A different way and then former liberal democrat president ial candidate land or pick pick i wonder if that they view ends and be more of the same he looks like the favorite because hes had a lot more coverage because hes been knocked in leader but in actual fact they dont orange should win because shes really the only person i have to say whos got a chance of becoming the posse if you really pin me down my moneys on lay them around because i think all the students say way. All that to come but 1st your tweets emails and messages on last weeks show on the arts in lockdown which featured. For dale 1st joe says i really love this week sure about the future and laughed out loud funny story about the vehicle with their 784 local bank through the whole team keep up the good work or thank you and keep watching richard says just watch the interview with alex semin to speak about god for dells interview great to hear about your work jumping arts in scotland and establishing a National Theatre agree with your criticism of Edinburgh Festival night dominated by comedy and commercial interests it urgently needs an overhaul fraser says its quite a relief the Edinburgh Festival is not on its so peaceful here it is exhausting hitting the doing edge of a bra now also says if fine example in further interest and encouragement in this field much attention has always been given to the to it as an industry that is of course the real task ahead in the rebuilding of industrial workplaces that once were right he says i took spanish friends last year it was dreadful we couldnt walk couldnt find a place to eat or sit they had a very bad impression of. Dave says i beat a file of the Edinburgh Festival and have introduced many of my friends and family to it its north toward raymond says it was there last year for the festivals loved it one of my best vacations ever and finally i aberdeen see great to see the edge of festivals continuing as an online. But night for the liberal democrats alex is joined by the former party leader serpents capel. To assess horsleys for the liberal democrat leadership better than former party leader since cable who joins me from his home in twickenham events welcome to the 08 some im sure. Davy both of them do you when youre a liberal Democrat Little you know them particularly well i would just say the contrasting so. Styles in the strengths and weaknesses of both candidates well i think that both strong and you know will be well served whichever the whens i mean out at davy obviously has they experienced a member of the cabinet looked after environment heavily into prime and change negotiations things about kind knows a lot of economics mcgann are good good economic background layer is is different she came in after at a coalition a completely new generation very fresh approach and interesting right cosmopolitan background and i have mother who is palestinian shes in a result you know quite a lot of not you know out with looking International Way of looking at the well and shes buildout in the last 3 years on education shes very strong on education issues its all levels and will approach things in a fresh and different way. You get a feeling for of who might be ahead in the race thus far out of you by thing any particular candidate not having come committing myself either way i dont think as a leader its helpful but sometimes no i i doubt be with either of them i would guess a david has some in the advantages because hes been around a while Everybody Knows him in the party latest trying to make themselves known that me out there but the thing with the sporting charm city is of course a very our north adopts a system of leadership prostate is entirely down the remote rate so we dont normally have. Its been quite difficult to generate a huge amount of publicity for the leadership contest id say the party ranks the self did you think that thats a feature of the Global Pandemic a audit as a more a commentary on the other party only having 11 m. P. s but its a mix of both but the biggest challenge was in the same challenge i have but its now worse is that the partys breaking through 3 you know really bad elections 1517 and last year has been knocked back and i think mr chicory hard lost time because we built up sent me in the last stages when i was leader to a good position about 20 percent in the polls we were doing well in the government in the year elections and we slumped again and picking our peoples in iraq in those circumstances is really very difficult so i dont envy the new leader its a major task and of course you have this additional problem that if you have a small number of m. P. s you get very little attention in town and 6 difficult to be cold in a way very much to false prophecy after your proxy and in parliamentary terms its also difficult to get into the media so its its going to be a very difficult job i found it hard enough but theyd modestly 70 you passed all the Great Electoral success that you had as leader only a year ago in the european elections where you were 20 percent of the vote came 2nd in the polls labelled the tories what absolutely no where. Theres any forethought a few big. Staying on the taking advantage of the platform and and leaving the past into the last general election. Well i think we will have mixed feelings about these things and ive made a conscious decision i want to cheer pass on to the next generation and get on with not i can do anything richard what im doing now but yeah i see. Sometimes think there you know if ive been there i wouldnt have done this i would not down that bet and i think whoever had been leader we were going to have problems in that december election now actually one of the fractures in interest very powerful in the kind of children leading areas they named live stock and thats you know different politics but with a massive deterrent to practice and mr cosby in you know i got down off to do a people saying we got to vote for you agree with you and youre a weak white guy your crops say that were not going to risk having that not running the country and now unfortunately you know really did for a squad a lot of damage but no one ever been leader and would have had to contend with what was that a moment last year in the aftermath of this johnsons defeat in may and the Supreme Court when his policy on parliament was the clear unlawful when his government was rocking what was there any moment there where an anti blacks a coalition could have been brought together with a of the flexibility and the and change the course of history or do you think that it was an illusion that that could have happened well there was a kind of and she breaks it coalition you know we Work Together i Work Together very roadway for environment and the russian nationalists there im not the greens now this story depicted as we had a very good operation about that there wasnt in not hostile. Mention actually behind they the idea of a new a referendum on the on the outcome they negotiate exact was the critical thing and that was in large part because there was a substantial body of labor m. P. s maybe fake joining the call going in south was ambiguous excon and we just didnt have enough to get that over going on in the unfortunately that was a critical thing and with some level. A moment where a compromise candidate as an end to the Prime Minister kevin clash failure could have been a phone call was that something ruled out by the labor party while the liberal democrats were ruling out jeremy carbon what was them nothing could have been done to given the proximity of brechts the john snow to doning state while you had the chance i think that was the signal of the right light certainly played with it now i argued for it no once of this did some good i can plug them in the well this that he is a superb character who wasnt a party leader to get commanded prosperities book that was in the need the solution i think there was a genuine problem with the labor party if that means there was a very Public Relation by government that privately they might settle that there are certain we you know my Parent Teacher got quite a strident position of not having the labor leader and i think if we could have got that neutral 3rd party to go ahead leader that we might have made some headway on that and i think historians will focus on that particular point that was there was a point at which the Campaign Starts the regular way and those are the enthusiasm in the run up to the general election from the liberal democrats and indeed the s. N. P. Thats their have an election but the end game is the johnsons and domingue state with 80 seat majority in the can basically do a likes to say these are were fighting state of course but with that hate and say that probably wasnt the wisest election to be forced ever it wasnt i mean i think i could understand why your proxy for string election and they were in and doing doing very well in the polls in scotland. I think out case it probably was a mistake we could have come back and try to modify the legislation on the treaty as it went through parliament. I think if we made one big mistake it was calling for revoke an hour i mean i mean we all agreed that in the final analysis revocation was the thing to do that rueful as a campaigning is here it wasnt right. Great campaign for 2 years on getting the referendum we should have stuck with that i think a lot of people were aware of the parts off and we are in the correct tray idea of just kerry sneering way that arts referendum having is one of the mistakes that some of our campaign has made and how should the potty approach but i accept no no that this as happened legally and is about to happen economically i mean whats in the past these authors youve done the deed the the 2 candidates the leadership of the host the deal with the the blacks the issue now well i think you know the shouting about it probably isnt helpful at nobodys listening on that certainly on the on the side people made up their minds the thing is gone through its all fillet easy to sound you know sob rapes backward looking i think well well i would like to say that they believe this do is to sketch out a kind of a future which is here opinion but isnt just talking back to the owner arrangements and that i think we will see in the next 5 to 10 years. An approach within europe which ally was certain countries to go its a different speed i know this is often they discuss macron his has advocated it that countries that are not toxic they have monetary the and have no intention of vain but nonetheless wish to play out an Important Role in europe from them probably are able to get back to a kind of norwegian type close straight integration i mean i think thats thats the frame in which pro europeans and i think in your party as well it would probably be proud comfortable with that kind of position. Think about that after the break for more from both cable as he and alex discuss the liberal democrats contest for a new leader with the that. Odd no no crowd. No shots no. Action ill speak. With well its true no 1st what. Point should your thirst for action. Spring come into this those folks going to. Fall. For most from not in the early 1970 s. How much can pluck a psychologist in 6 only just proposed to the west but in senate a social experiment he wanted to let paedophiles adopt and care for neglected boys experiment was a. Good model. On which you want your. Girls jump to change the believe that sex with older men would help with the boys socialization over 30 years many children were handed paedophiles to raise just to mention who pushes a little hard more than the dogs in cars over those chores looks like in the good old beliefs boyfriends or she didnt just fall for good mr someone turned over to. Welcome back alex talks to form a liberal Democrat Party leader servants cable. Phones cable is the strategic difficult to the liberal die. Of the keir starmer as i did paddling the labor Party Without the feeling of not this but use of the Center Ground the politics which decreases the the openings that the liberal democrats would have if the labor party were positioned much further to the left is that a key strategic difficulty in the house should either of the leadership candidates seek to tackle that now i see it as an opportunity rather than as a defeat as i as i explained earlier i think one of the reasons a lot of our putative supporters backed off was because of fear of a hard left labor government and i think if you have a labor leadership which is your lets have a look around you know care sit down there i think 70 comes internet cafe agree that there are parts of the of the Country Park Service of england and of states in scotland where. You know people will go to the lib dems and want to go and where labor are not serious competitors around thinking my own seat you know right now a big jurisich but there are lots of other places around in the south of making and you know the guilt for the winter stirs which didnt go last time which would go next time some of the suburbs have a bunch of stir. Era go in yorkshire places like that you know maybe there are 3030. 00 plus states which we could weigh in. With anyway that way complementary to the labor party rather than competitive. I think that happens you know you got serious numbers for an alternative government. Is there in 1970 and thats how many of us got tens of problems in the 1st place you could do a revolution it was a complementarity with the labor party rather than competition you see a fight over their servants cable one that message of the future through a dent to 5 for some of the the new stars in the the liberal democrat firmament who will take the message forward and what would you say to them given your experience in politics will be your message to the rising stars of liberal democracy well i think you know you have to be a resilient and i think people often say dont vote so you need you know real talents and weeks and and intelligence of course those things that matter but they i think the quality more than anything that you require is stamina ability to take punishment and to keep going on and to come back that sencion simmons of my own party we got some very very good people neera will sing who you know are you know 1st i think minority candidate has come up to a general election daisy cooper in some tokens and theyre very very capable people and i think it will be in good hands so thats cable former leader of the liberal democrats demonstrate heelers life after politics thank you very much for joining us from there like salmon field thank you so so both cable pay think both leadership kind of gifts like edge to edge t. V. In the race for the liberal crowd for a rather different view alec trying to form a lead them n. P. R. And political commentator lembit of paint so who is going to win this liberal democrat race a thumb to form of liberal democrat m. P. 11 opec member whos going to when leyla vote on all ahead david. Its a day and 8 but i can give you more than just a casual course to see where that response if they had theyve un to be more of the same coming he looks like jorge but because hes had a lot more coverage because hes been Young Team Leader but in actual fact its laid out more and she should win because shes really the only person i have to say hes got a chance of becoming the party if you really penned me down my moneys on lead them around because i think of the students a way so youre backing the site of according to the betting what is the special factor you think off of the liberal democrats change lets remember that davey carries a huge amount of baggage i used to share an office with many facts and he was right down the line with the nick clegg cabal we know the nick thank about the nick like particularly destroyed the party wrote a book about this and sadly for the lib dems as truth right and just about every prediction of the other thing about a date is hes mired by the fact that he voted for fees to students direct break codes a call promised in the 2010 general election and really did for the student but the lib dems you cant get away from that fact by contrast made them around wasnt there she isnt my it by that problem and also shes quite clearly a radical left leaning libertarian shes quite characterful as well now i dont think david can offer anything new i dont dislike him hes a decent man but i dont think can offer anything new whereas lead him around might be the shots in the arm that lib dems need for a long and slow recovery oh let me put the conservation with only 11 members of parliament 5 in the Scottish Parliament one in the the Welsh Parliament dont theyre liberal they have to actually need something of a governmental experience that to give the the party somewhere doesnt have the terms of numbers they dont need some governmental experience thats irrelevant. If anything its a negative because the governmental experience that day be carries with them is the baggage of a coalition which destroyed the liberal democrats under nick clegg how does he explain why he voted so consistently with the conservatives when we know thats a big minus a big turn off for many of the traditional liberal democrat voters who deserted the posse when may felt this outed by nick cleggs on of the consent of coalition by contrast then im around is not tarnished by that brush thats remembered not tempt tyron who was recently did well specifically because he was an outsider during the coalition with the conservatives so i dont think theres any benefits or to be absolutely for them think about this any experience and benefits a sad day because with them from government is more than outweighed by the negatives for exactly the same reason that oppression a celeb opaque element on staff to their favor that davy has no replaced of in the least the bootmaker laws as the odds on favorite so he must be doing something right in this campaign and women must be doing something wrong doesnt follow. I dont think it may look morons doing anything wrong but the bias as i see it in this election is the fact that davey is repeats at the time that as the acting they dont lead or in way thanks now profile as i know for my benefit and to my cost is everything in terms of what the bookies think and it probably does help at baby with a proportion of the liberal democrat electorate but remember this is a fairly small m a truly defined group who will also say well at day he was in government and that was catastrophic for us to the an extent then a moran could went to 70 because she is the outsider youre right about the odds im not sure that im right about them or on winning but i am sure that had they the wins there wont be a huge left of the party and theyll be carrying all of that package from the coalition which theyve really got to cut through strong at davey cant do that they them around count as the big strategic difficulty for the liberal democrat says its a clear stammers obviously leading lever back to the the center to get out and hes disposing of the the call of the night baggage at a fairly rapid rate of knots doesnt not crowd out the liberal democrats room in the political spectrum isnt that a problem for both of these candidates. Yes turned to the question of spin and history records ive been tremendously good and tremendously bad at that my own career so maybe i am qualified to comment the issue here is that day the doesnt create a radical position on any score there isnt anything new about what that they can say once again i stress i dont dislike him but i just dont see a lot to me he brings to the party literally that the party hasnt already got and hasnt already suffered when it came to the coalition i look at later on shes a libertarian shes made some pretty radical comments even about sexuality all of that is quite interesting to the lib dems but sensual to all of this is later myron thanks for a self she she has been willing to take some fairly unorthodox positions in a selection now thats exciting i would summarize it like this at davey con recover the partys fortunes anytime soon probably not even a 10 year need to ship them around might its not guaranteed but she might and if there is a definite no and a possible yes i think the party should go for the possible yes. And finally a limbo as a hopeful scenario for the liberal democrats that johnson government becomes deeply unpopular theres a big on toady swing and just like 871997 liberal democrats a 40 then and constituencies wethers no credible challenge from the Labor Party Even couldnt you get a number of m. P. s and back on on labors coat tails an is not a reasonable chance of happening and in 5 years time when not they will remember the evils of the Coalition Government between the tories and the liberal democrats. The lib dems biggest hope is that forces outside their control restore the partys fortunes as youve described the best thing that can happen to the lib dems is the west wing make mountains of the country a catastrophic conservative forest Johnson Administration its sad to hope for failure to get Successful Party but were talking about facts here rather than hopes now when it comes to the question of who would benefit most from the party and not circumstance its still a limb around because they will be some people who remember that ad davy is the risk at de makes the past new could be in trying to go back into another conservative coalition because hes got form then them around hasnt so if there is a lift it would help either of those 2 as leader but it would help later around more remember the people that the lib dems need back the most are the disillusioned left wing voters at david doesnt offer them much then im around us and hes a libertarian thats been a wild card in british politics as a wild card id be willing to play when youve got that will more than a busted flush and you havent been a wild card just self a number of times lebovic thank you for appearing once again on the alex of until her. My pleasure. The liberal democrat leadership contest this taken place against the back cloth of a Global Pandemic off necessity it has been a virtual contest have a son vince cable is professionally frank when he says that even the circumstances the been difficult to sustain much excitement after all the liberals have been through 3 bruising general election contests in quick succession the last of which they did much themselves to provoke power politics is always changing the great liberal revival has been forecast many times since lloyd george left office essentially a goal but rather like the holy grail its been difficult to find and even more difficult to retain equally the equivalent and opposite suggestions of the partys imminent demise of also being greatly exaggerated the big ups and downs but theyre not dead yet and in politics with those any life a tall theres always hope and so from this we know myself and all of the show is good bye for now stay safe well see you again next week. 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The liberties still boils people take to the streets across the country with flowers and balloons becoming increasingly a regular part of the process to take you through the countrys continuing postelection plights. Is round the United Arab Emirates struck a historic peace deal with the help of the u. S. Under which israel will hold to its plans to annex large parts of the west bank. Shes the finest ever africanamerican running mate in u. S. President ial election history but come on harriss paul