G. O. P. Strategist and in new york we cross to sarah norman she is a democratic strategist Digital Marketer and Data Scientist in the 2020 president ial election she served as these Senior Adviser of digital on the come on the Harris Campaign already crossed out rules and i think that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok lets go to sarah sarahs that i guess the simplest question i can ask you is program because its the topic of it should we trust the polls ok because we do have the the after effect of 2016 but i think a lot of people exaggerate how much the polls were off ok they were but i mean since 0 significant. Even if they had the same margin of error this time again a lot of the polls would say the outcome would be no different by the way so simple question then youre probably the ideal person to ask your digital person ok should we trust the polls. I trust the polls as a strong and big. Later of whats going on but we have to understand what theyre saying and their limitations so 1st lets talk about what the polls are saying using 2016 as you mentioned as an example so in chick out the 16 the average of polls said that hillary had about an 85 percent chance of winning well that means the polls were also saying that she had about an 85 percent chance of losing so if youre picturing hillary rolling the dice pollsters dont control it she rolls that one in 7 chance where she loses so thats what the polls are saying theyre talking about chances but we also have to consider the polls limitations so in this year i think of it as 2 sets of limitations we have the normal limitations that happen every election cycle and then theres limitations that are special to 2021st talking about the normal limitation so every poll has a margin of error for a reason and we know that theres going to be groups that are under counted in 2016 it became notorious for undercount counting the impact of education levels this year we dont know what its going to be it could be women for example right now biden has a 26. 00 point lead among women so theres probably very few women for a truck to grab so to speak but if women stay home they will be handing the election over to trump and then we will be saying that the polls got it wrong but whats special this year is the unique challenges to 2020 the polls dont account of correctly for Voter Suppression because we dont know how big the impact will be we do know one where people have access to voting its an advantage to democrats were less people back to voting its an advantage sure publicans but whats especially unique this year is its the 1st time that we have an american president casting doubt on the Election Results before they even come in so were really talking about 2 things to each. Yes the polls and do we trust our democracy that the answer to the 1st question for me is yes we trust the quote there pretty good indicator chances of how people will vote but do we trust our democracy will we trust the results even if the poll caught it right thats an entirely different question the reporter cannot answer your mother kind of how do you respond to that do you trust the polls because. In the last couple of days we talked about the narrowing but sarah just brought up a really good point i mean looking at the. Consider when she when a trump is doing very poorly there you know and just and kind of kind of in life in this conversation is that its it seems like is it dead heat in georgia i mean i thought that was a red state ok so do you trust the polls. So the polls we have always used polls to determine many things elections are just one of them so yes i believe polls d d i trust polls because thats the only gauge that we have to really know whats happening in it in an election we always use them as sarah said 2016 was a different story i dont know its for me and i know a lot of conservatives out there you know theyre saying that of course were going to have a repeat of 2016 we really dont know we dont know when we wont know until election day because if there are say that there are a number of factors that are present now ill just lead wonder about the number of other county votes so for instance me when im out so i can to so many people not just black not just why not just asian or hispanic the number of those i just wonder what the polls can account for what they dont know so if you arent really polling or able to hold people who will never ever say that theyre supporting donald trump then you dont get you dont capture that number so i actually wonder how many of those voters who are just simply afraid i know i do i have so how. Any who are in my message box and theyre often say i would never say it publicly but i support truck that could be a very very small number we dont know that but it could actually be a number thats substantial enough to flip the election in favor of donald trump i think that i think says eric didnt mention you know the 2 prongs that were really dealing with but i think that one of the other things that we have to understand is that since 2016 our politicians here in washington d. C. Definitely on the democratic side but in some cases republicans too but they have cast it down on dont trucks own election so this is something weve been dealing with now since 2016 great theres a lot i know there are plenty of people dont even believe that trump is the president here i mean i dont want to get i want to i want to talk i want to talk about poll im a conservative you know and you know im not voting for for a bike but im interested in the polls because i think this is whats going to get down to 0 what is the correlation of people making a preference stating a preference and actual voter turnout is a very Good Research on that are you talking about the idea of a shy or i would give them kind of leading to that what im just saying is it because we have this very day and we in we have to tell our viewers because its international is that each state has different laws about how you count votes a bit but we have absentee we have mail and i mean its much more complicated that way and i wonder is there any polling data that tracks that because of the way the election is being conducted this year or is that just an unknowable. So we know that there will be some margin of error about why every poll comes out with a margin of error 2016 was actually in the normal margin of error. Terms of people saying theyre going to vote one way and then they vote another tribe thats i what im saying not voting i mean theres a preference but they end up not voting and thats what my question is that if one of the biggest question of the election but what i would say i think a lot of people are looking to the early the early vote to answer that which i believe is a mistake just because theres a large amount of early vote is not mean that were going to see less people show up on the election day so im going to chop that up too i wish i had the crystal ball to say if people who say that theyre going to vote are actually going to vote we know that that was a big mess by hillary supporters in 2016 they thought that hillary has this in the bag misunderstood the polls they thought that 85 percent chance met shes definitely going to win i dont have to show up let me be clear you know if you supported by it and to say ok has it in the bag i dont need to show up and vote would absolutely be a mistake there is a chance that trump is going to win about the same chances he had in 2016. Ok were going to talk about the shy trump voters ok mostly is that is it real i mean because when we think about it you know when i think when someone calls me on my phone and i dont recognize the number i usually dont answer its ok but i dont know that you know its i dont want to spam and personally why should i tell someone on the telephone what i think about politics i dont know about personal k. Youre seem like nice people to me and im telling you what i think youre you get my point here i mean because of the way trunk is treated by the media is. Maybe theres a good percentage of people to say well you know im i can tell you what i think. I honestly think that shah is really too modest at work there are people literally afraid there are in and its not just hyperbole i know people who under no circumstance would probably fail if you want else does or theyre supporting trump their freight for their jobs their frayed for someone myself who lost many friends when i decided to support donald trump this is real not everyone is outspoken as i am and feel comfortable talking to people about why he support but i absolutely believe that the number of shot or silent that silent majority who supported donald trump i do believe that that number is definitely greater in 2020 much more so than it was in 2016 because its better much more damaging to say that you support donald trump now as opposed to 20160 how does the polling model to deal with whats called the shy trump voter is there a way you can do it. And here is but lets lets be clear now talk about your point in this package while there may or may well be a shy trump voter or a shy biden poll where they are unlikely going to have a huge typical impact on the election there is some evidence on the state level for trump voter very gamble i saw a poll yesterday in New Hampshire that Republican Voters were much less likely to openly say that they plan to vote for trump this year than democrats saying that they plan to vote for biden however i mean that state where trump has about a 15 point lead so its not going to make a huge the typical impact and on the National Level it seems that theres just as many bite a shy bite in voters as voters you know when we look at the National Level to address. Your question directly the way that we answer it is we see ok well when we take polls over the phone to people change their answers compared to when we take it and nominate my and the answer is both on the biden side and the trucks according to the answers stays about the same so i dont see this as being at huge impact on the election never heard of a shite by him go to im never heard that. You should talk to some people in california. Well you can start in the red if you heard of such a thing as a as a shot by voter and this is this is a very very new ive never heard of a shy bided voter at all so true it may exist but i dont know whats the damage and outing yourself as a biden voter you know one of the things that i think that you know because of 2016 this is created a lot of doubt in peoples minds and and its really mean we dont have to go into the weeds of the numbers right now but it was only in a few congressional districts that really made the difference ok in the 2nd half of the program want to talk about the possibility and it is really interesting if you look at the live talk of the Electoral College its not impossible that at this point either candidate could have almost a landslide and thats really boggles the mind ok when you have such it with whats called a title election but it just same time and i dont think were going to hear it on Election Night or in the next morning but it could radically go each way and i want to talk about that when we come back were going to jump in were going to go to a short break and after that short break well to you know what especially a whole. Lot of people talking about is this the beginning. China is the worlds superpower but theyre not thinking about another end of an era in that would be the us central bank. Welcome to cross town where all things are considered im hearing about remind you were discussing polling. Ok well lets go back to sarah sarah in looking at some of the commentary not experts youre an expert but the comments coming kerry the election and we again our viewers have to understand its not the popular vote that elects the president at least at this point in American History it is the states Electoral College here now some of the scenarios i look at here its possible when its within the realm of possibility to try to use your exact language here is within the realm of possibility that either candidate could run away with this how could that happen explain by right away do you mean win in a landslide or doubt no i mean i mean when signaller 30300 electoral votes yes so right now they are in a ballot 35 percent chance if you agree with the polls that by tomorrow when in a landslide and a ballot a one percent chance that trump will win in the landslide so again im not saying its not possible for trump to do that there is that one percent chance if you agree with the paul its just less likely than biden but what what im worried about because you know i dont think that thats going to happen you know even if it happens on the biden side we have that about one 3rd chance or he wins in a landslide you know that means theres about a 2 thirds chance that he does and also doesnt win in the landslide if there is no way and slide i a. Holiday to anyone who thinks that this is going to be a quick result on november or buckle up going to be highly contested and last there is a landslide in either side and by the way usually we define landslide as a ran of 10 points or more which again cant that neither side will have that and these will be contested her a long time in the court well you need to go back to washington i mean the reason why i really wanted to do this program is that you know people do see me the polls but because there is no doubt holes and series are a hit on the on the head here people didnt doubt the outcome and no matter what it is ok and that is the scary part here not only is it a challenge to vote this in this president ial election cycle because of the penn demick but you know there is theres real suspicion on both sides unlike other ever seen in my life i mean its extraordinary i mean and its really sad too because in the elections of those would be you know this is where you get out metaphorically of course and then you shake the competitors him when its all done but i dont see that happening and why is the case here because it and you play both sides for it and you blame the i believe its an antiquated election system that can create these kinds of doubts i mean if you doubt the polls youre going to doubt the outcome and thats a bad place what do you think my friend and so absolutely we are living in a very partisan times and people they do donald trump things didnt get better under donald trump for sure but going back to george bush weve had a very toxic Political Climate for a while you can even say clinton but i guess ill start with social media the area of maybe 2000 before social media so theres always been this type of. Toxic discourse post donald trump into the 2016 election both sides have really done a really horrible job at encouraging us to trust our own instincts trust our own democracy they have there is an aura group here called the Bipartisan Policy Center they produced a document that talks about the difference between absentee in mail and voting and the difficulty in doing that during a pandemic this is real but what is the discussion that were having around the country democrats say that republicans dont want mail in millen voting because it hurts. You know republicans republicans are saying that democrats want mail in voting because it helps them you know this is just unfortunately a consequence of all years and years of our political living in a Political Climate where these were actually encouraged to distrust whether its a republican in office or even when barack obama was in office we saw the same thing on the conservative side where we gear each other to not trust the government so the recent Supreme Court ruling here that actually gave me i think it was a 23 additional days for absentee count absentee votes there is no way in the world and i agree with sarah if its a close election you can forget an immediate answer to who will on the presidency you can forget it well as they are and because of that hiatus that were all expecting here you know the the worst partisans on both sides are going to make outrageous claims inflame the situation and. And were just going to get to a point unfortunately where people are just if what we just heard is absolutely right but the faith in institutions institutional faith has gone down dramatically i mean who would have thought that the post office would be in the center of all of this and you know sarah maybe to kind of get out of your kind of polling thing but just give me a kind of. One of the things that is seems to me thats different about this election or maybe its an echo of 2016 too is that you know there is this demonizing of the voter and usually you dont do that its not a good idea to do that to voters because theyre the ones that are going to suppose you do the process here but we get we can get on both sides ok you know the whole smelly walmart people and then and then then these liberal elitists and things like that you know and and then they bring in there theres issues about their social issues and cultural issues but ive never seen voters so demeaned in the political process and i think thats really dangerous when you do that and you guess again you degrade the institutional process your thoughts ok you know that makes me really sad to hear that you feel that voter had been demon i i i certainly hope im not sure the poll that. You know i had i i i disagree with that what i would say at where we can agree is we need to hold our leaders accountable and make sure that they are talking about what we want them to talk about that we show up on voting day based on the issues that actually impact our daily lives which right now are they in majority of the american and its endemic the economy and their health care and you know i think that theres a lot of distraction going on but i think that thats what will make people show up on the election day or vote early. And thats how we hold our leaders accountable or you know its very im so glad you say that because if you look at it its up by putting if there really are a lot of bipartisan things in american politics you know in the in the number one things that you list that democrats list as you go is exactly the same thing that republicans like but we dont get that in the political rhetoric all the time i agree with you with me in watching these debates you know everyone focuses only on the form im far more interested in the content you know they are are are people going to be taken care of you know or you know are they going to be made whole ok i think either candidate would say that would run away with this election but neither candidate can say that im ok and of course im out and im a im a conservative but i think you know the the failings of the Health Care System are so obvious for everyone to see during this pandemic but its not part of the political process can you address that because it seems to me to have time to thousands and thousands of people on this program is that you know you know at the grassroots youre so much Common Ground but is soon as it goes up the political ladder i mean they kind of forget about us i mean how do you explain it well i give you that i give you a real life example there are the g. O. P. Police reform bill the g. O. P. Police reform bill and the democrats bill. Reform bill there did the democrats agreed what about 90 percent of what was in the g. O. P. Bill 90 percent thats thats simply amazing but what happened is is that politics got into it and so then democrats decided that well hey were not going to support that off republicans have done the same thing im not one of those who excuses everything that the Republican Party does but i also believe that its important that we hold both sides accountable not just the ones that you agree with but even the ones that you may disagree but at times and so this is a function of years and years you mentioned the poor girls yes the 2016 report deplorable so people can say that theyve you know we misinterpreted what she said but there was also 2012 with mitt romney talking about the 49 percent of americans will always vote democrat or in that time for barack obama this and you were talking about what the language that we use about voters now voters on both sides there we turn each other into lees evil creatures who for many many of us youre simply our neighbor. Yeah yeah yeah i think absolutely because you know no matter how rich you are Everyone Needs health care ok this implies that i mean if the if we look at the i guess as were speaking right now the stimulus talks are are installed and gone ok thats an 8020 years issue 8020 issue among the population 2080 and Neither Party is going to act on that here thats why going back and i think senator youre the one that brought it up 1st is that you know this lack of faith in institutions i mean my goodness if you have an 8020 is you its a real wake up call and you know what its easy to we if youre not an aide let me use you here you know. Were almost out of time here. What is the whats the best case for someone that does what you say your profession about polling what are you looking for what mistakes are you looking for what are the weaknesses as we go into this traumatic event november 3rd you know i actually feel pretty good about the polls because we expect the polls to have air every pull has a margin of error so in terms of after the election is over when were questioning at the polls got it right i think that were going to have they say hey yes we missed this one thing at the expected you know we expect something unexpected. My fear my worst Case Scenario is that this election never ends because of predication so im hoping for a landslide who went to paris all of that. Well i think that you know and we can end on this note here is that unfortunately like so much other things in our daily life is its going to be litigated ok and i think thats thats sad i mean i was disappointed with not not because of the outcome in 2000 but that the Supreme Courts have had to do it and i think that was kind of. A failing of the process ok and we should have learned from that you know to avoid that you know dangling chad i think it was ok get a sarah i dont even think you were born and then. Were going to have mark my words were going to has Something Like that ok. On the week of november 3rd ok so hopefully you both come back and well can be well talk about what went right and what went wrong what if they both my guess youre miley and sarah and want to take our viewers for watching us get our p. C. In next time remember. When i was still seemed wrong. But all roles just dont call. Me ill get to see palin to stay active. And in detroit because the trail. 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