Hello and welcome to crossfire all things are considered im Peter Lavelle this spiral downward depending on who you believe in the media the civil unrest in america is the result of systematic racism this explains protests and rioting but it does it the commanding heights controlling the Financial System media and the Business World are loath to admit it its the economy stupid for them race always trumps. To discuss this and more im joined by my guest Jason Nichols in able to consider. He is a professor of africanamerican studies and in new york we crossed to Margaret Kimberly she is the editor and senior columnist at the black gender report as well as the author of the book prejudicial black america and the president s are right process rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate ok was 1st go to margaret here in my introduction i said that race always trumps class and if you look at Mainstream Media particularly the liberal media that is the message you get over and over and over again that worse remarkably we actually are still in the middle of a pandemic. Tens of millions of people have lost their jobs weve seen acts of congress and the inaction of a president the people that have the most money are protected and now we have this horrific death of george lloyd which i think it was very i was very pleased that there was a universal virtually universal reaction to this this is this was an atrocity but that seems so long ago when we think of the of the riots and continued protests and the actions of the president here but the messages are always on race and i think thats misguided because at the end of the day this is a class issue it always is a class of go ahead well you know in the end you as a race determine what class one is in we cant say theres no clean dividing line in this country and floyds death is something that happens every day to a black person by the way every day to 3 people in this country an average of 3 People Killed by the police and racism is a big part of that so this story begins with racism and racism thats practiced all the time mostly against black people but i think the reaction to it as you say there were both and was universal and i think the protests. Obviously were sparked by his killing but i think they are sustained in growing because of anger about many things in this country people are suffering people are struggling it is something that is almost for been to talk about its not an issue in politics the Corporate Media doesnt say anything about it we already had an economy that was not doing as well as we were told when we speak of jobs growth its low wage work its getting work its all its not anything that its not living wage were so people were already struggling and now more than 30000000 are unemployed as a result of the pandemic any shutdowns of the current teens so i think there are people who are angry about a lot and while the killing of this man was the spark and there would be im sure a reaction across the country but it has sustained in small mentum because of the insecurity that people feel and the anger they have which is rarely. Now in it because i mean as we spoke right before this recording is that you know i think all across the country obviously this was a catalyst theres no doubt about that ok. But you know that the phrase i cant breathe and i think that that that that goes across race because i think what the media does in the Political Classes they dont want to talk about the structural deficiencies of the economy why they are there are so many low paid jobs ok for example again this is direct this one to the democrats why are so many cities so badly brahmin rundown ok and taking responsibility for that is well so is jason i guess im going to throw to you what i said in the introduction about systematic racism that does that theres a. Race always trump. Class in american politics. Well again you know i would echo everything that m. R. Who just said i think she said it very eloquently in terms of race and class intersecting of course theres no question that there are poor white people and that you have outliers a well to do black people but i would also add when we connected to the unrest that we seen i dont know a black man and i know poor black people i know working class in the middle class and i know very well to do black people and i dont know one africanamerican man who doesnt have a story about an encounter with the police so some of this actually does transcend class when i go out you know i generally im not wearing a shirt and tie and you know one would think i used that they you know i would age out of certain encounters with the police and you know in my early fortys and you see george ford was 46 walter scott was in his fiftys so again this is something that for black men seems to transcend age it seems to transcend class so i think a lot of people you know when they saw george floyd they saw their fathers you know women you know washing say women i should say partners saw their partners their husbands in george floyd and we cant forget that these are things are happening to black women as well with Briana Taylor and you know many of the other cases of black women who have suffered at the hands of police so i think that while we can talk about the class impact of course theres been a serious impact more on working class communities and while we talk about george floyd we shouldnt necessarily think that these are the George Floyd Protests these george floyd was just the straw that broke the camels back if you look at what the police were doing in york city they were going to. Now during this pandemic and in the village and in the wealthy white or areas there were handed out masks you know when you went you know north of 96. 00 street into you know upper manhattan and it sort of rocks they were punching people in the face so i think a lot of people you know in arresting them so i think there was an explosion that was going to happen. And you know you can talk also you mention the democratic control of cities and i think that you know there is a valid point that you know some democrats have failed in their management of cities however and a lot of the cities mares are blacks its me think its be very transparent but then in some cases even the Police Chiefs are black but what im saying is a lot of this is systemic and when you have a system it doesnt necessarily White Supremacy a systemic so you dont necessarily its not about whos at the head of the system and in addition the states like of course in the Baltimore Area but the state is run by republicans and with their funding it depend on the state when we vote in the senate races and we go to market right now and then if we get in if its so literally black and white a lot about broken americans participate in the political process in this systematic racism i mean you know Police Chiefs and counselors and all kinds of things like this and then they need they need then it becomes very political because then you have i think in the state of washington you know its basically its ok to write its ok to destroy property but not much and in a certain level i think all this kind of agree with that but if you destroying property of a person of color then started a business its their whole life its that you know thats it and then it goes right back to an economic issue go ahead yeah well this you know the Political Leadership though our own status and even the. Black mayors the democrat here in new york city mayor pro bill de blasio liberal mayor. But they often come back on the same pro status meant troops when Something Like this happened so over the weekend too there were 2 incidents of Police Vehicles driving into a crowd of protesters and a blasio he backtracked later but a furphy descended the police the center of your tax Research Backing everyone. He made statements in favor of them and the police hate him despite all his genuflecting thats another issue but most of these mayors are pro establishment and they work within the system that the larger system that as we just talked about doesnt work for anybody so they and the do i believe republicans and democrats that also is not always not such a clean dividing line to do as he has gotten in trouble for taking Campaign Money from anybody from everybody so we see in new york politicians like our mayor bill de blasio who markets themselves as a liberal that was his whole Campaign Slogan a tale of 2 cities he was going to do better for working people in so forth he made a big deal about having an interracial family but when this demonstration started he turned into stems from an hour titian again very pro police even after police broke into a crowd 2 instances of that he defended them then he had to backtrack now theres a curfew. Last night you had a curfew in new york you have to be inside by 888 pm or we can be arrested so a lot of these labels. Democratic politicians are not any being that we can see in this really let lets talk about labels here jason what is the difference between. Prospects of protesting and rioting and looting because i see the liberal media really you know its. Basically peaceful protesting but then theres tons of footage of extreme violence and looting and destruction and me it seems to me that theyre trying to invent language in a normal well in ways that basically everythings fine and everyones just im doing what theyre doing now you cant ever get responsibility had were not i think that there we definitely need to draw a distinction between destruction of property and violence. The president named for example when his were proper marks him into violet alter cations and one where he said that this man had been beaten within an inch of his life. But neglects to say is that that man ran out into the middle of the street with a samurai sward you know and got beat up and you know while thats a tragic encounter its not this you know helpless person or this person just standing in front of their business he went out he engaged the protesters with a weapon and you know caught them you know the short end of the stick. I do think that there is a difference between you know an uprising which is whenever there is an oppressive authoritarian force and people have a political response to that whether its organized or disorganized that is an uprising thats literally the definition of it runs when you look at whats happening for many people and thats not all of the people who are out there because there are some people who are doing this for their own purposes but the majority other people who are out there are i think even the ones who are engaging in destruction of property are carrying out an uprising of the. No not today were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on race and class with our. If you go to the symphony orchestras warming up and each musician is is tuning his or her instrument so you hear this and now youre all these sounds of noise about it but its its a constant a its disorganized and then the the band the orchestra plays and you get up music so what the brain does and what the maker 2 mules do is organize or orchestrate to use one collapses. Welcome back to cross the where all things are considered to mind you were discussing race and class. Mother let me go back to you i mean we were talking about in the 1st part of the program the difference between protesting in writing and there are so many different motives people may have i mean i dont think people were thinking and i hope people werent you mr floyd when they were stealing night he shoots ok i hope thats not the case but i have i have to agree with jason when hes talking about the uprising but then again that means something to different people is well ok and when i think one of the saddest things that poisoned our politics is it all busts and i think the media does this it was we have preconceived ideas about other people about white where theyre from way they look and this is kind of neat jerk reaction and you know what it is its fear on all sides and i think that is whats really sad here and i will not back away that this is a class issue because there is so much pressure on the middle class the middle class is been decimated and whats really sad and i think this is actually proven is that since the Civil Rights Movement so many people of color were able to move into the middle class and have that great to be. The dream that we all have about middle class america because it was a middle class country its no longer a middle class country underclass and a very very small a small group of very powerful rich people that have congress in their pocket do you agree or disagree but lets absolutely true living wage work has been decimated in this country as something that black people depended upon to be able to buy homes and send their kids to college all of those markers that we think of as being middle class which is a kind of amorphous. Term that it makes you feel good president and makes you feel you thats your cause. But its the people at the top who you mentioned who are responsible for this destruction the finance capitalists decided that we didnt need to make anything in america anymore. And so these manufacturing jobs disappeared their whole portions of this country and im in western europe by birth and. Yes and every time i visit family in the midwest in ohio and other states it looks worse and worse and worse. And so now we have but its never acknowledged its never talked about politicians dont mention it because they rely on people who give them money they dont care a Corporate Media they dont care they are rather elite institutions they dont have any connections with working people they dont cover working people they need to have a labor beat anymore. So we have these people who are treated as if they dont exist and i also think that its not uncommon actually for protest to begin over some very bright his issue people have well founded righteous indignation but it sets off a lot of emotions there people who. You know the not the heads for lack of a better term who will take. Vantage just because people are out into the streets and inspires positive a lot mostly positive i would say a lot of negative too but i think we have to remember this all started with great injustice and everyone should be working to stop this system that puts 2000000. 00 people in jail george fluid was arrested because of a 20. 00 bill that was allegedly counterfeit that puts people in jail and americans love to talk about human rights everywhere else in the world but you cant have 2000000 people in jail and talk about human rights abuses everywhere else so i think there has to be a discussion about all of this all of these things that we talk about when people are needs are acknowledged i think. And when people institutions like the police are kept in check i think so much of what weve been discussing can be you know jason money looting abhorrence and were to any and doing to macys fine they got their insurance theyre all covered ok its the Small Businesses and its the mom and pops at it and are breaking for me here but you know when people bring up the issue of looting i think about a different kind of looting ok i think about the looting of the middle class for 40 years ok and i really find it really rich when it comes to media figures and hollywood types of ok when they find on when theyre basically thoughts in my opinion that they dont add any ok its all hurt you signally but you know the media it and i go back to it is it you know if they if its race race race race everythings races but you know what is it it hurts everyone when you have when you hollow out the middle class again the middle class in my mind is a place for all and thats why. We find our great strength ok and when you hollow that out it hurts everyone here and again the media covers this looting thats going on and we in this stimulus bailout just another huge transfer well upwards and now we have we basically have a civil war or a revolution against the working people from the top down you agree with that or now so i agree with with many elements of what you said. First of all i do agree with something you said earlier and that is that middle class is kind of this you know and i maybe as margaret said it is more focused and may not even exist i think it was the playwright August Wilson who said if you cant quit your job today and live at the same standard of living for 2 years then your core and you know i know me you know i it you know im live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood but if i would have who was my my Employment Today you know next month im scrambling you know to me and 3 months you know probably out of my year so i think that there is. You know this this idea that theres this middle class and 80 percent of americans or 85 percent i believe of americans identify as middle class now you want to tell us there are a lot of poor people because we demonize poverty itself that you know that theyre like im poor you know there was. Middle class there was a joke by. The great comedian eddie murphy where he talked about everybody was poor neighborhood but if you can afford to get that ice cream you know to me and you know the other kids your got ice cream your moms all welfare you know when they all lived in the same community you know i mean they are had pretty much the same Family Structure you know everybody was poor but because you couldnt afford ice cream that day. You know all of a sudden you were somehow worse you know jason i lived in a Small Community outside of Denver Colorado and it was lily white but the same issue of club the same exact may apply right there margaret and mary ok in again you know losing your job poverty its a shameful element of American Culture here but you know you know if youre told you cant work you cant go to work you cant murder living for yourself and your family then then again i criticize the structural deficiencies of the economy if youre telling people you cant go to work then you better you have to compensate them ok but no thats not what the 1200. 00 check or whatever you know thats going to pay off debt thats not going to put food on the table here up in the absence of that any interest in the in the concerns of the conditions of the middle class and working people i find abhorrence and theres nothing out there to change it because were all focused on race race breaks go ahead mark youre like well there are if. Youre lucky if you know and if you black people suffer the most because youre less likely to have Family Wealth to have assets were more likely to spend upon a salary and if anything happens to that sound we are in very very deep trouble and the fact that they do not believe the Political Class the people who go through the motions of opposing each other that they decided 1200. 00 was the maximum for any anyone in this country regardless of circumstance it tells you where we stand the minimum wage hasnt gone up for years and the democrats the 1st 2 years obama was in office and democrats controlled everything they didnt do anything about it either so we are living this Dystopian Nightmare where we are told that our problems dont exist theyre not. Theyre not talked about. People campaign for office pretending that they care. About us and then they wonder why only half the public bother to show up tomorrow and the state of california in the state of california at local politicians are almost 0 universally elected on health care for single payer and when they get the power i mean its the peoples republic of california for gods sake and they still wont do it they still did all they did to do it and then when they get power oh we dont have the money and that is the myth that has been exploded by this endemic and this crisis theres tons of money when you want something ok but if youre going to give people a step up across the board the middle class they just deny jason last 30 seconds go to you im sorry go well the only thing that i want to say is that it is adding to what marc rich has stated and that is that there is a difference between being american middle class and being black american middle class i think that those are 2 very different constructions for example in boston massachusetts the media Household Income or the median Household Net Worth is 247000. 00 for africanamericans in that same area its 8. 00 so again you see the stark difference where people are or worse you know what they have in their wallet versus people who have homes you know homeownership 40 percent for africanamericans were at a red or a 50 year low right now 40 percent for africanamerican 70 percent for a reason are almost out of time and i am not going to contest anything you said but you know im really tired of rich white liberals saying well at least im not racist ok and then that this cleans their conscience addressing the structural you can i. Problems of the United States and thats all the time we have here margaret and i want to thank jason for being on our program what i think our viewers are watching us here are remember. The oprah show here they have so being used. For. Free. I just cant do a pretty good. Yes. So it is. Just there to give the orders for. These other stories of men who cant imagine life without fashion without a sense of style without things that might be seen as weakness in this masculine world but they still demonstrate incredible strength of spirit to live as they choose. To call them talents of a group of years of use. For. You know we look at the solutions we look take a deep dive into the issues theyve been chatting about all year now today were going to be talking with more also known as n l w of the breakdown of caste and following him on twitter for a long time plus into his cock asked the other great thing about this all new universe is that people who might not get on media get on and then they rise to the top and suddenly theyre like wow these people are awesome and i was and i failed in that camp. In the troubled 19 seventies a group of killers rampage street thugs of Northern Ireland that was coordinated loyalists atomics particular population tens of were forced to flee their homes and what was striking to put these attacks was a fear you see the Police Actually took part in the attacks so instead of preventing they were active participants in the burning of the streets in belfast i think more than a 100 innocent civilians with. The review can seniors and we found out more i was surprised about the extent and its occurrence which the collusion was involved in some of those cases. Would lead to be named. And i think it went to do very very top i think. It was where. You. Give the go ahead. Protests turned violent as demonstrators defy a curfew in the u. S. City of does come after police there allegedly paralyze a black man after shooting him in the back while i run the u. K. The black lives Matter Movement also reappears in the headlines there is the b. B. C. Temporarily scraps in the richford to colonial era songs we put up at about. The front were an Unequal Society and a deeply Racialized Society you know its one of the places in the black and brown be deleted