Transcripts For RT Going Underground 20240712

An hours time stay with us as our international. Were going underground a decade to the month of the wiki leaks release of the iraq war logs detailing the extent of torture and abuse carried out by nato Coalition Soldiers in the illegal angloamerican war on iraq coming up in the show Award Winning journalist and filmmaker john pilger known for films like the war on democracy the dirty war in the n. H. S. And the coming war on china and exposing imperial war crimes from Southeast Asia to that in america and beyond on 4 weeks of a london old bailey hearing that Amnesty International claims could end Global Press Freedom and why nature nation media appear to have tried to cover. Well the simple coming up in this special episode of going underground with one of the worlds greatest journalists and filmmakers john pilger who has been present at the extradition trial of wiki leaks founder Julian Assange is that has been taking place at londons old bailey john thanks for coming back on before we get to the testimony before we get to the Amnesty International 40 n. G. O. S being barred the cia the bugging of lawyers as if no one knew anything about julian songe of wiki leaks they might have known about the collateral murder video and just seeing the soldiers the american soldiers killing journalists why is Julian Assange is the one who is at the old bailey being tried not all those people around the world that whose war crimes he exposed it where he leaks well who put a 1000000000 about china or russia or one of the official enemy is thats fine but this is about us. He gave us too much truth. He made those who committed these 4 crimes he forced them to look in the maira its them its you thats his unforgivable crime but you see we dont commit these crimes we dont shoot people. In iran and we dont govern them down on the law. We dont do all the things that the wiki leaks. The wiki leaks video has told us plus so much else our politicians and in the present circumstances its almost a mockery to say so politicians dont really law i mean our press tells us the truth al media by and large few things wrong with that but by law. Is a free media not of these things are true and the song has a son to represent. What i would say is too much truth. It is the most important political trial of this century certainly one of the most important of my lifetime and its been virtually blacked out. By most of the sort of coal misnamed Mainstream Media its no surprise to me. But when you sit in court and listen to some of the truly shocking at the twins indisputable evidence the just the day the what i would call the medical day describing what a songe was gone through with the evidence of professor Michael Kopelman and professor Kate Humphries both of them distinguish youre of psychiatrists talking about the way the single human being has been punished for telling this truth that if it goes hippies sent to the United States if hes extradited hell find a way to take his own life. I want to get to the psychiatric reports and in a 2nd because it goes the us prosecutor is present there at the old bailey trial because doubt on the on the. Prominent. Dallas out they call ive never hood in this modern age when finally were recognizing the blight of Mental Illness how it touches so many of us and especially during this. Coronavirus period. The prosecution q. C. Attempting to discredit professor kopelman said that the nz and describe Mental Illness is most lingering effect that you know its like a victorian. As if it didnt happen well also the prosecutors said that he would be less likely to kill himself joining us on to be less likely to kill himself. In the United States prison that he had belmarsh prison in london well of course yes. Has he been in a u. S. Prison supermax i have ive interviewed people in them they were described i think by Edward Fitzgerald q. C. The defense q. C. As a clean hell and that says it perfectly thats sanitized wonderfully scent of tar shining. And they are a vision of a true brave new world and its there as so many witnesses made clear hed be subject to something cold sans its an acronym for special administrative measures in which hed be dropped in a hole and not seen again they said not solitary confinement in that in fact he would have access to things that easy the prosecutions argument against this was not was was 90 against. It was so disingenuously didnt quite say it was a country club but ok so was it was so pathetic one rightly should be angry about it but thats the game they play. A song thats the whole the whole hearing shouldnt have happened it should have been thrown out we had evidence on the the 2nd last day that. A sundress being spied on by a Spanish Security Company Almost certainly in the pay of the cia all his his confidential deliberations with with his lawyers and doctors had been spied on on record and that would be enough to throw doubt in the other famous. Whistle blower case of Daniel Ellsberg in 1971 i think it was on ellsberg of course was one of the witnesses at the is saddams trial. It was the fact that nixon had sent his thugs into Daniel Ellsberg psychiatrists office trying to get some dirt on him the very thing but the americans were doing in the Ecuadorian Embassy on assignment that in the old trial was enough to throw the judge threw it out david no allegations of a that case continues but david rosen you see global claim they were protecting Julian Assange as they were hired by the ecuadorian government to help sure they goes and all the pig flying of afshan describe his average day julian isnt just average days average day. At the moment i dont know whether he will be relieved once this thing is a. He is roused at 5 oclock in the morning in belmont. He is stripped searched his shackled. Presumably hes allowed to shop and have some prison breakfast he then in june. At least an hour and a half. In this torture his drive from belmont to the old bailey in walked his partner Stella Morris is described as Something Like an upright coffin ive seen it its a great white circle around the truck of course. And theres a small window at the top to look out to you have to stand rather precariously. So in this dreadful stop stop traffic and ive driven it from belmont to the Central Criminal Court songes taken in this in this box this is this prison. To to a court where he he sits in. A go out scorer door in which is his gob and himself and the only way he can speak to his lawyers is to get down on his knees time and again ive watched him because where ive been sitting has been looking down on him hes got down on his knees to speak through a slit in the garage in the in the glass. To one of the. Lawyers at the back and she writes his message on opposed to the post it is then handed through the body of the court to the barristers who are arguing the case against his extradition to an american oh all thats how he communicates with his lawyers its actually slightly better than watergate was had Westminster Magistrates Court where is actually in a glass cage hes known to gloss corrigible. Would deny its a coffin that they carry out their private eyes outsourced British Government just as. All brilliantly do you think thats the reason why judge or magistrate if it is of rates a didnt want Amnesty International Reporters Without Borders present i mean why were they not allowed in theyve been tweeting furiously Reporters Without Borders i honestly i mean its good to see both those organizations. Speaking up to Many Organizations and im not necessarily pointing the finger at both of them but a son should have been a prisoner of conscience. Along with Chelsea Manning a long time ago its good to see them protesting at at this outrage that they werent allowed in the court will remain convinced in the report is that voters went so far as to tweet against a b. B. C. Journalist arguably a b. B. C. Journalist said you see the reason why you view is may have to watch going underground to hear about this and not the b. B. C. Reports daily from this trial of the century as people have been calling it is it was a bit repetitive you know the inane at. And the cynicism in that statement repetitive every day has been a description usually of hell. Of the kind of hell that we keenly expose the kind of hell to which all of us have a right to know. Which is now being imposed on the on the truth teller himself and for that b. B. C. Journalist to describe it as repetitive. Doesnt quite leave me speechless but it leaves me with a sense that. Its over. With much of the media to watch this day off the day this extraordinary important trial telling us so much about. How those who govern us those who want to control our lives and what they are and what they do to other countries how they live to us watch this day off today. And see none of the reporter door if you do see it reported youll see Something Like. A sound told to pipe down by the judge on the day. He only did this 2 or 3 times i dont know how he kept his mouth shot. Where he stood up and protested at at the evidence that was that was clearly. Folse and and offensive to him and that was the headline that was the story of the day we didnt get access what was the judge like this judge threw out and this abrasive she declared against the defense so many times she imposed the guillotine of hall for no on the. On defense witnesses statement. And she gave up to 4. To the to the prosecution for their crossexamination no i know crossexamination usually gets more time but the disparity between the 2 is absolutely great task but obviously the Crown Prosecution Service will deny all of that john pilger ill stop you there more from one of the worlds greatest journalists after this short break. Theyre all doing their backs or head. Up for the feel good but so. Far get. Everything you. Just said you can manage to get. Some of the most of. The time and it gives me a show not just because. They are the house of. God since we. Need. To mean tony getting scared when the. Only. Kind of the system different in. Minnesota didnt run shithead. Welcome back im still here with journalist filmmaker and friend of wiki leaks founder julian songe john pilger the Guardian Newspaper it was referred to time and time again as a security m. A member has an element of hardening and David Lee David lee who was intrusted the. Secret password to. Some of the wiki leaks files and published it and they published it in their book to get the money and has been saying that Julian Assange manage or at least printing stories about it isnt being the problem because he didnt redact data from wiki leaks cables that were released thats in danger in people around the world what is meant for interrupting but what has come through perhaps more powerfully than end of thing is that the sons went out of his way to protect in 4 months to redact Daniel Ellsberg said he redacted 15000 files the distinguished investigative journalist nicky hagar who worked with the soundtrack on this said watched him taking the most extraordinary proportions. With with with the material though it doesnt just paranoid one thing to redact so much i would suggest those who didnt redact perhaps are only up the side certainly not on the sondra side og known for for years the extent to which truly on the saw went to redact and tried to redact and work through the night to redact and couldnt and wasnt allowed to so much of this has come out in court and or to have been reported the one with the good you know the reporting about the guardian at the old bailey on its front page or perhaps the guardian has something to hide or even something to fia and do you think do you think there are many people that many publications that feel this way i mean this is who no one is having the guardian directly do dont go over the a little i dont really want to concentrate the guardians behavior through all this its campaign of vilification against assad and the way they turned all news source they way they are because he wouldnt be part of the collusive club. Has been a disgrace. They know its been a disgrace the way they published articles like the one that said that trump advised the poll man a full and russians visited a son but it never happened theres been no apology from the guardian. I think. Its not just the god in there are many of the newspapers that a found some actually behaved rather honorably i think i think it was good to hear from the investigative reporter. Joining goods who was the investigations editor i think of their spiegel in germany. He spoke very clearly he also refuted the story but of sonde which is in the hopping liebl theres a son she. Had had had said that. It was quite a good thing that some of these informants while home goods harding and lee were not at this dinner i put so silence was meant to have said this but john goods was and he said and said a son said nothing of the kind now judge parades wouldnt allow goods to actually after those words in court she cut him off. Because of time well because i think the reason i sang corrected but i think the reason was that these words actually werent in his written statement but he was telling the truth well we invite hiding and the editor of the god you know on to explain its behavior im sure theyll deny completely in the secret agenda it has me said the joe biden the democrat contend to full the presidency the United States says that julius ont was. Was like a high tech terrorist he called him a cyber terrorist yes. Well what would you expect. Made trump by. Jumping on the reg of his ain doesnt know anything about we get leaks its not my thing i know there is something having to do with julian is a whos who knows what trump knows about who knows what he says is true that minute it changes the next i do know that what came out very clearly from these few days from story these few weeks in court. Was that. The son of his own trial for journalism and the many other journalists have done exactly what he did and that is publish. The. Iraq and Afghanistan War diaries. One website published it well before even wiki leaks the guardian published the prosecutions and you know we time the prosecution did we can he says more reach even if we keep expose them later. But they they all publish the same thing and the. The 917 espionage act 103 years ago which has never been used against a journalist because in the United States the journalist and free journalism is meant to be protected by the constitution this is the 1st time. Hes been its been used the 1st time. And in my view if they get away with this if they send a sondre across the atlantic it point be the last time it will be the beginning who will be next. You did detect someone hopefully some kind of change in the last 2 days of this 4 week hearing at the old bailey can you tell me a little bit about. My sense was that british justice has been so trashed by this trial unfold the socalled Case Management proceedings before it that an innocent man a man whose only crime has been biol infringement for which he received an unheard of sentence of almost a year in a maximum security prison with murderers and convicted terrorists. My sense is. They may feel its going to be too far because everyone going into that Court Lawyers those of us who have been in many courts around the world. Can no longer poured the 2 words british and justice together. There hasnt been due process in this court that has been due revenge. Now certainly in the last few days there are periods the heads appeared to be a loosening up allowing of for instance the the the defense and prosecution are allowed a whole month to make their closing statements but still they come make them they cant argue them in court they can only make them on paper. And judge parades who will give decision on the 4th of january on the stand. But the whole dreadful drama. And the. The arguing against the. What professor mills mills of the u. N. Reporter on torture has called arguing against the very fact the obvious fact of the psychological torture of all these journalist and publish publish who told us about war crimes he told us about war crimes he told us about how governments lies that thats journalism has been recall sed literally has espionage not espionage in the country you come from or even the country you publish from this country but in another country the United States what has gone is solvent. That american jurisdiction can cross any ocean and reach into any country any journalist just imagine to reverse it china doing that china with its own equivalent sounds case russia can you imagine the outrage it would never happen i mean obviously hes in Australian Citizen you a born in australia if hes extradited to have a genius who had to face 175 year sentence if found guilty i mean would you be able to be a journalist and he will. Own pain of the body. Anymore i dont. So dont wish to give a frivolous sciences thats what i do and i regard it as a constant privilege but it is sort of israelis of course if its always gave you information that pretty much for us or curity i would try and find somewhere where it be published i doubt whether these days whether a newspaper would do it yes it does make use of a live look forward possible to the sun just done what the best journalists have dont and. They will know theyve theyve theyve come into court to you know people like nicky hogger and and and all those of coming to court patrick open to talk about journalism. But lets say that this is you know going underground of these extra states it really because obviously we publicize it and covering all of this im going to ask you then given that its a month now for that evidence then its the decision by parades or in january for 2021 and then perhaps an appeal to the high court and so what how given that we now know about smuggled in razor blades into belmarsh prison by julian is it the suicide risk that he presents can he can he last i dont know i cant speculate on that. I point ever ive seen julian in belmont i mean when i 1st went to see him off to he was. After he was thrown out of the Ecuadorian Embassy one of the 1st things he said was. I think im losing my mind and i found myself reassuring him that he wasnt his resilience is absolutely astonishing. And that he and that includes courage of course. About what we did ludden and i have to say to me. That some of the display of. The punishment has worked on him that some of the despair that he has had to endure during this. I think if hes freed he will recover he is a strong personality hes a political prisoner Political Prisoners as they they knew on Robben Island and so many other places can recover perhaps not everything but the substantial part of them because theyve been there for a principle one of the things thats always been neglected about wiki leaks is that it started with a a rather moral a and that the politicians should be accountable. Thats that they should in a democracy they should be accountable to us i know he felt very passionately right from the beginning. So he has that he feels strongly about that. But its been 10 need is of incarceration of one convert. And this last year of this loss. Whatever dues 15 months in this dreadful place belmont has just been horrendous. Its its just in the land of magna carta what a what a shame. Thank you and then he was being disturbed by the issues maybe ordering ad a british prison you can go on thank the samaritans the number is done here thats it for the show will be back on monday 34 years to the day the world came to know about israels alleged Nuclear Weapons for Mordechai Vanunu would be kidnapped in londons west square in amman said honey. Before solitary imprisonment there was a book and still not talk freely to the media until then keep in touch via you tube Twitter Facebook instagram and. The entrepreneurs to our Developers Like trumps entrepreneur he states a crisp day arresting that these properties could blow up and not be worth anything of value and thats what entrepreneurs do and they get to