To discuss this and more im joined by my guest sarah issue in knoxville she is a visiting scholar at Fudan University and in beijing we cross the jungle he is a professor at the university of International Business and economics across up rules in effect that means you can jump in he time you want and i always appreciate it ok lets go to sara and knoxville. What role is china playing in the American Election because i said in my introduction both biden and trump want they like to show these apps ok that ad versus ad very and i china obviously but i dont see it really making much of an impact on the electorate because there are so many other issues theres the pandemic there is an economic turndown and all the sudden its all chinas fault somehow believe me i understand what that feels like living in russia there. I think that you know definitely something that both candidates will if they have asked you interest because china has been such a big part of President Trumps whole you know policy agenda and so i think thats something that is really important on the list some experts think that its you know one of the top one or 2 or 3 issues i dont know that it has a certainly agree with that but its something that they have to address but i think you know both candidates are talking about china in a negative light blaney things on china certainly theyre coronavirus pandemic which you mentioned you know President Trump has stated that its led to a mass worldwide killing and said that china covered it out and biden hasnt done much better to be honest about it and you know both candidates have talked about being tough on china weve definitely seen President Trumps track record in terms of the trade war weve heard yet it biden talk about the fact that he wished prohibit u. S. Companies from abetting repression wanted quote at supporting the chinese Surveillance States also talking about imposing economic sanctions on beijing and so these are this is something that definitely is in the air although right now i think they occur on a virus issue is on the top of the list its going to be a junior i mean yeah i think its i said i consider my introduction that its a lot of written rhetoric because the captains of industry in finance have done extremely well in their interactions with china over the last few decades i dont think they want to see that change one iota so im on the one hand i think its very rhetorical. And in the end it incites passions and emotions but i dont see the c. E. O. s and president s of companies doing very much about. Putting into play the rhetoric of either candidate and i think its real its actually quite hollow though it does seem designed on ice some people. Well the problem is that the companies the congress the pollock remark that has been benefiting from you know disco aint a trade or asians ships as well as investment ratios china dont get any sympathy from present trump and his folks i think this entire. Campaign in 2016 going to a white house has been built on distillery that china has beastie jobs Market Companies go moving to china together we just shops and hes appealing to is Political Base that ive been pretty much you know perceived as the victims of that the movement. This is actually you know fundamentally as a comic some work but unfortunately you know his entire political pop 8 though is based on death theory so unfortunately you know compromise test benefit the message he found the china relationship the trade between the 2 countries amount to a 700000000000. 00 company marcus operation here in china the reach somewhere between 400. 00 to 500000000000. 00 of revenue. As a lot of money for america but the thing is that. Is political but it doesnt benefit or not from dad and he had to let any sympathy yet you did tax these people this Corporate Leaders of being you know operating again in china so so his entire mandate is to quit in my opinion of Corporate America out of china and his entire you know champion towers against china is based on a theory that you know should go to congress. But United States and so am i dont know if this actually benefits United States on economic one of you but unfortunately thats what he believes and you know we can debate about that after x. Off this trade war. Theres no empirical evidence. To support as a trump strategy it doesnt matter to me is it is not a hallmark of for his approach. That it. Is and thats thats his source is coming from unfortunately he wanted to have china being a champion issue in 2020 an actual problem is that today you know chinas entire in fact operation is less than one day sofa 4 in fashion United States that this white you know the china issue is inevitably connected to this mismanagement and total fiasco in content of house and house this so this is not coming as for him on one side he has to clean up the childish you im just on the other side it reminds of American People of the shah contrast between china and the United States respect to the congo policy issue but dont give the American Media that much credit and the American Public knows virtually nothing about china at the end of the day here sir im going to put you on the spot here can you name can you give me what a one job one china that china stole from america if you think of one job because i know a lot of jobs that were taken out of america by americans and brought to china to give to Chinese Workers i fear this china stole just didnt steal one job its the captains of industry and finance that moved their operations is that chinas all or is it their fault but its certainly an American Carrier and i think thats thats really where the g. Jeffrey is wrong here go ahead yeah i mean i read it really that. The rhetoric is incorrect it was you know politicians and also the captains of industry as you say who are in charge of moving jobs especially manufacturing jobs out of america manage to china and here the not mention mexico into all these other countries in the name of free trade and while i believe that free trade is a good thing because it helps us to buy lots of cheap stuff you know and raise our standard of living our low salaries can help to a more eroding salaries can help to to buy more stuff as a result of that but government has not put into place appropriate protections for american low income or middle income workers and you know thats really the big concern but notwithstanding all of that you know there really are some issues with china that i think that you know theyre trying to administration has not really guys in share its not about china causing coronavirus or stealing jobs or whatever or having a trade surplus with us none of that makes sense but it is true that china has and continues to steal and selectional property from the u. S. That is a major issue here is also that china continues to be to rampa its aggression towards hong kong thats another piece of this long qantas part of china if im not mistaken correct it is but it was supposed to be governed separately one country 2 systems and yeah i really didnt want to go into hong kong as you but if you want to so what should the u. S. Do i mean i mean what do you know beijing is watching whats going on in portland you know its a good time to Say Something about that to china to punish america for whats going on in oregon i mean its i mean double standard. Huge double standard errors it is i mean i dont think they you know i dont subscribe to the view that the u. S. Has to be the policemen of the world i think that is too much of a. You know a loaded role though for it and for us to take on but i do think you know that the u. S. Needs to respond and that the west somehow needs to respond to this type of promotion of authoritarianism violation of human rights those are basic things that i think there should be some response year now why should the response be i dont know that it should be economic sanctions per se i think thats fairly unique it seems to be watching after a year of these protests in hong kong as if these are the leaders of these groups that actually ended up with a net loss for all the people of hong kong ok so i think it was kind of fools errand and now you have people like mike come pale talking about human rights are you kidding me the secretary of state is talking about human rights i mean gitmo is still open ok so i dont see any moral standing on the side of the United States to talk about chinas human rights record at all john you want to jump in on that. Well let me 1st address this issue not stating to not your property as. So ross mansion i think this is of course why i think this is a. Gross country again a campaign coming from white house coming on the strongest regime lets talk about you know cyber theft of intellectual property now there are many going to have to somehow im going to be docked access from russia i have from the United States these are 1st of all i dont think that entirely true not to the government 2nd china has the largest population but we have. People so natural republic the largest population of. Us. Base but you know you shipment this through a sort of space also. The whole nation approach to sunni ahmad its not 2 properties thats just crazy i mean give me one example of one technological achievement as a result of studio american Auction Properties you know that gets any advantage if you dont have a lot of talk of all this in the past in the media the last 2 years also but if you dont show all of this this this profit and ill just acquisitions you get down to the details find one example that actually substantiated this one had never going to get me i have i went through a lot of my last session 30 report is 200 page report just talking about were going to talk to properties after that kind of things i mean these are the examples 1st of all i think youre 2nd now more than 20 years ago to not have im not here theres a kind of a middle ground on this is well is it is my understanding and im happy to be corrected if im wrong here but a lot of the joint ventures in American CompaniesForeign Companies have in china it entailed Technology Transfers as part of the deal do you business there so i mean if you signed the dotted line you cant say you didnt know go ahead there yeah i mean i would just say you know what i was saying is that theyre actually in said that and thats their estates sponsored hacking of american firms and european firms and also Government Entities and you know im actually pretty pro trying to that i think you know stealing intellectual property is is is not a good way to compete on the world stage and it doesnt create a good feeling or a sense of fair competition. Most recently there were q. Happening on here i have to jump in here we have to go to a hard break and after that hard grateful to you more discussion on chinas role in the American Election. State art. We go to work so you straight home. Problem drugs dont dollars come from unscrupulous dealers but from pharmacies too in every state in the United States weve seen very sharp increase in the number of people seeking treatment for addiction to prescription opioids beyond invited america under the banner of medicine persisted with the pain but instead of trying to wean him off though she just goes at their dose after dose after dose and really became his drug dealer so whos to blame patients doctors manufacturers all the governments are. Welcome to draw some or all these are considered on Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing chinas role in the us election. Ok lets go back to it now its all share to us theyre going to follow you into the break youre trying to make a point already youre still most recently there were your actors you were indicted by the us least our un donkey arent your. Or and they were accused of hacking not only you know for their own benefit but also happy not to be have. The governments and their actual individuals from governments one particular individual from the ministry of security issue is identified as working with these hackers so that the. Narrative about these hackers ins know and types of hacks that they carried out is also known and they were indeed stealing intellectual property from biotechnology firms from. Medical device engineering firms and from the military you know of course chinas not alone but china is responsible for 40 percent of global hacking well he lives in their interest i think we need to be fair the way its reported by the u. S. Government in the media is that only countries that america doesnt like fax them ok hacking is going on all of the time its a very lucrative illegal profession for a lot of people and some people do it for governments no doubt about it but just single chinatown only if it is doing that its like you know russia hacked the American Election well there were certainly individuals that were if your password was password you probably would get hacked ok mr podesta ok so what they were doing so sorry i did not already do they thats a lot im. Going to find that im going to claim that the cia the n. S. A. Im not engaged in any of these activities i mean this is the biggest foreign tell if you tell me that right and i want to does that so you know this is no surprise to me and also many refer to one part of the history that in our states was engaged in a massive. Amount of flying national esperance i was one that was an 80 hunter and that sort of i wasnt im good at. Why not a state engage in that you know activities to steal. Attacks now technologies frank ring Benjamin Franklin in the ambassador to paris was look. Its been a hot snap welcome stealing textile technology. A castle a no gun. That was a wonderful time in history that you have states was pretty much you know simply just china right now being the United States so im going to this is something that i think that in the us i think you know about it you know why the government and he shook up tell activities like this but i think china is trying to do this i mean i think as part of the trade agreement. The 1st phase of the train agreement is something regarding that aspect that there is much china and hes from the state governments a perspective is not going to you know a sponsor all as well as you know trying to tell who tried the activities going after those people trying to do these things for commercial benefits so these on issues that can be addressed not to row. A sense trying to get it illegally if. I mean this is going to be i think very very broadly it and in one of the things thats really misunderstood about china at least from an American Point of view is that its very difficult for americans in the american political elites to see china as an equal peer because the United States hasnt had one for 6 or so very long. And you know if we could go back to you people are talking about the new a new cold war with china that i think thats true ok but you know during the original cold war the United States versus the soviet union is that the soviet union had very specific high technologies in the military but not other places china has almost everything that you could imagine to be an american peer industry well Technology Actually has a unified people america is very very divided here as well and one of the reasons why its hard for americans the tape china as a peer seriously would you agree with. I dont know yet i think that certainly people of your china as a had it or at least a competitor. There are worse but so is you know germany for example but i think that you know people see china as an increasing aggressor that is thats the major issue i think between the u. S. And china and you know these intellectual property issues have been going on for many years i should also point out that you know under obama his agreement with the president and it because of their diplomatic strong diplomatic relations trying to stop attacking us or several years until trump was an office and so you know these are theories there are some things that can be worked out diplomatically but at the same time we see chinas increasing aggression in the South China Sea. You know you also see where the American Interest is there in the South China Sea because if im not mistaken its called the South China Sea because its near china not to put that money in california it might be my problem i think the idea is that you know that the u. S. Needs your feels the need to and im not saying that you know this is necessarily right but the u. S. Feels the need to entertain what it views as an increasingly aggressive china and even under obama you know secretary has made it inside Hillary Clinton iraq trying to find aggression here what do you mean by. Well i dont know gentrys china invaded recently. Well were talking about is increasing military activity certainly thats a sign of aggression. Even though in other there. You noted statements from the Pacific Islands merican lake i mean it dont you think it was maybe an opinion on the head john. I wouldnt say problem well. Enough regret aggression i mean 1 i dont know if you heard about them the dean principal Michael Ledeen used to work for the pentagon yes a very famous saying average 10 years ago every 10 years also you know station to pick up some crap in a new country just sort of has to walk to mean we were to meet we took to Thomas Street in a war that we mean business i mean if you look back you history as not was every 10 years ago or so its like you know once every 3 or 4 years a whole you know law states pick up some crappy Little Country is the one against the war to show to understand that youre there to. Tell us also to just to say that you know china is aggressive i think its its makes a mockery of the word aggression you know and you know the South China Sea i want to make a point that you know. The trump ministration just a few days ago. Secretary of state. East statement was that he chants United States traditional condition on the issue of honesty used to be mutual not just taking a side and its also championing. But its all major biddell that United States doesnt own a cell ok. You know i think this is behind us rhetorics the whole bunch of progress indeed it was china and i think the fact that china has been at the camp the punching back of the United States is purely it purely because of the election and its you. Understates has a lot of im not going also i think very important is that the american response to to the pandemic has been is nothing less than a disaster ok theres comparisons you can have all around the world we dont have to use chinese the comparison if you dont want you can use europe is a very good example and i think thats projecting and i think its kind of sad and blaming china is a good that youre not to explain why the reason Single Payer Health care like everywhere else in the world ok i think thats unfair yes sarah i dont want to see a new cold war i dont want to see a conflict here is it just because were in the silly season of the american president ial election or is there is it is this real and if you could give maybe beijings perspective is the United States going to ratchet up the the rhetoric and me even more in the face of this rivalry go ahead well i think you know if we have a continued track theyre going to stray share and we will and i definitely dont support. His rhetoric and im just you know saying that its out there and stating that there actually are some things that need to be worked out not through a trade war or sanctions or things like that but diplomatically we really need to improve diplomatic relations with china doesnt make sense to go to war or go to a cold war with china you know weve seen for many decades that its weve developed the u. S. Has developed close ties to try to end its benefit both countries so you know it honestly it doesnt really make any kind of sense economically for the 2 countries to be at odds to this extends with each other. And the world is big enough for both countries i wish i wish that the american political elite could understand that you know let me go back years or something i mean again im watching the media all the time and you know up until i would think maybe up until february it was china. You know since there is a communist china in its the its the communist partys pandemic i mean this goes over and over again and upon the mistaken it not as a communist country but nobody even up to this be it now because it has that political order i mean it that this is it its really intentionally done to. To sway passions here and i think it doesnt really do serve any positive purpose go ahead then as there was a campaign guideline that was developed by you comes on company for the. Republican. Committee or how do you come to any basic talking about how to make the use of the chinese. To be a Campaign Issue but the problem is that you know as i said as an trungpa seeing his losing this campaign hes trying. All of these. Various swing states. Michigan hes losing big as a bit of his trying to big even in florida hes actually trying to put it back in those that is based on numbers in the white house now i am really concerned that he will do something drastic traumatic in the rest of this administration days you see today the news that hes already shown us house in office use them to quote you know i think its not entirely father wrote that he would do something drastic where people been talking about the silent this relationship has been experiencing a free for all its actually more than a free for all i think hes trying to stir up something really great. Do you really mean. That its. Going to get well im sure it will be possible if its not so. It doesnt just have to be true because theres plenty of it you know the pentagon looks at china and then sees a lot of money its Good Business you know a real enemy i mean we need to spend a lot more money as the country not the country is or and theres no sign that theres no assistance for the middle class and i think thats what really should be the debate here i want to thank my guests not still and in beijing and i want to thank our viewers for watching as you are you see you next im remember. Elgood forward to talking to you all. That technology should work for people. I robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such orders to conflict with the 1st law show your identification for should be very careful about Artificial Intelligence and the point of all of us me is to create. A very chummy with Artificial Intelligence where some of the demons. The robot must protect its own existence is. 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