Was within the soviet union and its quite another thing to be part of us that by john which is now an independent state. I mean really going on since since the breakup of the and so the soviet union one of the things that makes it different than what we saw from the original conflict out of the end of the soviet union was in the late eightys early ninetys i want to be unimpressed to see you and this case both countries are relatively well armed now. Even though azerbaijan has significantly more well because of oil and russia is supplies the arms to both countries more or less here but the difference in this case this time around is its becoming much more internationalized turkey is playing a major role here and a lot of people are very critical of turkeys role here israel is involved. Others want to pull in iran this is the internationalization of it if it were to internationalize it would be a repeat was seen a number of times this is what makes it different this time. Well youre absolutely right i think. A lot of Congress Just behaving irresponsibly intuition to this conflict. I would just suggest you compare the statements of president and the statements of the graben logan just opened the service i called who support everything in azerbaijan thinks it makes sense to do it for its security i mean what kind of gasoline to do it is that so there is certainly irresponsible on the side of turkey. Why did it become possible turkey has not behaved so responsibly in during the last conflict and in 1940 basically with the big 3 or one media well i think the reason is basically what happened in the last i would say 1015 years just let me remind you when turkey syria in 2000 you havent 1012 all been everyone reported the western press reports of the turkey supported you know the terrorist groups that entered syria from the north it was not a secret nato was on the side of turkey let me remind you of that when syria downed turkish fighter planes always in their tree in the beginning of the war quite legally because the turkish fighter plane was on the syrian the syrian air space nato even had a crisis meeting they were deciding what to do in order to support to make it. I dont you could just a few years later in 2000 i guess 19. When turkey moved against the american al ice in the north of syria against the kurds that nato was completely different they started talking about ever gone trespassing the borders up sovereign state of syria which they didnt care about just a few years ago right so it was a complete change. Unfortunately after gone kind of you know that you know it so if you do its being said that the west does not object to you or you are free to act as you want as you want basically in this situation he decided that it was just the bow tie him to to give support to azerbaijan that reached your everybody jump back to it then one of the things that we discussed all 3 of us to discuss previously is that why disturb he do it is because they can do it here and thats that thats a very dangerous form almost the ok because youre not thinking about the consequences of it georgia are there are media reports that. Through turkish channels that you have fighters from syria and libya and the in the caliber of that these are militants this one description or another theyre being transported into this conflict into the box that is a very dangerous and considering what demon just said about the reaction to turkey we have the french president speaking very very clearly that this is a very Dangerous Development according to reports george yes the reports certainly credible and i dont know what extent theyve been confirmed but they are those are widely. Accessible reports and its certainly consistent with Everything Else that no one has done i mean a great remember initially there were these jihadi terrorists who were transferred from libya to syria in immediate aftermath of the overthrow of get up here and then recently france. These from syria to libya so that we would be perfectly plausible. To one now be transferring jihadi fighters from syria as they are by just. It as you say why is there no one doing this yet because he can he figures that if he creates enough trouble than he lifts heavy defeats on the armenians then you know russia and the rest of the Minutes Group will have to accept realities on the ground. You know the armenians will have to give up some territory within hours or by johnson to the charity of my going to be reduced and then everyone will hail this is a great victory and in others my aunt was Foreign Policy but also that we signaled a defeat for russian or im at home with me now how do you know that they want you to gambling on is you know i mean people have talked about near to all of this neo ottoman is a 1000000 things like that i mean theres a literature on it and maybe says the pipe dream too but one thing is undeniable in all of this this is a major irritant for russia because russia trades with boobies going i mean even to the point with a kind of military hardware with planes for example both governments need permission from russia to actually use them in military at sea i mean this is a real annoyance for the kremlin here and maybe thats the whole point go ahead. Oh well i would say that both sides of course powerful arguments used their favor by john has some arguments too because well they let us you know lets be clear in the can look at about a bishop under International Law is part of. When the war ended up in 1904 as i said it was armenia speak to me and most of their refugees from up north in karbala where ethnic kurds are by john yes not only and i want to cut off any and control but also someone some. Districts or over by jump rope are an armenian control so i think what we should all pray for is there bob who just wants to get back to these areas which are not populated always by anyone right now that would be i think the best outcome because it would be in the form of your security in return for terrorist in action but unfortunately there is a high risk its not going to happen because both sides are raising the stakes in all the way to st pauls other armenian missiles some army and i have targeted ganja which is the 2nd largest city in a standby that just kind of raises the stakes dramatically in this situation so both sides have arguments in their favor and the russian educate is very simple just stop fighting and trying to resolve with by peaceful means because if there are if you just of course a lot of them will go to russia. And and then the more i think regional entity to this conflict because if we go back to history you know both sides will find dozens of arguments in their favor. But you arent absolutely right that its an irritant or a stray think its not just an irritant its a very bad situation of all of the International Community and the west is also in a precarious situation here because initially in the late eightys the russians liberals. And the west basically supported and armenian site but other by john joint who are you know this anti Russian Coalition or for soviet states the exit use in the west suddenly changed and there was more and more sympathy for a year by job so basically. I think. Theres only one solution is just to stop fighting and for me what that interests in return for security because you know whats right stop destructor weapons and its very interesting is that in the in the late eightys and early ninetys. Iran could have played a very important mediating role but that they were shut out by the west and again a regional player a very important and powerful one was shut out of the process that couldve been how the Peace Process internationalize instead of having someone like the one trying to flare up the conflict. Will end on this point georgia i think well know whats all over when everyone is summoned to sochi. It could well be. But i think at some point russia would have to intervene in a more decisive fashion russian novel to be marginalized in this process so if one is able to hail this as a great victory. You know russia is the great power in the region russia mediate the end of the previous conflict it can also work to weaken it ok that on the note there were going to go to a short break and after a short break well continue our discussion of some real new state with our team. There and said it said that he didnt want to talk. About an attack on the end of the stick. And. I would vote for the republicans who are trying i would vote for anyone who is not equal and has half a brain just. Dumptruck. The future yeah. Yeah my 2nd wife. She can handle it. She and i divorce because our trouble is elected president and i floated for him and she couldnt stand for. That when the most important election. In our history list of the months to go before the next president ial election is the atmosphere in the us now. Is one of the highest priority problems only they vote which they do next. Just some of the questions we put to the americans. The world is driven by shaped by one person. Thinks. We dare to ask. Those silly law about the get a list of all the ill just. Pick up one look at what why did why the fuck. Out of the. Clearly hopeful view but there are also friends that the us are still at the still hoping to do something this year. How did that as a political rally going to be more simple with someone that you know were going. To. Welcome back to cross where all things are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing some real news. Ok lets go to deal or lets switch gears a little bit here i came across an absolutely fascinating article in the american conservative by a writer Helen Andrews and her article is a 2020 is tumbling towards 9 117. 00 some title we think were safe from revolution were wrong its already in the works what do you think about the comparison of whats happening in the us politically in this very small she was year and reflection about what happened historically in 1970 and in the russian empire that would soon come to an end. Well its rare that you read sides being seen in the American Media because its and then for their American Ultra liberal to compare more than the United States to the soviet union you know the the poor comparisons to all spout in years more but in fact for me you know due to my historical knowledge of russia due to their summations that i made the American Public a wife right now the player. Most of all do you know theyre not just focused estranging you know i think that the reason for the paradox is that we have basically 2 to 10 if theyre doing his most here which have a lot of things in common you know trump is unable to discern this territory is you know the 3rd after nazis and communism which is now basically ruled indicated the you know instead of he and elected president this is that i do always your how to liberalism theres rule in the United States and trunk anoxic united so he just traces back to. Soviet ball should be examined and the marxist. Well there are parallels but these are different and youre just paradox in ridiculous you know the technology is seen you find a Certain Group of individuals a social group you declare them to have been oppressed historically no you claim to have the right to represent these formally oppressed minority and to act on their behalf indicator prerace 21. 00 there are going to read between the lines there so theres also makes there look like life matter going to historical and the whole is absolute and its not just had a nebulous the do it engine for this but also peter suffered here in the tablet which is an american magazine on religious affairs here august fascinating article called. Walk america is a russian novel published it in july and let me just quote it you know he talks about you have given your bizarre effect character or turn again of snow will return in the mid 19th century but not a few bullshit extol to speak a nihilist you know this is when the war nile is became popular in russia and later on the whole world so let me just call. What i want us to even buzz out of is that different from todays protest instead you paul plus the twain just somethings sowing discord you know news rooms cancel culture us that to provoke the sociopaths who police our social media feeds well this is exactly true because you know the problem with bolshevism is that its more its less own ideology its less the communism its a. Its a can or would you of come into power. Shot your shutdown all of your points where everyone who disagrees an enemy your degree everyone who disagrees reactionary and story just see it walked in the wall street journal for example where you have that opinion beach fighting in the news room you know that being in beijing all today would be gross theyre like the constitutional democrats who pulled the czar in february 1000 so when the call to create a new liberal russia and mean if you will and then you throw out the bolsheviks you know what was actually us there already sidelining all the american liberals in their ways in the same way bolshevik sidelined constitutional democrats in russia and you know the reason why this can happen on george the reason why this is going up because theres a crisis of legitimacy ok thats this that is the ultimate parallel its the bolsheviks in 1917 or france in 87 189. 00 i mean its always about the lack of legitimacy and you have people within the power structures that are fueling on this illegitimacy ok theres actually destroying the system then so its a this is not a bottom up thing thats a top down thing again jurors know this right so a demon mentioned. Fathers and sons i would cite in other great russian novel which is perhaps even. Which is does they have is the possess because they have it was condensed that denials or you know some of them were 9 and some of them were kind of extreme socialist were really of the product of the liberals of the earlier generation the liberals of the older generation that encourage this nihilism this destructiveness and they had lost the radical movement but what was readiest spawning about that novel is the complete collapse of the order of the old all of the just collapse like a house of cards and so you know just as you wrote this almost 40 years before 917 and before the postal exactly what happened the entire russian governmental structure what it had been there for hundreds of years collapse like a house of cards and thats really whats and thats what there was a kind of a rock from within and thats what you see in the United States because you see this wish trumps real problem is within the intelligence military security establishment they are openly defying the elected president theyre openly speaking of him does it with disdain as if he had no legitimacy they they criticise hes his moves when he went to that church and yet square you know has the military chiefs criticizing and trump really didnt have the strength you know have doesnt have the political strength to fire all these people and which to and therefore sure you know this election turn out to be the chaos and the that it looks like its going to be then we should expect some sort of an insurrection within the government and trump made might be able to do very much about it you know in the in the know the people on the political left in the United States are are are just. Absurdly historical in their thinking they think it cant happen to us we can control this we know how to manage it know that that it theyre missing history here theyre good theyre not theyre. But students of history once you start stuff like this its almost impossible to control it and they end up being the victims of it eventually ok this is not this is playing with fire here just because they hate the man in the oval office here the implications of which are are are enormous you cant control this kind of thing go ahead. You are absolutely right and the problem is that you know what you should expose us to want and russia and them the us bolshevism their Foreign Policy in the United States its vice versa you know that ultra liberals 1st used to call demonize the chin of political leaders outside their innate states they used it in serbia they used it against ukraine they used it against russia and now theyre using it against their old president so that the norwegian of coming to power of the new bolsheviks of liberals as they hold them is very simple the persona you fight evil you know they dont talk about historical process they dont talk about according to history just there is an evil man you know running this country and life will be beautiful you know ok they removed and what do we have that will have a civil war its a much more complicated society than just you know one evil man controlling everything and i agree completely with george you know in the process by just ask you please know that. Im a negative character that evolutionary. Hes father is an all stay liberal you know and hes portrayed satirically in the beginning of the novel so basically he does that yes he predicted that the future bolsheviks will come from westernized liberals they will stem from them you know he also george you know if you look what you know we all know the techniques that the bolsheviks used to come to power and they understood how collar work i give them not the rest of it the ideology. No but they understood that but if you were if youre a student of history and youre a student of the bolsheviks it makes me think of Stephen Cohen who just recently passed away wrote the seminal book i think on the bolsheviks and that was on who caught it and what happened to him it was a big im a huge purge that culminated in 1037 and the same kind of courage will come to these people ok because they let this this very toxic i call that ideological possession their possessed people this is this is beyond reason you know it will come for them eventually history proves it over and over again go ahead george has a wrap yes i think thats exactly right and thats what happens when you Start Playing this very dangerous game people who should know better. Think that oh well you know this will get us the power once we are in power then we can just call this a cold war these mad dogs and well be nice and say no it doesnt really work that way you know as the as the old bolsheviks found yeah i think got rid of all of the enemies the cool actually. Are is bureaucracy its either you know the entire sotiris establishment they would be safe no it came up to them and it was the old bolsheviks who was swept aside so yeah thats exactly what what will happen here and what is its already this very very narrow goal of seizing power they you know they seize power that is they believe that it is their legitimate they right or this power over throat and there will be there and it never works that way you know being the main one of the interesting thing for me i mean what we talk a lot about i mean holds your nights and youre the best but you know it particularly in the in the west in general but particularly in the United States theres a huge economic turndown this is an ad. To this because you have these elements that use this ideology for political reasons when they inadvertently or are slaney the economic in financial discontent people say youre going to get this this mixture of this this is going to be a very interesting a brew hear it because people are going to countries who are really nobody wants to admit it in media out your country is poor and now we like matter we have this intentional read legitimizing. Tradition law rule of law and thats why i wanted to talk about this article last 15 seconds but. Yeah well im going to commute iconoclasm here you know we will be dismissed by liberal media for comparing this name to states now to russia 1970 and just one more for you guys to get angry chest you know all by the liberal supporters issue historian and writer your old why bolsheviks also in poland. The feel the void you know what b. L. Am a davos im doing im doing a speech theyre creating the void the a destroyer legion thing. With theres a whole lot more to talk about on another episode of cross and i want to thank my guests in moscow and budapest and want to thank our viewers for watching us here at you see you next time remember. Join me every 1st on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to guests of the world of politics sports business im showbusiness ill see if it. Was a pundit make no certain you know blood is just a lot into nationalities. We dont come with the we dont. Beat. People. Commentary says. We can do better we should know. Everyone is contributing way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges create the response has been so many good people are helping us. It makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. As the u. S. Economy was booming growing numbers of people were made homeless. You can work 40 hours in a week and still not have enough to get housing everybody believes america still has the lead up to the reality of it is that were not financially equality and the lack of Affordable Housing for a living minimum wage gave many people no choice you know theres been a problem with the city knows turn the temperature in told me stay away oh miss. Consider that there is no answer because you have some recourse resource the most vulnerable in abandoned on the streets to become invisible clerks. Become a battleground in the Us Government people are demanding the shut down of a local plant from my yankee is right now my focus because its a very dangerous prayer power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limit this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on wheres the power in this country wheres it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy is or power lie with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in the very real ways our struggle on r. T. The top stories in our t. V. Edging towards a full blown war the conflict between armenia and azerbaijan i cut it back and it has its 2nd wake our correspondent reports from the disputed territory. Things like this one are common here in madrid and i care about in fact this tiny village alone was battered by 6 massive is one of them landed and this is all the devastation that it has left. Ah clashes between antigovernment demonstrators and police in television over the weekend dozens of arrests