Knocking china im joined by my guest tom what gives a normal he is president and c. E. O. Of t w d and associates a Global Business an Educational Consulting firm based in michigan as well as a regular contributor to china u. S. Focused with an interest as unbuilding heis between the east and west and in singapore we cross to jim rogers hes an International Investor and director of. Our gentlemen crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump and he was rich all right let me go to singapore jim let me go to you 1st here we hear a lot of bluster coming out of western capitals particularly the United States and the media depending on what. Side of the aisle youre on but its all trying to spot china must pay something must be done its always the mantra something must be done that is the age we live in something must be me not i look at all of it and then. You know and its this. Kneejerk reaction and of course. Old paradigms like the cold war that was ended in 1901 so i mean as you all is you all absorb it here and youre a financial guy so i trust you more is there a strategy now that i dont trust politicians thats for sure and you know you know asia very well is this you know. Cold war 2. 0 against trying it is a risk rather g. That you see that you can delineate all. Throughout history all over the world when things go bad politicians blame the foreigners they always blame to far as they have different skin and different languages different religion different food they smell bad food smells bad Everybody Loves to blame the forests and thats whats happening now china is the most prominent of the farmers and the most successful so were blaming the foreigners i mean it is a total absurdity if you ask me we should be working together to bring prosperity to everybody but thats why im not a politician i guess. That engender so many responses for me but i cant do it on this program im going to go to you you know. Jim really puts it really very squarely i think here i mean for 1st of all the u. S. And many of its allies are not coming through this pandemic very well we would show that they were unprepared and particularly in the United States and in the end this is not to attack any particular politician thats not my point here i point is is that the globalization reveals what globalization has done for the chinese to globalization and build an economy in the United States in the in the western world created financial ation be financial ization of the economy very different approaches to globalization overall one player makes stuff in exports so that people want and the other one well displacement funny money all the time and this is something that no one really wants to talk about in the west because it is not to do they would benefit actually its very much to their serious disadvantage. Thank you and 1st time jim thanks for not wearing a bow tie i thought i was going to be on but to bow tie actually not ask and be the odd guy out clearly what weve seen is a massive change over the last 20 years i grew up right outside of when wash a nice a as a boy and i remember when china was not. Much different than north korea was for us today it was a forbidden by so my mom telling me you know each appease the chinese children are starving well i want to measure them too long because i didnt want to hear them but you fast forward to 40 years and china has risen up as mouse said and 949 s. And the gate of a campus where the chinese citizens of stood up and clearly they have more people have risen up out of poverty over the last 40 years than the United States has a speech. So when jim talks about it as its not a politician ive kind of ebb and flow and government and private and nonprofit world. Blame has always been a part of americans playbook and certainly blaming people as he pointed out the difference that us as what we need to do in my a summation is change the paradigm around and when people start pointing the finger at other people the American People have to ask how does blame help that hasnt restore there for a while and how does it help get them back to work and if you think youre just going to decouple from china and thats the end of the game i think you got another thing coming when given the same would be a couple of years living its very important i think the understand the need your response i mean we saw the supply chains particularly in the medical sector in the United States wanting roughly one thing in many ways been decoupling well there is a decoupling going on but its not being really reported there or at all in the media this Asian Countries are really need to decouple from the United States not from china ok and that is something that is a trend that is growing before this pandemic that was going on now we will see people will look at the data comes out but you know this mantra of you know we have cut ourselves off from him in the form from china it went you know that again is. Well politicians knocking on of their sleeves and thats what i told them to meet but you know i dont see who want to be the titans of business are going to be leaving china anytime soon because well thats where they make money ok so i mean this will end up being a 00 issue or an internal issue 19 states because out there were years of. Investing in the Chinese Market i dont see a problem and i dont see them coming back anytime soon unless you want to start now one is the news we go ahead. Peter trade wars have never worked for anybody nobody has ever want to trade world where theres t. Coupling our tariffs are you any way you want to put it mr trump either doesnt know history or well he actually thinks hes smarter than history he doesnt care about history he has it in his brain and his friends around him all think the trade wars are good and that bashing the chinese i mean various people in the Republican Party have made it very clear dish selection is going to be run on bash in china and thats what theyre of out doing they look around and say we how were going to win this election the easy way is to i think is to bash china is it good for america no of course not we should all be trading together you know america by its a lot from china china buys a lot from america the chinese are ahead of us in some technology but were ahead and others we should be working together the idea that were going to decouple and say to the chinese we want trade with you how does that help america how does that help anybody how does that help china maybe a few more americans will get a job for a while but there are 325000000 americans who are all going to have to pay much higher prices for everything so we want to start buying our shirts from illinois i dont think so theyll be more expensive than they probably wont be as good. Then you would think that these jobs are coming back to the United States i mean that would be the political rhetoric but what you will see is automation and the robots back in the American Factory charlie are going to say. And surgical gowns and other medical quip and kind of be in order or im sure i dont think the rouge plant the Ford Motor Company that i worked my way through college in here in detroit is going to come back and theres going to be 100000 people with strong backs and not much think because your job is to tighten that not going to happen if those jobs do come back in our search coming back to automation to robots and not those 3540. 00 an hour high. Low skilled jobs here in the United States are exactly right but even if well maybe if they come back with robots yes but normally americas not a cheap place official place to do business to manufacture the products will be much higher price than they would be if theyre made somewhere i mean this is economics which is going around for a 1000 years we all know that such as comparative advantage and thats the way the world works sure we can all buy expensive forwards again that breakdown for our not to do that i would for americas do the things that you know good and let the chinese and other people do the things theyre good at you know the time to be the timing of this is quite. Bizarre because you know you have well we dont know all the details because we dont have all the Economic Data yet but i mean i think its very very to say that the u. S. Economy is in deep recession right now its not depressed depending on i guess a Great Depression i think is this is clearly i am not an american because we dont have those numbers yet but i mean it looks like its moving in that direction. And so we the powers that be it leaves the good part of they want to go on this you know new cold war with china when the u. S. Economy is on its back you know these people have any common sense i guess thats a rhetorical im going to is i think its going to go ahead and i think its really a 6 month strategy and this is until november 3rd i think is election day strategy this is and i watched it here in michigan a very pointed out this china has always made it the bogeyman certainly one of the action time comes up and certainly in the industrial midwest here in the state of michigan which has seen a lot of its manufacturing days and keep in mind that in this election its really going to be a few states that are combat it is going to be a wisconsin then and michigan and pennsylvania which earlier point you there and so let me assure you the Bumper Sticker shipped jobs to china is going to resonate a whole lot more than anybody giving economic theory or geopolitical theories about ways i think that we should engage with china my hope is that its only a 6 month strategy and either because the American People make a different choice and hence we have different policies on or shirt after the election theres going to have to be some sort of hit because the path were on right now seems mutually destructive and in my estimation you know tom appear to be sure to understand that what what sit there is not election in america in november and everything is consumed by that election they dont care about you are me or my kids or toms kids they care about winning that election no matter what it takes when i get it here why do i care to try to get that ruining the country from my kid theyre already you from me theyre running from me because its a political issue tom theyre willing to go down this the bruin is they seem to make some kind of a low point. It is. It is and its frightening to me i mean what i would have loved to have seeing is this pandemic start up and you know right after we signed the quote phase one trade deal with china which to me was more transactional than transformative but what i would have lost to a scene with real leadership is rather than plan c. Small game were going in country has to be down for the other one to be up. Imagine if rather than where the pats were on it if she didnt thing and donald trump but its not all the world together lets find a way to address this pandemic this Health Care Crisis in the economic tsunami that its on leaks imagine if we were sitting down not trying to find a 0 sum game of politics that is i think its tip oneill said all politics are local and youre seeing this nationalism politics play out not only in the United States but also was shaky and china because its all very counterproductive gentlemen or im going to jump in here we go to a short break im out of the Natural Bridge well continue our discussion on the new cold war going strong states are. Part of something is better than 100 percent of nothing and so losing money is part of the Money Laundering model as a model of Business Model and we look at these unicorns the startups and Silicon Valley like the ones you managed and we work the way fair goober if we were left there all losing money exponentially so many after the asters well maybe the model is to lose money and so who is laundering the money who is laundering the money. Problem drugs dont always come from unscrupulous dealers but from pharmacies to every state in the United States weve seen a very sharp increase in the number of people seeking treatment for addiction to prescription opioids it invaded america under the banner of medicine persisted with the pain but instead of trying to. When im off though she just goes after dose after dose after those and really became his drug dealer so whos to blame patients doctors manufacturers or the government. Or. Well the map across not where all things are considered im here about to remind you were discussing china. Ok when we go back there in german singapore its kind of pradhan out the discussion here lets ask let me ask some very simple questions number one is china a military threat to the United States. Not at the moment how i dont think america has enough Nuclear Bombs they could blow up every city in china if they had to so i doubt seriously if in 2020 china is a military threat to the us your might be someday but not today were not time that know thats one of the things thats being you know thats one of the solutions to the problem which you make is just so counterproductive in comparison and especially on the 1st of the program we have you know we have the meeting arms control official of the United States saying that if necessary we can we can spend them into oblivion i mean if you think that this is just mind boggling here i mean oh i agree the United States and china are competitors they may be adversary ok it has certainly not a of a reason if you are not contemplating military action because it seems to me that military action is at the very end of the spectrum if you feel definitely threatened were nowhere close to that right now but it seems thats one of the 1st positions they jump to is how can we tarry do what the chinese. Now theres really been economic bombs that have been dropped and as jim is pointed out this is all about a 6 month strategy for the next to the next 6 months although everything about election you know remember after 911 toby keith the Country Music singer you know courtesy of the red white and blow it up in your ass its the american way we tend to. Default to that and that lame strategy again going to war with a 2nd heart just World Economy going to war with 161. Of the worlds humanity seems absolutely ludicrous to me but it may be just enough to get enough votes to keep a particular person in power for 4 more years one of the things that you know being doesnt have to worry about isnt what hes a president leader for life. You know i want to ask you what is the threat i mean i know. I well i know you you know i have to say mass i dont see a threat i mean it literally trying to surrounded by military bases that china is surrounded by a myriad of alliances that the United States is involved in that is gets very complicated could get out of control one mistake and we could have august like the 4th you know and thats why i think that you know these alliances create more security threats than they leave the 8 ok but that may be a topic for another another program here but you know one of the things i find very fascinating being a trained historian want to address this the both of you is that weird assist him to discount from it seems to me is that you know for the western domination even when gemini of the world is it is about a 500 year times 5 years and and what a lot of people fail to remember they dont leave they doing these colonizers they dont go out looking. For free gold or silver they went out and proselytize they want to bring christianity in the world at the very end at the very basis that say its a missionary messianic impetus here well to. The west is largely christian ok but that if this is still there then we must we must bring our values to others because we know better they jumped and its such a mind it is almost impossible to confront because it is a it has a messianic religious tenets to it and look out the the treatment of china is in the present china must be brought to heel do you feel ok i mean look this deconstruct back to language ok i mean its very oriental this view of the rest of the world go ahead to the middle east has experienced the last steps and lets point out. Well mornings i think to look at is the something where connect is that you know i remember my 1st trip to china and 89 walking down a building on a bun and shanghai and seeing a map of the world from a chinese perspective because up until that point every map of the globe i saw United States was dead center of my i had to rub my eyes i bought one of those maps to remind me that not everybody sees the world from our own perspective tremendous eyeopener for me as a young guy in his thirtys my 1st trip to china that happened or inside i would tenements where im so i think that we need to take a broader view the world and understand some of that history that that you were talking about it or feel when you did it every every every country does this the french did its a spanish did you you said before we were going to save the world from christianity the russians did it the russians are going to save the world from mr marx i mean nobody will know what is a marxist anymore they all want to be rich but you know this is the way human beings have worked for thousands of years we are better than they are and they should do what we say well i mean museum i mean maybe have Nuclear Weapons maybe thats got the difference im saying you know what im what im saying this is a lousy and im and my viewers not understand so im still with jim on this when youre i mean you get closer to home as americans this is this american exceptionalism that im talking about and even questioning that you know youre been thrown out of the church as it were ok you cant you cant say that well you actually shouldnt say it because american exceptionalism has its practice now and has been practiced for decades it is against the National Interest of the country and various people its people are right in. Again you know when you vote your letter focusing only once a fair game here but when that elections over and it was endemic has been stamped out look at the records left behind and you want to start a trade war with china i mean wow what thats right here great ideas is the use of doing. America is exceptional where the largest debtor nation in the history of the world the debts of skyrocketing every day i mean we were but 2 months ago 6 months ago our debts for copper has and the last month or 2 theyve added another few trillion trillion with a t. To the american debt yeah thats exceptionalism no way to get in her district her. You guys got into this situation has gotten out without a probably didnt use the crisis where you want to if you want to add to it you want to have it you want the adversary the new enemy to buy your t. Bills so you can pay your debt and i think i mean yeah make up ok even if they want you to buy the debt but youre the enemy ok thats an exceptional interesting situation go ahead tom you want to jump in im going absolutely i mean thats a thats a point that i was going to make is that whos going to buy our debt that we continue to rack up a lot of this you to me and never President Trump in a master of as is getting the American People to cheat chase the next over what we should be really doing in america is looking more and addition and multiplication as opposed to division and traction and what i mean by that is we need to begin to invest in the American People when i go to china and use we chat i dont have to touch her and say i can we chat anything and everything when i can get on a bullet train and go from beijing to shanghai which used to be a center or in our train trip and now i can do in a few hours china has begun to sebastian we need is investing in education and infrastructure. And workforce training and retraining so that as the kids that are now 30 years old work in a factory those jobs are not going to be there in the future and theyre not going to pay a livable wage you know whats wrong and chill america begins to quit pointing to the other guy and begins to invest in the American People in the American Economy were going to continue to have this this false choice in front and its very sad in trouble they didnt think jim you know going to be again really even reading the Mainstream Press where there are not a lot very many intelligent people you know that the pentagon needs more money for its you know to finish the pivot to asia you know its always welfare for the military Industrial Complex but not is always going on here you know in this. Conflict so in this sphere right now its whos going to be best in r. And d. And thats that is this is this is well defined this adversarial conflict and now its almost nobody in washington seems to get it ok well unfortunately the next story is going to be you know on the internet or with with electronics yes somebodys got some troops are going to have to go and explain you know whoever wins but know that the generals fight the last war happening throughout history the next story is going to be electronic and unfortunately for us as americans that china turns out Something Like 10 or 20 times as many engineers every year as we do in america a lot of the my bad engineers im sure but some of them are very good you heard of ali baba youve heard of by doing your part of you know 10 cent i mean some of those engineers a good and some of them are sitting in your are just figuring out how to ruin america. When you hit it we can add to that tom a lot of the engineers in the general produced in the United States are foreign born i just would like to point that out to its true you have a player theres a good cartoon that goes out that says americans always want to see a market strong in math and science and then they showed a picture and the picture shows American Children indian and chinese descent theyre performing very well in those areas and that is exactly the the point is that china doesnt have to get it right for all of its people with 1. 51. 6000000000 people they dont have to get it right for all they say get it right or sum up in education is really going to be the future so you have an American University likely today. Is a future president a later. One of the message that those individuals are hearing and seeing what kind of relationships are they dont. Between the most important bilateral relationship in the world today when you think about it every major world issue. Its going to intersect at the corner of beijing and washington d. C. So how our respective leaders whether its our current leaders or future dealing with these issues are going to impact the china of people of the United States and for that matter all of humanity thats why the stakes are so bloody ah. Let me let me give you the last 20 seconds here because unfortunately you know the way of the west the u. S. Is constructed as every 4 years but thomas absolutely right its the horizons bunch of 20 seconds go ahead my daughter just came back from china every 5th grader in china spends one hour per day on coding i live in singapore we dont even do coding and staying up for much less than iowa why now would per day for 10 year olds i think that is the best way to end this program because it shows the difference the earth and whos creating a buyable future and who is not ok i want to thank my guests in the norvelt and in singapore and i want to thank our viewers for watching us your r. T. C. Next time remember. Every single culture on earth has prohibitions against care. At the same time virtually every culture of the earth will reward you enormously if he was killed the right person one stating it is the most horrendous down rushing single match in the world and in the other setting his little one thing that they will give you a medal for their people who both through because of that the people will meet with you because youre good at it to bring that sort of say. Idea. Give me too much me to cope with this time we said. Just that. Theres not one time im old but im also the most companies you know so ive been a good who says you to please not emotional when i meet with. Those companies he most people and most people you know he goes from didnt you know just to see hes just put you through i called. Someone number in the head of the notion that you see him a little you i dont know you kind of these people will. Look at is the. Thing they do in the medical but i dont tell you in this to you know money so to you in. A moment. This is the one business show you cant afford to miss in washington. The e. C. B. Is forecasting a major hit to the euro zone economy due to the cope at night outbreak and this comes as the European Union is eyeing a major stimulus package to save the regions economy and a bit coronavirus continues to pound brazil as the latin american giant is now the new epicenter of the virus we break down the toll the disease is taking there and around the globe and later. Too