Hello and welcome to cross talk were all things are considered on Peter Lavelle shifting alliances washingtons unrelenting policy assault against russia and china has already altered the world order what remains to be seen is how must go and beijing will Work Together to confront a hostile west also well america ever be normal again. To discuss a real news im joined by my guest Marcus Papadopoulos in london hes the editor of politics 1st magazine and in budapest we have george samueli he is an author and a you tuber the goggle or a gentleman cross uprose in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it or i was going to london marcus says you know weve been watching over the last few years a closer relationship between moscow and beijing and as a matter of fact a couple days ago when asked about the tension military alliance which these 2 countries do not know right now but thats possibility putin said this the russian president theoretically its quite possible to imagine with without any doubt our cooperation with china is bolstering the defense because capacity of chinas army terrain will show how it will develop we cant exclude it weve never heard this before from the russian president whats changed go ahead. In a period of 5 decades russia and china have gone from the brink of war with each other which could have it both Nuclear Weapons to a situation today where both countries have formed an informal sure c. G. Partnership with one another to stand american a call who mastery now given that 5 decades sees in relative terms of very short period of time the turnaround in relations between moscow and beijing is quite simply astonishing however i am of the opinion that theres a lation ship its raised russia and china is one of our fantasy it is one of necessity both countries need each other to prosper you know well its in a way. The over who to create power now i so i do not see any reason why the informal should see to partnership between russia and china wont break down of the forseeable future but there are serious challenges to that relationship and it is these challenges are only ones that people in washington and london become familiar with in recent times so for example china is continuing to try and undermine russias predominance in central asia and i hope to come all the more so once china launches its one belts and it is if again you have lost just very close relationship overlay shifts with india and vietnam which is a very serious concern for china because india and vietnam. Through various potential adversaries all china and china could very easily come including a war with both of those countries then you have chinas very close relationship with america which gives a lot of concern to the kremlin. And so we also have to tell you. Into consideration the military relationship now im very aware of president putin says boss im not so sure he really believes that there will be a military alliance because the russians are very sensitive in concerns about a supply of high tech. Honestly shines military because many in the kremlin often says. Lusher could be there was enough military force in china one day it could strengthen the National Security of the Russian Federation now all that said i see the relationship between russia and china continue in syria blossom in the future but there are very serious challenges cigarettes you know sure he really has when it didnt have to be this way this wasnt an inevitability here this relationship we can put ever whatever adjective you want to put in front of it but this is basically the makings of washington i mean and and they did they did it with eyes wide open go ahead george yes without question. What 3. Since the end of the cold war has been a massive expansion of nato something the russians would be to blame warned they didnt exist then to read. The United States with a growing brown key military agreement with russia most recently from the ins but before that from the a. B. M. Treaty and now as though theyre planning with a group of the open skies agreement. And now you know it could be that the new start treaty was also for that history so thats one thing but the other thing which is over real terms on russia is the level of a bit true that is directed toward russia and of from ordinary be from the tabloid press but from the very. Highest levels of the u. S. Government about the. The people who are in the executive branch with people who are in congress. And of course you have the media stoking those so when you have. The absence of any arms agreements a possible arms race developing process the sort of hostility yes then russia does view of britain and is obviously wrong towards china china also feels very threatened because it is gradually replacing the United States as the global they have Enormous Economic and financial power and never in history has one had your money quietly ceded its the role in the world to a rising veteran and given the hostility that emanating war china from trouble especially now biden is actually saying that trump of being too soft on china so its quite obvious that some sort of a serious home plate between the United States and china is like in the very near future so because the wives both russia and china book existential reasons are increasingly drawn towards each other a group who was saying was that this is a real possibility is not saying that its going to happen tomorrow at that it no real possibility so you know. Thats marcus and thats exactly how i read it is that you know its almost table and it is negotiable and it depends on external factors and i think that that was just kind of basically putting up the flag on the floor and seeing if anybody salutes and it is actually also a warning ok because theres theres this. Ridiculous li held concept in the west that russia is just begging to join the American Coalition and you know it and in its of this part of this american exceptionalism if you just listen to us and do it we say everything will be fine with the russians not thats not true in the chinese certainly dont know thats not true as a matter of right now china is on the receiving end of what russia has been on the receiving end for years go ahead mark. Oh absolutely paisa you know gone are the days away in the last just sort integration with the west and im talking about us in the early days. Since his tenure in power now that hes. Long gone laughter so the day eases shrive into a chief for potential in the wells and russia understands acutely that in order for his her its chief its full potential then he is really does have to seek to see egypt alliances around the world and that is one of the main reasons why russia has forms that they see unofficial shifts Egypt Partnership with china and its certainly the case that a military alliance between moscow and beijing ease possible unless those shall inches to the relationship which i outlined moments ago of his oath and our military alliance simply will not happen and it is it is also a case that there is talk in washington and london that the american screwed thats what we are should nixon attempted and indeed actually achieved to drool china away from us as nixon drew china away from the soviet union and i referred earlier to how china has a very very heavy relationship with america that is one way if the americans could achieve distrust in the relationship between moscow and beijing now i dont see that happening in the 1st. Boss or anything new anything is possible challenges between russia and china really have to be resolved and in regards to india russia has put itself forward so all of the parties concerned as a mediator as a british because russia is telling china india and 3 and a half that leslie was so for all. Less fuel cells for the soul the difference is that who is going to benefits it is going to be america. Russia acts and as a mediator has not worked so far because china and india came so close. The question is tension is growing thats free in china and finance and the chinese know who breaks out in strange china and india or china and vietnam have chinese soldiers who die and die behind last mays weapons and those options are on incident safe india and so i do hope this challenge charity results you know but i think i think that given the case of ok having difficulty resolving these issues ok its that these are very clear here but the other the other gambit is is to trust washington and i dont see thats possible i think that george you really i saw you nodding your head i mean the thing is is that the american politics is at a point right now were russia is just the cultural to fight your internal enemies ok so i cant see how this is going to change very much and i think the chinese have actually learned to watching how washington is treated a must in its a real printer because all the issues that mark has just brought up its probably easier to deal with those issues than to deal with the administration in the United States. Though we have a question peter because. This kind of talk. Comes from washington about how well we should now be a tilt toward russia against china just as nixon tilted towards china against the soviet union its just hogwash because. Of the so many years of unremitting hostility toward russia and serious threat towards russia you cant just turn around and say oh well that will be bygones be bygones and now please join. Join us in some kind of a Global Coalition against china i mean the russians arent stupid its made up of it well that essentially whats behind this is a kind of lets you and him fight you know theyre going to try and push russia into a war with china and then eikenberry going to just of the said back why this is this is a really bad conflict going on here so i think theres just you know that train left the station a long time ago. But i do think that the comfort china conflict with india and china conflict beat them while real are i think much less urgent right now than the conflict with the United States i mean thats the thats a serious one because here you get. The odds it which is really now very concerned about its role in the world and this is this is not happen this is were talking now but its likely 45. 00 no one has challenged the United States the supremacy in the world i mean yes the soviet union did when he came to nuclear arms but in terms of economics finance. Geopolitical influence still in it would rival the id say that china is now in a position to do that ok i didnt want any were going to go to west or break it up thats our break well continue more discussion and some real state party. Answers financial Survival Guide i dont buy any i pod im with you. On the friday as of last summer my ex in the future. Was guys are. In the 1920 s. And thirtys several 100 africanamericans moved to the soviet union and many of their descendants still live in russia. Being at the hospital i know now rushing across the upper to stop just to be truthful once upon things on their way to set their child on a definitional scale back home but i can merican. Suffered from racism and a complete lack of prospect. Of the real. One by else a store front. So they decided to leave everything behind and start a new life in a country about which they knew almost nothing at all some of the. Crew were to through the night. Around great crowds. To move a few bone to go. And now almost a 100 years later history is repeating itself my great grandfather george time when to russia. Probable worst time to go anywhere why not me. When i come here. Welcome back to crossfire were all things are considered im hearing all about remind you were discussing some real. Were going to go back to marcus sitting in london pat buchanan an author i often cite on this program it came out with another brilliant column a couple of days titled America Elaine sees conflict and he ruminates about the the illusion that some people have in the Political Class media in the United States is that once trumps gone everything is going to go back to normal will get every will be quiet and even you know joe biden said on the campaign trail nothing will fundamentally change these people dont know what theyre talking about because the rift that is going on in american politics and culture is so deep the obese being. A business is so deep that i think that you know what happened in the trunk ministration is this reflection of those divisions that he didnt create those divisions irrespective of how you feel about from so going back to normal thats an illusion marcus what do you think. America is not for want of a better word a new whole country firstly it was born out of genocide and secondly and the fact so im going to side now might be distasteful to a lot of people any particular near you liberals are quite frankly im not interested in what they Frank America is not a nation states and that Manes America has never truly had an identity america has never truly has a coach was the most soulful the largest groups groups in america are moving european for example with english german sorriest so sirish and and irish there are many other ethnic groups there if you take australia australian america has relatively speaking similar length periods of history there is more of an Australian National identity in culture and unity than there is in america because the vast majority of australians descend from the british ottos in particular england but in america the you do not have that sort of harmony so that is a major problem we hear a lot of liberals in america talk about how america is a successful military it would be nice if everyone in the wells was united that is not how human beings have evolved human beings have the foundations of us if over into trying that is the way it is the way its always will be and indeed fred im a person once ostroff a totally doesnt matter actually have a coach and im saying it doesnt because america is not a nation state that is why america will always be divided no matter who sits in but yet you can make the argument too that it is a nation state of multiple tribes ok i think that that. Thats a viable argument to make here but george you know to my point here i mean these divisions have been with us for a very long time and something one of my favorite mantras as you well know is that you know the the the neil liberal ideology that is that is practiced and forced down on on everyone its it does argue about what culture means what American Culture means but they refused to talk about class and that is the biggest division ok you know a black live matter there and you know our poor tshombe you know these are the things they do to keep us divided and i and i would be willing to say. Saw it very differently and its up to our viewers to decide how successful he has been but the you know the class issue is what got him elected and thats an issue that could get him reelected if he were focused on it but it is late day in the game i dont know if hes going to be able to who overcome the what you know joe biden said you know nothing will fundamentally change well thats the problem when things need to fundamentally change ok because the next republican after trauma it was in 4 years or 8 years its going to be somebody thats going to be like trump but probably a far more effective in office go ahead george. Yes theres the other problem with the United States you know and to be a functioning democracy in means that there is a consensus and theres a consensus about the succession of power i mean what happened in 2016 and i think it at least in terms of modern history is never happened which is one class simply refused to accept that election result well when that happens of course then 2 youve got the makings of a civil war because whichever way the selection goes its almost certainly going to be a very close one and its very unlikely that either side will accept the election result. Should be reelected then you the so those who have been rioting all of this year plus this all of the media allies will be justifying the violence of the with black lives matter they will be in support they will be they will support the violence and they will just simply refuse to accept trumps reelection whether they blame russia for it or theyll find Something Else of the blame the october surprise the brave bring it all trumps by bringing up the theres a laptop they will blame that and almost certainly within days of being inaugurated nancy pelosi house will launch an impeachment yet another impeachment if it goes the other way if it goes if biden wins and particularly after what were going to have these elections you where were going to be counting and counting and counting for weeks on end and so on the woe by them is one weve got the votes then i think theyll be a real burst in the growth of the militant movement and as happened in the ninetys its quite likely that the u. S. Administration will likely try to crack down on the militant movement. If it ends in the kind of bloodshed as happened in waco 1903 then you know then the best really good to be of violence a very serious insurrection that the government may well not be able to cope with because even the government if they dont dont have like other little happen of waco i mean Yemeni Government itself there he might ok thats when you you know marcus i dont think the topic for the program i think there is American Culture but i mean probably think about it differently being an american i suppose but i mean one thing that you know for a viable nations you have to have institutions where there is a consensus that they these institutions have legitimacy kind of picking up my georges and their these institutions you know not have universal legitimacy and not is the problem right here people dont believe in the electoral outcomes anymore ok they dont believe that the in the state is going to enforce protection of their rights weve seen and it depends on what you know what your political create is i mean you can you can land on one side of the law and if you have a different radio on another side ok and its basically liberals that take care of themselves and if you put the perfect example of people in drums or bit being indicted and things like that then with the legitimacy of the system as they say is in doubt this election is going to show it go ahead moms if i. Was following a society to get off a dominant culture that is absolutely crucial for ensuring. Existence we are a society but i absolutely accept there are many other factors which can be sciences to account for why American Society historically is divided and as you correctly cited peter cost is a major factor and that is something about i think the democrats and all those upon it can see. You cant in syria count those who stay down i suspect they know its the case. Yes that lisa me on syria my next point is i believe that if there is to be who he lists chance surrealistic opportunity creates in a far greater degree off harmony never in society then there has to be. Another Political Party in america one that is truly independent one that does not have its highest so very slow uclear spirit miss military industrial. Complex to the Big Pharmaceutical Companies foreign policy. Israel and saudi arabia they have only they could there be a real chance your life both and. That is more shots of hell freezes over then another os in russia a lot of price embrace a britain is dominated by the conservative party and the labor party unless that changes in britain unless changes in america then the situation we see in both countries will just continue indefinitely its been continuing like hundreds of years peter nothing fundamentally changes in either britain or america or why those policies in america britain parts of the the assassinations the british and the american perspective. You know you know george really unite talked about the gaggle about how pleased we were the d. O. J. Was starting antitrust against google unfortunately an american problem in the u. K. Do you can have antitrust against Political Parties it is i would be all for it i had to break up those do big parties because the fact of the matter is the most common political affiliation in the United States is not affiliated ok they the majority of the population of voting age is politically home. Yes ok and weak and as long as they remain homeless the status quo will be maintained except for changes on the margins ok and its all about you know its its a celebrity politics is what its about nobody wants to talk about the substance because if you did most people of pull out of a pitchfork and they should go ahead george yes yes thats right and its kind of interesting that when a 3rd party has attempted to. Push their way into the United States they were met with or roches opposition by the maids the but is there a personal tied them up in court because its quite hard to get on the balance in the United States in the you have to have 50000 signatures or whatever and you keep challenging the signatures you take them to put on a century by. This all happened with rust or oh theres your top of the bag you got another and then what you had when the gates are aroused nader is a Massive Media but still it was him you know how dare you run how dare you take the oath the way of an argument not rights based you know you well. Thats right and they did not win with jill stein the great you are letting in trouble you were working for the business clearly a russian well. To bring up well so it is extremely hard for a thought but you know out of the anywhere else or in other countries but bodies are emerging not too much difficulty but in the United States almost impossible to do that but but youre right when you if you get a situation where people are homeless and are unable to express their their desires then violence is more likely out unfortunately have to leave on their very depressing point i want to thank my guests in budapest and in london i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r. T. See you next time remember. Join me every 1st day on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business im showbusiness ill see you then. Go in and you may never get out some sort of the most of. My teenage gang rules here. I dont want you to mow. My goat you know you were. But. Maybe you will. Kill. You. Minus a murderer. Was. Looking for the. Belt in the leg not when. You know when you were the monkey and. Can use all i see. French products to remove from the shelves from portraits of a manual mccrum of burns and some muslim countries that is anger over a crackdown on suspected islamic extremists following a beheading in paris we get reaction in france Good Government still goes on to divide us it will create separate groups in society and it is not the solution today we have to be careful of not developing and then to muslim patriots. On. The street fight breaks out between trying fans and haters in times square although the bitter rivals in next weeks u. S. President ial election appear to agree on a lot more semester porters may think and the russian evolutionary biologist establishes that there are some 20000 me tell you of coronavirus we talked to him about being