Discuss this and more im joined by my guest beguile in beijing he is chair professor and so Child University and in stand where we cross to Daniel Wagner he is c. E. O. Of country risk as well as author of china vision the America China dubai and his new book on the belt and wrote initiative in chinese or texas right gentlemen crossed up rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok lets go to beijing richard the words that you know the world must change turning over china will change just how do you interpret that because so many commentators and one policy or one role if you. Would use the speech at the Nixon Library a big bewildering because its taking todays circumstances in the post cold war in kind of reverting back to when using the same kind of language and i want to talk about the ideological. I mean china will is changing as. Well 1st of all i see in my own quails speech at the Richard Nixon president ial library was an insult to those nixon political legacy and its an insult to china u. S. Relations for more then 4 to one yes not talking about change i would say no other country has changed them all then china has over the past all to yes and if that changes are good for Chinese Peoples interest of course i would work up whatever changes we can bring along if the changes are to stop chinas economic rise i think all the chances people will unite behind the Chinese Government to oppose and fight against those changes i think what pale is talking about is that china should no longer develop as shallow as you give up the rights of peaceful rise and this is what the townspeople can never accept china neat changes the laws of data if the changes will change china for the better and will improve the Living Standards of the Chinese People and these changes out what china opposite but these changes are exactly the opposite of what people at home pale and wishing for so we are at a very important crossroad ng in World History and chinas Economic Development is a major trends no what can stop chinas Economic Development ok daniel how do you how did you react to the mike pump a 0 speech at the Nixon Library because a lot of people in a surprising number and said it is the this isnt a drawing a line in the sand is that is that what we need right now and it is that is his message go ahead i think 1st of all the reason that he chose that venue is because back in the 1970 s. When kissinger and nixon opened up the door to us china relations i think there was an acknowledgment at the time he. I hope that what might happen is that there would not only be a peaceful rise which of course Everyone Wants and everyone agrees with generally but they also were presuming that if there was enough exposure to the west if there was a Good Relationship between the u. S. And china and the west more generally that china would gradually liberalized politically and it would change into something other than what it was of course that didnt happen and i think the reason that it shows that venue is because if he had known that maybe that wasnt going to happen that maybe he would have thought twice about exactly how he did what he did but that all said i think the u. S. Government the u. S. People they certainly acknowledge that china is a very important and significant country its not going anywhere i dont think the American Government know what no matter what its come composition would dream of suggesting that china is not going to continue its rawest i think its clearly an unstoppable trend even if there was a desire no one would be capable of doing it so i think its its really an acknowledgement of where we are in sinar u. S. Relations at the present time you know really. I thought my comp aon misinterpreted Richard Nixons opening because he is if you look at the historical record we have to remember this was in the middle of the cold war we and it was a nickname finally acknowledged mentioned in in the washington elite that it was a rift between the soviet union and china and the nixons damned it was to get to triangulate to get in there and into work all off how all your extras work players work in simultaneously and it actually works to the benefit of all 3 of may but i mean my campaign was interpreted is that china nixons intent was to change the internal order china and i think thats a misrepresentation of the historical record this is about Foreign Policy go ahead. Absolutely i actually had the great honor and privilege of working for Richard Nixon when he visited china in 1985 as a private citizen and we travel together to several cities in china in addition to beijing nixon impressed me a great deal with his vision with his Historical Perspective and also with his kerry for china u. S. Relations so i see what my own pail did in the nixon president ial library is a sekret it is a really an insight of the nixon historical legacy no i think what the United States needs to do is to figure out a way to get along with china whether us is bigger than china or whether china is bigger than us it doesnt matter that much the key is for china the United States the 2 largest economies in the world they need to get in there are with each other and you knew to figure out a way to deal with each others differences for example with respect rather than go into each others juggler rather than trying to wrestle the other side down to the ground because thats not possible the more pressure people i promptly helpful on china the more resilient china becomes and the more the Chinese People are rally behind the Chinese Communist party in our culture are the channels communist party is the largest the Political Party in the world with more than 93000000 members so i dont think im pale really knows what hes talking about the Chinese People are really very much united will accomplish plenty of china why because they eat improve the Living Standards of the Chinese People they fight off the coronavirus they save people in the middle of the curler batters even those people in that mine tips for example this is why the commies idea of china in china earns a lot of credential analyser is facts and support from the Chinese People song i. Whatever it wishes my popeil may have is they should is alicias all futility. Daniel one of the things they find very curious and it kind of you dont tales in with the rise of this pandemic is that for some reason the United States with its current political order and the political order in china run by the communist party as weve just heard here all the sudden they cant coexist its really quite remarkably nice they coexisted 1st 70 years but a little last 4 months all i hear is communist china the communist party of china is thrown into the media here i mean is it something new its not new how do you explain that well a part thats new as everybody understands at least here in america is that the Trump Administration really is no longer taking china at its word that its going to do certain things we know for example that in the Obama Administration there was an effort to stop cyber intrusions and sarah back into any team she and obama had agreed and then you know a month or 2 later they were back at it so i think theres an acknowledgement that the gloves are off that something fundamental has to change in the relationship and that china is no longer going to quote have its way with america whether it is these of the trade or in terms of cyber traditions or the theft of intellectual property the difference is now that the trumpet administration has basically said this will not stand in here longer we dont care if it has an impact on the bilateral relationship something fundamental has to change now i dont agree with strong about very much at all but i do agree that its important to tackle you know very fundamental aspects of International Relations and this is one of the i mean clearly the nature of that relationship could not continue going on the way that it was and is trying to credit a lot not accustomed to credit him for much i think that it ultimately will prove to be. Useful that the gloves are off and that there will be something fundamental that will change in this relationship that hastert pm daniel having said that that if the gloves are off the gloves are off to both sides because yes i mean you know bigger and you know i am not in the Intelligence Community and i cannot speak with authority here but. I think it is a default that countries buy on each other in the with the more more powerful and richer and more resources you have the more youre going to apply it in the way the American Media is always spinning it is it only china is doing this only in china and theres no its not never mentioned that this is part of the state ok im not going to bow to the Chinese Government any more than im going to bow to the u. S. Government considering the weapons of mass destruction in iraq that means they are ever destroying their reputation with lots of people like me so the bigger the gloves are off for both sides thats fair. Well tell him our Cyber Espionage has just read the bulk of the information coming out of Edward Snowden and i think we will have a very comprehensive and complete picture of what the u. S. Government has been doing in terms of espionage all Cyber Espionage not to accuse china of duty thats while whitewashing what the u. S. Government has been doing is really in in fantasy and i dont think people in germany for example or in other parts of europe will believe what washington is talking about and i would say the u. S. Way of manhandling great leading tech company like quali really reveals to the fullest extent that the u. S. Cannot tolerate a company which is better than its own which is more out send the lead its own wishes or lead up in the 5 g. And is not only trying to kill far away from his rallying all its allies tried to kill huawei well he forgets that i kidding howie the americans are not going to benefit because this will drag down the you as roll out of the 5 g. Network as well as the applications to be built on top of the 5 g. Network it will be a net loss to the United States and eventually it may force china you really become completely Self Reliance in terms of said we cannot so it may actually. 1 reading the ethanol for the U S Semiconductor industry so i dont see people at home pale or abandoned for example on the morrow they know what they are talking about they want to do one thing they dont care about the consequences for the consequences will catch up with them this is how china u. S. Relations are played out right now and anything washington will do with its govs are without is clubs are now with the. Will be consequences as if i dont just exist if you want to get wrestle down china into the ground maybe i used to be before we go to the break go ahead yeah yeah if i could just jump in on this and actually 2017 i wrote a book on Cyber Espionage called virtual terror so i do know a thing or 2 about this is that peter youre absolutely right all states in gauge in this type of behavior i think the objection here is the scale and the scope and the absence of consequences as a result of the actions that are often taken on the chinese side obviously the u. S. Is very active in this space as well if you want to jump in here we have to go to a hard break and after that heart rate well continue our discussion on u. S. Chinese relations state r. T. Donny and by north its funny people because they copy him hes so bored that even such a bad puppy is sending. Im not here to anybody until god didnt kill the find the next guy. Who looked up live on. Being done the and felt something that had she been done plenty of. That deflect from what is seo things to the deflection of what is happening to say that. That is a god that when i got up from idiots are. Going to write about that and the. Fact that you can thank god you got to get nothing that gap. You know a lot of the. Political cannot. Handle an a plus and then they have their day what did gandhi the new normal Gandhi Gandhi face David Begnaud do you get to mock you then david join you. The world is driven by shaped by. The day or thinks. We dare to ask. Welcome back to cross talk were all things are considered im here a little to remind you were discussing whether china is now be enemy. Ok lets go back to daniel talking about cyber space before we went to the break. So i just wanted to pick up on one point that victor had made regarding the injunction the u. S. Government has to wall way this because of the linkages between wall wage and Chinese Government if were always was strictly a commercial entity i dont think there would be much to object about and i also believe that having taken the actions that its taken on wall way its going to encourage American Companies to actually do more in the space in buy and 60 and i do think that ultimately that will be the net result. Ok well its very interesting i think as i think victor is already kind of alluded to it is that the way were going were going to have to internet were going to have you know one country is going to choose to be on one platform and there is an intrusion on another and it doesnt look very good for the u. S. Because in in europe i mean for example the germans are really pushing really hard back that they want to make their own decision on this. Way and we have the u. K. Already come up i want to switch gears a little bit here i want to go back to something the pump you know said im going to write this to you victor china ripped off our price intellectual property and trade secrets costing millions of jobs across america i find im really getting tired of this argument here it was the captains of american industry that decided where they were going to maybe do their manufacturing and they get a lot of it went to china went to mexico went to other countries it would be a lot of Different Countries here but to blame china for stealing jobs i find that really galling and its not in words with. With verifiable facts i would also say mr watt is that american productivity actually increased amazingly and it was allowed to cut jobs i mean we have a productivity issue and then moving assets into foreign markets here i dont see how that is chinas all china. And shareholders of American Companies immensely benefited from it go ahead. Absolutely as of now china is already the largest patent producer in the world larger than the United States and china has a greater vested interest in protecting our rights or china itself or its companies as well as for companies throughout the world and the chinese Economic Transformation over the past 40 yes is really achieved by the great contribution and hard work and hard labor of the Chinese People into the me we really. Take arrester for weekends we rarely take holidays off for example we keep working and this is the reason fundamental reason for the High Economic productivity interest and i think if you compare the disciplining or the work. Ethics of the Chinese People worse is many other countries you will see why chinas Economic Development has been so rapid over the last 40 years and hope really it will continue to accuse china of archaeology rights set is really the wrong tree as a matter of fact there are more litigations between and among American Companies i guess American Companies or American Companies as Korean Company has French Companies et cetera in terms of intellectual rights in sri shouldnt internet your rights problems im not unique to china and the Chinese Government has never had any state policy to encourage sassed of p. R. Right for example saw i think this is purely fabrication for the u. S. Government try to focus on chinas problems as if for example china abate the great Economic Transformation over the past 40 years because of the theft of our young nothing can be further from the truth as this. You know danny one of the things i mean you know you and i but i didnt you know it iraq americans here in and you know. I think its fair to say we remember the cold war pretty well ok we betray our age. But it began that conflict was ideological and largely military of course there were the periphery. Flare ups there were confrontation but the 2 countries never in that was a rule we never go after each other here but china is a very different country than the soviet union because the soviet union was never an economic powerhouse its retinue west i mean militarily it had some pretty good stuff but economically had our target didnt have much trade i mean china is a very different. Animal i can say than the soviet union was the United States is simply isnt used a having appear and i think thats one of the thing thats kind of been it 9 at the the inner core of the elites because you know this is a different country its very powerful its very rich and it is on a trajectory communism ended because it was in the soviet union big for a variety of reasons ok and you know just pointing at you know the communist party of china that to me doesnt say anything ok it said something to me about the soviet union so the question is whats different here is the u. S. Is not is not accustomed to having a real great power rival go ahead. I think theres some truth in that let me address that in a 2nd is want to go back to something that victor said you said earlier i frankly dont understand why American Companies are still operating in china and i do agree they have largely themselves to blame for making china the manufacturing epicenter of the world and along with other lots of other western companies they didnt have to do that but they chose to do it and then they stay there and even though there are draconian operating environments operating in china they still choose to stay there which they wouldnt do probably for any other country so i do. Wonder why that is still texts now going to answer to your other questions i do agree with you and us accustomed to having a global peer if you will and i think you know frankly a lot of people here might be a little bit concerned that china has risen so quickly continue to rise so quickly that you know its not far behind us and a lot of reynosa that said i think they would like to believe the americans would like to believe that theres going to be some sort of a level Playing Field in terms of how we embrace and how we operate by the same set of global. And i dont know that china is necessarily so accustomed to operating on that basis china is much more accustomed custom to creating its own environment creating its own alternative reality in terms of the way it sees the world and operating as it would like to operate at home abroad thats going to be very difficult for him to to continue to do theres already a backlash from from the belgium road initiatives for having done so and a lot of people are saying im not sure i want this to continue for a final point on that in 28 team q had the pew center had a very excellent survey where they surveyed 26000 people from 25. 00 countries and basically 63 percent say they would like the u. S. To continue to lead only 19 percent envisioned a world in which and it was the leader victor i mean we have what we heard the words norms in rules and when it is in terms of the International Order and i have to push back against daniel a little bit here i mean illegal invasion of iraq the illegal presence of american troops in syria the illegal overthrow the government of libya the illegal overthrowing the democratically elected government in ukraine how in the world can people in the west palm about norms and rules. Noisy washing that probably is custom to buy lead to all kinds of laws or rules if it suits their purposes and it uses countries like china of wiley to International Loans if america feels threatened now coming back to daniels points why Multinational Companies want to come to china refused to leave for example because china now is the biggest it has in the market in the world larger than that of the United States so if you are a company if you run the company you cannot commit corporate suicide by disregarding the law just a Consumer Market in the world you need to producing china to get close to the markets to know the preferences of agendas consumers and you also need to leverage off on the highways for quality infrastructure and connectivity in china so that your production can be at lower cost and faster rate of solar out so that you can sell to opossum of the world including selling back to the United States this is the attraction of china i dont think in the immediate future any other country can replace china as the biggest attraction for corporates if they pursue corporate profitability as their own line i think a lot of people are if i could just say pleased i think a lot of kids of American Companies are asking themselves if they can actually afford to stay in china and over the last 2 decades ive spoken with Many Companies who have told me about the difficulty theyve had operating there they originally went there of course for exactly the reason you say that they wanted to be able to tap into that 1. 2 at the time maybe 1400000 people now christian is you know is a cost youre worth the potential benefit a lot of companies are having 2nd thoughts about well and then well you know i think that you know i want to make i want to make sure my viewers dont miss. Understand here. I like the idea of bringing supply chains back to the United States this pandemic shows the necessity of doing that but i dont understand it i dont see that it is a lose lose i think its a win win with it all countries safeguard supply chains when it comes to certain elements of their economy i think thats what thats called. Self defense and protecting your sovereignty my gripe is that you know constantly criticizing china for stealing our jobs when the when the us itself allowed itself to be open to thrown in billets and i think you know i would like to see an inkling and a congressional investigation into that why do you sell your country out ok because thats the other side of the coin here in western media doesnt like to touch here because well the media is controlled by very powerful people that are involved in this kind of activity here so i mean we have to be much more transparent in whats going on here not just blaming china major or how is the relationship how should it move forward or and how do you think it will move forward and then i will ask and it is im russian go ahead now i think its on a u. S. Relations goal for the doll between now and the web of the search and between the serbs. Gender or the trying to its 25 i love traits that america. Resists the narco of the damned if wanes so there will be great chaos in the United States i mean here we were presented as you elect there you know the same question go ahead right i dont know that the foundation that has been laid over the last 3 plus years is likely to change regardless of whos in the white house come january 20th i think the stakes are going to continue to be higher and i do agree with victor that we can expect things to get a little a little worse in the next several months that all said i do think there will ultimately become an equilibrium. Between these 2 powers with the recognition that they have to find a way to get along the stakes are simply and i wouldnt be surprised actually if the Chinese Government actually prefers a 2nd Trump Presidency it because that will continue the disarray and the fragmentation on the part of the west a biden presidency would probably result in some sort of. Regard us and its many allies those are very thoughtful dogs from both of you thats all the time we have i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r. T. And i want to thank our guest in beijing and in stamford and see you next time you remember. The sudden fullest and illegal takeover of a government by a small group. Rather than revolutionaries also just conduct small group the corporations when you have a tiny people who have all the power you have to have some means to make sure that asked of us dont get together into the back. Alleys or sacrifice some places that capitalism exploited and destroyed for profit. And left behind misery poverty environmental devastation and so you see things like Voter Suppression building more prisons you seem gerrymandering all sorts of undemocratic practices where wealth uses the world for well for this world. Question that the