To discuss this and more im joined by my guest to me bob in moscow he is a political analyst and editor at interest me internet media project and in london we crossed alexander material he is a writer on Legal Affairs as well as editor in chief of the direct com are telling us up rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciate it ok lets 1st go to alexander mackerras in london i suppose its been long coming the murmurings have been out there but it is taking this pandemic for an all out at least media arms into china. And of course its also played into the election cycle in the United States and i mean literally looking at the latest the media and there you will be all of this on one hand not completely surprised because while somebody said blame for this pandemic which of course is the subject for many other programs however in looking at the criticism are people there with low octane thinking in my. Well 1st and foremost mike ok your the secretary of state which International Intelligence agency you do not agree with is assessed and but again we dont know. What i find really remarkable or a remarkable opening on how you want to approach this what is the strategy because i dont see what go ahead and i think there is there is no strategy what has happened is exactly as you say the spinners on to bali and under the surface of the americans all that 62. 00 wars charge now which has been building up through the very long time china has become increasingly rich has become increasingly powerful its economy by many measures has now supastar to the United States the 1st time thats happened to the United States since the 870 s. When apes across britain is becoming head of the United States and there is a areas of technology and its political influence has been growing so its not surprising that this is creating problems for people in the United States especially given the overall reigning sense of importance the United States gives theory it sells so its also tries and has been bubbling up for a long long time on this sort of seeding of animus or hostility towards china has but what is happens is that when this pandemic all of this is 1st so this this in an extraordinary hangry adding temperate way and you see the media the political establishment theyre all for you know shouting suddenly asked china but they have no real plan they have they sort of militarized their approaches had sat talking wildly about cutting economic lakes but theyre not really coming up with anything that remotely constitutes a plaid possibly because a plan is not to be found. Exactly you know david we have all this in many of our viewers too isnt this the reemergence of china because thats how they define and its not been you know be a rising power its the re emerging china after 150 years of humiliation primarily at the hands of the west including russia. And now just when they get up to the top of their game suddenly the only person the United States that have made a lot of money investing in china a lot of money they brought all the jobs there china didnt steal one job from the United States the jobs were taken away from the United States and factories were shuttered but it is you know how exactly curious is already alluded to is there we talk theres even talk of a military response it seems to me that this is a 20th century mindset maybe even a 19th century mindset because the real front tier of competition is research and development and that is one area that china has pushed very hard for and that is giving them the cutting edge when you talk military youre speaking from weakness thats my opinion because it shows you dont have a strategy china is already been surrounded by american bases it is already being. Being contained in many ways particularly in a military way so i think that the tool box is empty or are they just dont know how to solve their own temper tantrum about what is going on particularly when the Economic Situation primarily in the United States is very unclear as the pandemic abates go ahead. Well youre right yes sir that if your minds are normal range of a century or the 19th century it means reminds more than darkest ages or the way jacks entry of course what happens is basically it was accusing biden or being a cheneys agent and by then is accused of drawing board being a russian agent doesnt it remind your something doesnt of you mind you or the worst year thought the story to union in the soviet union at least you know understudy and there was just one group that was demonized at the time now we have 2 groups demonised at the time you know in the United States and what made me a laugh especially at michael r. With tears in my eyes was basically an article you know that when dick madison buy an apple ball when sure all that their wallet is all off in the trunk and she wants the world to be serious about trumps all she wants your card to basically. If you want your real current economic ties to china well that would be real lunacy because what we have now is rhetorical willesee and their real current economic ties with china would be a real hoot but we know how that works sure you can will need external months you have this paranoia you know why that is a chinese agent trump is a russian agent and then you have very bad quansah grants in the case of russia this is there are no wrongs arms control in the case of china is there no International Trade ok maybe you know alex it is but this is a good Movie Theater isnt it i mean cutting ties to china i mean anyone that has 2 brain cells to rub together knows you cant do that decoupling is not really an option i mean if that is going to be the option if there is some kind of united front behind it which i. Can see the bad air her happening after 40 years of a couple linked. You know it would be the end of the reaction there too because here is that this is a good book eater because its talking about something that is a realist you cannot cut these ties because International Trade would collapse more than it has already and and that again this kind of defaults to a military option which of course is ridiculous on its face i mean what are they going to do building the u. S. Going to do build more Aircraft Carriers you know how easy this is the same berman thinks 100000. 00 missile and you can take out a multibillion dollar Aircraft Carrier again where is the thinking here or as i think we probably all agreed there isnt much thinking here this is just a kneejerk response its not just a kneejerk response and unrealistic it is fantastic and hes dangerous it is a cent tast Economic Data that you can count all china from the World Economy china is a set by many metrics now the biggest the biggest industrial is the worlds biggest but trading endurable goods the idea that you can simply cut all that all around the World Economy steam all has it as you know as if that could just be done it is just as a set completely childish is it again coming back to what you said a proper 20th century its the mindset in the 1960 s. When the soviet union did operate within its own economic world and the United States operate in its own economic world and there was very little overlap between the 2 zaxxon yes you could say you could draw up the cons of various and you could work on all those kind of lines with china is that possible and even contemplate the other direction of a arms race with China Building at carriers child. Thank you can just to base now the United States has a bill because Shipbuilding Industries in the United States dont get it what it was thought is that they must be clear what how did they get how did the u. S. And china find themselves in a situation that the chinese somehow made the United States destroy its own Industrial Base for 6 do so i mean of course it has been this rhetorical we could keep going you know it it and i think what happened was back in the 98790. 00 s. American companies decided that it would make much more sense for their profits of late to come their factories in china where costs production costs went up and to close them in the United States when they were much higher and of course that was at an american decision it was not ultimately a chinese one the chinese could not take americas Industrial Base from the United States it needed americans to make that decision and i can very well remember back in the 1990 s. All kinds of people many of the same people were talking now about china vetoed stating americas ideas probably factories they were they were praying about it they were saying you know we dont really need to put your child there is our competitor because we run mostly this economy because most of self produce there are american theyre american and so of course that has proved completely wrong in many ways because of course the chinese demand that their every color meet in their own fashion but its ridiculous to blame the United States for americas mistakes but the mckinsey view of the world here and now everybody likes these things here but you know theyre relatively cheap because theyre made in china not in the United States ok thats up to the mail its almost initials up here. Lets listen lets pose the most obvious question here in your mind is china a threat to the United States you know what i used the word threat you can define the word or however you wish him. Well china is lot of threat to the United States because cheney is are acting responsibly and they invested a lot of line you know that American Security is and they have x. Generationally then i could state their government that is the real threat for the next states because i have as we have seen with a score. At the dam in this state now has enormous power this power of the state in all the world now is much bigger than the power of the soviet union or its citizens i mean we have seen that the state going to local state can isolate you from Public Transportation this state can shut down all Small Businesses for weeks sometimes months so when you say its impossible to cut all china well unfortunately you do support civil and thats why it is so dangerous and thats why i do all day so important because if if there is an economic war against china it will be it will not be a war we can American Economy interest it will be i you all would get down the rope and you know it made it up the just go in if one of you what about American Consumers thats the reason why this all happened because americans zoomers like she stuck out in rigorous last 15 seconds here china needs to be punished what is that range of heat in your mind it sounds very colonial to me go here shes a great 88 shes completely can learn to answer your previous question china is no threat to the United States there are never mean to trees frets to think you know extent its certainly not from china and china recent starting wars all over the place as well now but gentlemen we have to go to our breaking out about heart break well continue our discussion on some real news day with our. Thats good theres a Survival Guide book stay single malt to start simply. Be sure you dont get it back. Next year. Repatriations to look at the rest a 7 yr. Old to separate the treasury for. Half and finding another one of the highest dimmock on the way to go through the food. Bank itself mukti about. Closing this weve got to talk so hard not to think im going to dissipate this the work that i want and i dont miss the mark and if. This is the only thing that we do is music because everybody fights his way. Through a who comes from the fiftys who found his focus would be a whole movie about a look at the. What i think is this is the fans that is what comes. Through. Welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered about remind you were discussing some real news. Ok lets go to change gears here over the last we have been getting murmurings for the last couple of weeks but its finally happen the United States is deciding to withdraw from the open skies agreement a lot of people may have not heard about this is a very important builder of arms control that we saw negotiated the end of the last century we can talk about i know we can talk about the new start agreement that is. To be a ballot in the beginning of next year so talk about open skies and couch it in the importance of arms control something that were really were losing to the detriment of the entire world. Well basically the open skies agreement was signed by russia and its western partners i think 3534 countries in general it was signed in 1902 and by him didnt start or reagan until 2000 to. Him alone of course it would be very useful for the west because they would basically morning then military action in chechnya and in general of course russia is more vulnerable to open skies agreement you know because we rely on our our own territory to defend our country we dont have bases next to the United States on next door but again show a nurse or a c. In western europe so basically what happened was there there are these agreements unit everyone including Ukraine Ukraine is against the United States even that agreement because then they wont be able to fly or were there you know the russian. Military units in in western russia not blame game here i mean we didnt really need to stress or abuse this is like what we call a confidence Building Measure correct absolute you know and this is something that not all of the people understand the information that you get from these flights it is available to everyone you have to share it with all because it been seen they dream and then that camera sat sealed by inspectors here theyre controlled by inspect the in the country around you where they are making your morning for and why. So its a quantum building met measure and the reasons which trump and theyre all provided are ludicrous you know they said that russia does not allow lives or were its a region in cali in grad formally east prussia and all of them or with georgia well the last time the United States had this wide was march in march this year they u. S. Planes and nato planes. You all were running aground morning during their miters situation there with the border with georgia will remember saakashvili attacked russian peacekeepers in 2008 and so say that you know there was a real war there might be even even with this you know this problem was negotiate all this is not something that just russians see George SchultzWilliam Perry former u. S. Defense secretary and sam nunn they wrote several articles arguing for the present nation of the riemann and they all 3 of them said all 3 of them wrote that this problem was negotiated with russia it could be a sort. But or visit trumpet there are hellbound on destroying all of the arms control so i unfortunately you know the e. U. Says that theyre against it but we know from the experience with the eye and there that the e. U. May. Object in the beginning and them dont really know and the. President broke germany in the beginning and then there was a can communicate to Foreign Ministers obey your subordinate them arrogant as if im not in there im afraid the same story make up until that opens. You know alex and i am i playing this off very tragic but again all very predictable john bolton isnt in the white house but bolton is and remains when what is this mantra to dismantle all arms control because. All of us are more or less the same age on this channel i mean these were all harold is as well as breakthroughs and going down the path of nonproliferation these these were milestones need these were celebrated and now as time passes and bit cold war rivalry of the 20th century is moving further and further in the past people dont understand that nonpolitical issues if it is important now as it ever was what how do you explain i think one of the recent is happening is because the United States has become increasingly up in secure about its and military position and as a result its lashing out and one of the ways its lashing out shes going strong mean these treaties can i say the open sky st he was 1st proposed but the United States in the 19 fifties and then the i. M. F. Treaty that we will respect that is based on proposals made by wrong break in the 1980 s. The a. B. M. Treaty that was scrapped was based on proposals made by the United States in the 1960 s. So. All of these traces initially the United States and because of that the United States solar itself has been rivalry with the soviet union even on tickets and build confidence when the soviet union had those confidence Building Measures to militarily turn vine and the basis for ending the cold that was that. Indispensable foundation that foundation is being destroyed and their full weight come moving back into a situation where International Tensions already and weve already talked about the possibility of when you cope well with china in the 1st segment of all progress this is very dangerous and is most alarming thing to me of all is all of this is happening and western public seems to be completely oblivious to it so well and the western legacy media writing on discussing will do it is not smart and because i mean i know they are exactly quite right these treaties were celebrates it i know that they scratched and its as if nobody cares this is easy credit be dangerous it is incredibly dangerous they think it is more he needs to be dangerous in my opinion than the Climate Change issues that we hear so much about because. These this weight down all owns control is the kind of thing that could lead to a spiraling of International Tensions as we have not seen since then and that was the whole purpose of having them exactly as a party or a demon if i find it really quite remarkable that the lead in arms negotiator be United States i think its billings lean much if im pronouncing the persons name correctly it is said and last few days that they dont want to have an arms race but if necessary we will outspend the chinese and the russians i mean what kind of lunacy is this ok i mean here we have a gloat we have a certainly a global recession maybe a depression here the debt devons are being blown all over the place particularly in the United States and they have achieved arms control ago and let me repeat that the arms control negotiations person who wouldnt want to have arms. Drops saying that you know we could outspend the chinese and the russians again rhetoric from the 1960 s. And 1970 s. And even in the eightys there and let me add to that let me just add that isnt there are voices in the American Administration im talking about and in the Nuclear Test Ban i mean when i read that i my job at the floor i mean whats the why i mean one of the theres a global consensus that you do that you dont do that or very rarely and then you would have to explain why and now thats being thrown absolute weve already mentioned the entire a ray of arms control it existed at the beginning of this century there are holes completely gone then you can get your head around that more or testing go ahead jim. Well there is some merry way of battle or behind it all the latin states are sticks to the agreement when technologically it is and want to just want them to stick to the remains so as alexander rightly said. You know the 1960 s. Then i just days didnt have a b. M. Acknowledge it and im a mystic nice oust prepacked them so they suggested these a. B. M. Treaty which opened war the soviet union and theyre like the states do or you know this balance or fear right and they scrapped it then 2001 when it appears new technology will protect the United States from markram espouse wrong russia star wars to yes or same story now one of the reasons why the orbital skies agreement is been scrambled the United States is because they have a new Satellite Technology so they dont need pleats do to control russia. They dont care about quantum since they dont care about krissy cross city so there is this is a very dangerous leuchter i only stick to the agreements that if you know what you can hear a good mind to just do me and the same story where there they say year by drum that the United States can raise you on Nuclear Testing for the 1st time since 1900 to. Me remind you that the organ skies agreement was signed in 1902 right after the end or the cold war. When the orders guys agreement was negotiated nor one would imagine that cutting the grass region would be an actual act that it would be surrounded by to qantas unfortunately all too the course though russia paul and the lithuania at the time used to a new and was still a part of the soviet union when open skies were so these people they asked. Well something that is didnt know what to play by us with them and they completely it is really got history if you forget what happened just 2 or 3 years ago you know when they say you know what is this has russia during ukraine they described 300 at least 300 actually crawl on 100 years of history this is the same story with that open skies and kind of you know grab they just forget what what what was there just do it when youre out there and you dont speak yet the man they just simply dont know because they dont take any effort in trying to make here is you know we have one minute left here one of the day that this is an opportunity ok that is being lost we have. The west is ratcheting up tensions with china now it was an arms control regime was one thing that you know you would always be 2 sides adversaries would come together and because it was their Mutual Benefit this is the time to bring china and you start in you know pushing ratcheting down these tensions but theyre doing obviously the exact opposite go ahead and get what they need i mean this idea that you can somehow id spend the chinese and the russians both at the same time and do so on mass producing presumably incredibly dangerous weapons which will lead the way also undermine the whole concept of Nuclear Nonproliferation the Nuclear Nonproliferation treaty its the major powers who would you. Know increase the you know the later after that but over time weve had to have a gentleman here i want to meet with many thanks to my guest in london and here in moscow and i think our viewers are watching us here at r. G. P. So you next time remember. Who. Leg. Length. No shots. Actually. Struck. Just. Switch your thirst for action. 54 jets and more than 1300 military personnel are headed to heal some air force base in alaska where is that to say come on ill show you whats the reason for any type of enhanced u. S. Military presence in this area russia. What is it suddenly about the South China Sea that makes it so that it 11000000000 barrels of oil. Take a look at this map who really owns what kind of says no it belongs to us india says no we claim that that belongs to us both of these countries have Nuclear Weapons capabilities there is reason for concern so thats why were going to drill down on the story for you today right here on the news with rick sanchez where you know as we always like to say we do believe by golly its time to do news again. And then on you know. Because he and i missed. Them and one of. The 100. 00 freestyle and. You know he had it not so for the moment and of course on any of us want to not going to have to have been but i mean thats a big part of that speech to the topic he said