Unemployment and jobs that are permanently lost here but the more i look at it and you gentlemen are preeminent experts here i dont i dont really think its that you are an l. Im really quite taken with this k. A recovery the rich got richer and the poor got for is that an oversimplification richard go ahead not at all i think weve already seen that now folks like some time that at least 2 or 3 or 4 decades of growing inequality both of wealth and income and instead of that being understood as having contributed to the combination pandemic and crash were living through instead of that being understood we see the crash having made it worse the growth of the wealthy at the very top having outstripped everything we could have imagined at the same time that now over 60000000 americans have. Had to file for one or another kind of state or federal Unemployment Compensation assistance this is a system that is spinning out of control in terms of extremes of wealth inequality and income inequality and theres nothing on the horizon that suggests that thats going to change and so i think that is becoming a permanent quality of this economy and in a society that used to in the 20th century pretend that it was that a vast middle class that capitalism was a tide that lifted all boats i dont think this is politically already a logically sustainable. Peter the same question to you because if we look at the Consumption Patterns of the top 10 percent during the worst of the pen demick the lock down their consumption went down Something Like 15 percent but the class that serves them their income went down more than 30 percent thats according to some reports here so i mea and we do know that it just pays those stories of the billionaires stories how theyve really done well out of all of this year it is that it can to a Cable Company because we do have this growing and maybe permanent underclass go ahead you are well you know i dont even care what letter you want to try to use to describe it my problem is with the word recovery because i dont think weve recovered at all sure there has been a recovery in the stock market in that the market recovered what it lost in the early days of coded and yes i mean this recession that were currently in began with a very substantial collapse and yes theres been a bit of a bounce off of that collapse but were still in a recession and so i dont know if recovering to being in a less severe recession then we were in at one point really qualifies as a recovery and i dont think weve seen the lows i think were going to relapse i think were actually going to go down and theres a good chance that the stock market might make new lows as well but regardless of what happens with that bubble in the short run the reality is that main streets pain has actually been wall street again its precisely because the economy remains so weak and whats really at the root cause of the weakness is not capitalism its the failure to have capitalism its the Federal Reserve that is monetizing massive government debts that are only inflating asset bubbles but at the same time it is depriving the real economy of the reason. Or so that it actually needs to grow and build a Real Recovery that would in fact lift all boats instead were settling for a fake recovery because thats the easiest one to create because in order to have a Real Recovery were going to have to have some short term pain in order to make that possible because what has to recover is not consumption but production we need more savings we need more Capital Investment and to and to enable lat we actually need higher Interest Rates not lower Interest Rates and we need a Smaller Government not a larger government so everything that we have done since the pandemic began is actually weakening the economy and were compound ing all of the stakes that we made before the pandemic if you remember we were already slipping along before anybody heard of covert 19 and 4th quarter 2018 thats when the wheels started coming off the bus thats when the fed did the about face and started cutting rates thats when they really started to move from quantitative tightening back a quantitative easing now in march of 2020 right those trends excel aerated we went right back to 0 and we went we skipped q. E. 4 and went right to q e infinity but all these policies are simply blowing more air into a big bubble analysts same time theyre depriving the real economy of the air that it needs to grow if it if i go back to it when all of these mistakes and i cant simply agree with much when you present but much of those mistakes have benefited the same people the richest people that weve ever known in the history of humanity those mistakes ok yes i agree you know what a lot of assets we agree we agree but im to focus you know richard here is that but because these mistakes have benefited these people why should they do anything about it i mean they made out i mean theres no ones going to let me go to richard if theyre still getting their mistakes going. I think the use of the word mistake and it always amazes me. Its a mistake over and over again year after year peter is quite right i agree but these mistakes being systematic the repeated over and over again are not dealt with adequately by suggesting that if only those mistakes werent made we would have some nice functioning capitalism that would look again lift all boats it seems to me that the people at the top have figured out that if and when they can they can make more money if that drowns the economy and in that downturn they can turn back to their advantage as well using Monetary Policy to insulate the stocks upon which the bulk of their wealth depends this is a mistake that so often repeated that the word mistake starts to lose its meaning this is the way capitalism slayers out it might be nice to imagine that it would function some other way but thats the utopian imagery of that stateless capitalism that probably never existed but in the last 100 years some are sure has disappeared as this state has become a major lender for the gross and concentration of wealth with or without the mergers between the state and the biggest chap in the lists which is happening more and more as we see i think this is the real capitalism we have to live with and not the imaginary one that peter likes to suggest i read it i mean the middle im in the middle of it both between being and when you said you agree with peter i think you agree with both peter and youre going to go to the other peter and hear. What youre used the word count was many get that its you know i think its very problematic because it doesnt seem to be benefiting the whole lot of people because they know nonetheless here i would agree with peter our guest here in the sense that im tired of socialism. For the very very rich and then everybody else gets the crumbs in the countless the economy it will 1st of all dont confuse what america has now with capitalism i mean whats left of capitalism have been destroyed by socialism so its the socialism that has crept into the system that is responsible for the problems in this mass disparity in wealth but also you assume that this is going to end well for the rich i assure you its not these asset bubbles are temporary a lot of this wealth only exists on paper people are not actually spending that money its just on an on a brokerage account statement what is coming is a major collapse in the value of the dollar the inflation is ultimately going to result in the cost of living rising much faster than the paper value of peoples assets so believe me the rich are going to get theirs too everybody in america is going to be impoverished to a degree by these failed policies its not just of course the middle class theyre just going to suffer the most but in the end the rich are going to suffer too but the real solution for everybody is a return to capitalism what we need is sound and money and independent fed that no longer artificially manipulates insta Interest Rates to prop up asset prices and to subsidize government deficit spending we need much higher Interest Rates that will result in a big decline in spending from government and consumers will have more savings will have more capital or Capital Investment we need a lot less regulation as well as cuts to Government Spending so we can have a more vibrant economy instead of the sick economy we have now that is on life support that is temporarily benefiting people who own the assets that benefit from the inflation that the fed is creating but ultimately that inflation is going to rise result in an increase in the cost of living for everybody and we are headed for a dollar crisis and clearly the rich own more dollars in any. But ill play they have most to lose when the value of the dollars theyre holding completely implodes ok im certain i think we have won they all 3 of us have been coming to a crisis that is on her rights but richard how can how can you save money and how can you invest money if you dont have a job i mean its very simple here. Yeah i mean im mazed a little bit by this and were going to have high Interest Rates were going to really crunch down on the economy you mention in passing that consumers will have to save more they dont have anything left to save from thats why this level of savings of the great mass of americans is virtually 0 or negative already theyve been suffering for so long theres nothing left to crunch down on them which is already happening now it is a recipe for much more turmoil and chaos in this society zen were already then were already seeing i agree with peter that this is going to end very badly and its going to diesel late the bubble at the stock market alongside of Everything Else but for me this is the end of an empire and for the 1st time in my adult life i dont see a way out i dont see a solution emerging i used to it my ear that way capitalism over change the Great Depression and all the other afflictions that it has imposed on the people around it but i dont hassle is a line in a hose those inflexions government did not listen it honestly out of work laden and it struck me as one remarkable thing so blaines socialism for the ills of capitalism is an extraordinary moves at a time like this when the socialist movement is coming back from a period of historic weakness precisely at the time that the growth and equality what went into that as unesco show as an adventure a lot as in well then even the service. Undermining the structure of the bill is on me look youre talking about is that social workers are going to have to jump in here were going to go to a heartbreaking. Discussion on whether the recovery stay with our. Time after time corporations repeat the same mantra sustainability very important. Transition to sustainable prize board sustainability. A more equitable and sustainable well. They claim that production is completely harmless. It. Companies want us to feel good about products while the damage is being done far away and this is something this must be. Understood to going in. Survival guide. To the story. He should. Repeat. The 7. Cash calendar is downright alfonzo among his darned his cherished unpaid change dard. Whose 1st words were at a lot of us youre a child you post youve got 2 years to live. I have no doubt that what happened was criminal. Defense concentrated market is a 1000000000. 00 industry these companies have assumed financial motivation to solve these problems there are numerous stocks showing that doctors were keen to test facts right concentrates right infectivity on the patient wont give them doctors the wrong to play ball our Current System why they would keep me sick each of those years. And people still die i dont always question or so i try being hard to live when so many have. Welcome back to cross or all things are considered im Peter Lavelle tree mind you were discussing whether there will be a cheney recovery. Ok richard let me go back to you in new york. A few years ago i met an indian businessmen very successful indian businessman and at the time indias economy was doing quite well again usually using these macro be a Macro Economic indicators ok g. D. P. Growth. Income number of people employed but at the same time theres like 200000000 people that live in stark covered in india. And i said to him i said it is youre the indian model just to accept that youre going to have 200000000 people in stark poverty because you see your economy is growing and as an investment target people are pouring money into it i mean is it because the Indian Economy since accepted its going to have an underclass so im asking you is this whats happening to america where you were going to have an underclass permanent under cattle class and if. It will the perception is that the will be enough political stability to maintain the status quo because it seems to me i agree with the last remarks you made in the 1st part of the pro the program is that you know i dont see a way out here go ahead richard. Yeah i think thats exactly whats happening i think were learning in a variety of ways to live with an enormous underclass i disagree with you that we didnt already have one i think are good but i think it we are now learning to live with a much larger one and you can see that in a variety of ways except in space flight what people claim of 200000 people dead from a pandemic that didnt have anything like that impact in many many other countries the United States has 4 and a half percent of the worlds people it has 25 percent of the cold it cases and 25 percent of the deaths for a rich country thats a stupefying failure of management but its also the acceptance of guns speak of full suffering in its population as if it were normal and ditto for the level of poverty divil ditto for the level of discrimination dr Antony Funnell chief yesterday at the bloomberg equality senate explained how people of color in america have the lowest wealth the lowest income dalias. Cases of coal did and they have the frontline workers they are the ones that are suffering from hypertension diabetes obesity if you wanted a proof of everything the black lives Matter Movement wanted to suggest about systemic racism you could just listen to dr found chief in 15 minutes and you would get it and it is being accepted mainly by the government right now as official policy so instead doing absolutely nothing to undercut it i think we are becoming the society we used to see overseas on claims of wealth new York San Francisco chicago and all of that and so rounded by a sea of really desperate poverty they have accepted that in india and they have. Our system is if not more despite the independence from Great Britain they have the excepted in brazil another case and boy you look at trump blow snarl and moldy and you can see the kind of right wing government which this is an acceptable range you know it would. Be silly im going to follow politics very carefully and i watch snippets of the the republican and democratic conventions and i was appalled im simply appalled that 900 party has a pro active economic agenda presumed to presume to pursue in light of the. High unemployment. And the in the structural changes that are going through the economy i didnt see that from either party here and it goes back to my question to richard is there is this an exception acceptance that were just going to have a whole lot more poor people. Well you know were i disagree that weve even been having a growing economy i dont think we had any growth even before coding and i think the g. D. P. Numbers were manufactured based on understating the true rate of inflation and so by understating inflation you can make it appear that a stagnating or shrinking economy is is actually growing its not you know the reason that americans dont have any savings is because the economy has been growing theyve been able to keep it together through debt theyve used debt to replace their income but why is that its because we dont have a vibrant economy because we dont have real increases in productivity thanks to Big Government and banks the Federal Reserve so were in this gigantic hall because we have banded capitalism and embraced a socialist form of government we have Government Central planning we have Central Planning on Interest Rates we have price fixing and market manipulation and we have an economy where were trying to i generate growth by printing money and giving it to people to spend and that. Its not going to work well he said the only way to get really good amik growth is to shrink government so that we can have a stronger more vibrant economy because we need more productivity to consume more we have to produce more and the government doesnt produce anything all it does is interfere with the productive efforts of the private sector you know the problem is though but peter but the government it particularly in the last 2 years that particularly during this economic turndown they chose winners i mean the you know so jeff bezos announced goal and all that theres a real socialist in america because youre the winner in all of this ok i mean i think you know these terms calculus and socialism dont really mean anything for me is that both it whos been out of it promote all of this the middle class is not the working class isnt the Big Tech Companies are in the banks are doing really well here are the banks that are doing well look at the debate or imploding look at look at their prices look the Banking Sector is in a lot of trouble but look none of the bailouts should have happened there should have been a p. P. P. The whole thing was a disaster nobody should be getting a check from the government these extended Unemployment Benefits were a mistake what we need is Less Government not more government government has to cut spending not increase it money printing is just going to make it worse its going to destroy the value of our money and were going to blame all these problems im capitalism and were going to continue to build a bigger and bigger government that is going to suffocate the life out of this economy and the people who are going to suffer the most are going to be the middle class and the poor are ok were going to face are you did it if you have i agree with you how the dollar is being destroyed here but the people that are benefiting from this they turn their dollars into real assets like my ass yes they will always sound valuable but what about working people that lost their jobs you know theyre good theyre good you cant really cant turn it into whatever it is but what is the government supposed to know about it even if you only. Stuff like problem i could hold on if i owned it right now to go ahead rachel ive always found it extraordinary that the way folks like peter tried to exonerate the capitalist system from each grotesque failures is by having a deus ex not going to the government drops into this story so that all the anger and bitterness and rage against the capitalism that produces all these problems including owning and controlling the government is exempted from that criticism you cited it all off on the government create this utopian fantasy of a get out of legislature let me share a king but out of capitalism without a government has never had an say no gov all easy game to govern it they govern their eyes the halleys and i like that they are ultimately its always been controlled by the people who have the big boxed theyve used it from their own advantage the imagination that we could have a capitalism with the employer with a minority of employees a control everything who are not going to try to control the government is a fantasy we have never let your ignorance and encouraging peculation is only exceeded by your ignorance of history listen i dont do that to you so do but im telling you youre wrong youve got to understand capitalism go away no idea what you are not who you are youre declaring unable anything like an appliance or lives like what to do keeping on talking doesnt solve the problem i go day you go what is your solution to the problem youre not directing this conversation by magic in your heart of it yeah well actually we are a lot of the shit we have got out of it as more money printing and are not going to do this again that we did or you know were just chilling up time doing this yet ok peter asked a fair question what is the solution richard because we only have about 2 and a half minutes 3 minutes go there we got capitalism is this. A system that is organized in every enterprise by having a small minority of people the owner the shareholders the major shareholders the board of directors making all the decisions from the majority of people who are called employees thats a very similar arrangement to the lords and the serfs of feudalism and to the ministers and the slaves of slavery we didnt break out of that dichotomy of a few controlling the many until we developed a concept of democracy the solution to the problems of capitalism is still put capitalism where we put slavery in feudalism we have to substitute a democratically organized and to price right to debase every factory every store every Office Organized in the way we organize our politics one person one vote we decide together what to produce how to produce where to produce and what to do with the fruits of the labor weve all get in tribute album is your holier sister the knowledge that youre talking about creating life you know maybe how to cast a role like environment id or like if you think theres a war you know well youre in cuba youre going to soviet oh yeah youre going to want to really add you have this survey to see what is not is going on erics gathered work it only works in your imagination it does your reality and your reader ology that meter reader you know he has a very polished savvy you know i want to ask is a substantial question here peter how do you how would you react to tens of millions of people that have lost their jobs have no future and i dont think they to think in terms of capitalism but a lot of them would say what is capitalism doing for me and i think thats a legitimate question if you because a recovery i agree with your 1st answer this program will get a recovery it depends on yourself where you are in life if thats a recovery or not yet this solution. Depends on embracing capitalism and read. Jack ting socialism we need to restore free market capitalism to this country Big Government needs to get out of the way we need to have sound money and limited government again that is the only path back to prosperity there is real pain there are real problems i dont deny that government and central banking cause those problems and government and Central Banks are not going to solve the how could a more government we have it will work if we try to socialize the economy and to turn it if theres some kind of socialist paradise a guy that only exists when they are just going is like were going to take a bad stage and i dont lets make it much im the worst you know who controls the government just as well as i do blaming the government just likes of people who are pulling the puppet strings all of the criticism they deserve you know when i have to be here im putting it right is as americas i want to thank my campus in westport and in new york and i dont want to thank our viewers for watching us year arche see you next time remember. Its going to be hard to reclaim freedom and were going to have to work at it but as people recognize from examples like seams you. Would ration Digital Systems lead to. I hope people will start fighting men saying we wont tolerate systems our streets in our homes that cant possibly track what were doing. We are segregated. By social class laws people also want to have a 1st. If youre born into a poor family youre born into a minority family if youre born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your life chances people die. If youre born into generational poverty. By every day so you meet your needs and the needs of your family. Day right now here in moscow in the headline says 25th of september france registers a new daily coded record as the number of cases passes 16000 in the last 24 hours but the governments fresh antivirus measures are provoking anger to. Trial and error a u. K. Volunteers meantime could soon be deliberately infected with coded the worlds 1st Human Vaccine trials of the current sparking ethical concerns. Are the news to brief you on major world carmakers file a lawsuit against the trumpet ministration over what theyve been on. A limited trade war with china. License to kill a british