This elephant in the room that access body fat in fact makes this virus so much deadlier and so much more dangerous yeah its a good point osama and i think as doc says we obviously have to be very sensitive in the way that we discuss these particular issues ive treated tens of thousands of patients and manage many people see street people out of sex and cheating many people with weight issues and not once have i ever had somebody complaining about i phrased it but it has to be done in a sense to way because you know ultimately theres such a huge proportion of the population 70 brits and most of people on our way were basically extend the population so i think it needs to be approached a sensitive way unfortunately i think you raise a very valid point there are certain sections certainly within the media and people who think this is a personal responsibility issue and when they see somebody who is. Where basically whats a massive clean come up with the fact they must be greedy over recently must be you know lazy and i think that thats absolutely wrong that we should be doing because it isnt really a post response. Well i think part of the difficulty separating the psychology of obesity and the physiology of it people are rightfully opposed to fat shaming and other forms of myth mistreatment but they often miss the point that obesity is a serious disease of the adipose tissue and adipose tissue is a vital organ immune organ as well as and the criminal organ so with any other progressing pathological condition he wouldnt be encouraging people to just accept themselves a lot of themselves the way there are and yet when it comes to obesity that seems to be the message. And also you do raise an important point and i agree with you in the sense that we cant ignore it and but its as about how we approach these patients so theres no evidence for example that if you actually shame people and you know you come down very strict on them and stop same you know you know making them feel bad about themselves that is unlikely and so you know in my experience you know it is unlikely to really help and it certainly can actually impair and you know be a barrier to good docs of patient relationships and the one i would try to trace and one did that but when people say that its not a personal responsibility what i hear as a formal happiest person is that you can do nothing about it when in fact i know for a fact that there is a lot of things that people can do you know about it and change that probably mean theyre relatively short amount of time so lets talk about this responsibility i think when we talk about it we need to be able to define and to define 1st responsibility to do it you know for people to act with press responsibility you need to have the right information you need to have choice you need to have access and it comes to food needs to be affordable if you havent got the right information ochs on say for example you know we can talk about and im going to one place the dietary guidelines say that people are being misled by for example the low fat movement for very long you know people eating foods same thing it was good for the health think it was going to help in this way it was loaded with sugar it was interfering with appetite or eating more they feel hungry to them playing themselves and actually the blame lies in what they receive in the way that misinformed we cant really say that because of press responsibility in the student farm were not so its well the point is its so saturated with ultra process you know the analogy i use is like asking a child that grows up in a sweet shop to not eat sweets we need to you know we need to help people so that they can empower themselves to try and change or die in the right way but i think we should always constantly be aware how one of the. This wife for example diets and general dont work away all starts for many most people some people of the calorie restriction all that kind of stuff and one of the possible reasons from my perspective is you can do this for so much time this will cower sure you can excise well but if the environment is working against you its harder to sustain and people benefit. The environment is always working against you on any issue i want to give you one example i was just at a coffee shop yesterday and there was this overweight guy who was telling off their clients when not wearing a mask in public but while buying a bunch of act layers and i think this is such a poignant illustration of whats wrong with this whole debate because he felt protected and even selfrighteous by the fact that wearing a mask without even understanding or willing to admit to himself that his own food choices have a much more dangerous impact on his chances of getting and surviving the this virus is just to the point that. I read that information and that you know would environment the war and how full it environment would have heard but at the end of the day the decision lies ahead there within an individual a summit that comes at some very basic though if you look at behavioral science the environment has a much bigger impact so yes of course we make our choices but the environment has a much bigger impact on how we behave than this local custom its also those aspects of it and thats very well known welcome ive been cites mickelson treatments Health Impact paired with shows making the difficult choice a healthy choice will have a much bigger impact on the population than socalled individual counseling or education so thats one thing i would say i think the other thing is we have to also be a way out son and this is something that doesnt get discussed enough is it for certain sections society whove got job insecurity who have very low paid jobs actually having a healthy diet is is almost unavoidable you know children who are growing up in environments where their parents cant even afford them to get healthy food and they have some to growth or they develop conditions related to obesity so me thats just plain wrong thats a gross injustice so we have to think about that as well in this context the other thing id like to raise with you as well is you know you talk about this issue of office responsibly. The information that people have been given for a long time lets talk about the dietary guidelines that changed in the late seventys and early eightys and us in the u. K. Was all about putting you know the base of the diet starchy foods and we now know these are the very food that contributes to all these Metabolic Diseases type 2 diabetes etc so people get confused and that thats another big issue the Food Industry has kind of hijacked information and weve you know this whole culture president junk food has come on the you know common saturate this environment people have gotten sick and that also needs to change but the problem is the the Food Industry have too much control so that even the dives the guidelines are influenced. I want to ask you something about this mask growing controversy that i mentioned because i find it very interesting i think at the heart of it is ultimately a debate about you know how much courage to say how much discipline the way expect from one another in dealing with a major disease and i see obesity and Metabolic Health and they might the same context its ultimately as far as im concerned about how much youre willing to put upon himself or do yourself in order to protect your own health and the health of the people around you because we know im sure you would agree with me that obesity cons at a huge huge huge cost of this aside is it an appropriate comparison. And i agree i think thats a really important point around the fact that you know were all interconnected it was so i mean we know that you know viruses can travel around the world within the space of days to weeks you know us and so in fact saying that so many people from all different backgrounds right so were all interconnected in the same way youre absolutely right you know we also have to think about you know for me for example with my work my advocacy i always think about how can i always love my how i help me to visualization how do i help the population i think about. Because really its an exit and actually its you know and ive got a little bit philosophical here but you know for a society to function effectively for people to be you know if you have a good quality of life to have good health to be happy where we are dependent on each other you know week we cant really i dont think you can ask people who people can live in to tunes and there are some people are extremely happy to be addicted to completely isolated from the rest of society not just the stuff doesnt happen so i think the point youre raising and i which i agree with is is that we have to pull the good of the community for everybody we have to think about the way we act and whether its about where you masts and falling back guidance or about reducing the date of the city but that means its also. Oil responsibility to look at the roots and thats what you that means speaking out against Health Misinformation speaking out against the corruption of science you know one of the things i say in the beginning my talks because misinformation house has become so widespread you know all these docs can no longer practice on this medicine you know we have an epidemic of misinformed oxes misinformed patients you know richard in so many issues lies and i think he actually put the name even starker terms he has said that more than medicine is a major threat to public how thats a pretty strong statement but lets discuss it after a very short break we have to take a minute and see him right now but through the back just a few moments they. Are. Elderly forward to talking to you all. That technology should work for people. I robot must obey the orders given a human being to accept where such orders to conflict with the 1st law show your identification we should be very careful about Artificial Intelligence and the point of use the great transfer of the shia. Areas child playing with Artificial Intelligence will summon the demon. The robot must protect its own existence and existence. If. The world is driven by a dream. No dairy thinks. We dare to ask. The sudden post and illegal takeover of a government by a small group. Rather than revolutionaries all soldiers conduct small group the operation when you have a tiny group of people who have all the power you have to have some means to make sure the rest of us dont get together and take it back. These are sacrificing. Places that capitalism exploited and destroyed for profit and left behind misery poverty environmental devastation and so you see things like Voter Suppression building more prisons you seem gerrymandering all sorts of undemocratic practices. In the world. And this whole question of the. Welcome back to worlds apart from radical insulting cardiologist and best selling author. Just before the break we were talking about how one of madison has become a major threat to Public Health and im sure its gone i mean some doctors or some nurses working double shifts in hospitals will take god as a as an offense when you actually reconcile both of the statements our clint. Being heroes who are putting their lives on the line but also serving a system that doesnt have the bass interests of patients at heart yeah its a its a very its an interesting one to reconcile so the way i would start off as a look son is i think what medicine is achieved many great sames but most of what we do which is the really good stuff in modern medicine is the acute care of the emergency treatments treating people with trauma treating life threatening infection with answered audix treating heart attacks with emergency heart stenting for example something i did for a lot of my career but the big issue in health care now is a management of chronic diseases and the management of chronic disease is a 1st and foremost primary focus our intervention is drugs and when you look at the data on those drugs im im talking about drugs you know Blood Pressure cholesterol pills im talking about drugs for diabetes you know for the overwhelming majority of these patients being treated it doesnt give them any benefit whatsoever and it comes with side effects at the same time were detracting from giving them. Prescribed lifestyle advice so thats where the imbalance is but just to put in perspective for you of us the issue around the pharmaceutical industry influence over guidelines and drug prescribing practices has become such a big issue that one of the cofounders of the very eminent respectable cochrane collaboration pizza goetia his own estimates suggest that the 3rd most screening cause of death after Heart Disease and cancer now is prescribed medications what your prescribe and what your doctor prescribe sphere and he actually gets about 50 percent of that digges medication errors and about 50 percent jitsu side effects can i ask you something about Metabolic Diseases that i could never understand that we are usually taught that this is something that you have for an entire lifetime and yet we know it now for a fact. That thats a type 2 diabetes hypertension inflammation out immune diseases all of that is reversible and reversible in a relatively short amount of time why does the medicine men taining this long term view all of the disease when its taken can be false and when they actually have the tools to and very cheap tools to give to that patients to you know improve their health in a matter of weeks and months at most. Ill give you one word answer and then ill expand on it money. I interviewed the former. Of one of the most british guys Impact Medical terms of world medicine masi angel and i wrote about this in a guardian article and she said to me the real battle we have in health care oksana is one of truth versus money so you know basically whats happening is the science is there but that isnt enough you know we have to overcome these vested interests that have got a grip over modern medicine the reality is often i can tell you how the overwhelming majority of doctors go into the profession to do the right thing by their patients they want to help their patients get better but they are being said information which they do not realize is heavily by state in corrupted by the industry and until we change the system at its root it will carry on as it is part of the issue around what why were not weve got this sounds wrong is also lack of knowledge about lifestyle stuff so for example i didnt get to know anything about basic nutrition and how it impacts on metabolic disease so we medical school but that was almost 20 years ago and of course the signs of all the diseases have become more prevalent and now were now realizing with you know small studies lets be honest that you can reverse many of these medical disease with it if you weeks i see it with my patients and i think that is going to gather momentum it has to governments and because what weve doing isnt not just working is causing huge damage to Public Health absolutely and i think the doctors and the nurse of their home you mentioned sometimes the price make timbs of that you relative recently that i think more than half away and they cassis thoth are overweight and these people are now over exerting themselves and missing out on sleep theyre working double shifts theyre probably eating the junk food that has still and that is still being served in british hospitals and im sure in other countries this is jason is not much different its almost. Like you know in the system is a king its own heroes 1st and foremost yeah absolutely so more than 50 percent your right of doctors and nurses in the n. H. S. Are either overweight or obese and that really comes back to the point about the press responsibility issue because you would expect them to be the most educated and be aware of it ok of i dunno educates it but probably more important is the socalled hostile hit environment and you know its similar if not worse than the high street 75 percent of food coaches in hospitals is considered ultra process or health state so its not a surprise looks on unfortunately and that also goes again theres an element of lack of knowledge because people have been so this information its about counting calories its about you know and its a balance its about you know it doesnt matter what you eat as long as you exercise enough and some of these people who are overweight a sadly unfortunately i think blaming themselves thinking its because theyre not doing enough exercise when all they need to do is actually just change the what they eat in fact you know im very much center of the constructs i so what about say thoughts of detract from the benefits of the lord even look or who is former Shadow Health minister when market sasha was Prime Minister and you know he actually said something which i wrote in my i quoted in my last book he says an obese custom doesnt need to do one iota of exercise in order to lose weight they just need to eat less and the one of the reason the basic reasons for that is we actually you know just by breathing for our organ functions for the blood pumping out of body for ourselves to function we use opposed lot of energy doing the oxen that we do you know at least 161700 calories just from doing that doesnt mean we should exercise and do some of the activity of course we ship but when it comes to weight its all about what you eat. How much it and what exactly it lets talk more about that because one of the things that all is also difficult to grasp is why nutrition has been such an orphan child of medicine because i mean weve known since hippocrates that we are what we eat that. Yet to this day people are pretending that the calories are calories theyre all the same is that you can indeed alderaan the poor diet do you also put that on to bastid interest or is it some sort of i dont know sometimes i think that its magic thinking that people want to maintain that i can eat whatever i want to damn you know tomorrow either medicine or my sports instructor will help me shut it off. Yeah i think its probably a number of factors i think one of it is we have you know over the last few decades i think we as a society have exaggerated in our own minds our perception of what many modern medicine can do has been grossly exaggerates it and i think that has detracted from the very basic simple things that weve lost and the way we live were looking for a quick Fix Solutions we have this system that we live in this modern capitalist system if you like where you know its all about you know producing some sort of product and that Mass Marketing and then you know selling it and of course you thats also infiltrates of modern medicine as well and thats really one of the reasons why does this destruction has happened to be honest so i think we need to kind of just get back to realizing that modern medicine has achieved some great things but actually when it comes to what has increased our Life Expectancy what im saying also in the last 4 or 5 you know the last sort of 150 is most of it has been Public Health you know modern medicine can be attributes its adding maybe 3 and off to 5 year Life Expectancy over an increase of 40 years in the last century in heart and thats again something that people probably find quite surprising quite shocking you know i personally tend to be very harsh overweight people and thats because i hated my own the visit and how much of a cripple me but one of the interesting point that i heard your race is that looking at the external fat is actually very misleading and that people with. Suckage tanny as fat deposits that as big butts and wife hips may actually be in a much better mood to ball like position than people with a normal b. M. I. But with lots of this are all fat around their organ say its not the bow the pira is actually its how they those fat deposits actually function yeah so absolutely spot on you know the statistics basically tell as you know there are some ethnic disparities but if youre normal b. M. R. Right about 40 percent of people who. Come for example from south asian origin and this is not a small number of people in the world this is a you know you look at the indian subcontinent the oh talking about was 2000000000 people around the world. Who are vulnerable to this so this is you know 40 percent of south asians and about 20 percent cocoa asians as well so essentially were all vulnerable and thats why i also say theres no such thing as a healthy way only a healthy person based on the Metabolic Health and the reasons for that are not fully understood but basically for those certain people with for genetic reasons they seem to develop these problems these conditions of disease is a much to lower levels of excess body and that does tend to store itself youre right its called we call it visceral fat its since the store itself in the liver the pancreas and thats where the problem lies in many people unfortunately just vic just because were focusing on on b. M. I. Who are normal b. M. I. Will have the illusion of protection is that they actually could be very methodically and healthy in very high risk and therefore not identified and not treated properly as well they are how moment that they for me add came when i understood that adipose tissue is it is a real organ and that it starts functioning differently once you reach a 2nd on how free a level of access that and in fact i think most of us have learned in your words during this and demi cytokines so if ye size producing land made my choice more cytokines damaging cytokines and as a result of that we are essentially poisoning our bodies every single day and then they covet 1000 cons and it makes it all that all the worries but am i right in thinking that at the root of all of that is one substance and that is sugar yeah absolutely so we know from data thats been coming in about people type 2 diabetes a. Much higher risk of death so if youre a type 2 diabetic treatment is hospital you have a 3 fold higher risk of death of your type 14 fold higher. Probably a combination now where youve got exogenous insulin being being injected insulin itself is actually crowds on the street so you know and then you go i look absolutely sugar so high the glucose the high the risk of death we know that from all infections that type 2 diabetes and see most of the comments section certainly and we say it was code that was actually raised the question is well its on about the types of foods or eating some of these food people are eating and we can you know highlight you know this is something that caused a bit of control so twitter with that is you know one Hospital Trust in london was you know promoting if you like or a congratulate same krispy kreme donuts for giving you know 1500 donuts to stash ill spittle and for me who understands estates a very well you know people say want dont concho you but actually if you eat one donut then even if youre healthy mentally healthy it will save you cause you know you know so that the reading you should stop labeling their foods proinflammatory we should call them corrupt calvi and because thats what i actually they they do because i mean from the studies that i have looked at its pretty clear that you know a few days on side diet and your risk of. Contracting and disease and dealing poorly with if increases substantially but on the good side and this is that the last question to you you made the point that once you make those die there it changes you can turn your by around and pretty sure the amount of time and i absolutely have side effects where you starting off from absolutely already medical if youre healthy if youre overweight or obese and its not Rocket Science its about cutting out the old pros this foods its about eating high quality coffee hydrates its about eating 2 to 3 meals a day not snacking you know i see patients to you know send type 2 diabetes into remission within just a few weeks of changing their diet and people feel better they just feel better themselves im sure you know we dont know. You know i still sort of im sure you probably feel much better in yourself that he used to do absolutely and that actually much better not only about myself but also about my children because i dont want to have you know my my children to take care of me when i lose my memory view to sugar and use dementia for example or i dont want the society of you know 2030 years from now to be responsible for my poor poor Health Choices so i think thats thats a very interesting combination of both personal and social responsibility but when we talk about. Those issues i think people need to keep in mind that its not only about Wearing Masks its absolutely about what you put in the mouth behind that mask absolutely and why one of the things i wrote about a lot of coal you know for european scientists and that sort of telegraph newspaper was actually the message in the in the u. K. Going forward should be the Public Health message except he repeats it you know each real sued. You know protect the n. H. S. And save lifes and that that needs to Everybody Needs to know that but the problem is we need to now educate people about it what well see it is because a lot of people dont even know what real speed is anymore while theyll tell us the track of this interview contributes a tiny little bit of informing the people anyway we have to leave it there thank you very much for sharing your insights and im looking forward to your neighbor my pleasure thank you example and thank you for watching i hope to see you again next week on while the part. Is youll be dia a reflection. Enough reality. In the world transformed. What will make you feel safe from. Isolation the whole community. Are you going the right way or are you being led so. Direct. What is true what is faith. In the world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Aura maybe in the shallowness. I know no crowd. No shots. Actually you dont speak. With. No 1st. Point your thirst for action. Among the stories that shape this week of violence subsides some walks on the streets of portland does donald trump play just a polaroid federal agents. The mother of a 12 year old boy arrested at night at gunpoint because he heard a toy pistol accuses London Police of racial profiling. Believe i was angry as well once. You know why. Also coming up on the program like key subset