. What do you think biden meant by putin has to pay . Whats he going to do . I would expect the Democratic Party once they occupy the white house, undertake a series of measures that will be largely performative in terms of, you know, looking like theyre standing up to russia. Whether thats, you know, in ukraine, whether its expelling more diplomats in retaliation for you know, what theyre going to call election interference. But i fundamentally, the people who are coming back into power are the same people who, you know, over the course of 20 years, or 20 or 30 years, including appear when i was living in russia. You know, sought to have some kind of a relationship with, with rt, with russia often to combat terrorism. So i wouldnt, i dont think its to be excluded. That there will be a softening in relations. I think a lot of the tension with russia was largely based on the it was political as open as a means of getting at all of trump and now that hes out of power, you know, maybe things will improve on that score. That score. Thank you. Thanks very much, thats on the show will be back on monday. 18 is a day since the 1st case of saws was a quote in the Guangdong Province in china, known as the 1st corona virus pandemic of the 21st century. And has taken in the 2 decades to reach the same number of deaths worldwide as co in 1000 as invest in the bill. Then join the on the ground by following us on you tube twitter, facebook, instagram. And this is a story of women, women with troubled histories and complex court cases. You know, some believe that the person that the cheesiness of the day are considered the most dangerous of criminals. Shes in a still falling off 23 hours of the day. Tell me that its an issue that world of women on death row headlines and russian peacekeepers have set up observation posts nagornokarabakh just days after it was signed between and theres a big shop deception that has branded the u. S. Election. Adding that the president s team is still working under the assumption of a 2nd term. If we look back at previous allegations of fraud in american pilots. Meanwhile, a biden does get to the white house what his Foreign Policy looks like. We get the thoughts of a former special adviser to barack obama. Right now. I think it is biden prepares to take office. We do see the country going through a searching to paint