Hello and welcome to cross talk were all things are considered im Peter Lavelle is there any news in the truth is there any truth in the news also what is this one creature known as Elliott Abrams say about trumps one pulse. To discuss this and more im joined by my guest alexander make euro some london he is a writer on Legal Affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran dot com and in athens were joined by olds christopher he is the director and writer for the duran dot com all right gentlemen crossed up rules in effect that means you can jump anytime you want. And i always appreciate who is going to london for us alexander during the soviet union the to the major state publication was probably his best youre proud the obviously means truth is that it means news and there was a joke during the soviet union there is no truth in the news and theres no news in the truth i think i tend to think thats where we are in the west. Where does truth meet news and does news ever have a thing to do with the truth because it is so weaponized politicise that it is just a commodity to be used for ideological purposes so what is the what is the purpose of i guess media can we even say free media anymore go ahead what i do we can say free media best the 1st place i would make i mean in my opinion media today in the west has become very very controlled its become very centralized as a very small group of owners those owners very well connected within the political system and they have certain perspectives within that political system so the result is we have a dramatic all for pain eons of commentry and of discussion and when it comes to facts what you tend to see especially on Foreign Policy issues but even increasingly on domestic policy issues is that the facts now of very very much a present in a certain way that seems to fulfill certain agendas so you will consist see that for example if a particular Foreign Government is on call could look with the United States the entire media will connell in and will repeat the various allegations against it without much truth we see the same kind of phenomena being used on specific talk peaks within the political debate in the be a we. Within western countries so the entirety of the media for example. One or 2 exceptions to the russian cape aricept hasnt withdrawn from age or back away from it and the other thing thats happened this is one of the most extraordinary and pressing things to me is that as same time as the media has become will concentrate its head and its. Various changes almost in unison it has become extremely aggressive and the language and the use that now comes out into the media is off the scale and the concept it used to be very rigidly follows a separate set separate opinion from reports she had you know the reporting of the facts which is usually salient jacksie if and then you have the opinion pages all the. Comments on the television which are always state now you repeat the reporting of the facts and hes full of the creating it and theres hardly any account separate so you bet there is no. Facts dont really matter i guess thats the thats one of the underlying principles of all sorts of fora you know i dont im im sure you saw me the full length the version of the george floyd video ok that was released a few days ago so it gives you a much broader picture of what was going on and its a more complex story than it was being presented in the initially which doesnt take away from the outcome obviously and then we havent as only generate macarius mention of the russia hoax which has been proven to be a hoax over and over again which you would know that from Mainstream Media is when fact they continued it to double down on it just in different variations of it is a hoax that will never die because its the foundational element of their world view when it comes to particularly. In domestic politics here so i mean even if you have of the facts as we would understand it of the 3 of us and our viewers that doesnt amount to much doesnt count for much does it. Make up stories and they lie and i think everyone understands the word fake news now but the problem is they never correct themselves out of a problem with making mistakes as youre reporting i get it thats going to happen but they never correct themselves so they say the lie and then they distribute that line they distribute it quickly i think this is an added danger to whats happened in the media not only do you have a centralization of Mainstream Media you have a centralization of the distribution and its very quick distribution and thats in the form of social media so you have the Mainstream Media colluding with the social media example of the george floyd tape the truth came out we got to see the whole video everyone can make up their own mind and thats great everyone can judge it as they see fit to judge it but the may stream media would not report it with the exception of maybe one or 2 late night hosts or carl segues that we exactly and the social media made sure that no one was allowed to see it the big tech social media of course we go to sites like it shoots or a parlor these alternative media see it but the you tube the twitter the facebooks they wouldnt let anyone see that tape see that video in order to make their own judgments so i mean not only do you have to make the cable news and the primetime news and the big Corporate News centralized the social media has also become centralized and theyre working together and to me peter thats been the biggest disappointment of all of this when social media came out i actually thought wow these guys could actually work as competitors to the mainstream news we twitter could. Pete with the b. B. C. Facebook could compete with fox news at the end of the day though what happened they ended up working together you tube decided to scrub and get rid of alternative news outlets and favor the Mainstream Media news you know in other words its just becoming another platform where you can watch cable news and on a personal note peter i go to sites like the usa today and theyve written articles about the duran every now and then they have me listed they actually describe me as a russian native and thats im not exaggerating a russian if i wasnt born in russia have no connection to russia of Greek Cypriots born in the u. S. So i mean thats thats the amount of misinformation yeah im i can throw out there nobody calls and ive been mentioned in the only fact of right is that i wear a boat. Ok to be curious you know i can understand what for example have a break that was it was a deeply divisive issue it was deeply political there was a lot of best interest on all sides we could look at the russia gate hoax obviously that was used as a. Weapon against donald trump and it had no foundation to it it was just a conspiracy took on its own life for political reasons but then it got worse ok i can understand partisanship i got no problem im partisan ok then why do you listen to the other side or other sides what it would happen with this pandemic i dont know what to believe about it people say its a science but most people that say its the science have no idea what science is and they have what they have their own agenda here and i think thats really been very damaging to the body politic in the west who are particularly which i know best about what can you what should you believe and can you have tolerance for people that believe differently and this is even a worse place than just partisan politics well this is exactly to go to the to the pentagon. Make ahead very clear if you said probably about the pandemic which i did expressed very clearly in various places and they are close to what we might consider to be the orthodox here but i absolutely do not believe in suppressing people who hold alternative views to me what you eat fewer jews that is that you will undermine trust and if you do it all every single tool create you will in the end undermine trust in everything i think if we look at attitudes to the media now that is exactly what is happening in the United States embrace an angel mini you discover that institutions like you know the media the big media mold is the b. B. C. M s m b c. Entities which once used to command immense trust are no longer trusted anymore and where there is no trust they cannot be proper consensus action and of course we have to understand one which is very important in democratic societies trust is essential people may disagree with the charts but they have to accept that within the political system within the political debate on a subject like the pandemic the people are acting and speak in good faith they no longer believe that if they think that theyre being merely pilates and lines to Untold Stories in order to suit agendas which solti many people say today and with gold course then you start to see an 8 humilation across lives and thats exactly whats been happening on topic after top pick up to talk it in the west ellis for that alexander here is theres something to really hear about you know. Good faith if you disagree you cannot by definition have good faith and that is a thats a one way i mean that is an open itself up to any kind of an interrogation you know what you know we used to think that you know and talk about in the manufacturing of truth but really this is the manufacturing of myths because you know it has no foundational basis so its a myth can be built upon and can be manipulated all at once and weve seen this over and over again with innumerable topics here so its really that the the manufacturers bits and you must because if you dont youre not a good faith factor faith factor they do monetize you they d. Platform you they make you disappear some of these companies go after your means of living they call after your pay pal account after your bank account i mean what alexander said in the beginning not only do they not let you absorb the news make your own decision or speak about your opinions about the news they go after you think dont agree with you and they go after your entire livelihood let me give you a going back to the pandemic let me give you an example of what twitter has done twitter came out with a statement the other day and they said that the corona any news coming out of china about the corona we do not see it as going against our terms the next day they come out with a statement saying trumps tweets about the corona violate our terms and he needs to take down that tweet. It doesnt make any sense and people see this this is the president the United States is a twitter account 606070 1000000 people fall and i dont know how many but they see this and they go what is going not something is going on with corona theyre not telling us the truth theyre lying to us they make people even more suspicious and they make people doubt the media even more and its not working in anyones favor you know its getting you have to still censor yourself now you have to i dont even know if im allowed to say corona and my lot to say it like im yes so god will bring that they believe that they can determine what truth is i mean that has been the entire experience of western civilization is the discussion about but they seem to have come to a rather easy gentlemen who did jump and you know were going to a short break and out about short break well continue our discussion on some real news they were talking. In the early ninetys. A psychologist just proposed to the west but consented to a social experiment he wanted to let paedophiles and neglected boys experiment was a. Girl to tend to believe that sex with older men would help with the boys socialization over 30 years many children were paedophiles to raise. The. Boardrooms or. Hold the person. Over to. Welcome back to crossfire were all things are considered on peter the belt to remind you were discussing some real news. Ok lets go back to london and switch gears gentlemen. In the last few news cycles we learned that Elliot Abrams is not only keeping the venezuelan desk hes been given the iran desk as well a convicted. Convicted felon lied to congress and hes elevated here i wouldnt have done this story just on Elliott Abrams because its very clear cut in my mind in the in the minds of people who watched these videos. And this program but at the same time we have susan rice being touted as a possible. All wise president ial. Position in a biden and ministration. What does this tell you that abrams is elevated and you have susan rice that has a track record of utter and complete failure on Foreign Policy so what does this say because we have a never trumper Elliott Abrams now further in bed in the trumpet ministration and we have. A former obama official there with a track record of failure that is on track now maybe not president but maybe another position in that future administration what does that tell us about Foreign Policy now what does it say about the small go ahead what he says 1st rule is that there is no punishment in the United States if you will wrong on Foreign Policy crew volume you wall wrong in a certain way if you were wrong in favor 8 regime change in other countries and aggressive economic stunts for the United States if you believe intel gets you not the country this they you all right well jeez even if theyre all you know no weapons of mass destruction in iraq even if your attempts to stage coups in venezuela are already complete failure yet even if iraq itself is a total dont buckle because if you look at 88 grams and you know can sue some qualities of course they will argue they come to this just specs and susan well i salute say shes a liberal humanitarian intervention is. Of course any 8 grams is a neo conservative interventionist the results is exactly the same. I would all like you that the United States is based interests at this point it is history ours so why dont we train shouldnt. Any pulling away from these extremely aggressive policies which you name could pull but despite the criticism these policies coming fall what we see is that people who advocate all this is in fact 2 of the most extreme that paul is is a grounds on the one so i susan rice on the other there are bound to be promoted. Right i call this the bin laden is a shed. American Foreign Policy because that you know is that very famous symptom is rather than out interagency consensus but thats exactly what it is trump has made no impact on it and it is as a as a Foreign Policy. During his own right i mean e he hired and fired john bolton hes brought in Elliott Abrams and you know with some very nuance on the margins its a its a bush obama Foreign Policy and as and it shows that it is his role as president as animals nothing to do with steering the ship of state for the United States and i think that is really pathetic because that was one of the foundations that he ran on as president and people voted for us i mean i think the disheartening part is that after bolton and the mistakes that trump made with bolton mcmasters and all kinds of and all kinds of people and now you have abrams getting elevated but i think thats thats definitely an element of having tom pale as secretary of state as trump went to reelection i expect and i expect that tom taylor will be moving on thats what i think will happen and i think a lot will change if cantelli does move on and if if trump appoints a proper secretary or secretary of state and not a neo con or near liberal like topsail then we may see some changes maybe a flim type of appointed 20 youre going to say that you know. Dont you think. We could only con we can only hope but what why should we believe that would be it wouldnt be a push back i mean i agree im saying if. If if he appoints someone on the opposite side of top and once again ill say like a flame when he 1st appointed flynn and then he got completely sidetracked when what happened to flynn happened and he went down this other road of mcmasters and pompei on all these neo cons so if he gets on track in his 2nd term and he avoids listening to the swap then we may have some hope that he male point someone that will do a better job work in the case of biden we have no hope thats my point i think with trump we do have some hope there is some hope trump hasnt gotten us into a war has the us into war he hasnt gotten the us bogged down in any major conflicts so there is some hope that if he does win a 2nd term there is a chance that pompei only and that hes done with all the Russia Ukraine gay stuff and he can appoint someone along the lines of the flynn type who may actually implement some change with biden i think theres absolutely 0 chance of seeing any kind of change in us Foreign Policy i think it will get more aggressive susan rice case in point how many times has she lived how many times that she likes the American People or under oath i mean nothing has happened to her work a life from flynn page papadopoulos stone you see what has happened today when you know the f. B. I. Has questioned them and they caught them with very vague very minor infractions so my point on all of this is with trump and why you have to vote trump is that you do have some hope that things could change with biden i think theres 0 chance that 3 and a half years ok i mean and that means something here all right i agree trying to get us and into any new wars here but its all a whole gambit against iran it is just a disaster for everybody concerned i mean look at that horrific explosion and. Beirut not for a millisecond if they did maybe we should look the same actions against lebanon so they can get out of this no not not at all ok and this is a trumpet ministration ok its not an obama its not a problem its apparent that it applied in ministration again let my point here this is like an arrow pilot here theres not much you can do about it the swamp is all powerful and they have their own lines in the media and everyone looks out for each other and that is the pathetic state of american Foreign Policy today and make your well if we if we actually look at what has happened in doha soon a half years and we dont break even by conflict might flip it was supposed to be. Green and he lasted 3 weeks he was a hand he was prosecuted its been decided by the Justice Department he was innocent after all and still hes tangles uk legal cases we had over there last year was at the beginning of this year we had colonel been talking about the interagency which the presidency in the present should be in peach fool disagreeing with this i mean this is what he was sake set what we have is a form of permanent governance in the United States acted under the current governments in the United States which supposedly the elected politicians must obey or if they dont update what will happen to their is what happens if leighton who wasnt elected who was appointed by president all well we saw what happened with well she case with trumps impeachment proceedings and orders these things is a very bad place for a democracy to meet and consider susan rice susan rice weve discussed her Foreign Policy stance this we can also look at a domestic policy and says she was. Heavily involved in unmanned skiing in the last years last week of the Obama Administration in mali that is reason enough to disqualify. True of any kind of public goal in this country because hes now going to be Vice President said i have no need of it is your 1st baking is that you know she went you know cheech because shes the patriot quote unquote cheat she did everything she was the 1st resistance fighter at the top of what she does the fact is that shes part of the interagency consensus and this is the real power which is it seems holds is impossibly difficult to break into the jungle against you because youre facing impeachment your facing criminal proceedings your face you going to sue the media you come up against all these problems sex off the world boxes 2 for biden i mean good job. Or 2 techs off the wall boxes for biden is what biden has boxed himself in and said im glad im going to have a black woman as Vice President and he doesnt have many choices there so youre down to come on harriss and susan rice unless theres someone we dont know about but those are stresses so susan rice obviously is in the lead so aside from the fact that she is part of the swap and the swap is very excited to get her in there for biden she checks off those boxes you know its only stay with us i think its. You know people know american politics and. You know its a rule of thumb that almost nobody cares who the Vice President is ok theres hype in the media you know its just part part of be the the rich will but in this case enough people enough people that supported troop in 2006 again Foreign Policy did play a role being anti interventionist with susan rice on the ticket and it may give people a reason to say yeah ill let it go. Vote for him again because maybe theyd say this time around if we take the rice issue of the table whats the point ok i didnt get what i wanted ok that judge that you didnt work out on the Supreme Court but with susan rice it seems to me thats going to be thats going to rivet the trump base to really get their act together and go out and vote and im a strong believer that this this election will all be about turnout go ahead ours yeah i agree with you on that i mean once again ill go back to the fact that biden boxed himself in he doesnt have any choice and hes thinking do i put susan rice and energize the trump base especially the trump base thats interested in Foreign Policy and International Interventions and all these things or do i appoint kemal hatteras kemal harriss is not the best choice for biden because there hes alienating all the progressives the entire progressive base so hes stuck with these 2 people doesnt have anybody else because he has to check those boxes that he himself put on the ticket i mean he put those restraints im still there one day. To pick and you know if. Thats his set that hes going to choose from when he wins then they will check his box on the Inauguration Day ok book it will set him out into the past year ok thats a topic for another program you are in jail and i want to make an announcement here i team crosstalk its going on vacation as of today will be back in a month i want to thank my team my crew for all their hard work particularly during this endemic working from home and fingers crossed a knock on wood you will see me again on crossfire for my studio in moscow thats all the time i have and gentlemen i want to thank my guests in london and in athens and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are you see you next time remember. Forced and illegal takeover of a government by a small group. Rather than revolutionaries or so just small groups the corporations when you have a tiny group of people who have all the power you have to have some means to make sure the rest of us dont get together and take it back. These are sacrificed. Places that capitalism exploited and destroyed for profit and left behind misery poverty environmental devastation and so you see things like Voter Suppression building more prisons you see gerrymandering all sorts of undemocratic practices. In the world are well into this world and theres no question that the. N. R. C. Correspondent is relief to being detained earlier in minsk while covering antigovernment protests of the month demonstrations in about every segment of that 2nd day claims the weekends president ial election was rigged. Lebanons untie cabinet resigns on months following gathering creasing pressure over last week the devastating blast in beirut. Reportedly tells the u. K. Its happy trying to help stop the increasing flow of migrants crossing the English Channel as long as london stumps up 13000000 pounds