Transcripts For RT Worlds Apart 20240712

A very routine and and very common way off pretty decent Television News not only in russian but i think pretty much everywhere how common if dream interviewing of this sort at in the industry isnt interesting and if youre asking to t. V. Stations in the west do they have a line and other interested in people with a period and then thats absolutely true and the obvious example is is fox news which absolutely has an agenda and is biased but you know im an old school journalist in so much as supposed to be about objective it see and you read shots people who know what theyre talking about and if they dont agree with you then you know the least you can do is debate and the prescreening of and says in my mind its not its not on i mean in so much is if you want to discuss a tricky issue like this and it is a valid questions why if. She is and so. You are someone like me and im going to say no you can put somebody else on whos going to say yes and then youve got its bait that they would have to make up their own much more well lets start going down there is where i get this tendency of thinking whether the millionaire kisses nose to david at this point i find it ironic that both the russian and the west commentators sought to present it as sad as is my dumb moment with all the theories and host a bad hashtag but youve been arguing that that being answered alrosa arent nothing like weve seen before what can make them stand out for you. Its in many ways a unique revolution the tendency to think its in my down because again as the people on the street mass demonstrations it looks very similar superficially is obvious and the western coverage International Coverage i mean obviously the edits is going to reach for those kinds of parallels because the amount of Information Knowledge that you can assume in your readers is actually quite limited particularly when covering the sneer of it at night that well its not in the news every day and so the view is in the u. K. Or the u. S. Would recognize this oh its another Color Revolution in europe the masses of people on the street and so theres a natural tendency to frame the story in terms that your readers recognize but what were trying to be in is through the monument story and surveillance of it and again the informed as watching this its very different or have that one of the big chains that one the biggest difference is ukraine is a very divided country between the rest of us in the east and the nationalists in the west and in belarus it seems to be a universal across the society as well i mean from the middle since actuals immense through to the factories of university rejects its shank and the p. Fulness of the process the votes just as the organizers took them off sky air and several made it absolutely clear they want to have a peaceful process and also the lack of geopolitics if you remember john mccain the u. S. Senate was on my done making speeches about freedom we are with the people which was to say that we reject the democrats he elected president going to go there so that everyone hates him and he was a terrible president. And appeal to the crowds there where is the protest is in better russia have made it clear that this is not you this fight while i dream of you that probably hasnt grassroots promise in our largely void of geopolitics im not sure they can. They really come across this way and they can stay this way because theyre clearly a lot of adjure is quite trying to use those products to advise their to political interests on and off because the problem is better answer is getting dragged in slowly sue the chip lets all stand off between russia and the west i mean kind of status just been in brussels you just met with my crohns shes just about to meet with metal and my problem is you know they they have agendas too that they have problems with russia but you know we should highlight methyl was come in saying i think just this morning and she was saying that we stand with this other. With the people and at the same time we believe look the same because knowledge is present president but at the same time we do know want to get involved as you know block politically in this fight. The 1st english language address to the e. U. Said we want your son to die at sea but please respect the sufferance see it better russia in other words this is a fight between the people and there is and then this is a tricky question because when an apple when you recognize be it tainted nature or even try to project land the nature of the boat. You know any possibility to miss you know the incumbent the less. In this case its one thing but when youre all annoying to see certain status and legitimacy to his competitor without actually having an accurate tally of the vote its Something Else entirely and this is a disputed question i mean and you probably saw i had a long argument and so its it was at its exactly this point. Say the beginning that we dont know what the actual result is however there is some evidence in so much as there were 20 rebel owning stations that released what they claim is the real results and those shows that. Won by an overwhelming majority. We did that could be that could serve as a proof that the day they did vote or the elections were a free and fair but you cant take that as a measure or as a pro of you know another person and as it is my my problem is that at its core its ultimately sasson teaching internal election german legitimacy with. An outside recognition and its at its core you tell to me deciding for the people thats exactly what the question is doing here is deciding for the people isnt the e. U. With as much criticism of him as it provides isnt actually doing the same just siding for the dollar russian people that the issue here is to what extent are we comfort and that he lost he claims he won 80 percent of the official result was 81 so he has not behaved as a president who won 80 percent of the. No gration the rebel polling stations we have numbers and those numbers in order those stations so a landslide they say and also there was this just a study on that based on the official results. Says 70 percent and finally when the progovernment demonstrations have been organized no one sends up if he just met me and really thats a candidate for the demonstration track into the question of whether were looking. It is legitimate im not im not having that argument i think there are lots of additives that these these elections werent free and fair and that hes legitimacy as a leader is that very very questionable my question is if a friend again should meet a c. M. That to her nasca that is a legitimate representative of the belarusian people that she had this davis jr call shape lets say 8 package as she did on behalf of the belorussian people and the reason im asking these is not because im trying to put you know a look of shock and the e. U. On this x. A moral footing because the claims that it is it used to procedure and and in this particular example it is not it is made to be serving assumptions that the problem isnt just mysie as president you know they live in as a say a going up president is that the sensor election committee. That so theres no possibility of a recount and theres no possibility to check which means that has to be another election if we question that this is this is something to beat you may well cross for but its not doing that it is saying that we recognize directly or indirectly by accepting it and ask at that behind us level in brussels that she is the leader and that is your reading into it that the only people who actually recognized. What they said and they feel its in his calf and about this they have not recognized that dissent is the just missy the only the latvians have said that shes actually president and then with all due respect i mean they can be and we can become very legalistic here and both look at shankar and that the russian government has a long tradition of being legalistic that if you accept somebody of the highest level and enough to has been accepted by but it has of all european institutions hes negotiating a package for democratic reforms you know theres been that annoyed her with the status even without you know putting a formal press release as. And i mean its also about symbols is it not yeah but you know i mean negotiating is a loaded term i mean shes gone suppressors and shes talking to them by except to ask who exactly as who and that i mean as the a member of the coordination house which is a self appointed buddy in order to negotiate but you know in that sense we see she normally won the elections or at least the likes of falsified im not sure but then they set up as a party to have a negotiation and then its looking about a Transitional Government and a new election so this is being the position council and in that as the semi official head of the Opposition Movement is why shes being received in brussels but i wouldnt say shes negotiating in so much as there is no legal force to any of these scuffs its having to let your risk out autocrats and being imposed champions over democracy abroad ought all to play into each others hands because they provide for these and national and all geopolitics and grassroots democratic initiatives because look at you can now go and say yes see they recognize her without even counting their ballots and you know that and they days out to get me you will be 1st army ultimately reinforcing each of the narratives and. You know making it so much difficulty much more difficult will all actors from Grassroots Movement to craft for Democratic Change without being accused or without being branded as a for an actor and i agree like i said in the beginning it is comments that you know is getting dragged into this to political game and at the same time sick enough. Said in her comments that she has been a bit more demanding of the in so much is that she thinks more pressure needs to be put on and so she is acting more president ial by taking that like shes made that decision on their own and shes shes not like its anything at this point then. She she remains face and europe remains convinced that not only are the elections totally illegitimate she probably won the gold down the line everybody is saying that no ones going to make the president. There has to be new elections and with those ballots there has to be because you need a definitive number on how many votes she wants and that simply is not available yet we have to take a very short break now we will be back in just a few moments. So what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have its crazy confrontation let it be an arms race. Spearing Dramatic Development the only really im going to resist i dont see how that strategy will be successful very chaotic it was time to sit down and talk. As the u. S. Economy was booming growing numbers of people were made homeless. You can work 40 hours in a week and still not have enough to get housing everybody believes america still is the land of opportunity the reality of it is were not financially equality and a neck and Affordable Housing for a living minimum wage give many people no choice you know thats been a problem with the city knows turn to make sure and told me stay away i dont miss. The food if there is no answer because you have some recourse resource the most vulnerable or abandoned on the streets to become the invisible. The world is driven by dreamers shaped by one person of those great. Dares thinks. We dare to ask. Well the naturals of private Bank Terrorists and change their phobia and i am telling used up when i want to charge on to another news bomb to get us on in september and i am talking about the allied to poisoning all that russian opposition politician alex a number we not only triggered all the mail year and narratives in both russia and the west but i think it actually made us seriously undermine out war changed the post cold war relationship between russia and germany there is now a real prospect of a hole in the construction of the north stream pipeline ad if that happens if that comes to pass i am absolutely sure that the russian or russian german relationship will qualitatively change now that you are a long time russia watcher when you are presented to be bemused like that at so many and complications and the underground currents how do you how do you go about making sense. Be any sense focus on the business the economics and its a nice frame of reference because you know. Follow the money thing if you say the issue is not stream theres a lot of lets. And people said repeatedly that the u. S. Is looking you know now theyre producing gas in excess and they want to export their energy clearly the commercial aspects of the story play in this story and the issue with no stream is. Basically that it cuts ukraine out of the transit routes from russia and western europe feel like russias been bullying ukraine but if you look at the economics i mean that talking about Energy Security however. In the seventys eightys russia was responsible for 70 or 0. 80 europes gas thats foreign in the meantime to about 3540 percent so europe is already diversified away from russian gas and that having this new pipeline the most stream to. Russia will to live in exactly the same amount of gas as its now so theres no increase in dependency on russia the problem is the and he Security Issues because when they went through the pipeline to ukraine because of the terrible relationships between russia and ukraine and because of ukraine being effectively bankrupt it couldnt pay its gas and gas from turned off in 2006 and people are taking this as a Political Action whereas it was actually an economic one and germany the reason why they key in on this pipeline its actually increases their Energy Security because it goes directly from what it is it is actually clear that they are so keen on these pipelines anymore because in marco hit herself as that quote and the length it sounds and i didnt expect that there is such a as sure going to be. Allowed to poisoning or somebody like that ali and the set huge implications huge an economic terms. What does it tell you that was dramatic i mean medical suggested she didnt say explicitly shes jested. That no strain to pipeline may not be complete because of. His asking for the kremlin you know to be accountable of the self accounts its what actually happened which is news and i see said i mean this whole affair open about his poisoning good mom. Dramatic change in attitudes because matt the man who doesnt have a very good working relationship i mean they both have to deal with the geopolitics but all such i mean is a major investor russia has literally 10 times more Companies Working in russia than any other european has more than all the others put together. And if that relationship changes if. Its like now were going to do it here as an e. U. Entity rather than german russian and say thats amazed change and thats a major blow to russia i think they not only wheezing stories a very particular kind of story because it falls into a very special category for me that characterized by 2 features why that is extreme visibility everybody has heard about it and the 2nd one is very little no ability there are very very few established facts and the most Critical Data this case now all these test results im being held by germany the test results and the formula of the allowed to poison them being held by germany even though one would think that one of the most revealing things would be to compare the test results that not only had in russia and windows test results and when that were produced when he lets us know entirely true why didnt i think what could possibly hold germany back i checked into this that the issue here is now which is actually a military. Nerve agent chemical when the response of authority is. The International Organization chemical weapons and that what happens this is not known it becomes a by last way shoot that everything has to go through the o. P. C. And that germany has submitted that information and messer is a member of that organization and is entitle to access its through the o. P. C. W. So as far as the protocol is consent germany and russia have nothing to do with this now but only c w as are very controversial are going to say shit because immediately you know what getting vote here is the. Recall squeeze anything and the old be a legend as stories of using chemical weapons in syria and that you know better than i do that then number of western scientists who work with the older c. W. And who are on record to die means on record complaining about the pressure put on them by western security agencies to provide the result favorable to that conclusion so you dont trust based on the overriding you dont fret trust the russian process how inclined he tries the o. P. C. W. Protest and given the history of that are going to say shit and then roll it has been playing in peace joy political games between russia and the west i grant you that if you see somebody is going to spout his history and has had problems in the past and that undermines its just missin his authority. Nevertheless everyone signed up to this chemical weapons treaty its the one thats in force and is the one that has to be for that and its a good situation and then you can ask questions as to you know whether theyre playing again super scoopers. Im done and if im putting on its suit school that you know im aware of the reports that its actually full and that in the past and that raises a question ive written that one that isnt that you literalistic a position for germany to take in duty if you are so concerned about human rights about the yeah you know youd be use of chemical weapons out on the character of europe about their russias track record of dealing with opposition figure is it something about germany i mean germanys nothing but bureaucratic i mean theyre. Very elastic and theyre doing this by the book which is released it says the o. P. C. 72 and then the protocol say that it has to be checked independently by 2 other people which was france and sweden. They present know each other thats me i would agree i say why not share the dates directly with russia because it would be just a right not to Say Something joint investigation and then you can have russian and german investigators on both sides. Yes and that would mean you must be kind of the red tape and increase the transparency of the time i see a 100 percent with you on that i think because we want to mitigate this like you said this i mean the consequences of this could be significant and of thanks very much to him in russian relations so you dont want that nobody wants that and by sticking to the parts of the book you know i see increased tensions and it is to my mind im not really clear why they are sharing it but nevertheless the protocols are very clear in the o. P. C. Germany is doing exactly what its supposed to ok lets move to the very serious have all be of the month that i want to ask you about and its the only thing they renewed poor bit when i was there but john and i mean and i am absolutely am taken aback by by the coverage of what is going on because. I think this whole conflict shows the degree task nature off in full wars because i dont know if youve seen the other day but that leaf went on television accusing. The Prime Minister i mean you know being a puppet the sorest pushing out that actually used to leave all being a dictator assy any of that matters that he in the in the case of a territorial conflict that didnt show that. You know were all so taken aback by this narrative of you know democracy purses that talk receive sattar at that even when they have nothing to general parties immediately employ dance here or you know get somebody on their side and name calling between as it goes on and i mean i mean its been going on for decades the whole oh im not going to kind of back issue has been rankling since the fall of the soviet union and the propaganda. President s in both countries have been using it as a Political Tool to rally National Feelings and ensuring elections and what have you and its been festering we i was in i suppose on so its the Russian Agency and they were complaining that in be any we have the news of armenia next as about john and could we not move it to the magazine that was saints or did. This is insane but it just highlights me you know how the embassy the scene thats so when this fighting begins its natural that they start calling each other names its got very emotional very suddenly both calling each other when it means but using familiar themes to you or attract support today is sad and one of the one of the other things that struck me is how little coverage there is both in russia and europe about turkeys role in all of that because undoubtedly both brussels and the girl in moscow extremely concerned about the role turkey is playing essentially adding i sat by john on that im not making any secret of that secretary who came up pretty quickly. And it was everybody because turkey here has the rhetoric has changed that so hes always been a supporter as a potion and. Has and so he supports it in principle but not at a gun has come out hes basically saying theyre going to put supports admits a wrist. And then that raises also support him so hes a member of nato of course. And i mean use member the flexcar is your organization with russia so theres a possible scenario with sex and the russians so just stop fighting and like 5 maids. I mean these things that we floated none of that is actually very like this is what he said it has not likely but there are family day armenia officially accused turkey at all far shooting down its plane over its own territory now nobody took it seriously and that everybody is sort of treating it as a fake without admitting to it that none of the sites has also released and that none of the radar data that they are in possession and. I dont really sure that that Something Like this is like a serious peeing often a guy gassed in russias last military alliance is really all the cards biggest need seems like all being all the parties and trying all the warring parties ill try to draw as much support in as they can i mean i think the end of this is definitely going to be to politico i mean the thing with the collective security unite so that its again its a protect you from attack of turkish territory not military. Soldiers are killed in the only or anywhere else outside then the fight doesnt get treated so you know thats why those consensus less likely but as you say everybody is reaching for that you have political power as opposed on sticky and i mean its a russia and i think the resolution of this is this going to be a nasty would its going to go on for maybe months as john in an already rejects its. Almost as if its mediate because the fighting is too early on that people are now battling to see what territory they can get and i think when the fighting settles down and the lines are drawn and people realize that theyre not going to move forward or backwards then theyre going to send to the other players but he has serious interest in the region so does russia is actually friends with both john and i mean. They want to see a resolution to this but then theres a lot of. Political capital to be done in the gauche ation that follows between russia and even other places as well that its been a fascinating talking to you we have running out of time to have to put an end to it now but thank you very much for sharing a part of it and if mr president youll call what she has hope to hear again next week in our worlds apart. My newest sucking on the world social media lets just see what i dont see its a. Bit over there you know if. You want to know weve got to get it out. Because hes. Moving up you know and i see skits and i use that down sixtys to make it very very easy you know food to meet school on drugs used to people. Whove been forced to close because clubs do really hes trying to fit life in music that will suit guys because he makes me copy i love he dies because he meets me and copy playing fulton. And when you get to teach me and i say. Yeah doesnt because its back off my ass. Love to go on because. I doubt. A week of hostilities between armenia and azerbaijan brings devastation to no corner with relentless shelling of the local capital r. T. Reports from the area 2 massive explosions in the very center of the city 250 millimeter caliber so it is a massive rocket. The fighting spills beyond the disputed region as a border city and azerbaijan comes under artillery fire as well. Im not here to call out his life Everybody Knows hes a liar theres nothing smart about you joe what are you sure i dont reason excuse me who saw your number to. The 1st president ial debate before the u. S. Election descended into name calling and interruptions