Point man on nationality he was the nationality. In among the bolsheviks and he decided. That the region of my god should be a part of i was there by john b. You know within the within the territory by john. And its ethnic make the exactly its ethnically armenian the armenians were going on about this is the need is there that this would be a part of i mean but he decided to be a part of us there by john in large part because the bolsheviks was seeking to appeal to the muslims of asia and also the muslims of the of the what became the u. S. S. R. And in particular look. At thats right and the nascent bolshevik regime was making great efforts to. Keep turkey happy. So that back when it was set up now of course it didnt really madness. Much within the u. S. S. R. Because everybody just did as they were told by the leadership in moscow but when it when the soviet union broke up in that completely chaotic. Way then of course these national issues. It was one thing to be for the armenians of the border guard about the pot of us led by john which was within the soviet union and its quite another thing to be part of us that by john which is now an independent state i mean really going on since since the breakup of the soviet union one of the things that makes it different than what we saw from the original complex out of the end of the soviet union was in the late eightys early ninetys i want to be unimpressed this you in this case both countries are relatively well armed now. Even though azerbaijan has significantly more well because of oil and russia is supplies the arms to both countries more or less here but the difference in this case this time around is its becoming much more internationalized turkey is playing a major role here and a lot of people are very critical of turkeys role here israel is involved others want to pull in iran this is the internationalization of it if it were internationalize it would be a repeat weve seen a number of times this is what makes it different this time. Well youre absolutely right i think. A lot of qantas just behaving irresponsibly to this company. I would just suggest you compare the statements of president and the statements of the kremlin and gone just open to say yes i cold who will support everything in azerbaijan thinks it makes sense to do it for its security and. What kind of gasoline to do it is that so there is certainly irresponsible on the side of turkey baster why did it become possible turkey has not behaved so responsibly in during the last conflict and in 1940 basically with the big 3 or one media well i think the reason is basically what happened in the last i would say 1015 years just let me remind you when turkey syria in 2000 you havent 1012 all been everyone reported the western press reports of the turkey supported you know the terrorist groups that entered syria from the north it was not a secret nato was on the side of turkey let me remind you of that when syria downed turkish fighter planes always its territory in the beginning all the war quite legally because the turkish fighter plane was on the syrian the syrian airspace nato even had a crisis meeting they were deciding what to do in order to support to make it. Ironically just a few years later in 2000 i guess 19 when turkey moved against their American Allies in the north of syria against the kurds that a future of nature was completely different they started talking about ever go on trespassing the borders over sovereign state or syria which they didnt care about just a few years ago right so it was a complete change of attitude. Unfortunately after gun kind of what did you love it so if you do think that the west not object to youre free to act as you walk as you want basically in this situation he decided that. Just of all time to give support to us and by john not reached by the drunk back dissident then one of the things that we discussed all 3 of us to discuss previously is that why disturb you do it is because it can do it here and thats it thats a very dangerous form almost the ok because youre not thinking about the consequences of it george there are there are media reports that oh well its through a turkish channels that you have fighters from syria and libya and the in the caliber of that these are militants just addis by one description or another theyre being transported into this conflict into the box that is a very dangerous step here and considering what demon just said about the reaction to turkey we have to french president speaking very very clearly that this is a very Dangerous Development according to reports george yes the reports certainly credible and i dont know what extent theyve been confirmed but they are those are widely. Accessible reports and its certainly consistent with Everything Else that no one has done i mean a great remember initially there were these jihadi terrorists who were transferred from libya to syria you need to talk them out of the overthrow of gaddafi and then recently france. From syria to libya so that we would be publicly plausible. Now to be transferring jihadi fighters from syria as thereby get. It as you say why is there no one doing this yet because he can he figures that if he creates enough trouble than he is heavy defeats on the armenians then you know russia and the rest of the mince group will have to accept realities on the ground. You know the armenians will have to give up some terror. Within hours or by just. The charity of my going to care about being reduced and then there go on will fail this is a great victory yet another frances Foreign Policy but also that we signal the defeat for Russian Foreign minister. That they really dont think is you know i mean people talk about america while in this neo ottoman is a 1000000 things like that i mean theres a literature on it and maybe its a pipe dream too but one thing is undeniable in all of this this is a major irritant for russia because russia trades with these country i mean even to the point with a kind of military hardware with planes very example both governments need permission from russia to use them in military absent here i mean this is a real annoyance for the kremlin here and maybe thats the whole point go ahead. Well i would say that both sides of course have arguments in their favor and i dont buy junk some arguments too because well i think you know lets be clear in the cannot about a bishop legally under International Law is part of us or by juggling absolutely and when the war ended in 1904 as i said it was armenians victory and most of their refuse genie is from the government car park where ethnic azerbaijan yes not only is and i want to cut off armenian control but also several. Districts or over again by jump rope on armenian control so i think what we should all pray for is that baku just wants to get back to these areas which are not populated almost by a new one right now that would be i think the best outcome because it would be you know the formula security in return for terrorist in action but unfortunately there is a high risk its not going to happen because both sides are raising the stakes you know the latest reports are they are mean and mean. Army and i have to get the ganja which is the 2nd largest city in azerbaijan that just kind of raises the stakes dramatically in this situation so both sides have arguments in their favor and the russian interest is very simple just stop fighting and trying to resolve with by peaceful means because if there are if youre just of course a lot of them will go to russia. And and then the more i think. A few due to this conflict because if we go back to history you know both sides will find those arguments in their favor. But you arent absolutely right that its an era for russia i think its not just an irritant its a very bad situation of all of the International Community and the west is also in a precarious situation here because initially in the late eightys the russians liberals. And the west basically supported and armenian site but either by john joint who are you know this anti Russian Coalition or for soviet states the exit use in the west suddenly changed and there was more and more sympathy for example i just so basically i think. There is only one solution is just to stop fighting and restart the formula experience in return for security because you know what destructor weapons its very interesting is that in the in the late eightys and early ninetys. Around could have played a very important mediating role but that they were shut out by the west again and again a regional player a very important and powerful one was shut out of a process that could have. Had a Peace Process internationalize instead of having someone like everyone trying to flare up the conflict. Will quickly all end on this point george are. I think well know its all over when erda one is going to sochi. And it could well be. But i think at some point russia would have to intervene in a more decisive fashion russian novel to be marginalized. So if one is able to hail this as a great victory. You know russia is the great power in the region russia mediate the end of the previous gauntlet it can also work to weaken in effect that on the note there were going to go to a short break in after a short break well continue our discussion on some real news state with our. Nuclear become a battleground in the u. S. People of demanding the shut down of a local plant some yankee is right now my focus because its a very dangerous oh no care power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limit this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on wheres the power in this country wheres it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy is power line with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in the very real. Struggle. I dont know about that. Because i want to make out what why it was you know. How lucky. We hope to be but there are some friends of the us are still so but theyre still hoping to do something this is. The charge. They have about as an example thats also going to put them on them that you know were going to. Welcome back to cross where all things are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing some real news. Ok lets go to lets switch gears a little bit here i came across an absolutely fascinating article in the american conservative by a writer Helen Andrews and her article is a 2020 is tumbling towards 1017 some title we think were safe from revolution were wrong its already in the works what do you think about the comparison of whats happening in the us politically in this very formal she was year. And reflection of what happened historically in 1700. 00 in the russian empire that would soon come to an end. Well its rare that you read such things in their mexican media because and then tomorrow for their ultra liberal stew compare more than the United States to the soviet union you know the the poor all comparisons to will start in years more to leninism but in fact for me. My historical knowledge of russia and their due to their servatius that they may obey American Public and hes got wife right now the perilous up all of us you know theyre not just the best asked for a king you know i think that the reason for the paradox is that wed have basically 2 to tell if theyre doing his most here which have a lot of things in common you know trump is unable to discern this certainly tearing it from you know the 3rd after nazis and corman years which is now basically ruined the hated steitz you know instead of he and elected president this is that i do always your how to liberalism theres root in the United States and trunk anoxic united so he just traces it back to you know solve it by all should be examined and the marxist. Well there are parallels but these are different and youre just paradox are you ready because you know the technology is seen you find a Certain Group of individuals a social group you declare them to have been oppressed historically no you claim to have the right to represent these formally oppressed minority and to act on their behalf indicator brushing it right even though theyre going to read between the lines there so theres also makes their little black lives matter going to historical and the whole is absolute and its not just had an editor of the do it engine for this but also. Peter suffered nick in the tablet which is an american magazine on religious affairs here published fascinating article called. Walk america is a russian novel published it in july and let me just quote it you know he talks about you have given your bizarre effect character or turn again of snow will return in the mid 19th century but not a few bolshevik so to speak a nihilist you know this is when the war nihilist became popular in russia and later on of the whole world so let me just called Peter Sullivan one wonders even buzz out of is there different from todays protest and state you populace the twinkie some thinks sowing discord in our news rooms the castle culture its the global hawk the social part who police our social media feeds well this is exactly true because you know the problem with bolshevism is that its less of an ideology its less the communism its. Its acknowledge of coming to power. You shut down all your corner you declare everyone who disagrees an enemy you declare everyone who disagrees and reactionary and story just just see how it walked in the wall street drawn a poor example where you have the opinion page fighting in the news room you know that being in page are all just a little gross theyre like the constitutional democrats who put all of those are in february 1700 the hope to create a new liberal russia and maybe they will work and then you would run while the bolsheviks you know who are actually there already is fade lining all the other elemental can be built in their ways in the same way bolsheviks sidelined constitutional democrats in russia imagine the reason why this can happen on george respond. Because theres a crisis of legitimacy ok thats this that is the ultimate parallel its the bolsheviks in 1917 or of france in 1789. 00 i mean its always about that a lot of legitimacy and you have people within the power structures that are fueling on this illegitimacy ok they are actually destroying the system then sell its and this is not a bottom up thing thats a top down thing again jurors know this right so a mentioned to gain of fathers and sons i would cite in other great russian novel which is perhaps even more apt which is does they have is the process because they have it was condense that the nihilist or you know some of them on the island some of them were kind of extreme socialist were really are the product of the liberals of the earlier generation the liberals of the earlier generation that encourage this nihilism of this destructiveness and they had lost the radical movement but what was readiest spawning about that novel is the complete collapse of the order of the old all of the just collapse like a house of cards and so you know just as you wrote this almost 40 years before 917 and before that postal exactly what happened the entire russian governmental structure what it had been there for hundreds of years collapse like a house of cards and thats really whats and thats what there was a kind of a rock from within and thats what you see in the United States because you see where strums real problem is within the intelligence military security establishment they are openly defying the elected president theyre openly speaking of them does it with disdain as if he had no legitimacy they they criticize he is his moves when he went to that church and yet square you know has the military chiefs criticizing and trump really didnt have the strength. Doesnt have the political strength to fire all these people and which therefore sure you know this election turned out to be the chaos and that it looks like its going to be then we should expect some sort of an insurrection within the government and trump made might be able to do very much about it you know in the in the know the people on the political left in the United States are indeed are are just. Absurdly historical in their thinking they think it cant happen to us we can control this we know how to manage it know that that theyre missing history here theyre not theyre not students of history once you start stuff like this its almost impossible to control it and they end up being the victims of it a bench a leap ok this is not this theyre playing with fire here just because they hate the man in the oval office here the implications of which are are are enormous you cant control this kind of thing go ahead. You are absolutely right and the problem is that you know what we should be exposed to one and russia and them the you with bolshevism their Foreign Policy in the United States its vice versa you know there are 2 liberals 1st used to call given a speech and of political leaders outside the United States they used it in serbia they used it against ukraine they used it against russia and now theyre using it against their own president so that they can or would you of come into power or the new bolsheviks or liberals as they hold them its very simple the persona you fight evil you know they dont talk about historical process they dont talk about according to history just there is an evil man you know running this country and life will be beautiful you know ok they remove gadhafi and what they would have there would have a civil war its a much more complicated society than just you know one evil man controlling everything and i agree completely with george you know in. Process by just asking please note that. Im a negative character that evolutionary. Hes father is an old style ribeiro you know and hes portrayed satirical in the beginning of the novel so basically he does that yes he predicted that the future bolsheviks will come from westernized girls they will stem from them you know he also george you know if you look like you know we all know the techniques that the bolsheviks used to come to power and they understood how power work i give them that the rest of it the ideology you know but they understood that but if you were if youre a student of history and youre a student of the bolsheviks it makes me think of steven cohen who just recently passed away wrote the seminal book i think on the bolsheviks and that was on who caught it and what happened to him he was a victim of a huge purge committed in 1937 and the same kind of courage will come to these people ok because they let this this very toxic i call that ideological possession theyre possessed people this is this is beyond reason you know it will come for them eventually history proves it over and over again go ahead george because were rapidly because i think thats exactly right and thats what happens when you Start Playing this very dangerous game people who should know better. Think that oh well you know this will get us the power once we are in power then we can just call this a cold war these mad dogs and well be nice and say no it doesnt really work that way you know as the as the old bolsheviks found yeah i think got rid of all of the enemies the cool actually. Are is bureaucracy its either you know the entire sotiris establishment they would be safe no it came up to them and it was the old bolsheviks who were swept aside. So you know that thats exactly what what will happen here and what is its already this very very narrow goal of seizing power they you know they they seize power of that they believe that it is their legitimate their right or this overthrow and there would be there and it never works that way you know again the main one of the interesting thing for me i mean when we talk a lot about ideology or nights youre the best but you know it particularly in the in the west in general but particularly in the United States theres a huge economic turndown this is on to this because you have these elements that use this ideology for political reasons but the inadvertently or slaney the economic in financial discontent people say youre going to get this this mixture of this this is going to be a very interesting a brew hear it because people are going to countries poorer nobody wants to admit it in media your country is poor and now we humbly lot like matter we have this intentional read legitimizing. Tradition law rule of law and thats why i wanted to talk about this article last 15 seconds going to you yeah well im going to commute and iconoclasm here you know we will be dismissed by liberal media for comparing this play to states now to russia 1007 can just one more for you guys to get angry chest off me a lot you know all by that youre also a poorly ish historian and writer here old why bolsheviks also in poland to. Be feel the you know what b. L. I am a davos im doing im doing a speech theyre creating the void a destroyer legion thing youre lucky with theres a whole lot more to talk about on another episode of cross and i want to thank my guest in moscow and put it doesnt want to make our viewers watching us here on c c n x time remember across them yes. Its wrong because as american citizen native plants are 5. To 10 miles we are asked to back and i think. I would vote for a republican over trump i would vote for anyone who is not you and has half a brain. Dump truck. To feel. Like a wife. She can handle. She and i divorce because our trouble is elected president and i floated for her and she cant stand for. That when the most important election. In our history list of the months to go before the next president ial election is the atmosphere in the us now. One of the highest Priority Programs how will they vote which they do next. Just some of the questions we put to the american. As the u. S. Economy was booming growing numbers of people were made homeless. You can work 40 hours d in a week and still not have enough to get housing everybody believes america still is the land of opportunity the reality of it is were not financially equality and the lack of Affordable Housing for a living minimum wage gave many people no choice. Just been a problem with the city knows turn to make sure and told me stay away i dont miss. The food or the for is no answer because the requires resources the most vulnerable are abandoned on the streets to become the invisible comes. The headlines in our media does it. All out war conflict in a corner back to 2nd place. Reports from the disputed territory. Scenes like this one called one here in about one in fact this tiny village alone was said by 6 massive is one of them this is all the devastation but it has left. Also to come tensions boil over in israel as antigovernment demonstrators define you be for strict sions banning mask other rings and i made a major spike in deadly infection