John farben says they speak about america dont deserve to be leaders of the free world they gave up that right years ago in english says americas imploding trump was the beginning of the end for them and patricia says not just america the whole world will never be the same again this is just the beginning side they have a strong takes exactly the opposite point if she sticks up for the American Press that dont belong say the 1st street from persuade every politician looks like incompetent idiots he created 3000000 jobs in june in the middle of the pandemic well thanks hello its always good to get a country point of view there but it does mean a doctor part it can kind of exit a medical school i think were 20 Years Experience in Infectious Disease control he worked as a consultant in communicable Disease Control for local authorities and Public HealthEngland Agency which is now being blamed by u. K. Government ministers for the failure of the test in chief he is in conversation with alex. If huge experience and Infectious Disease control please tell me why is it that in the United Kingdom the country which 180 years ago pioneered Public Health legislation theyre all for whom this is a fine its so difficult to get a grip on coronavirus i think this is a example of how low we have sunk with regards to both our National Health service and our investment in public out i mean i am one of those persons who has been in Public Health for all what 20 years and gradually slowly drip by drip we have. Made redundant experts we have this invested in it we sent most of our week out to local authorities and then the local authorities reduce the numbers further over that and in the creation from Protection Agency which was a very good idea to Public Health england we have diluted our strength and energies and this is the price we are paying today it is very very limited to build very unfortunate but lets look at the english experience 1st ministers seem to be blaming Public Health england they say theyre going to get scrap the organization as a fair criticism now i disagree i disagree and in the middle of a pandemic to cancel the very organization that the hot secular state for health is in charge of asks me to ask the question if public hell england isnt fit for purpose the head of the Public Health england eventually is the 2nd state for health and social care do so you know those are the questions to ask also furthermore this is the wary painful bit when the kind of mix starkey and of course we could not do the test and trace because we were underresourced and we didnt have the capability to do it but we went ahead and invested as time worrying amount in testing and contact raising. By products of lies if that same money had been allocated to Public Health in berlin and told. Do it get on with it create create a system nation lite i think really been done and could have been done well for some reason since march Public Health england was bypass youre right in saying that the testing was slow to get started there was slow in getting the capability but its plenty of testing in the u. K. Going or no relative to other countries why is there still a problem when theres a capability of testing it is that the tracing in the of the of the system thats failing or. Theres failures across all facets unfortunately and this so painful to note because the United Kingdom is an advanced country it has a lot of clever people in place and considering we have the armament we have the colored people we have the logistics we have everything in price we go ahead and in went a centralized system from the beginning when actually what we could out and we can do we should be doing is enabling local testing local laboratories energized to set at the testing and we take that task and we do it locally with process it locally and we communicate the results locally because were already set up to communicate this result here is one ridiculous item about it we set up a new organ testing regime and Contact Tracing will as well and they can communicate easily seamlessly with our g. P. S. And patients and others now who are in the test results invention when theyre conducted are not communicated to the people that matter and we had the systems so why not use the systems instead of create one in the middle of a pandemic so how important is local knowledge and local delivery and running an effect of testim tracing regime absolutely crucial it wont work otherwise and i have been banging on about this fall ever since it was created you need central assistance Central Support but locally deliver all of them are networked with each other and they not alive the line and they work on these things every day on other illnesses and other outbreaks and then suddenly for the biggest are now make that weve seen theyre not incrementally mock its ridiculous for office that this is a condition of puts that as no cure at the present mormon. But we thought can this is like that in the past to be diseases footsore were no cure for and we had Public Health prevention methods how could the whole body of knowledge and understanding be lost it is not lost its just that were not using it properly weve got experts locally nationally and International Experts in our country and for whatever reason which is hard to understand and explain there has been a narrow focus from the experts advising the government the experts advising the government if you look at their make up a lot of them world market lawyers and scientists and social scientists but very few very very few if any well hands on outbreak specialists i didnt see the name of anyone who has actually hands on outbreak of any sons locally out of National Interest no one they will all claim we have been involved in outbreaks my question is how many of you have actually led on a large equal i operate a large salmonella outbreak or any of that in the last few years now well there in the past this is like tuberculosis or smallpox i was that dumb there that were the bill of the cat sort of things like that that i was tested tracing doesnt these great Communicable Diseases of the past so with respect to the are you better close is we still do with the tried and trusted. Identify the patient get to know the patient well get underneath the skin of the patient as a calm my students youve got to understand your patient having understood your patient you know then on earth from who their contacts are where do they grain who do this socialize weight where do they work who do they go out when they have social networks in other words youre almost be friending the patient. And then you send out your army of colleagues to pull in all those contacts of that case and you can do that rightly if you know the law of the land and the same applies which we used to do when smallpox was here we used to test and release to trace and when people floundering and there was something very complicated it i remember myself calling my senior colleagues in colander lance and this is a little bit complicated can we have a discussion and somehow we let go of all that expertise that we were always high. Were told that a new up might be the magic bullet the have some 4 how do you rate these these ups the one that was try the name of white a new one which is also being tried that they were white and theyll swear how do you rate them as a tool and could they save the day. Not on their own no way they are a additional aid to Contact Tracing they are not on their own. Magic bullet that we are led to believe so you really need that local import as well as that application if and when it works now with respect to the application again i remember saying it clearly that a centralized application will have a lot of people will not adhere to wanting that application because youre collecting too much personal data centrally and google plus apple for the 1st time ever joined out to create a decentralized application and i again and back will why dont we just use something that world explosive have developed why go around developing your own when you can use what arlen has got theyve got a very good up nation also running why are we insisting on making our own dr frank fania would you say actually possible to contain this virus while others might weigh from and pubs. Open many people are arguing that these 2 things are incompatible you cant in the 100 contain the virus and not the other hand provide a setting where a virus more clearly thrive and be a heightened infectious that you are not compatible its as simple as that we are killing ourselves by saying on the one hand open up the cards the restaurants the businesses and life as normal and on the other hand weve got the wires inside you lation if we had adopted the new zealand style approach of we wish to eliminate it hard and fast and early as soon as it appeared we would be in a better position similarly weve had smaller countries tiny tiny tiny country countries like their items so they also have a 0 code policy which is we dont want to live with any case. And new zealand the same way so in answer to your question the 2 are not compatible what we have to do is aim for we wish to eliminate it from britain and if youre going to eliminate it there will be some hard things to do and once youre done you have to contain it but if you carry on carry on with business as normal open up the pubs and continue with interactions with public human beings then im afraid it is not possible to also say we are in control. Join us after the break ill continue this discussion of thought for part of the universe they have a look at these International Examples of. Trade and investment to become magic spells to conjure economic development. Most people think about trade they think about goods and services being exchanged between countries and the invest for child care of a trade agreement is about something very different but what when investment leads to toxic manufacturing the destroys sacred sites all ruins the environment. That means if local communities that are being poisoned the thing object if they do anything that the company feels is interrupting their profits they can they serve. Multinationals are taking on the whole nation Philip Morris is trying to use i. S. T. s to stop the oracle way from implementing new tobacco regulations aimed at cutting domestic smoking rates a French Company sued egypt because egypt resists minimum wage democratic choice over trump Corporate Law to join us as we try to find out for the heart of. The world is driven by. Shaped about one percent of those but. The dairy thinks. We dare to ask. Such a stress to no longer post this or that the british and the bill of voted out that it will. Stop the show so i go straight to the statistical deceased m. P. So i pushed quite a shock. Which is you dont have one plan and look what youve seen in the best teacher for a moment in there for sure you. Want to go to the show through my its your bonus for trivia you. Kids are mr hazlewood supporter until the little. Boy does this interview but you believe that its a studio actually the person to be vocal for should step up and speak. Spiced shes. Welcome back alex is in conversation with dr bodett been kanya about the problems being expedience with operating an effective test and chasing system on qubits across the u. K. Dr pratt honey lets look at the detail of these International Examples of some countries been able to deliver some countries of struggle to. The countries that took early decisive actions have done a great job lets start with south korea so when things happen in china and the cases started to appear in south korea they unleashed and arming our huge army of testers and contact races and they had the compliance of occupation they had the will of the government and the had the armaments ready the testers and the conduct raises and they might if you look at the graph it is amazing how they just managed to flatten it quickly another example poor countries where. Similar things and the group in the control new zealand is a marvelous example of where they took early decisive actions in saying we will import 0 coli in our country so they drew a net around the country and they they suppressed the case numbers hard and fast and early and they got a result the United Kingdom game up the truth is we gave up sometime in march who say containment is not not on the possible and now in september we are still trying to contain seoul we gave up really and even germany did a wonderful job in europe they had a good policy of testing. Contact tracing and better still now well monitoring the our patient at home and when they found that their patients were should we say showing more signs of illness they took them out to hospital early and as a result of taking their patients to hospital early they had a much lower tax rate of course they didnt make the huge mistake of also introducing infections in the Residential Homes which really mean our getting a doctor prachanda our final question well lets just say i have the power of to appoint you as the new site to state for health but id be strongly tempted to do so but lets say. You were the new broom which was coming and to sweep clean what would be your your 4 c. Is a fraction to get this virus and infection under control i would bring together all my local networks we already have existing experts locally and i would want to invest in my new public how england rather than create new systems thought about how they are of actual universe to thank you so much for joining me on the alexander show thank you so problem still a bind across the u. K. And the contrast is often drawn with more effective systems of Disease Control in asia however much closer to home that is an example of a tiny county which has tackled the Community Transmission of covert 1000 not once but twice alex is joined by 2 people instrumental in the Success Story christina half a same piece and dennis christianes then head of department and researcher at the feet of the spirit and veterinary authority. Christina hospice and dr christensen welcome to the examine show. Thank you very much. When we last spoke in the program the fearless had a stablished a virus free status youve got a hold of the few cases you had the new monies to plant them but since then the been some plus those have reimagined than the in the fadeaway ellens hope you dealt with these yes the parents were mown the 1st nations in the world to become 1003 and we didnt have a positive case for more than 3 months actually but unfortunately here in august we had a new outbreak and its has been quite a big outbreak but we have handled it by using the tool that we also used back in march with mass test think tracing and 1000 people so at the moment it seems like we have gotten the situation under control not to christianes some human the man who suggested to the feelies authorities what lets use the some a lot of clues to give us the Testing Capacity to test a substantial part of our population what are you confident the facility would what of this new virus speed up the outer order that was established to get us or go bad thats maybe. 5 to track viruses and athletic sam and metaphor i would oratory it doesnt matter if the cops stop some calls from the jumps off or if calls from patrol person here at the college east its pretty much the same in our hands you know mccain we have changed to tweak some some virus or if human minds. We can switch between those different assets so thats like using the not so resources of the of the pharaohs to deploy to protect the human population that would give you a capacity to test the a huge proportion. If the the growth of the small familys population at the moment we have you have to be on our insecurity about the Profit Company to win this thing and i actually can do up to 45 percent of the nation or baby if you were 24 already ok so so. So so be trying to stop the high proportion of the various nations also part of the success that they have. Equal to to combat this this outbreak so so refined efficiency its not over yet because there are positives out there that they had dropped out very fast job the last couple of base there must be still half was getting people test is only one puff of the story if then youve got to contain the renewed clusters whats the familys approach being 2 to tracing and to and to isolation of the potential contacts. Yes youre right alex testing is one thing but tracing is just as important if you want to stop an 8 break so all the people who have tested positive. And have you can say interviews with our Health Authorities and together they have found out where have they been the last couple of days which people could they have been contact with and then tortillas have a contact at all the people who have been in contact with people who tested positive and put them into 2 weeks quarantine. Because even though people may test negative after a few days they may test positive so tracing people were up in the concept of people who were infected and putting them into 2 weeks pointing is of litle and i could add that the last couple of days most of the new cases have been people that already were in quarantine so this just tells us how important this not just to test but also to trace and to put people into quarantine if you really want to start on the outbreak of what if 11 the 1st of the half of the infection got back into the field it was after limits and there were parts of the year how did these clusters were mad was that tumors or more of the Fishing Community are hoping to get back into the islands. We knew that when we chose to be open our borders back in mid june that it was a risk but we chose to test all travelers who had arrived in the pheromones and that her separate checked the us until august it seems that one traveler has tested negative at the airport but still has been positive after a couple of days and unfortunately that person has been able to infect others looking at the fearless experience of the sheer what does a small country like the fearless have to teach the large of countries who have struggled much much more with the virus and knew how what are your experience could be applied to to the larger countries of the world. I think that you have to act locally and you have to give at the local communities and the 3rd tools to do find a solution start fit to those areas. And for example in scotland it will be very good if the islands that have their strategies open it comes to acting on if there is a new outbreak but also when it comes to reopening the islands because things can be so very different from for example edinburgh to to the Shetland Islands what is the right thing to do and for us its spent why though to have our own strategy and have our own tools also or oratory are Skilled Staff and to be able to ask because if we were to. After in the same way as for example denmark or if we had to send our all our testing material to a brought it would take days before we got the results and we would not be able to contain the wires like we had and. So its important that you can have a strategy that fits locally definitely so the message from the fabless local it to confront a global danger christin a half force doctor christiane some thank you so much for joining me on the alex aman show. Thank you. At least in the western world the United Kingdom is the home of Public Health legislation to meet the challenges of Infectious Disease in overcrowded cities of the Industrial Revolution the 1st Public Health legislation was passed in 840 s. To tackle the deadly conditions of cholera yellow fever and tuberculosis these early campaigners realized the prevention business a city where there was no cure and the Public Health act was passed by the liberal government of lord john russell where there was a cure for various deadly conditions like smallpox vaccination was made compulsory in 851 with that heritage and Public Health 2nd to none and with still largely integrated tell services it is astonishing that the u. K. Has not better prepared to meet the admittedly tough challenges of calling a virus on the control of the corporate disease scotland wales and ireland to fared somewhat better than england but not by much the reality is all of the home nations have struggled the tiny pharaohs give us a clue as to why effect this Public Health systems have always been delivered look leigh and that Key Community knowledge is the secret to stamping out the embers of any clusters if the fatal system had been run from copenhagen denmark it would not to be an effective move to centralization of Public Health organization across the u. K. That may not have helped in the development of a Rapid Response to corona virus an Infectious Disease control local information and the speed of response which comes with it is more valuable than that provided by any app however useful a functioning online tool would be perhaps in Public Health the key to success is to look cool to face down in a Global Challenge for knife from alex myself and all that the show is good 5 stacey and we hope to see you all again next. Is your media a reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe. Isolation community. Are you going the right way or are you being. What is true what is faith. In the world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Or and maybe in the shallow. Throughout its history to harvest with the selfproclaimed Islamic State terrorist group of recruiting up to 30000 foreigners from all over the world to fight for them. In. Sounds of russian citizens left their country to join the terrorists often bringing wives and children with them. Hundreds of children and widows were held captive all disappeared. Its nice. To see. Russia childrens families with such a. Small scale lambaste berlin for failing to provide any evidence for germanys claim that russian opposition figurehead i would say not only was poisoned with a chemical durbidge of. The people there was any data we would work with and there is no data there are only statements amounting to megaphone diplomacy. Also this hour the u. S. Says they Wont Take Part in an international cooperated effort to develop a covert backseat because its led by the world health organization. And washington has impose sanctions on senior officials at the International Criminal court after it started probing alleged u. S. War atrocities