Someone who has been knocked out by mike tyson for instance really unconscious at that moment. Well i dont know what it is like to be knocked out by my. Question about him when we lose i think the historical. So he is that we have. Consciousness as all or nothing you read or not unconscious or comatose or you are conscious and this led one exists is. Probably wrong. With others so that consciousness. And loss of countries this can be very gradual and i think this is this is very important soroti when i started this research in the ninetys we had it oh my. And it was. What we. Call and. The stage of stage where people looked away but were. Basically just waiting to die now we know that many patients we talk to are unconscious or so. And so this is very important. Or less consciousness is not all or nothing ok i think that this talk will be about different gradations of how much will lose conscience and what a conscious really is in different states for instance some people write they report saying all kinds of wild things during a near death experience which would call an unconscious state of mind i know that some Scientists Say oh these are just how listen ations but if my brain is hallucinating in this state right in means i still have conscious is just you know tripping on something so does that mean that even in the state of comma a human being possesses like you say minimal or some sort of consciousness do we have a notion of how much could that be and what is it. I think youre absolutely right that again the error which is made is when trying to measure consciousness how do we do that were having this discussion right now were talking if you will come talk we will use sign language or something so the only person right now sylvia who knows what she sending feeling is you and you alone so you need to share that and of course if you who are coming up those considered unconscious can no longer communicate and so what do we do we basically look from the outside its myself as a clinician as someone who tries to measure and measurable consciousness im gonna ask questions and so in intensive care we feel that a severe traumatic brain injury or a bleeding who survived a cardiac arrest and or in this kind of those states i would ask him to do something squeeze my hands make any movements and then if i had to announce or i kind of test proof that they are conscious but of course when they dump it on sir did i really prove that theyre on townships no so this is very tricky were making inferences based on peoples motor response when trying to measure consciousness article and sometimes we can get it wrong and i think as you said we have underestimated the capacity of the brain. Off to colo when we think theres nothing going on like in some patients off to coma like in people who have a near death experience this is very clear evidence that this idea is they can have a very rich subject this personal. And ceiling but also like you know we see this in the movies and sometimes we hear someone who has been in a coma our reputation state for a long time and the relatives for instance refusing to give up on that person every day being by his side and talking to him believing that he can hear them and then sometimes miracles happen this people come out of fetid tate of states or commas and they start living normally gradually and most of them actually say that they could hear people talking to them while they were unconscious do you see how that happens well absolutely i think with the scene we contribute to do a better understanding residual brains function after coma and so was in the European Task force and also now the American Academy of neurology we propose it more neutral term which is under sciences weight so. From now well try to refer to these people no longer as educated but as unresponsive they just no longer responds to questions and yet they look away and indeed this is a difficult i know theres a substantial. Fraction of these patients who have. Ceilings emotions and itself and very frustrating because we downed axis so what theyre actually perceiving and that is the editor of the religion and thats the expertise of the dean here because science book when we use functional m. R. I. Hi this is easy if you see some machines here behind me all possible measures to try. And document whats going on inside so we no longer depend on the motor response we can go and measured directly whats happening in the brain right so i read that you have located the area out the brain that is responsible for ending seeing this vision. Tunnel into the afterlife so how rare would you say this experience is sounding if you can physically observe the impulses creating them so it ends what do you mean by real its we have. A scientific challenge to define what is reality but i think its very real slow down and i think its a sees a logical reality where i dont think we should be too arrogant this is being many years now that weve seen with trying to understand these near death experiences that nobody truly can explain and maybe if i can sophia. Has a little request for everybody watching us now in russia who maybe has such an experience or who knows someone who had a near death experience please share it with scientists share it with us email addresses very simple and deep from near death experience. The to be or visit our website i created a sunday show in its mind care mind carried out sunday show where including with our friends in russia all over the world we try to reduce our insurance when talking about consciousness including the very 2nd aging topic of near death experiences that we need more testimonies we have over thousands but sometimes i feel frustrated because i never had one so i should start by listening very carefully to people who have. And then try to understand so they temper apparent told junction as far as i understand is also linked to things like schizophrenia alzheimers. In the case of grey. My favorite organ and youre absolutely right that we have part of the brain right here in the middle its on the right side where if i was simulate it and even Healthy People one could prove folk socalled out of body experience so this is interesting now i dont think we should again say that just this part of the brain explains near death experience its too reductionistic but it is interesting to have some hypothesis another part here is important for this feeling of presence then of course deep assisted told. Tracks that are quite sensitive to lack of oxygen can give this kind of tunnels it isnt this bright centralized and we also know the stories about people having flashbacks of their lives and this is a structure here deep in the temporal lobe that is important for memory where we have patients with my brain a free stroke that sometimes the stories that are making me think of near death experience dan i think were not there yet we are making brain scans in people who had a near death experience and trying to make correlations the truly presently it would be too arrogant to say well this is just this our dead chemical process in this or that part of the brain weve understood it and know i think we need to be more curious and to study it but also with an open mind because some treasonous truly is one of the biggest mysteries size is trying to solve ok lets say if we stop dismissing near death experiences as just a person and you nation right and we accept them as important brain activity what can we really say about them as of now definitely what are they back when from near a science point of view. Well the scientists will tell you be careful. What is true today is not necessarily true tomorrow so it is about the scientific methodology strine to confront what to crush them to under said was what you think you can measure and so currently yes we have a couple of hypothesis we got a number of space perceived it seems that kind of reduce our ignorance but its still a challenge for science im fascinated by the sat that people have for us and look harder caressed when we know that the brain is using so much energy there is no other organ in your body that needs so much energy and suddenly theres no longer that for a number of energy these people have these very rich and details. And memories of how is that its important to stress that they are not deaths because for some people also this is proof of life after death so i wouldnt agree i think currently death is really a from tear it is a code for us to study we consider it in society as well indeed binary youre either dead or aligned with biologically speaking this is a process and now with modern medicine and technology we can resuscitate some people for example was a guardian for us and we need to increase our efforts to understand the process of dying at one point to become serious 1st of all and that is what we conceive of death so near death really shows. We should as a side dish community as a medical community the more curious and to study this phenomenon more and i think we were literally just scraped we consider this so complicated and we. Suffered from otto censureship we considered this maybe as itself which it should still and will that take a short break right now when were back well continue talking to dr steven law has he is one of the worlds leading researchers in a neurologist consciousness stay with us. But the pandemic no certainly no borders just blood into nationalities. You. As American People to which i repeat we dont look like seeing the whole world to be. Judged as coming every crisis we just dont think. We can do better we should be. Everyone is contributing each of their own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges create the response has been so many good people are helping us. It makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. Is youll be via reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe for. The isolation community. Are you going the right way or are you being led. Directly. What is true. Is faith. In the world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Or a maybe in the shallows. Americans love buying homes. This was a fundamental part of how our Political Leadership and our country a large understood the bargain you get a hoe and then you know rebel right as the things you dont revolt if you have a stake in the system. Of the really interesting back and think about the longer deeper history housings men in the United States not just that old question of the American Dream the bigger question of who the dream is and for. And were back with professor stephen. Belgian researcher a professor of neurology talking about what consciousness is and how much do we really know about it stephen when you have that near death experience everyone has very different visions i mean some people see their parents some see their lovers some see tunnels is there something anything from with people youve spoken to who have shared their experience with you about this vision. That they have in common for instance if im asked they said that dont believe in the afterlife right and im on my my my brain functions in a way that i dont i dont believe there will be a tunnel after i died that i see right with a light leading me to have an or whatever will i see the same thing as a person that for instance very religious and believes in an afterlife is there like a common thing a Common Threat that all death experiences have. Yes there is i think there is something universal across all cultures and we tried to. Give it time to stop 10 so what is the most. Common in our cohorts mostly. Jews are christian western and the 1st one is that they all feel extremely good sometimes they dont ask even the words to express how good they felt and actually difficult to come back next is this notion of a lie than the out of body experience they lose track just on and it was very interesting to me when having this discussion ends in petersburg with father sergei who is a. Religious leader in the Orthodox Church but also discuss this with people. In the intensive care and he said that in his experience about cissy are so often patients had negative experience and that is something that maybe we should try to explore more and hence again i think i would lie it more or people from russia to shared it and to compare it with what we see in belgium and france in the United States where we have now sauza and a specimen east and another example that strikes me is. The interpretation of the tunnel you mentioned already which seems to be different when talking with my colleagues and in the muslim world where it would be sometimes interpreted as a door or in india where when i did come for instance and we also collaborate there its more like a river so yes something seems to be clearly universal but also there are difference individual differences that may be also cultural differences that they currently are too anecdotal remediate more evidence what maybe we can compare it to is greek strikes i dont know socio if you ever had a near death experience so it is difficult for us to talk about but you had greece right i had to move all the time and i think your dreams in my dreams somehow are similar in their surrealistic contents and we can yes say that there is something dreamlike but of course mine dreams in be very different in their precise content then yourselves so my answer about near death experiences is i think this is a says a logical reality that needs more science that has a shared common structure but also with maybe a personal meaning that can depend on where we were up and of course my friends and colleagues in india will hear. Much. Less frequently people talking about the virgin mary or jesus and vice versa here we have less people talking about some indian guts the began this needs to be documented more. More want more details matter but when you asked me if im an atheist well have a near death experience yes and maybe youll even have a missy experiences so far when we look at the dozens of tests in the news we have is very hard for me to predicts we have very religious people who have these experiences sometimes they will indeed read this as something that brings them closer to god that they will become more religious but not necessarily and also vice versa so i think its not just i a very religious person so i have this or that near death experience i think there are in this a biological substrates people often run out of options and now were talking about assisted death for those who lost consciousness forever so in your opinion does that mean that we quit being conscious were being alive in a sense so when my heart and my body functions but my brain is unresponsive congress cognitively that and my still a life its. A very important question where. We has a definition for death ok when youre done 8 that is when your heart and lungs and brain cease to function and areas are simple then say this is more complicated when a decision is entered a new machine the arcus issue respirator let me again show you such a machine. So this change the course of history its redefined death this machine by the way it is calls osea this auster greek that the each citizen does of the oxalis was this so this machine for the 1st sign cats patients was very very devastating brain that most rethinks to the machine so there certainly isnt going to be insert and as a medical community we redefine death not just of the heart and lung criteria but not also in brain right that is what we call brain death so when your brain is death no according to medicine and according to law you are death theres nothing we can do we can decide. Thats very important and in mind there is not much certainty when i see it patients and i and i try to get is a diagnosis it is what we call probabilistic ok it is what i think this patient hast when we say someone is death it shouldnt be probabilistic it should be riotous we dont want to get this wrong and so maybe also i can reassure the russian viewers we have these criteria says the 56 and there is never actually been a single patient where the criteria of brain that covered consciousness ok there has been diagnostic errors and medical professional errors but if you do the job correctly then brain death truly is death so i read we managed to measure brain activity and seemingly unconscious patients by looking and prayed metabolise and so basically consciousness can be observed by counting how much energy. Brain is consuming but what about the future one of the possibility of brain scanning and in future what were trying to realistically be able to sing side of human brain thats saying carriers. Honestly yeah you know. So sometimes we make big claims and i listen its always in lust and his company or a lady whos trying to plug in. Computers into the human brain thats great is yes Wonderful Technology but. I think the complexity of the human brain and more importantly the human mind is tremendous so i dont know whats going to be possible in 10 years. We dont even know what we dont know so perhaps we are just so this 50 percent when we talk about the human brain and minds or 5 percent or 0. 005 percent so truly this is fascinating time yes we have all these things knowledge and see here grace. Machines that permit us to zoom in on the workings of the human mind but again we shouldnt be too arrogant its a complexity its currently were struggling with and sometimes is those very quickly. Sometimes you know its terribly difficult and slow like when are we the Science Fiction books of my father even my grandfather we would be driving around in slime carse its not happening were still driving around in stupid cars hes 4 wheels so its very very difficult and i think that the human mind is truly trust us. So just as the origin of matter something that at one point. Its been more than 25 years now im studying they did the most of this and theres just the sort of. Spiritual. I can study. Today and we dont know who. It was so interesting talking to you thank you very much for your dedication to this very important topic and you kept saying were actually watched all over the world not only in russia. So hopefully youll get lots of emails people sharing their near death experiences with you good luck with everything and hopefully you know little more about what consciousness is and how human brain functions in the nearest future. 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