Politics 1st magazine and in budapest we cross to jordan samuel he is author of bombs for peace natos humanitarian war and yugoslavia are across up rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate when you let me start with george and george lets start with the big story because the beer a story looks like its kind of morphing into the venezuelan story of the baltics ok because we have this pretend or recognize from. From lithuania i think it is this moment that they can all scalia that she is the president in exile right now are they pulling a white go here because i seriously doubt this would be happening in my own peo had made a phone call go ahead george well they are trying to pull away though but of course the white dont case turned out to be a complete fiasco. And its clear that the Trump Administration isnt terribly happy with the policy that it got stuck with thanks to the pressure from former National Security advisor john bolton so i have my doubts that they go to political why go over this. Because if youre going to give them. Is notable for all the absence of pressure from the United States yes it has been actually taken a rather reckless an approach towards this and without pressure from the americans. I dont think this is going to go very far and and its so theres already indications that look at shango feels very confident of himself and hes being his usual difficult self with with the russians feeling rather confident that the e. C. At the say you know mark is a i tend to agree with george and on top of it a look at Chiang Khamenei made it very public particularly to to rushing to television stations that he isnt least rhetorically officially open to some kind of transition though within the bounds of russian law thats that indicates to me that hes learned the lesson that he can stay but he has to start thinking of an exit here what are your thoughts marcus lets see. How something over the last few weeks what we have to say here about very soon is an attempt by the west to be a serious for the west coast resolution v. S. E. Ease and his hands his crew against some of its presence and a use in the school is serious and he so all must say of course they were goes back to you know many who is also sort of one color resolutions georgists or falsehood and free ukraines who files and for his songs he falls under fire and mercenaries. Vote ukraines few files and for change but these tendencies crew a better choice was always going to fail why because the well meaning were showing off the belorussian population weve gotten cells as possible the russians well they see themselves as part of the lawson family secondly. We should quit more accurately. Ease the facts or province of the Russian Federation and we have seen that scene in recent times because the Russian Ministry in tandem with about russias military has announced see you loose disposes wish polands ukraine and about 6 cents to prevent infiltrates is from coming in for a necessary so on those countries and also Russian Special services working alongside the Russian Special services have now identified its asian profile consumers the west in most notably of course means now the real question is or should he not will see isnt always going to what was he going to seize and no what it has now done it is shredded for and russias position over lucas shankar because how did not change leadership in color then the unions say its all for gosh i. Wish rules which was formulated between yatsenyuk look a stranger in the late 1990 s. Would have come into being by now but look ish and co has so we get a sense chris in case of the helmet russia because look if she wants to be a presence of the union sites now that lucia and her has remarkably and our president turns a person for assistance in france and i approve that now heres it should. Losing every leverage so the kremlin to exercise unfair question or so i actually believe that innocent person place the west has actually placed an appearance will go while i believe the mix here lies ations sooner costs and lays off the union states well george but thats the fly in the ointment here i mean and its one of the things that i get very frustrated with looking at the west your narrative because its not about lucas its about the place that we know is be a ruse be all russia and its relationship with russia and as mark was quite correctly and in great detail discuss this is a this is a single state ok at this point here and the problem has been is that its been looked at shank unwilling to implement every single phase in stage of that that he signed up to and so could this is the this is the unreported narrative that whats going on in india rules because its it is kind of a lucas shango problem but for very Different Reasons go ahead yes thats right. There the policy before the election which was a day by the e. U. And the United States was to try to foster a snotty division between. Belarus and russia as possible and that made a certain amount of geo strategic sense whatever it is makes life difficult for the russians nato the United States regards as a good thing. In as many headaches thats possible but by overplaying their hand in belarus as much as quite rightly point out. They have now strengthened the the bond between russia and belarus and youre getting the impression that out that the europeans are sensing the food supply. And have trying to draw back because i do think its striking that. That the whole of this propaganda to have. You kind of scale and having all these attractive women around and over the propaganda to try to get oh this is the belarus that we want to recognize this is a legitimate government of belarus thats failed thats thats gone nowhere so it looks to me like we may be heading to was the preelection policy of well lets try to foster division but i think thats extremely unlikely to fail i think that that train that left the station speaking about division that means if you look at the reaction of the European UnionMember States its the whole quite go scenario is its really been given a Cold Shoulder because you know were not going to go through this again i think we also have to point out is that the European Union as a whole has ukraine i mean look at what the resources and. And time they put into ukraine and well they kind of got a you know a milk toast version of what they wanted ok because. The fundamental reforms that ukraine needs is not happening right now and again just the the billions and billions of euros that went nowhere i personally think and get so marcus on was how much do you think that plays into this kind of it. Give me some part of the europeans about this regime change playbook. Well here again is huge is nationally i was rifle to the United States in economic terms but also malaysia the European Union is a strategic friends and i so you know i have to say so indeed we can science that russians and takes us im sure to some ounce of influence over the e. U. Policy by can i use science in all seriousness and in full saying whether america place sanctions on the Russian Federation because of the crisis in ukraine which incidentally america response. For the European Union. By germany was very apprehensive about wanting to place sanctions on the last they did resist but in the end of the year being union it caved into the pressure to phone the United States and i think if we fast forward to 20 twentieths what weve seen in recent times. Yes the European Union has says he player go in that its simply the case that whole and in the 06 a switch a very dangerous countries for russian National Security how to actually facilitate its. Tenets its career in the country but i think olson italy the hand washington is responsible for what we have seen in belarus and i think that piece of the americans are actually emboldened by this high up in ukraine because yes ross analysis the money cant be cold its ukraine and loss i mean ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the us and and it has been ever since it came independence in late 990 but nonetheless ukraine as we talk now is integrated and if the west has ukraine is the greatest. Policy challenge to the kremlin so i think the americans have chosen bones and by their success in ukraine they obviously did not do their homework so sufficient enough to understand that belarus is not you trying to have better risk as i said the facts are a province of the Russian Federation or you can put it is a russian consensus or its in her chart markets that it washington doesnt do its own mortgage they thats kind of an understatement because they screw up every step of the way here i think youre right marcus i mean you know washington is in bold but i think in bold in the sense that it think way to create a quagmire ok where 8 if you know russia has to take the burden here if its not a success and a nominal way its a. Oh he screwed up that neighborhood it makes the neighborhood stable thats a victory for us which is a very cynical Foreign Policy go ahead george yes now that youve hit the nail on the head that peter thats exactly what the american think its. Not. The way goes in belarus the americans say well lets try it out because its a headache for the europeans because its right there on their border its a headache for the russians. And its a left walk back to say yeah ok you know whats the solution more america because all they say shows that the europeans are unable to sort out their own problems so he was and its the same you know you see the same scenario played out in iraq and syria and libya and say ok its the oh hey not ouse so. You know but what it is do is they then you if you need all these cases you capture elites in specific countries ok and they even toward it within their own within their own country and then within the union youre ok joe let me jump in here were going to go to a short break and after that short break more discussion and some real news stay with arkie. L. Look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. I robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such conflict with the 1st law show your identification for should be very careful about Artificial Intelligence and the point is to trace. Every. Conflict the various chozen with Artificial Intelligence will summon the demon. The robot must protect its own existence as nexus for. A new gold rush is underway and gone up thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields hoping to strike it rich. As. Children are torn between gold. My family was very poor i thought i was doing my best to get back to school which side will have the strongest appeal. Halder. Dares to think. We are here to ask. Welcome back to crossfire or all things are considered im peter lubell remind you were discussing some real names. Ok because this goes which heres a talk about the strange case of natalee the more we learn or dont learn about this the story here about the alleged poisoning of mr noel me which is seen in the west as kind of the leader of the russian opposition to the political status quo i would like to preface by before i ask question is that he hardly has much of a following in russia which you know of course western media would not tell their their audience as you know but it seems to be you know who are you who do you want to believe and i think this is where lee what what the origins of this strange case is about who are you going to believe the russian said that this gentleman left the country with no indication that he had been poisoned and then german Officials Say just the opposite but at the same time not releasing to the public what kind of him from nightmare information they have that would prove that allegation so its kind of hope political football and its really more about Something Else but i want you to react so far. Oh firstly haste and there is no political reason for the kremlin to syria or want to assassinate around i why because its not how they sat in it in Russian Society is absolutely national and also stratus all Russian Society that hes a loser and alexina found it because he has to say by do you want to marry a russian man and woman as being a fool is cullen all the United States or someone who wants to return to how it was during the 1990s by which i mean so in city americans so he has no sand in will so far amongst ordinary russians secondly there is no economic reason for the kremlin so also assassinate no rally because that was in necessarily jeopardize nor straight and the russians do not want anything to affect no stream why because a new strange comes to shes a very significant source of revenue for the russian governments friendly you dont have to be a scientist to understand that if someone sees poisons where for a nerve agent for example not in shock and especially in the confines of an aircraft then people who are around the person who is being poisoned on actually current city contaminated yes in that case and not passengers adjacent to him not carrying troops not the people who treated him well contaminates its treat it differently had a tendency so you assassinate about a why only pace or will they have a latin charm to germany knowing that this is a species he can i suppose and so the americans without a leg he has been poisoned by the kremlin it is absolutely prosperous nonsense there is no reason why the kremlin was once assassinated. Found he asked and on the whole i would say this to the germans if they are so sussan that newfound me was some of the senses is poisonous around me by using nothing short and cool to see the evidence of the germans it goes to the kremlin wants us to not allow russian medical doctors and scientists to transition many of the German Authorities to share their medical and scientific findings with the russians its a simple as this statement if you have nothing to hide then you have no reasonable sense in all shapes finds and with a posse i know that isis warrior senior dogs to be accusations surrounding a found it is possible possible all of our own going concern and Vicious Campaign against russia because russia is a superpower going to find out its the americans and the british lower yield george can he still script files because its been this way get all script files again ok let a lot of transparency here but lets get to what i think this is all about and marcus are meant to hear this in my opinion this is my my conjecture is that this is just this one final attempt to. Derail north stream this is what this is really about ok and its putting the germans in a very hard place because Angela Merkel has made it very and shes on the way out if shes made it very care very clear during this entire process that this is an economic legal agreement this has nothing to do with politics she said and she pushed it based on those 2 principles now and really whatever is behind this gambit here once the germans to break there were and break their agreements ok which you know i dont like the american civil do it in the drop of a hat the germans are feel very uncomfortable about that and i think this is i think the pressure is not on the russians pressure is on the germans right now george. Well yes and theres obviously a very Strong Division of opinion within germany you have the German Military and security establishment that is start really embed it in atlanta so they close to the americans. Integrated within nato. And they have absolute every interest in trying to destroy this though it strain to deal however you also have the German Business Community that stands to make a lot of money on this and they say its important to remember this agreement this not stream to agreement was a German Initiative it was a missile the Russian Initiative i mean was it was the journey had im like i yeah yeah exactly so the way its often presented in the media is as if somehow this is a favor for the russians knows the fate of the germans who have very Serious Problems with energy that made a complete mess of the end if you follow so and it is extremely expensive in germany so they really badly need this cheap source of natural gas so for the germans not a scrap this agreement would be a very devastating blow but the germans havent done what the british did over the script all of them of the british were very skilled at mounting a kind of Global Propaganda Campaign that went to the u. N. Security council and denounced the russians they organized this diplomatic expulsions and so on the germans havent done that its not maybe that the divisions are so deep in germany that are unable to do it maybe then the germans just simply are not convinced by the you know by the by the whole not only case but again its same with belarus its whats striking is the lack of the driving force as yet that took place of the script that john is having yet mounted that kind of wild hysterical campaign that the british. Every day that the moment theyre losing the momentum if they if they dont continue or not and thats why i think that merkels pragmatism will come through shes going to say but this is just an economic i mean we havent even mentioned the consumers i mean thats a boon for german consumers as well ok since germany has moved away from coal and from nucular and marcus you know one part of the story when we look at north stream too is it why do we have these underground. Gas pipelines going through the baltic oh thats right because of what happened in ukraine ok i mean this is just so Foreign Policy chasing its tail ok you know it what with the the illegal overthrow of the government in 2014 is if it slipped. Ukraines strategic role in the Energy Equation of europe ok and so the russians said look you stop stealing it this is not for you and ukraine would use it as a political ploy to play everyone off against everyone and the germans the if the russians said no we dont need to play this game its your game ok its more washingtons game too and so we need to consider why these pipelines came into being in the 1st place because of the quagmire that was created in ukraine and then it doesnt serve europes interest whatsoever go ahead marcus. I think we may serenely schussel and that germany heavily depends on russia for natural gas the for its a colony of course its industry but im sorry for the scenario german man and woman asked him and i believe 65 percent of germanys gas actually comes from god so youre not his life for him in 3014 was has a sense of place sanctions on the russians trying to ration because it essentially only in the interests of the German Economy of france is the only option in a coup de witts highest by early. Not in all states and in twentys france it is not so in the interests all generally known string to somebody. But of course the americans couldnt care less about the German Economy and in fact theres quite a lot of safe they generally call many county because we want to be. The americans but i think also as well the americans are acutely aware as so of course its the kremlin that the russian economy and boss it is one of the largest in the quote is is not a die for us economy the russian they are russian economy is still overwhelmingly by stalin and italy and defense and salutes and 10 sincere at scotland no shame that is the way of the americans not the germans the americans trying to weaken the russian economy and ultimately trying to assist the c. I. C. The americans know what the weaknesses of the russian economy assy american states and youre in the late seventys in the early 1980 s. The weaknesses of the soviet economy and supply one of the reasons why reagan mbox on a massive arms race was associated because he knew the soviets a convo dont hate others and he knew much about politics in general the people around him year what weakness was the soviet union and that could bring the soviet union down and i think by trying to stop hundreds shame say that that is the way or the americans trying to bring down the russian economy because they know the russian economy is similar not to die for us from the latin American Economy or the british economy i can put it at the end of the day george this is you know and i think you know this this incident is really put into stark relief of the importance of europe do they want to have Energy Independence or not do they want to have a say in their rate and their Energy Sovereignty because in washington with love they have the europeans by. And actually liquefied natural gas at astronomical prices ok when europe for the most part is living in austerity and you want to the whole point is to get Affordable Energy liquefied natural gas is of last 40 seconds go to write so you get yet another price that the europeans have to pay for nato and the west the alliance youre going to have Expensive Energy use in your just like cheap energy but you will have expensive to get just like ukraine youre going to have to have a refugee flows Economic Crises and so on thats thats your price still a loyalty to nato in the western alliance ok gentlemen thats all the time we have i want to thank my guests and and budapest in london i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r. T. See you next time remember asta. Both of us. Last time we chased. Each one of them carrying 20 kilos d of drugs. First offense that. They just deployed. Is the 3 will remain all medical men they have insisted this is for me. Even if. I dont know maybe they dont make or. Break. For. Now were. Right. Solutions for the words inflation and deflation this is the fact that he can say both are happening at the same time or could happen the same time you have to ask yourself whats the whats the use of even using work like inflation or deflation because it stopped us and describe the whats going on with the economy weve outgrown knows words if the economy has moved beyond those definitions were in a different type of economy and markets completely. Seem wrong when old rules just dont hold. Any new world but yet to see how it does things to come out ahead and engagement equals betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. Hip pocket western claims to be allowed to poisoning of opposition figurehead. Russia continues to insist on cooperation with to get the best. Part is the limits of decency reason to now demanding that we confess given that on the 27th of august we sent a request for Legal Assistance from the russian general Prosecutors Office and still there is no warrants a. Lot of misfortune calls for entitled. To end the postelection during a meeting in thought. We will be one of the belorussians to handle their situation without any