American, in the european, in their russian, in the chinese, in these really Vaccine Development and research to be successful. Because the more scenes we will have is the better, you know, shooting with everybody, including russia, of course. So its any time political aspects should be left behind and this is the fight. We understand. It is realistic that indeed some are a small scale all of the various be launched in order to make the National National necessary Clinical Trials on their suspect in hungary. And as all for the 2nd part of january, it might be realistic that food by quality from russia. But we are not going to negotiate and go about simply buying vaccine for russia. We are not all shooting localise ation, what the production or at least the part of the production to hungary. There is a Company Operating here in a hungry, which has been producing for other or viruses and diseases. Of course, they seem to be able to transform their capacity in a way that they would be able to be involved in the production cycle. But then use our squeeze it all and now join me for a dyson alpha. Now god you are these 10 for one. Also, i think you are talking about her because youre really into you leave that up. I just sat there watching 5 minutes. Youre not going home. I can guarantee they wont come back to wrongful conviction. When jason, today were going to be doing a deep dive into an issue as fascinating exhibits to our finding, which is the phenomenon of false confessions. And my guest today is going to be jane fisher. Are you also currently working on more cases involving false confessions and each is fascinating its own way. So jane, while some confession happened to me, and jane is an attorney who is an expert on false confessions. And so jane, how did you get into this work . I was a public defender in manhattan here in new york city for about 3 years. And we saw a lot of police misconduct, you know, we were doing arraignments up until 1 am in the morning and you see people beat up or, you know, people whose cases get dismissed, who get no compensation. So my husband and i left the Legal Aid Society with the hopes of doing civil rights work. My name is old castle. Im a distinguished professor of psychology at John Jay College of criminal justice. Once a false confession is taken, the case was closed and nobody really can tell the difference between a good confession and one that is a problem with all of this is that your tactics that can be used to get innocent people and i dont just mean vulnerable innocent people, i mean people who are sitting around in this room to confess to crimes. They didnt commit. Anytime you do an exoneration case where theres been a false confession, its like trying to write a trice. Everybodys already against you. The persons been convicted by a jury. The judge thinks hes guilty. The jury thinks hes guilty. Now you have to convince everybody that theyre wrong. So a case that youre deeply rested and is a case of an alien ship who has been in prison for 20 years. Renee lynch was a case we took about 2 and a half now maybe 3 years ago now. And she was accused and convicted of killing her landlord in buffalo, new york in 1995. And its also obvious if confession cases, the police are going crazy and they cant solve it 18 months go by. And bernies connection to the victim was that it was her landlord. And so they are start looking into renee, who at the time was heavily addicted to drugs crack cocaine. And because she gets arrested for Something Else and they start interrogating her. And she confesses to killing her landlord with this guy karim. So she says, kareem, and i went to my landlords house, we were going to rob her. The robbery goes bad, and karim stabs her. So if shes a good century, it can make it a felony, murder being present during the commission of crime, somebody gets killed. We started sort of doing, you know, just regular google searches on the players names and detectives and everything in this t. V. Show. Women behind bars comes up and theyve done an episode on days case where they got in the, in the prison and interviewed her. And then interviewed this joseph was the cop on the case, the way her body when she decided to go, you just saw. Were starting to told the truth. I believe her confession is kind of nonsense. Theres inconsistency between the physical evidence and what she says. And during the show, he says, well, i mean we knew that Corinne Walker was in florida at the time of our crime and toward karim was of the crime. I guess they knew Kareem Walker was in florida at the time the crime then renes confession cant possibly be true because shes confessing to going to rob the landlord with kareem and the defense been able to put that on her confession would have made no sense that the defense was never told the whole thing is so full of holes and so bogus. I cant put my finger out and say like, you know, this is the thing. But i think if we dug in it, we could find that thing that could get her out because its all its just all of it. So its messed up. How do they record this confession . And didnt know, i mean, did they make, you know, they typed it up and then read it to her and made her so. And so there is a type of confession is the only version of the confession. Theres no like original notes. They have or something that we have to wonder about. She says, details about the crime scene because they showed her photos of it. How does she know how the body was lying . There shown her those photos of some kind of new evidence didnt exist at the time of the trial or didnt, didnt exist at the time a tro, but it wasnt known right. And it wasnt presented during the trial. And then we have to show that it could have been could have been a different outcome which i think we can, but its going to be hard. Our goal is of course to get renee out of prison. But it can take a really long time. Sometimes many years and one of the 1st things we do in cases like this is to comb through the confession and find all that in consistencies. To clearly show that the confessions theres a cream walker drove me to the plan was i was going to go into the front door and cream was going to come up the back door. He was going to tie her up with a piece of white extension cord that he brought with him at babson time, kareem hit louise in the side of the face, and louise fell to the floor and kind of went out. If that happened, he would be standing punching her here, right. On cream head here in the face, he knocked the wig away, landed on the floor in the kitchen kitchen. He tried to tie louise up with the plastic or he had. Then carry comes from behind. Louise, he stabbed her at least twice. However, we know its 8 times louise fell to the floor again. It was a large amount of blood on the floor next to her body. So the only thing she gets right is that the witness knocked off. That theres a plastic cord involved in this case. Thats correct. And the phone cord is where the extra d. N. A. Is. I miss phyllis, jeanne fisher, barry elson, rene lynchs attorney. I have a call with her this morning. Oh, good things. Oh i 000000000 i quite i i i i oh oh, i know its hard. She testified been very incoherent lee, she was high during the trial. Was she was not a good witness for her. So she recanted right away afterwards and her confession is that is it was a coerced when i would never say contests when people say ive been talking about this for 30 years, and thats the 1st thing. Everybody says, but it wouldnt happen today. Its not one time the person that gives a false confession. We are all under the circumstance of interrogation. We are all trained detectives. Ive spoken to who say i can get anybody to press today. And many of them will boast that they have a 95 percent confession rate and see a lesser of a less perfect identifying the perpetrator. That is, every suspect you identify is the perpetrator, right . If youve got a confession, youre producing a whole lot of false confessions. When i talk to her about it, she explains. I was so shocked that they convicted me. She said because there was no evidence of a confession so powerful it can stand alone. So heres the jury. On the one hand, theyve got the confessions of the one, theyll go to confession strip, the d. N. A. Changes everything. And sometimes ive likened the final product of a confession to a hollywood production is scripted by the Police Theory of the case is rehearsed and action camera ready to go. And thats what the jury sees. They dont see the whole production, they just see the final. I dont see how the judge or jury can look past the false confession. Is that also the presence and we have a number of documented cases in which the person who falsely confessed actually came to believe the lie that they were told about their own behavior. Which is a whole nother level of insanity and some of them believe it for a long time afterwards. You can see here in the melted thompson case we had he was a danish inturn who came he was a danish, he was a College Student studying to become, a teacher and he came and interned at i. P. S. , which is really, you know, like a 20 1000. 00, a year preschool, up by the u. N. , and it was a code teacher who accuses me of molesting all the kids in the class. And hes on the cover of the daily news. They take his focus, his facebook profile pictures, him with his niece on his shoulders. So they put that on the cover of the daily news and write sex monster. And they go arrest him in the morning and bring him into the station and they have a female cop interrogate him. She tells him, while, you know, we have video of you molesting these kids, which they had videos, but hes not molesting anybody. So they had this woman who accused him, had taken videos of him in the classroom, interacting normally with children. And so either the cops had watched it or they had watched it and were blatantly lying to him, but there was no video of him molesting kids, but he hears that right. And he thinks holy, well, if im on video, i must have done it right. They let him continue to believe this lie that hes caught red handed on tape molesting these kids. And i think that, that, you know, he started, you could tell through the hole when they finally are recording him. Hes doubting himself. You know, hes, hes wondering, did i do this . This is a story of women and women with troubled histories and complex court cases. You know, some out there where nat is the person that if shes innocent, they are considered the most dangerous of criminals. Shes in a still probably off 23 hours of the day. Tell me that is not enough punishment. World of women on death row, teamed. Mr. Thompson. Can you tell me why im here because in order for inappropriate behavior, it was ok. So why dont you tell me the ending, how this started, what happened . You know, what you know . Well, you know what i can remember just had to go down just a few moments about it. And then i had taken its place and playing around to the story of my shorts and you know, short of Going Forward in that or question what you would call it. And so what, when you say gave him pleasure at one time without a central mind, her resume of it would have to be i dont know, you know, a member of it and its like, is this not just you read out the statement . I did. Thats your handwriting, and if i am just waiting over briefly because it looks like its been changed in any way. And thats your signature. Because youre at this hour earlier today, youre going to show the camera. I dont even think people in the u. S. Really get that the police are allowed to lie to you. I think most people would think that if i am speaking to a police officer, hes telling me the truth. But now times i mean in denmark, its illegal for the police to lie to you. So he really, i think, was, was, you know, really says extra susceptible to Something Like that. It took us filing the civil rights suit to even get access to these tapes. The District Attorney wouldnt give it to us when the criminal case was pending. We asked the court, we moved for a court order to get it. The judge just wouldnt give it to us. But they sat on these tapes for 8 months. He had this case hanging over his head and they knew that there was nothing in the tapes. Right. There was the only evidence there was yes, luckily mel to never got convicted right. We were able to stop it before that happened. But it took, i mean, it almost killed him Sexual Abuse Involving very Young Children were brought to the attention of the District Attorneys office to thoroughly investigate and involved in the children, particularly in this instance for peaceful nations. And one of the things in just this case, after carol and gather in our tents, we have to have you know, have you ever seen anybody use like a piece of a phone cord to prop up to put it on just the way forward to i dont know if i have a case where there is a piece of foam cord found inside of why would you have to use it later on your head to give the league a little for a little weeks if theyre flat. Because if there is some koofi in the hair, like its just like a 3 to 4 inches of phone cord attached were trying to get permission to test all the old evidence for d. N. A. But to do that, we have to collect as much information about her innocence as we possibly can. And go back and interview all the witnesses documents, go back to the crime scene. I keep coming back to this thing that the cops knew. He was in florida and kept going with the story that they did together. Like if they know hes in florida, why dont they like your life . Youre lying to us because hes in, we know hes in florida. Why dont they are confronted by hearsay . That how can they be permitted to go forward with a serious of a case that they know is not true. Name made the trial basically match or as you say, thats why the trickery. And the only way to convict somebody of this was to do it that way. Yes, it just makes me so jaded and really disgusted with the District Attorneys offices. And i feel like, you know, the, you know, theyre supposed to be at the top of the chain right there is supposed to be the ones making sure the cops made mistakes or people below the cops made mistakes. Then theyre the ones who are responsible for fixing it. Why not do d. N. A. Testing . Think why not me . Were all, were not infallible. We can all make mistakes. Why not check . I mean, her name is going to be in prison for the rest of her life. Why not just check . You know, they can never answer that question. So you just end up in court with, you know, them opposing your motions for d. N. A. , testing and unending ability gaining instead of working together. In renes cases, especially frustrating because, i mean, they certainly believe that this was done. Not the stabbing was not done by her. So there is a set the, i mean, theyre basically admitting that they have a cold case and theres a murder out there. And they still dont want to do it. You know, its did 2 people either 2 people or somebody other than renee, committed that crime. And that person is out and about, and d. N. A. Contesting could show who they are, but theyre still posing as am you know, the central park jogger case was my 1st interaction with false confessions our firm represented corey wise on his civil rights case way to start i mean, youre diving right into the bed there. You know, the circumstances that play in that case were huge amount of pressure on the police and the authorities to make arrests and make them step forward. Having years in prison with one of the most notorious crimes in the history of new york city, it was a crime in which a woman who was a wealthy Upper East Side investment banker was out jogging at dusk and was dragged into the woods in central park and almost beaten to death and there was front page news every day, everywhere. And they are out to get arrests. And they got him. When you get to the false confessions, in that case, it was a classic, you know, mismatch. They were totally overmatched, underrepresented if represented at all. I dont know what you could do, corey, even have anyone in the room without his consent is 16. So he was considered an adult, sadly. And so his mom was not allowed in there. And they, you know, had given them lawyers, they all waived their, their miranda rights rights. Chris says that it is very, very serious in this neighborhood. We dont know if this is their way to use an example. We do say and exactly what youre seeing. Those pictures, im sure if you can see where it is, why it is a way it is hard for people to understand how this can help produce a confession, something they didnt too. And there really is a complicated set of stories is there is no one reason you know why hes confessed to get out of this bad situation. He was under pressure from many, many hours. He was likely be told that others were giving stories and that to, to cooperate in order to go home. And it is very telling in the central park 5 case that every one of them, every one of the boys and every one of the parents who were present were surprised. The boys were arrested after their statements. Every one of them i was going home, right . Well, you know what, that sounds crazy right here. Thought you were gone or confess to a rape and go home. Right. But you know that one false confessors were interviewed afterward and theyve been exonerated. And the 1st question, everybody wants those, i dont understand why dont you confront the most typical response . Because i want to go back in this and people often say afterwards, you know, i was so was so stressed, i figured lets sign this confession, do all work itself out in the end to soften say, you know, we have d. N. A. , were going to some of these things that claiming they have d. N. A. Is a way to scare the criminal into submission. It may be right, but if the person youre talking to is not the criminal but an innocent person, then the law becomes a promise of future exoneration. Makes it easier to contrast. Really say were going to do some tests. Were going to take blood samples from a lot of the i just want to know that if we do that, we will probably get an order to take a sample from you. And then well compare it to tests because youre in this issue now where if you know that theres going to be a match date, you better off. Tell us about it now or the stairs instead of saying something thats natural or this is the state. One of the things i think they made you say was that you cut her on the legs. How did you come up with that . I dont know. Came from no, i dont know. I dont know. I dont know. Welcome to maximize or financial survival. Yanks, this is what happens to pensions in britain as a report. Nothing to see here. Prodemocrat media try to want to raise doubts about the integrity of the 20 twentieths election. Branding reports about probes into voter fraud misinformation and clashes unrest in the armenian capital, as crowds demand the pm resign over a peace deal. They see as a capitulation to us about john in the war for the nagornokarabakh region. He said the one street or did all of these